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Isn't this guy the same guy that hyped up Warhammer Online?

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Comments

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Mr. Jacobs, with all due respect...there's nothing to be gained from "setting the record straight".

    It cannot help.

    I must respctfully disagree.

     

    While I doubt Mark is going to sway MMOexposed away from his preconcieved notions, his setting the record straight here is futher helping to cement the suport of readers such as myself. So as I've said before, Mark, please keep talking.

     

    And to MMOExposed. I respect your opinion, but in this case I'm sorry to say I feel you're starting to sound like a child holding onto a grudge like its your favorite toy. If all we ever did was to sit around and dwell on what has happened in the past, there wouldn't be a future.

     

     

    Well all has been said and done.

    Mark must really think I am a amateur when it comes to exposing hype. But I said what needed to be said, and even Marks words added to my original point.

    See a lot of new accounts on this forum, and Mark has come out. At least he not shilling it like most developers do here, oh wait,,,

    but keep in mind people.

    History is studied for a reason. To prevent past mistakes, and learn from them.

    History show, that in the MMO genre, many developers/publishers over the years exploit consumers with massive hype brainwashing marketing tactics.

    Warhammer Online and GW2 were two of the biggest examples of this.

    like I pointed out, which even Mark admits, but in a politically corrected tone, he originally requested that the Warhammer Alliance public forum would BAN and BLOCK ANY NEGATIVE TALK about Warhammer Online.
    The Warhammer Alliance staff refused, so he pulled support of the forum.

    If you really wanted to improve the game, why would you want the criticism silenced? Because Warhammer as we know has much deserved criticism.  

    Seem like you were more out to cover your own ass with more box sells, than to actually continue improving a product to please your consumers.

    And here you are Mark, with your well thought-out words of hype.I read your comments, and I can see your clever tricks.
    I wont insult you for your clever use of words to hype the masses here, since most developers do the same.

    My words go more out to the consumers than the developers and publishers behind titles like this, to keep a straight mind when it comes to dealing with sellers like Mark, because they have only 1 goal in mind, even if they not a puppet under a larger corp. And they will sacrifice all else for that 1 goal.

    Look for the red flags, and perhaps learn from the past MMO marketing exploitations, and see past the blinders.

    Thats all I will say on this and leave it there.
    Mark you are clever, but hopefully the community here after my years of preaching to the choir here on this site about exposing hype, will see past your cleverness and do their own exposing from here on out.

     

    :-/

    image

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Mr. Jacobs, with all due respect...there's nothing to be gained from "setting the record straight".

    It cannot help.

    I must respctfully disagree.

     

    While I doubt Mark is going to sway MMOexposed away from his preconcieved notions, his setting the record straight here is futher helping to cement the suport of readers such as myself. So as I've said before, Mark, please keep talking.

     

    And to MMOExposed. I respect your opinion, but in this case I'm sorry to say I feel you're starting to sound like a child holding onto a grudge like its your favorite toy. If all we ever did was to sit around and dwell on what has happened in the past, there wouldn't be a future.

     

     

    Well all has been said and done.

    Mark must really think I am a amateur when it comes to exposing hype. But I said what needed to be said, and even Marks words added to my original point.

    See a lot of new accounts on this forum, and Mark has come out. At least he not shilling it like most developers do here, oh wait,,,

    but keep in mind people.

    History is studied for a reason. To prevent past mistakes, and learn from them.

    History show, that in the MMO genre, many developers/publishers over the years exploit consumers with massive hype brainwashing marketing tactics.

    Warhammer Online and GW2 were two of the biggest examples of this.

    like I pointed out, which even Mark admits, but in a politically corrected tone, he originally requested that the Warhammer Alliance public forum would BAN and BLOCK ANY NEGATIVE TALK about Warhammer Online.
    The Warhammer Alliance staff refused, so he pulled support of the forum.

    If you really wanted to improve the game, why would you want the criticism silenced? Because Warhammer as we know has much deserved criticism.  

    Seem like you were more out to cover your own ass with more box sells, than to actually continue improving a product to please your consumers.

    And here you are Mark, with your well thought-out words of hype.I read your comments, and I can see your clever tricks.
    I wont insult you for your clever use of words to hype the masses here, since most developers do the same.

    My words go more out to the consumers than the developers and publishers behind titles like this, to keep a straight mind when it comes to dealing with sellers like Mark, because they have only 1 goal in mind, even if they not a puppet under a larger corp. And they will sacrifice all else for that 1 goal.

    Look for the red flags, and perhaps learn from the past MMO marketing exploitations, and see past the blinders.

    Thats all I will say on this and leave it there.
    Mark you are clever, but hopefully the community here after my years of preaching to the choir here on this site about exposing hype, will see past your cleverness and do their own exposing from here on out.

     

    :-/

    all i read is a one sided opinion not willing to consider what he has already said in reply.

  • CryptorCryptor Coquitlam, BCPosts: 483Member Uncommon

    Paul Barnett sis the hype for Warhammer.  This is Mark Jacobs, the guy  that created Mythic (the company that made Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer).

    Warhammer suffered from EA rushing it out, though I still think it's a pretty good game :)

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cryptor

    Paul Barnett sis the hype for Warhammer.  This is Mark Jacobs, the guy  that created Mythic (the company that made Dark Age of Camelot and Warhammer).

    Warhammer suffered from EA rushing it out, though I still think it's a pretty good game :)

     

    I enjoyed my time in WAR, and would probably still be playing it if EA, Bioware, and Mythic had not decided to stop developing it.  If they would have kept adding to it, while fixing some of the problems, the story for WAR could have likely been different from the way it turned out.

    To be honest, Paul Barnett was the true hype machine for the game.  Granted, Mythic and Mark Jacobs let him do it, so they bear some of the responsibility.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • ironhelixironhelix fairfield, OHPosts: 448Member
    I am probably in the minority, but I didn't think that Warhammer Online was that bad. Sure, it had it's faults, and I didn't like where they went with it after launch, but I had a LOT of fun when it came out. If they can take to good from Warhammer, and build on DAoC, then I am on board.
  • NibsNibs .Posts: 216Member Uncommon

    Mark, please mate, PARAGRAPHS!

    My eyes are bleeding, man! How will I be able to play CU if your epic posts aren't broken up just a smidge? Please!

    Many thanks for all your constant posting over the past week. Most of us really do appreciate all the effort you're already putting in :)

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Mr. Jacobs, with all due respect...there's nothing to be gained from "setting the record straight".

    It cannot help.

    I must respctfully disagree.

     

    While I doubt Mark is going to sway MMOexposed away from his preconcieved notions, his setting the record straight here is futher helping to cement the suport of readers such as myself. So as I've said before, Mark, please keep talking.

     

    And to MMOExposed. I respect your opinion, but in this case I'm sorry to say I feel you're starting to sound like a child holding onto a grudge like its your favorite toy. If all we ever did was to sit around and dwell on what has happened in the past, there wouldn't be a future.

     

     

    Well all has been said and done.

    Mark must really think I am a amateur when it comes to exposing hype. But I said what needed to be said, and even Marks words added to my original point.

    See a lot of new accounts on this forum, and Mark has come out. At least he not shilling it like most developers do here, oh wait,,,

    but keep in mind people.

    History is studied for a reason. To prevent past mistakes, and learn from them.

    History show, that in the MMO genre, many developers/publishers over the years exploit consumers with massive hype brainwashing marketing tactics.

    Warhammer Online and GW2 were two of the biggest examples of this.

    like I pointed out, which even Mark admits, but in a politically corrected tone, he originally requested that the Warhammer Alliance public forum would BAN and BLOCK ANY NEGATIVE TALK about Warhammer Online.
    The Warhammer Alliance staff refused, so he pulled support of the forum.

    If you really wanted to improve the game, why would you want the criticism silenced? Because Warhammer as we know has much deserved criticism.  

    Seem like you were more out to cover your own ass with more box sells, than to actually continue improving a product to please your consumers.

    And here you are Mark, with your well thought-out words of hype.I read your comments, and I can see your clever tricks.
    I wont insult you for your clever use of words to hype the masses here, since most developers do the same.

    My words go more out to the consumers than the developers and publishers behind titles like this, to keep a straight mind when it comes to dealing with sellers like Mark, because they have only 1 goal in mind, even if they not a puppet under a larger corp. And they will sacrifice all else for that 1 goal.

    Look for the red flags, and perhaps learn from the past MMO marketing exploitations, and see past the blinders.

    Thats all I will say on this and leave it there.
    Mark you are clever, but hopefully the community here after my years of preaching to the choir here on this site about exposing hype, will see past your cleverness and do their own exposing from here on out.

     

    :-/

    Oh no, don't worry, we all pretty much think you're an amatuer when it comes to exposing hype, not just Mark. image

    Mark's done a pretty good job here explaining what went wrong with WAR, admitted to his mistakes, and has been pretty good about sharing his new vision, much more so than most development teams have done. (Looking at you COS team) image

    Sure, we'll keep an eye on him, but do recall, he's 1-1 in my book, so he's worth follfowing along for this next round.

    As for avoiding hype, always sound advice, and far too many people fall prey to it these days, not just for this title.

     

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Originally posted by Scilly

    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

    Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

    LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

    mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

    Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

     

     

    NPS MJ, your the only dev imo that has ever given so much info and explantion prior to a project going ahead. I also think your allowing people to troll you to much but i undertsand your reluctance to ignore them and actually answer them. This makes the people that care respect you more so Kudos to you sir /bow

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Well all has been said and done.

    Mark must really think I am a amateur when it comes to exposing hype. But I said what needed to be said, and even Marks words added to my original point.

    See a lot of new accounts on this forum, and Mark has come out. At least he not shilling it like most developers do here, oh wait,,,

    but keep in mind people.

    History is studied for a reason. To prevent past mistakes, and learn from them.

    History show, that in the MMO genre, many developers/publishers over the years exploit consumers with massive hype brainwashing marketing tactics.

    Warhammer Online and GW2 were two of the biggest examples of this.

    like I pointed out, which even Mark admits, but in a politically corrected tone, he originally requested that the Warhammer Alliance public forum would BAN and BLOCK ANY NEGATIVE TALK about Warhammer Online.
    The Warhammer Alliance staff refused, so he pulled support of the forum.

    If you really wanted to improve the game, why would you want the criticism silenced? Because Warhammer as we know has much deserved criticism.  

    Seem like you were more out to cover your own ass with more box sells, than to actually continue improving a product to please your consumers.

    And here you are Mark, with your well thought-out words of hype.I read your comments, and I can see your clever tricks.
    I wont insult you for your clever use of words to hype the masses here, since most developers do the same.

    My words go more out to the consumers than the developers and publishers behind titles like this, to keep a straight mind when it comes to dealing with sellers like Mark, because they have only 1 goal in mind, even if they not a puppet under a larger corp. And they will sacrifice all else for that 1 goal.

    Look for the red flags, and perhaps learn from the past MMO marketing exploitations, and see past the blinders.

    Thats all I will say on this and leave it there.
    Mark you are clever, but hopefully the community here after my years of preaching to the choir here on this site about exposing hype, will see past your cleverness and do their own exposing from here on out.

     

    :-/

    Umm please look in the mirror when spouting this tripe.

    I know you dearly want to come across as a person "in the know" when it pertains to MMOs, but all anyone has to do is read your posting history and see how caustic you can be towards games you don't agree with,

    But i am 100% in agreement with you in not coming back to comment anymore. We will see your cleverness exposed from here on out.

    Lolipops !

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member

    Whilst I don't mean to add fuel to the fire here, I would very much like to point something out anyway: Mark's behaviour and actions in the past very much have a role to play in people deciding whether to back this or not, if they wish to consider those things.

    As I've discussed with him in another thread, he's selling himself as much as he's selling the game. By selling himself, he's selling everything... including the past. If, for example, we are to take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation of DAoC, then we will also take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation and delivery of Warhammer Online. Part of the reason I brought up the "mythic seconds" affair was to see if he would bother to talk about it, and he did. He shared what seemed to me like a fairly honest opinion on the matter. It's up to others whether that impact their opinion on him.

    We also have to remember that DAoC is, for a lot of people, something that a handful of other people talk about. The millions of MMO fans now mostly consists of people that didn't and haven't played DAoC. Most of "us" remember Warhammer Online; they made a big enough deal out of it. We remember what happened in Warhammer Online quite specifically. We remember his role their, the rumours, the things that were done and not done, the promises that were made and broken, etc, etc, so on and so forth. Mark had a direct role in all that, the "lead" role in fact.

    And I think Mark knows all of that ;D I think he's here because he knows all of that. He wants to make a niche game for a specific type of gamer, but those people are also the people that feel slighted over Warhammer Online. He has to convince those people - the enthusiastis and fanboys - that he isn't likely to make the same mistakes again, because in the long term those are the people that are going to not only buy but also sell his game for him ;D

    I might be wrong.

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Originally posted by Scilly

    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

    Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

    LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

    mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

    Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

     

     

    NPS MJ, your the only dev imo that has ever given so much info and explantion prior to a project going ahead. I also think your allowing people to troll you to much but i undertsand your reluctance to ignore them and actually answer them. This makes the people that care respect you more so Kudos to you sir /bow

    Get a room, you two.

    10
  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    Whilst I don't mean to add fuel to the fire here, I would very much like to point something out anyway: Mark's behaviour and actions in the past very much have a role to play in people deciding whether to back this or not, if they wish to consider those things.

    As I've discussed with him in another thread, he's selling himself as much as he's selling the game. By selling himself, he's selling everything... including the past. If, for example, we are to take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation of DAoC, then we will also take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation and delivery of Warhammer Online. Part of the reason I brought up the "mythic seconds" affair was to see if he would bother to talk about it, and he did. He shared what seemed to me like a fairly honest opinion on the matter. It's up to others whether that impact their opinion on him.

    We also have to remember that DAoC is, for a lot of people, something that a handful of other people talk about. The millions of MMO fans now mostly consists of people that didn't and haven't played DAoC. Most of "us" remember Warhammer Online; they made a big enough deal out of it. We remember what happened in Warhammer Online quite specifically. We remember his role their, the rumours, the things that were done and not done, the promises that were made and broken, etc, etc, so on and so forth. Mark had a direct role in all that, the "lead" role in fact.

    And I think Mark knows all of that ;D I think he's here because he knows all of that. He wants to make a niche game for a specific type of gamer, but those people are also the people that feel slighted over Warhammer Online. He has to convince those people - the enthusiastis and fanboys - that he isn't likely to make the same mistakes again, because in the long term those are the people that are going to not only buy but also sell his game for him ;D

    I might be wrong.

    you talk about EA and call MJ a bad guy? :P EA are renowed for squezzing as much profit from a genre as possible.. look at fifa 1990-2020 is all the same basic shiz, just with updated tech. He was a guy who got lucky with his concept made some bad choices and is now back trying to make amends. OFC thats my opinion!

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Originally posted by Scilly

    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

    Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

    LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

    mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

    Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Mr. Jacobs, with all due respect...there's nothing to be gained from "setting the record straight".

    It cannot help.

    I know that it really doesn't matter what I say, that even if I had documents, sworn statements, etc. some people's opinions wouldn't change. I'm really not trying to set the record straight because if I was, I would name names, people toss and swear that it all wasn't my fault (some of it absolutely was) or that everything that happened was the result of me just following orders (it wasn't). Some people have asked some really good questions and if I ignore them, then people will say "See, he refuses to admit mistakes" (this has already happened even though I've probably admitted to mistakes more often here and in the past that 99% of development heads of studios/designers or "See, you can't trust him, he's evasive" (again, happened here) or even worse, "He won't learn from his mistakes!" (once again, with feeling, this has happened here too). I can't answer every question and some I am *absolutely* avoiding because they would entail people tossing and if I lose some backers because I won't engage in that behavior because either they continue to think it is my fault or because they think I'm hiding something, well, I'd rather lose the backers than go down that dark path.

    As I've always said, whether back in the early days of Dark Age of Camelot's development or now, if you don't trust me or think that we can do it, that's fine, it's your right.

     

     While it is true that you might not change minds with some type of documentation there is still the end result.  The game as it was released.  Does anything need to be said beyond that?

  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member
    I wouldn't say MJ did much in the way of hyping up WAR, and he did say he learned from his mistakes. Hickman and Barnett on the other hand can go f-ck themselves.
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member
    Originally posted by Sideras
    I wouldn't say MJ did much in the way of hyping up WAR, and he did say he learned from his mistakes. Hickman and Barnett on the other hand can go f-ck themselves.

    He did quite a lot of hyping. He was the General Manager. He did loads of interviews where he used more hyperbole than Obama has used in his entire presidency ;D

    Barnett and Hickman were worse, however. I could never understand how Hickman landed the position at Bioware for SWTOR. And Barnett is just Games Workshop's odd poster boy.

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by BizkitNL
    Originally posted by Scilly
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Originally posted by Scilly

    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

    Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

    LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

    mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

    Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

     

     

    NPS MJ, your the only dev imo that has ever given so much info and explantion prior to a project going ahead. I also think your allowing people to troll you to much but i undertsand your reluctance to ignore them and actually answer them. This makes the people that care respect you more so Kudos to you sir /bow

    Get a room, you two.

    stop being jealous and bring along your whip :P

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member
    Originally posted by Scilly

    stop being jealous and bring along your whip :P

    Well now... that was inappropriate.

    You do know that "backing Mark Jacobs" is a financial arrangement, right?

  • ScillyScilly penzancePosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash
    Originally posted by Scilly

    stop being jealous and bring along your whip :P

    Well now... that was inappropriate.

    You do know that "backing Mark Jacobs" is a financial arrangement, right?

    lol

  • SentimeSentime Chicago, ILPosts: 272Member

    As the saying goes...

    "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." :P

  • TadderTadder Naples, FLPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Sentime

    As the saying goes...

    "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." :P

    I thought it was, Fool me you can't get fooled again?

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,787Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lore84
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

     

    Believe it or not, people are capable of learning and moving on and it sounds like this game is going in the right direction.

    true. Specially if its away from EA's death grip.

    image
  • KvalandurKvalandur Shreveport, LAPosts: 31Member

    Having played DAOC from release through the first 3 years, I'm really interested in seeing another game that brings back the 3 sided RvR conflict. DAOC provided some of the most fun I've had playing MMOs, and I must say I'm so sick of these lame theme park games with their instanced excuse for PvP and their gear grubbing endless raiding. 

     I betad Warhammer too, so what. I mean who cares what happened in War, unless you've just got some axe to grind its pointless to beat on that diseased horse.

     To the future, to manning a siege engine atop a keep looking for sign of an approaching army!  CU sounds like a LOT more fun then these crap games they are making now!

  • -Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Hi, not trying to bash the game, but isn't this guy that is speaking for the game to the community, the same exact person that did the massive hyping of Warhammrr Online?

    To me, that indicates that he is somebody that knows how to use and exploit hype, to mislead the masses, and paint them a false image of a product based on hype, and exploit many people.

     

    You all should be careful. This should be a big Red Flag. But I am just pointing this out, so that maybe people who are interested in this game would look at it more realistically and no get exploited once again by a MMO developer/publisher....

    :-/ 

    I don't want to defend MJ but WAR was a good game!  It's only real flaw was two sides for RVR instead of 3.

    Note:  I do like RVR, even if I can't kill anyone on my side.  That is another thing that hurts RvR games, people not working together and no way to punish them.

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

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