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your giving him the money after all he done to warhammer online?

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  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Satarious

    The point is, Mark Jacobs was largely responsible and influential in Dark Age of Camelot which I consider a great success.  That alone should earn him respect and a second chance.

     The pointis, Mark Jacobs was the Lead Designer of DaoC which also had enough glaring mistakes that it was the first MMO to have 10s of thousands of players do sit in PROTESTS over treatment...he bastardized Hibernia for over a YEAR and it took how long for that realm to start seeing life again after the mass exodus? and on top of it created a PvP envoirment that allowed a group of 3 people to roll over two dozen. Ask anyone that ever ran with a Sklad. RvR was so freaking imbalanced that dozens of PvE nerf hammers couldnt fix it...oh and lets not forget the wonderful command that locks onto an enmey target so you auto-follow them...RvR turned PvP into a carebear fest which is why people who started with DaoC cant handle PvP games that dont allow mindless zergs and mass CCing.

    That would be the reason why good ol' Jacobs cant get any backing with real money. Much like Koster, the industry knows his flaws and no one wants him at the head of a game.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member
    Yeah, Mark Jacobs was lead designer of Warhammer online. Warhammer online was a generic copy of WoW with a Warhammer theme wrapped around it. He was lead designer, it was his mess and his hype. EA probably had a hand in it, but that doesn't mean you can excuse Mark Jacobs of failure and hyping.
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member


    Originally posted by Betakodo
    Yeah, Mark Jacobs was lead designer of Warhammer online. Warhammer online was a generic copy of WoW with a Warhammer theme wrapped around it. He was lead designer, it was his mess and his hype. EA probably had a hand in it, but that doesn't mean you can excuse Mark Jacobs of failure and hyping.

    He was also the Lead Designer on DAoC. Should probably take that into account before you burn him at the stake for Warhammer.

    Balance and moderation in all things, bro.

    Swings and roundabouts, and stuff like that?

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member

    Everyone talks about Warhammer like it was the worst game ever. It wasn't.

    Warhammer Online - like DAoC - had great PvP. It was brilliant. Camelot Unchained is a PvP game. If Warhammer Online and DAoC are indicative of the PvP experience we will be getting in Camelot Unchained, then Camelot Unchained will no doubt be a great PvP game.

  • EaderbrecaEaderbreca MMORPG.com Streamer LPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    He was also the Lead Designer on DAoC. Should probably take that into account before you burn him at the stake for Warhammer.

    Balance and moderation in all things, bro.

    Swings and roundabouts, and stuff like that?

     

    This. Just for Dark Age of Camelot it's to be taken seriously. The fact Warhammer "failed" is probably even a good thing; you have a man of experience who learned from past experiences; not just living into dream i-want-to-make-an-mmo lala land.

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  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    He was also the Lead Designer on DAoC. Should probably take that into account before you burn him at the stake for Warhammer.

    Balance and moderation in all things, bro.

    Swings and roundabouts, and stuff like that?

    Track records should mean something, but realistically if they're not making an expansion or close copy it seems like it's meaning less. His previous success should have meant Warhammer would have been good. It wasn't. Ragnarok 1 ->2, Guild Wars 1->2, Final Fantasy XI->XIV (And later Final fantasies). Just because they made good games before, doesn't mean they will again when try something new. Warhammer fell on it's face after release. I'm guessing you're English? I have no idea what swings and roundabouts are supposed to refer to.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeqJFPH7jWE

    Old hype video, fast foreward to around 3 mins.

    More hyping, seem familiar?

    http://www.youtube.com/user/EA/videos?query=warhammer

    Warhammer was terrible. The first time I heard a developer say "Polish" was from this guy. Now I know what polish means in developer talk.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member

    I bought the CE for WAR too. I actually enjoyed it for quite a while too. Sadly whenever they claimed to balance a class they just made the game that much worse. I still consider going back to it from time to time but I believe the game is too far gone unless they implement a B2P/F2P system.

    As for the best pvp. DAOC was good but I still prefer original UO and even SB. I do hope CU is a success though because MOBA and FPS just arent the same.

  • Father_JackFather_Jack Portland, ORPosts: 81Member

    I loved WAR, it might have had its problems but I had a ton of fun playing it. It allowed me to level several characters almost exclusivley off RvR and that is what I like. So creating a new game where I can level exclusively off RvR is perfect for me.

    People say they want inovation but they don't want any failures, inovation is ussually the result of a lot of failures. I don't see how you can have one without the other. Fear of failing forces people to play it safe and make clones of things that already work. You see this across the creative arts, look at TV everyone is trying to come out with the LOST, when they should be trying to be the First "__________" fill in the blank.

  • alakoalako BurnleyPosts: 6Member
    Originally posted by archeageking

    i purchased warhammer online colelctor's edition day 1 and it sucked, How th ehell are you guys going to get duped into giving jacob more money to scam you with this game? havent you learned your lesson from warhammer online?

    I would be shocked if he can get a successful kickstarter after warhammer online. Seriously did you want to let him scam the gamers even more?

     

    Shame people never really read up on the games more, it wasn't his choice, rest of the company wanted to sell off a large portion of DAoC, while he didn't really want to, he went with the flow, same with warhammer, which he knows he regrets lol.

     

    which is why he's doing camelot unchained and sticking to what the people want rather than companies trying to copy others. lol

     

  • sk8chalifsk8chalif Montreal, QCPosts: 599Member Uncommon
     You said that like he was the only one working on the game lol....

    image
    ~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by archeageking

    i purchased warhammer online colelctor's edition day 1 and it sucked, How th ehell are you guys going to get duped into giving jacob more money to scam you with this game? havent you learned your lesson from warhammer online?

    I would be shocked if he can get a successful kickstarter after warhammer online. Seriously did you want to let him scam the gamers even more?

    I somehow wonder if some other game has you biased king of Archeage.

  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member

    Tying this guy jacobs to Warhammer is a cardinal sin, but tying him to DAOC is somehow ok?

     

    It's like a zoo exhibit, this. Stuff like this just doesn't happen in the wild anymore!

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon

    Sad thing is I feel Regnum Online is to DAoC what Path of Exile is to Diablo 2

    And Camelot Unchained will be to DAoC what Diablo 3 is to Diablo 2

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 416Member Uncommon
    So he's on a personal crusade to destroy games, and he never learns from his mistakes. Is that correct?
  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Hampshire, AZPosts: 514Member Uncommon

    Would I like a mmo as camelot unchained has been described?

    Hell yes.

    Would I trust Mark Jacobs to make that mmo as has been descibed?

    Hell no.

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • CyborWolfTKCyborWolfTK anywhere, AKPosts: 77Member

    Dispite not likeing warhammer one bit, I'm still going to supoort MJ and his team on CU.

     

    Why?

     

    Because he realizes what a lot of us old time DaoC vets want, knows the mistakes of both DaoC, War, and other titles,

    and is passionate about the project.

     

    Plus he will also fund this project if we do, which is putting his money where his mouth is.

     

    AS an aside, I seem to remember it was mostly that other guy who was hyping WAR so much. Forgot that dudes name,

    but if WAR was as good as that dude hyped it, I'd Still be playing it....

     

    :)

    /Wave Meddy I remember seeing you in Chooch's Movies LOL :) /salute

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by archeageking

    i purchased warhammer online colelctor's edition day 1 and it sucked, How th ehell are you guys going to get duped into giving jacob more money to scam you with this game? havent you learned your lesson from warhammer online?

    I would be shocked if he can get a successful kickstarter after warhammer online. Seriously did you want to let him scam the gamers even more?

    You said what I've been thinking for weeks.

    What you didn't mention is JACOBS distruction of DAOC with TOA and other decisions.

    How people could think for more than 5 seconds giving him money with his resume ? !!

     

    (you defenders of Jacobs..and WAR.If you had been in the WAR beta and experienced  how close minded that environment was...HECK they didn't even have keep warfare in the game.Beta players refused to test without that feature.Took  a 6 month shut down of beta  to put it in the game in a half @##ed way.)

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    You know what

    As disappointing as warhammer was.

    I played it 2 times longer than I played wow
    I played it 8 times longer than gw2, rift and tsw
    I played it 24 times longer than Aoc
    I played it 104 times longer than I played swtor

    And if EA hadn't milked the players with that shite "expansion" and bioware hadn't broke rvr with 1.4, I would probably have played it longer, as there was no credible mass pvp alternative.

    (i wouldn't play it now though as planetside 2 is available)
  • keitholikeitholi biddeford, MEPosts: 138Member

    Just to offer my own 2 cents:

     

    Yes, I fully plan to throw my money at Mark. I plan to throw as much as I possibly can in fact and drag as many friends along for the ride as well. Just to point out a few holes in your logic, one man does not an MMORPG make. Mark was among a whole team of people working on WAR and while he was certainly one of the lead guys, I think they were ALL beholden to EA who essentially called all the shots when it came to rushing the unfinished product out before it was ready. You should direct your ire towards them instead.

     

    I will also note that the game itself was not terrible. I played for the first 3 months or so after beta and I would say server stability was the #1 reason my guild slowly trickled off till nobody was left. Spending 3 months and not even being able to do a city raid because the 3 fortresses prior to the city raid were bugged and could not all be capped at same time, at least on our server. 3 months of melting faces in pvp and never able to get legendary gear from city raid was the game breaker for me.

     

    After your first couple posts it was evident your simply here to throw grenades and run, not having much factual information at your disposal. You clearly need to get the basics down straight before coming here and blowing up about nothing. Your butthurt for buying the collectors edition, we get it. I still have 2 metal boxes myself, one still unopened for collecting purposes, one I opened to get the game keys and cool figurine miniature. 5 years later is not the time to come bitching about wanting your money back..

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Anyone that believes the lead designer has no say, little say or isnt in control is a delusional fanboy.

    EA will only push for a game to be released EARLY because of the cost and needing a return on sales to boost earnings or if it is not meeting up to expectations after release and remove those that royally failed with their project (see SWTOR).

    EA offices are ---> here

     

     

     

    Game developers offices are ---> here. This is where the work is being done, far away from EA to see...and if they tried to develop it way up ^^^^^ there the game would never get made.

    To the OP, hell no I wouldnt give him any money, not even before Warhammer thanks to the royal mess that was DaoC's crapfest RvR.

    if you think daoc rvr is bad you obv insane, thanks for popping in, please dont pop back this game isnt for you <3

     Cleary you never PvP'ed pre-DaoC thus you are a carebear PvPer. DaoC with its /stick, CCs and zergs created an army of piss poor PvPers with little skill. BTW, really loved the contstant nerf hammers for a year that resulted in an enter realm to hold in game protests on over a dozen servers for 3 months until something was finally done for them. GREAT GAME DESIGN!

    What was pre-DAOC pvp in an mmorpg? I never played Ashrons Call so I can't comment and UO was my favorite game of all time, but mind blast, poison, ebolt ebolt ebolt doesn't take a genius. I was a dread lord and after that a perma-red, most of the time and although exciting, it was attack, run, pot, attack, run pot. If not it was 3 of us vs 1. Now we didn't have all the great quik bars, and you had to keep you bag open and be fast to double click that trapped pouch when frozen, but it wasn't hands down a pvp experience that was light years greater than DAOC.

    I do agree though, stick was lame, but CC hads its roll and if you couldn't counter it than tough for the player.

    im not going to even argue with people that think pre daoc pvp was the best, they obv know beter than me obv

     Clearly. DaoC the first MMORPG to have entire realms have sit in protests due to PvP...lol. I bet you played a Sklad or was part of a 3 man team stopping a group of 2+ dozen people from Hibernia and gloating about how leet you were so choose to ignore how piss poor the game design was.

    Most people won't admit they where Hibs ....that's a first step for recovery

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    You know whatAs disappointing as warhammer was.I played it 2 times longer than I played wowI played it 8 times longer than gw2, rift and tswI played it 24 times longer than AocI played it 104 times longer than I played swtorAnd if EA hadn't milked the players with that shite "expansion" and bioware hadn't broke rvr with 1.4, I would probably have played it longer, as there was no credible mass pvp alternative.(i wouldn't play it now though as planetside 2 is available)

    Yea my number would be about the same as yours, except wow, played the shit out of that in classic. Planetside 2 though... probably like warhammer while i put a decent amount of time into into them both, however neither lived upto my expectations, a lesson learned, no game will give that same feeling we first felt from daoc or PS1 or whatever else again. the times are different, the community is different and the games are going to have to be different to, if they're not then we should just go back and play the originals...but then there's probably good reasons why we don't play the originals...

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • collektcollekt Meridian, MSPosts: 273Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    Originally posted by archeageking
    i purchased warhammer online colelctor's edition day 1 and it sucked, How th ehell are you guys going to get duped into giving jacob more money to scam you with this game? havent you learned your lesson from warhammer online? I would be shocked if he can get a successful kickstarter after warhammer online. Seriously did you want to let him scam the gamers even more?

    You said what I've been thinking for weeks.

    What you didn't mention is JACOBS distruction of DAOC with TOA and other decisions.

    How people could think for more than 5 seconds giving him money with his resume ? !!

     

    (you defenders of Jacobs..and WAR.If you had been in the WAR beta and experienced  how close minded that environment was...HECK they didn't even have keep warfare in the game.Beta players refused to test without that feature.Took  a 6 month shut down of beta  to put it in the game in a half @##ed way.)

     

    While some of the bad decisions in his past were, I'm sure, entirely his own.. you have to also take in to account that he wasn't the only person making calls on these games. He had big publishers breathing down his neck, forcing his hand, etc. This is one of the reasons he's going the Kickstarter route this time, so that all of the decisions can be entirely his own. People need to get over their grudges and see how the game turns out before condemning him.
  • JacobinJacobin Toronto, ONPosts: 697Member Uncommon

    You realize that if MJ wanted to dupe the players and just make a bunch of money he could very easily call the game DAOC 2 and go back to the big publishers with the promise of creating another cash cow.

    Instead he is trying to design the game he wants, free from the big corporate influence who are mainly interested in huge sub numbers.

    He will also be putting his own money into the game.

    OP its not your responsibility to police how people want to spend their money. Perhaps people are willing to take more risks than yourself. Even if we are disapointed, its not like people who throw money at a KS are breaking their bank accounts.

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    I don't think Mark is so out of touch that I wouldn't give him another shot. If I remember, he was against the changes to DAoC in ToA, but was basically outvoted. Then when Mythic was bought by EA, well we know how well that goes. Honestly, the only spin I really remember from Mark was the bit on how cutting out a bunch of cities and most of the crafting at the last minute was a good thing, but he didn't even look like he had convinced himself.

    Mark wasn't the only decision maker, but at the same time, I am looking at this new game with caution. I'm not entirely sure I like the concept well enough to support the game. I'll have to do a bit more research into it.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    The single easiest thing we can predict right up front about CU (should it ever get up and running):

    These guys will continue to wander in, from time to time, forever.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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