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Should MMOs remove the death penalty?

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  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by supertouchme
    no

    Yes. Or put this in options. To me is enough of "penalty" corpse run as sometimes this can be pretty annyoing and far. As for "thrill" again pretty silly discussion .... I will always do anything I can to survive, even if death is imminent I will usually at least try to bring as much mobs as possible with me. Will not help even minimally having more harsh penalty. More likely will stop to play such game.

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    I'll be honest, with how much of a joke death penalties are today in most mmorpg's they might as well be removed since they are mostly a minor annoyence if nothing else. Worse death penaltiy I have seen in a game I played was in a korean mmorpg called redmoon, at higher levels you need 3-4 billion exp to level, and you earn this at about 200k exp per kill, you can 1 shot stuff.  Now say your at 3.8 billion of 4 billion exp needed to level.. You die somehow, you'll most likely drop some or most of your shit, but the real pain? you lose HALF of the current exp you have earned, so in that death you just lost 1.6 billion exp. The item loss can sometimes be alot worse than the exp too, cuz anyone can loot whatever you dropped.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    OP I will point out in the most honest way possible why it makes no sense to you: you're looking at it wrong. "So I died...I lose 25% xp...how am I supposed to kill anything". whoa whoa whoa. you started at death ? let's back up another 3 minutes. you're alive. you're seeing a pack of wolves. Do you engage ? it's an important question because you might die and lose 25% xp and run into the problem you stated. why should you fight them? what are the odds you'll win? what are the risks? do you know these wolves well? are you risking it ? is it worth it ? if no death penalty...run in, die, respawn, kill survivors. Booooooring

     You mean you don't do that anyway, regardless if there is a penalty or not?

    we dont. you know we don't.

    Hell, I only play cause fighting wolves is fun. What other point should there be? Not winning is punishment enough, isn't it? What if I don't get a rush from a high death penalty? What if its merely an inconvenience?

    I think death should be an inconvenience.

     

    I am looking at the statement i jsut wrote and i'm not sure how to describe it any more clearly. Perhaps a reference to "the curse of immortality" is in order...but how can one appreciate life if it's permanent ? we don't care a whole lot for the air we breathe other than "huh, we should stop polluting it. I'm going to do nothing about it". Yet if we'd wear an astronaut suit every time we step outside we'd perceive it as important.

     

    the inconvenience of death is in the interest of preservation of life.

     

    it's hard to encourage something you already have without resorting to adversity of alternatives.

     

    can't like living unless you dislike dying. if you don't care about dying, you don't care about living.

     

    As I wrote in an eve topic once...

     

    you're in high-sec. a capsule appears next to you on a gate. Probably a pilot grabbing a ship. good for him. Moving on.

    you're in low/null-sec. a capsule appears next to you on a gate. Is he someone who, like me, 5 minutes ago had a ship? is he a scout? a spy? he has insta-warp, he can follow me anywhere. Maybe he's the warp-in. Maybe he's bait. I can kill him in one shot but would take so long to lock him his friends can drop on me. I BETTER GET AWAY FROM HIM.

     

    note, above is a capsule. no weapons and no way to do damage. yet the sense of preservation of life instantly kicks in. because it'd suck to die to a retard-magnet capsule.

    +1 Bring back death penalties, i loved Everquest 1 death penalties, made you realy appreciate living death didnt happ[en very often in that game because people would try and live. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bm_fOFyAhA

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
    Brilliant!! please, allow me to go further and sugest to remove death!! death in a mmorpg is lame and a  inconvenience and  should be removed asap. everybody win !!

    Unfortuenlty inconviences are the key to making games fun, maybe you will see this aswell when they remove all the inconviences from games. Those who played pre WoW games know this well and even Vanila WoW player compared to new WoW players.

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member
    Best way of DP is one day xp loss and all your gear and items drop so someone else can take it.
  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Permadeath is not fun, but there should always be a penalty for rushing in blindly into a fight and getting killed. Experience loss was one of the best things about EQ1 because it actually matters where you went and how you went about things. Nowadays a death costs you 10 seconds to time. The entire thought process is gone from staying alive because there isn't a real penalty.

    The many players who play D3 hard core would disagree.

    Personally it is not fun for me, so i don't play hard core mode. But obviously there are those who find it fun.

    Nothing gives you a bigger rush than having a character almsot die in hardcore mode or any game with permadeath even somewhat hard death penalty like EQ1 having to retreive your loot, Nowadays its like o look i have to spend 30 seconds running back and spend a couple copper from the previous mob i killed to repair.

  • SkuzSkuz WorcesterPosts: 1,034Member Uncommon

    The sweetness of victory cannot exist without an adversity to overcome.

     

    Remove the death-penalty & you remove a painful but necessary element of the many things which lead to a sense of accomplishment, blandness would ensue without it.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Vesavius
    I honestly had to check to see if this was a necroed thread from '04...

     

    Necro'd threads are immediately locked and you get a stern warning from the MMORPG staff.

     


    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    That's right, and you talked to the cleric and got to know the cleric, you made friends with people and you needed to learn how to trust people...

     

    The best friends are made under harsh conditions, be it if you're sick, prison, war, natural disasters, just listen to stories of people, the harsher the condition the more you need to trust other people and bond with them, it's the same in MMO. You can no longer play with anyone if there's a death penalty in the game, you need to open up and talk to other people and find out who you can trust.

     


     

    Truer words were never spoken. Yes, exactly.

    The WoW generation is grown up and posting here. Good for them as they are gamers, too. Lots of games available for them. Enjoy with my blessing. For the millions of gamers like me, there isn't anything to play. We want difficult puzzles to solve and adversity to overcome. We want primary gameplay to require teamwork. We are used to soloing (in single player games). The idea of an MMO that doesn't require teamwork seems odd and contradictory to us. Ours isn't a niche market; it is a market and it isn't being served.

    +1, its true the market we seek isnt realy being served it is large enough but not the majority. However there are how many games aimed at the majority 10+ now devide the majority between those games it less than the minority so idealy it would be ideal for a game compaint to aim for this unconsted game territoty they could pull in more player than that could aiming for the majority due to the overflooded market for that.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siveria
    I'll be honest, with how much of a joke death penalties are today in most mmorpg's they might as well be removed since they are mostly a minor annoyence if nothing else. Worse death penaltiy I have seen in a game I played was in a korean mmorpg called redmoon, at higher levels you need 3-4 billion exp to level, and you earn this at about 200k exp per kill, you can 1 shot stuff.  Now say your at 3.8 billion of 4 billion exp needed to level.. You die somehow, you'll most likely drop some or most of your shit, but the real pain? you lose HALF of the current exp you have earned, so in that death you just lost 1.6 billion exp. The item loss can sometimes be alot worse than the exp too, cuz anyone can loot whatever you dropped.

    Khm, and that was FUN? Then obviously we are looking in games for very very different kind of fun.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by Siveria
    I'll be honest, with how much of a joke death penalties are today in most mmorpg's they might as well be removed since they are mostly a minor annoyence if nothing else. Worse death penaltiy I have seen in a game I played was in a korean mmorpg called redmoon, at higher levels you need 3-4 billion exp to level, and you earn this at about 200k exp per kill, you can 1 shot stuff.  Now say your at 3.8 billion of 4 billion exp needed to level.. You die somehow, you'll most likely drop some or most of your shit, but the real pain? you lose HALF of the current exp you have earned, so in that death you just lost 1.6 billion exp. The item loss can sometimes be alot worse than the exp too, cuz anyone can loot whatever you dropped.

    Khm, and that was FUN? Then obviously we are looking in games for very very different kind of fun.

    +1

    A game where you drop your gear when you die for everyone to loot means that your gear cant be very valueable, or be much of a big hassle to replace.

    I prefer item focussed games. Like working for months at your new weapon or armor. Thats what I prefer to do.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Not read the entire thread but i need to say this.

     

     

    NO

     

    Infact modern mmos have dumbed down the death penalty too much, they need to start bringing in bigger penalties for dying.. After all getting killed should be a bad thing.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Adamantine
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by Siveria
    I'll be honest, with how much of a joke death penalties are today in most mmorpg's they might as well be removed since they are mostly a minor annoyence if nothing else. Worse death penaltiy I have seen in a game I played was in a korean mmorpg called redmoon, at higher levels you need 3-4 billion exp to level, and you earn this at about 200k exp per kill, you can 1 shot stuff.  Now say your at 3.8 billion of 4 billion exp needed to level.. You die somehow, you'll most likely drop some or most of your shit, but the real pain? you lose HALF of the current exp you have earned, so in that death you just lost 1.6 billion exp. The item loss can sometimes be alot worse than the exp too, cuz anyone can loot whatever you dropped.

    Khm, and that was FUN? Then obviously we are looking in games for very very different kind of fun.

    +1

    A game where you drop your gear when you die for everyone to loot means that your gear cant be very valueable, or be much of a big hassle to replace.

    I prefer item focussed games. Like working for months at your new weapon or armor. Thats what I prefer to do.

    Everquest had my favorite death system, when u died u dropped everything u had on you (On pvp servers i beleive the person who Pks you could loot the coins on you (you can bank you money)  and i think one item in your inventory not equiped). any you lost some XP (dont beleive u lost XP on pvp death) however some classes had rezzes that returned a % of your XP you lost so wasnt to much of a big deal because it was overly difficult to find somone to do that quite often for free if you bring it to them and if u were nice you could give them a tip which happened regulary due to a good community.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Skuz

    The sweetness of victory cannot exist without an adversity to overcome.

     

    Remove the death-penalty & you remove a painful but necessary element of the many things which lead to a sense of accomplishment, blandness would ensue without it.

    A difficult boss is an adversity.

    Death penalty is not.

    You overcome a boss. Death penalty, you merely avoid.

  • xxtriadxxxxtriadxx TherePosts: 134Member Uncommon

    No..

    The lack of risk is hurting MMO's alot..you should care if you die in an MMO.

     

     

     

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member

    Death should only give a penalty to XP.

    With no max XP limit.

    Delevelling possible.

    0 absolute minimum

    Rez from other player = 5% more penalty than respawn

    ---------------------

    What I really want from that: Teach players not to die so they stop ruining my gaming experience because they suck too much to make us succeed. Make them care.

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • infiniti70infiniti70 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 61Member
    Originally posted by WillyMMORPG

    In Everquest 1, way back when, the death penalty was brutal. You'd lose a considerable amount of experience and could actually de-level, thus losing level based spells and level restricted gear.

     

    A friend of mine got adventurous and went to an EQ1 zone right after leveling because he was a wizard and got the portal spell to travel their automatically. Because EQ1 devs were sadistic bastages, that zone had pockets of high level mobs mixed in with the more level appropriate monsters. This friend was out exploring the zone and ran into an island populated with spectres who were twice the level of the rest of the monsters in that zone (36ish compared to 16-18 normal mobs -- it was that Oasis area near Freeport in case you were wondering).

     

    Well, long story not-so-short -- my friend died horribly, one shotted by a nasty group of spectres and (of course) was bound in Qeynos on the other side of the continent. He also de-leveled from 16 to 15, thereby making his level 16 portal spell to the Oasis no longer available. Oh, and in EQ1, your items remained on your body at point of death, so he was looking at walking through about 6-8 zones, "naked" to get back to Oasis, because in those days, you couldn't find someone willing to port a level 15 character, who was broke, out of the goodness of their heart.

     

    Luckily, some actual kind soul in Oasis, who was a cleric resurrected my friend back to his body, he was able to loot his stuff, but had to remain in the area for an hour or so killing level appropriate stuff to get his level (and spells) back. Guess what? He never again got curious about new zones without first getting a couple bubbles of experience buffer.

     

    Just an awesome story!

    As many have said, MMOs are just to easy nowadays. I do not want to say harsh, but a death penalty should at least make a player stop and think, "how can I prevent that from happing again"?

     

     

     

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 688Member Uncommon

    I loved EQ's dealth penalty system.  It was painful enough that you never wanted to die (instead of simply killing yourself to travel faster), but didn't give you a debuff.  So you could immediatly get back in the action.

    The combination of corpse runs & xp loss made it really painful to die, and I miss it sooo much.  Right now I never feel in danger for my life in ANY mmo.  And even if god forbid I did die (which almost never happens) the death penalties are so lax that I just laugh and move on.

  • infiniti70infiniti70 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 61Member

    Out of all the games in developemnet (that I am familiar with), Trials of Ascension  has the right idea imo. A character should have an end, it is what measures achievement. 100 deaths = perma death. Too many players feel hitting max level is an aceivement, when without perma death, hitting max level is just a sum of time.

    The fear of losing progression is a little silly. In most MMOs it is a race through content, just to sit around and complain about lack of endgame.  With perma death, a player can strive to achieve as much as possible with a finite resource.

    Take away need to level and insert the need to stay alive, and suddenly a game is filled with immersion, community, and a n exciting virtual world to play around in.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by xxtriadxx

    No..

    The lack of risk is hurting MMO's alot..you should care if you die in an MMO.

     

     

     

    People do care about wipes in MMOs. You miss all the drama, rage-quit, and name-calling?

    You don't need much death penalty for people to care.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by Vesavius I honestly had to check to see if this was a necroed thread from '04...
      Necro'd threads are immediately locked and you get a stern warning from the MMORPG staff.
     

    ok thanks buddy! With me being a new comer around here that was a valuable insight...

    You missed the point in what I was saying I think.


    Hehe no I got your point. Just took the opportunity to promulgate that fantastic MMORPG policy.

    Was thinking today about great friends who helped me 14 years ago. I remember them and the times clearly. Friendship bonds were strong because you needed one another for a res or to find your corpse/gear. I grew, personally, from bonding with people from different cultures. Today, no one needs anyone; it's one big circle-jerk, wack-a-mole game with no consequences for anything. Doesn't matter if you never see the same person twice as their effect on your gameplay is trivial at best.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Originally posted by Arclan

    Originally posted by Vesavius I honestly had to check to see if this was a necroed thread from '04...
      Necro'd threads are immediately locked and you get a stern warning from the MMORPG staff.
     

     

    ok thanks buddy! With me being a new comer around here that was a valuable insight...

    You missed the point in what I was saying I think.


     

    Hehe no I got your point. Just took the opportunity to promulgate that fantastic MMORPG policy.

    Was thinking today about great friends who helped me 14 years ago. I remember them and the times clearly. Friendship bonds were strong because you needed one another for a res or to find your corpse/gear. I grew, personally, from bonding with people from different cultures. Today, no one needs anyone; it's one big circle-jerk, wack-a-mole game with no consequences for anything. Doesn't matter if you never see the same person twice as their effect on your gameplay is trivial at best.

    It is sad that you need some game mechanics to help you make friends.

    Shouldn't you be able to make friends just by chatting up people in guild chat? I don't play games to make friends. I can do that else where.

  • CorthalaCorthala LagosPosts: 283Member Uncommon

    I used to defend death penalty but after playing Spellborn(R.I.P.) I changed my mind: WHy not a system like Spellborn in wihich players are rewarded for staying alive? Unless is perm-death most death penelty are just time sink.

    I Haven't played one single MMo that used and improve Spellborn Idiea: You get better bonus as you fight and survive.

    "you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"

    One of those great lines from The Secret World

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Corthala

    I used to defend death penalty but after playing Spellborn(R.I.P.) I changed my mind: WHy not a system like Spellborn in wihich players are rewarded for staying alive? Unless is perm-death most death penelty are just time sink.

    I Haven't played one single MMo that used and improve Spellborn Idiea: You get better bonus as you fight and survive.

    I mean it's the mechanic that made people addicted to Rock Band. More reward for continued success, you mess up, start all over again.

    a yo ho ho

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    I thought the death penalty got binned years ago.  Now days you come back as a superman.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Games already don't have a death penalty. If you call taking 20 seconds to run back from a graveyard or something like that a death penalty, there is no hope for you.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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