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So much hate

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  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by sxvs

    i found it confusing, can someone just tell me what he plans to do about solo play? yes, i know many people are against solo play in an mmo but i like to play solo alot in an mmo, it's my thing.

    is there going to be any viable options for the more solo player who doesn't want to conform to guilds to be able to enjoy the game and have fun?

    i really dislike guild play, raids, etc.

    maybe it's just my luck but i always end up with elitests or immature people or people who treat games like jobs, etc.

    CU will not be for you, sorry i hate to not have more interested but the game is going to be far from solo friendly, it will be about group PvP on a large scale with keep sieges. Sure there will be guys who run around solo, and sure some might be sucessful, but that will not be how the game is designed (as far as i can tell from current knowledge).

    GW2 is a great game for those who prefer solo gameplay with a social aspect.

    thats incorrect MJ wants to try and get a balance of all peoples playstyles within a RVR communtiy. Hes asking us for feedback on all of this so its best you follow it yourself rather than listern to each persons indivual perspective of whats been said. Chinese whispers never works xx

    I would love to see how one would cater to a "solo" gameplay in an PvP/RvR game with almost zero PvE in it. Sure crafting can be considered as a "solo" experience, but thats really not what players are looking for in a solo MMORPG (which in itself is an oxymoron). 

    I hope that Mark does not even consider catering to the solo mentality, it just does not jibe well with the type of gameplay Mark has described so far.

    Not "cater" but "incorporate" the solo gameplay.

    Not "Mentality" but "Choice"

    I had toons in DAoC that I used explicity to group and others that I used to solo, for PvE as well as RvR.  Both were valid and the game allowed for those playstyles to be successful.  Soloing in RvR came with an accepted risk, but that made it even more exciting.  Grouping in RvR was what the majority did, but there certainly was a time and place for a clever stealther, mincer, or any other well played class by a player who didn't want to follow the zerg.

    "Catering to the solo mentality" just invokes the tired Us vs Them that has been hashed out ad nauseum for years.  Time to get over it and realise the world isn't made of one type of person and their clones.

    image
  • TadderTadder Naples, FLPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by colddog04

    I honestly am seeing too much LOVE for a game that is essentially still in the idea stage. Cool ideas and all, but will they be implemented in a way that is actually enjoyable? 

     

    An RvR-only MMORPG style game will likely be extremely difficult to pull off. We've seen many issues with RvR in the past in games like WAR, GW2 and PS2. I personally didn't even think that the DAoC version of it was all that great. It was too lopsided in my opinion and I feel like some factions were having way more fun than other factions. 

     

    And I'm very leery of kickstarter in general. Paying money for an idea that could potentially be executed well enough to be worth it seems like poor decision making. In this case it will likely be because people trust that Mark Jacobs can bring this thing to fruition in a responsible, well executed manner. But to be honest, how long has it been since he's done anything really great? Warhammer was the last game he was lead design on and before that it was DAoC.

     

    Skeptical for many reasons? Yeah. But I don't think that's really hate. 

    I agree with you on most points except I loved DAoC RvR.I'm not gonna invest any emotion into something that right now is just bullet points in a possible design document and nothing more.I'd want to see at least some proof of concept demos before investing any interest let alone money into this.

    There is skepticism/ questions, poeple asking the same question again and again without reading the forums, and then ad hominem attacks. I would put the later into hate, with the first 2 just an average forum monday.

    I'll agree that I and others have been probably more excited by this concept than likely an announcement on another standard MMO would garner, but as somebody said up above, the magical words of sandbox and RvR were mentioned. Can this be abused? Sure, but that's like anything that you feel strongly about.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    Maybe some are just upset that the game is not catering to the casual pve crowd so they have to hate on it ? I don't know. I am sure many will have some reservations from the start but I don't think it is really hate.

    ^Pretty Much^

    Those people need to realise MJ isn't targeting them for his game, he's targeting RvR minded players. If you want your hand held and given lollipops and ice cream for playing, this probably isn't the game for you.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by sxvs

    i found it confusing, can someone just tell me what he plans to do about solo play? yes, i know many people are against solo play in an mmo but i like to play solo alot in an mmo, it's my thing.

    is there going to be any viable options for the more solo player who doesn't want to conform to guilds to be able to enjoy the game and have fun?

    i really dislike guild play, raids, etc.

    maybe it's just my luck but i always end up with elitests or immature people or people who treat games like jobs, etc.

    CU will not be for you, sorry i hate to not have more interested but the game is going to be far from solo friendly, it will be about group PvP on a large scale with keep sieges. Sure there will be guys who run around solo, and sure some might be sucessful, but that will not be how the game is designed (as far as i can tell from current knowledge).

    GW2 is a great game for those who prefer solo gameplay with a social aspect.

    thats incorrect MJ wants to try and get a balance of all peoples playstyles within a RVR communtiy. Hes asking us for feedback on all of this so its best you follow it yourself rather than listern to each persons indivual perspective of whats been said. Chinese whispers never works xx

    I would love to see how one would cater to a "solo" gameplay in an PvP/RvR game with almost zero PvE in it. Sure crafting can be considered as a "solo" experience, but thats really not what players are looking for in a solo MMORPG (which in itself is an oxymoron). 

    I hope that Mark does not even consider catering to the solo mentality, it just does not jibe well with the type of gameplay Mark has described so far.

    Not "cater" but "incorporate" the solo gameplay.

    Not "Mentality" but "Choice"

    I had toons in DAoC that I used explicity to group and others that I used to solo, for PvE as well as RvR.  Both were valid and the game allowed for those playstyles to be successful.  Soloing in RvR came with an accepted risk, but that made it even more exciting.  Grouping in RvR was what the majority did, but there certainly was a time and place for a clever stealther, mincer, or any other well played class by a player who didn't want to follow the zerg.

    "Catering to the solo mentality" just invokes the tired Us vs Them that has been hashed out ad nauseum for years.  Time to get over it and realise the world isn't made of one type of person and their clones.

    well said, I played classic as a zerg realm with myth.. when ywain came out i went 8v8 with my friends and when i had kids i also soloed.. i think this should be considered within this game but toon balance shouldnt be based on a 1v1 style

  • EcocesEcoces Chicago, ILPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Mark has used all the right words to capture the MMORPG Hipster communities hearts. especially when he came out with that "no handholding" dev diary. you could almost hear all 50 of them (or maybe that number is too high) saying ... well first "hold on mom ill clean up my room in a minute im 35 years old for god sake im read an important blog!" and then ....

     

    "he's totally right MMO worlds suck because they try to be fun and be a game instead of a slow lumbering world, i remember the days when it took me 3-4 minutes to kill a mob and then 30 minutes to get my health back so i can attack another mob. or when it took me 15 minutes to wait for a boat ... those were the good ole days!"

     

    "now MMOs are nothing but fun, people can just log in for an hour and accomplish something .... thats stupid game design!"

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by freston
    Deciding to discard wholly a project based simply in the involvement of a single person is too hasty, imo.

     Unless that one single person is in charge of the project and has proven in the past his ideas are not good ones, or cannot impliment good ideas in a way that works.

    Sorry but its true and the world has axioms going back thousands of years all about it...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...this guy is trying for a third time.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    There would be something seriously wrong with this game if it didn't have the mmorpg hate squad in it's forums posting reasons why this game is going to be bad.

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Ecoces

    Mark has used all the right words to capture the MMORPG Hipster communities hearts. especially when he came out with that "no handholding" dev diary. you could almost hear all 50 of them (or maybe that number is too high) saying ... well first "hold on mom ill clean up my room in a minute im 35 years old for god sake im read an important blog!" and then ....

     

    "he's totally right MMO worlds suck because they try to be fun and be a game instead of a slow lumbering world, i remember the days when it took me 3-4 minutes to kill a mob and then 30 minutes to get my health back so i can attack another mob. or when it took me 15 minutes to wait for a boat ... those were the good ole days!"

     

    "now MMOs are nothing but fun, people can just log in for an hour and accomplish something .... thats stupid game design!"

    your misunderstanidng the point. Games have grinds with zero point. Lets grind to 400 armour skill or whateva wow is only to have a new update mean you need to grind to 450? MJ wants to make a PURE rvr game the only grind is to make you better at your role.. its like daoc but no 0-50 and a more expansive ra system ( in leymans terms)

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by sxvs

    i found it confusing, can someone just tell me what he plans to do about solo play? yes, i know many people are against solo play in an mmo but i like to play solo alot in an mmo, it's my thing.

    is there going to be any viable options for the more solo player who doesn't want to conform to guilds to be able to enjoy the game and have fun?

    i really dislike guild play, raids, etc.

    maybe it's just my luck but i always end up with elitests or immature people or people who treat games like jobs, etc.

    CU will not be for you, sorry i hate to not have more interested but the game is going to be far from solo friendly, it will be about group PvP on a large scale with keep sieges. Sure there will be guys who run around solo, and sure some might be sucessful, but that will not be how the game is designed (as far as i can tell from current knowledge).

    GW2 is a great game for those who prefer solo gameplay with a social aspect.

    thats incorrect MJ wants to try and get a balance of all peoples playstyles within a RVR communtiy. Hes asking us for feedback on all of this so its best you follow it yourself rather than listern to each persons indivual perspective of whats been said. Chinese whispers never works xx

    I would love to see how one would cater to a "solo" gameplay in an PvP/RvR game with almost zero PvE in it. Sure crafting can be considered as a "solo" experience, but thats really not what players are looking for in a solo MMORPG (which in itself is an oxymoron). 

    I hope that Mark does not even consider catering to the solo mentality, it just does not jibe well with the type of gameplay Mark has described so far.

    Not "cater" but "incorporate" the solo gameplay.

    Not "Mentality" but "Choice"

    I had toons in DAoC that I used explicity to group and others that I used to solo, for PvE as well as RvR.  Both were valid and the game allowed for those playstyles to be successful.  Soloing in RvR came with an accepted risk, but that made it even more exciting.  Grouping in RvR was what the majority did, but there certainly was a time and place for a clever stealther, mincer, or any other well played class by a player who didn't want to follow the zerg.

    "Catering to the solo mentality" just invokes the tired Us vs Them that has been hashed out ad nauseum for years.  Time to get over it and realise the world isn't made of one type of person and their clones.

    well said, I played classic as a zerg realm with myth.. when ywain came out i went 8v8 with my friends and when i had kids i also soloed.. i think this should be considered within this game but toon balance shouldnt be based on a 1v1 style

    I think that if you decided to hit the hills and Darkness Falls solo, you went out with the understanding that your survivial 1v1 would require skill and thought and not necessarily be guaranteed.  Solo vs 2 or more opponents was possible, but you really needed to be on top of your game and was really only possible by a small handful of classes.  I advocate that the potential for a well played character to succeed 1v1 should remain.  Balance is a slippery beast and I don't think anyone anywhere has found perfection.  What tips the scale is player skill, and I think that someone with the knowledge of how to best someone (or multiples) should be able to be given that opportunity. 

    image
  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    There would be something seriously wrong with this game if it didn't have the mmorpg hate squad in it's forums posting reasons why this game is going to be bad.

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

    it is a bad rvr game though :P

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile

     

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

    i think you mean world of warcraft.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by sxvs

    i found it confusing, can someone just tell me what he plans to do about solo play? yes, i know many people are against solo play in an mmo but i like to play solo alot in an mmo, it's my thing.

    is there going to be any viable options for the more solo player who doesn't want to conform to guilds to be able to enjoy the game and have fun?

    i really dislike guild play, raids, etc.

    maybe it's just my luck but i always end up with elitests or immature people or people who treat games like jobs, etc.

    CU will not be for you, sorry i hate to not have more interested but the game is going to be far from solo friendly, it will be about group PvP on a large scale with keep sieges. Sure there will be guys who run around solo, and sure some might be sucessful, but that will not be how the game is designed (as far as i can tell from current knowledge).

    GW2 is a great game for those who prefer solo gameplay with a social aspect.

    thats incorrect MJ wants to try and get a balance of all peoples playstyles within a RVR communtiy. Hes asking us for feedback on all of this so its best you follow it yourself rather than listern to each persons indivual perspective of whats been said. Chinese whispers never works xx

    I would love to see how one would cater to a "solo" gameplay in an PvP/RvR game with almost zero PvE in it. Sure crafting can be considered as a "solo" experience, but thats really not what players are looking for in a solo MMORPG (which in itself is an oxymoron). 

    I hope that Mark does not even consider catering to the solo mentality, it just does not jibe well with the type of gameplay Mark has described so far.

    Not "cater" but "incorporate" the solo gameplay.

    Not "Mentality" but "Choice"

    I had toons in DAoC that I used explicity to group and others that I used to solo, for PvE as well as RvR.  Both were valid and the game allowed for those playstyles to be successful.  Soloing in RvR came with an accepted risk, but that made it even more exciting.  Grouping in RvR was what the majority did, but there certainly was a time and place for a clever stealther, mincer, or any other well played class by a player who didn't want to follow the zerg.

    "Catering to the solo mentality" just invokes the tired Us vs Them that has been hashed out ad nauseum for years.  Time to get over it and realise the world isn't made of one type of person and their clones.

    well said, I played classic as a zerg realm with myth.. when ywain came out i went 8v8 with my friends and when i had kids i also soloed.. i think this should be considered within this game but toon balance shouldnt be based on a 1v1 style

    I think that if you decided to hit the hills and Darkness Falls solo, you went out with the understanding that your survivial 1v1 would require skill and thought and not necessarily be guaranteed.  Solo vs 2 or more opponents was possible, but you really needed to be on top of your game and was really only possible by a small handful of classes.  I advocate that the potential for a well played character to succeed 1v1 should remain.  Balance is a slippery beast and I don't think anyone anywhere has found perfection.  What tips the scale is player skill, and I think that someone with the knowledge of how to best someone (or multiples) should be able to be given that opportunity. 

    agreed 

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by DamonVile

     

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

    i think you mean world of warcraft.

    On this site...gw2 is #1 and almost 10 million unique hits in the last year. WoW is # 7 at 1 mil. So no not even close.

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by DamonVile

     

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

    i think you mean world of warcraft.

    "on this site" , and he's right.

  • SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by DamonVile

     

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

    i think you mean world of warcraft.

    On this site...gw2 is #1 and almost 10 million unique hits in the last year. WoW is # 7 at 1 mil. So no not even close.

    It still confounds me how GW2 can have such a high rating on this site.  Not only does it have worse pve than WoW (the story in gw2 is dumb and the dialogue sounds like it's being read from a script), it has worse pvp than daoc and even WAR.  The RPG is non-existant since the whole thing is centered on the idea of E-Sports.  There is absolutely nothing fun or addicting about that game, and yet it still sits perched as the #1 rated game on mmorpg.  I don't get it.  I just chalk it up with those lame tween movies like "Twilight" that keep rollin' in the Benjamins no matter how piss poor the story/acting.

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    successfully derailed.
  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by DamonVile

     

    Just because there're here posting their normal BS like they do in every popular game doesn't mean you wont like it or they'll think ppl are unhappy.

    Look at gw2. Most hated on game on the site...also the most popular.

    i think you mean world of warcraft.

    On this site...gw2 is #1 and almost 10 million unique hits in the last year. WoW is # 7 at 1 mil. So no not even close.

    It still confounds me how GW2 can have such a high rating on this site.  Not only does it have worse pve than WoW (the story in gw2 is dumb and the dialogue sounds like it's being read from a script), it has worse pvp than daoc and even WAR.  The RPG is non-existant since the whole thing is centered on the idea of E-Sports.  There is absolutely nothing fun or addicting about that game, and yet it still sits perched as the #1 rated game on mmorpg.  I don't get it.  I just chalk it up with those lame tween movies like "Twilight" that keep rollin' in the Benjamins no matter how piss poor the story/acting.

    if they had focused on wvwvw and not esports it would of been a huge success but they tried to go for a niche that doesnt excist within mmos and failed badly, IMO

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    successfully derailed.

    na most ppl don't read to page 5. Someone will come alone and comment on the first post and that will be that :P

     

    but it is funny how gw2 is the new wow for haters. just say it in the thread and off it goes.

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    successfully derailed.

    na most ppl don't read to page 5. Someone will come alone and comment on the first post and that will be that :P

     

    but it is funny how gw2 is the new wow for haters. just say it in the thread and off it goes.

    it's funnier when each successive "i'm waiting for _____" now rebounder comes out imperfect and then they hop to the next. just like those games coming out from 2006-2008 after WoW.  

     

    DF:UW and PS2 down already.

  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Hampshire, AZPosts: 509Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    successfully derailed.

    na most ppl don't read to page 5. Someone will come alone and comment on the first post and that will be that :P

     

    but it is funny how gw2 is the new wow for haters. just say it in the thread and off it goes.

    Seeing as the first post is what the entire thread is about... That would make the person who does so the only one actually "on topic".

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • TadderTadder Naples, FLPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by freston
    Deciding to discard wholly a project based simply in the involvement of a single person is too hasty, imo.

     Unless that one single person is in charge of the project and has proven in the past his ideas are not good ones, or cannot impliment good ideas in a way that works.

    Sorry but its true and the world has axioms going back thousands of years all about it...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...this guy is trying for a third time.

    Inventors and entrepreuners will fail. That axiom is not really appropriate for how our society works with innovation. Around 50% of startups are not around by year 3. It's not like once you have a failed startup you become a janitor. I guarantee you those owners go and start other projects that become success stories. If Mark Jacobs had a track record like EA, with numerous failed MMOs and ruining established games, I'd agree with you. But in my eyes he is batting at least .500., .333 is still pretty good as well.

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Mythic, UO 15 years and counting,, DAOC 11 years and counting, WAR 5? years and counting.. not bad really is it?
  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    Any time u threaten the popular norm u will get a negative reaction from those who enjoy the norm. On top of that, im hard pressed to find a single forum on the net that isnt mostly negative. Realistically, angry people tell 5 friends, happy people tell maybe 1 so forums end up with more anger than love.

  • Storm_FirebladeStorm_Fireblade FlensburgPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by muffins89
     can we also stop calling this an mmo?  it's a moba.

    No, we cannot. Camelot Unchained is going to be a MMO, no matter how much you wan´t to disagree. Its just plain wrong, simple as that.

    Camelot Unchained Fanpage
    https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/

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