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40 Man Raids "We Love 'Em"

RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

I suppose with 17 ex-Blizzard employees on their team, it shouldn't be shocking that the game will have them.

In a recent interview with Curse, they asked Mike Donatelli (Wildstar Content Director) if they would include 40-man raids.  

His answer, "Love em or hate them ... we love them and YES we have every intention of putting them in our game".

Is the return of 40 man raids a good thing or not?  

I think, personally, that it helps guilds.  It seems as raids have gotten smaller and smaller, guild have had an increasingly difficut time sticking together.  I ran a 40 man guild and wouldn't mind seeing it comeback.

 

If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
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Comments

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member

    While I personally have little interest in raiding and zero interest in 40-person raids, I think it's great for them to exist for those who do enjoy that. I hope it works out. The more variety available to gamers with different preferences, the better.

     

    As for me, I remember when I did a little raiding in WoW and what a drag it was to wait around for people. I spent a lot of time waiting. People are late, people have things come up, etc. So with 40 people is this busy day and age [edit: In the smart-phone era]? Good luck. Seriously. But I do hope it works.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PWN_FACE

    While I personally have little interest in raiding and zero interest in 40-person raids, I think it's great for them to exist for those who do enjoy that. I hope it works out. The more variety available to gamers with different preferences, the better.

    As for me, I remember when I did a little raiding in WoW and what it nightmare it was to wait around for people. I spent a lot of time waiting. People are late, people have things come up, etc. So with 40 people is this busy day and age? Good luck. Seriously. But I do hope it works.

    I have the same sentiment as PWN - I don't care for them, but more options for more playstyles can't hurt.

    It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AbdiellAbdiell san diego, CAPosts: 102Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

     

    The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon

    The problem with 40 person raids is: the human bladder, plus babies, dogs, cats, getting a beer, someone at the door, the buildings fire alarm .......

    So the chance of having to stop the raid while someone does something is so much higher with 40 people than with 20. Also the MOB is dead the Sword of Uber Rabbit Slaying has dropped and everyone of those 40 people want it how long does it take to hand out?

    If you get 45 minutes in the hour of actual raiding in a 20 person group you are doing well.  With a 40 person raid, 30 minutes in the hour would be good.

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    All the reasons I think 40 man raids are a thing of the past is answered here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    All the reasons I think 40 man raids are a thing of the past is answered here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

    And here we are still talking about it years later,  I wish games would generate this kind of passion again ... Well not quite that much.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    All the reasons I think 40 man raids are a thing of the past is answered here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

    Yeah, that was pretty funny. I'm just not at all interested in participating in that. No one in RL yells at me like that, and I'm sure as hell not going to have people yelling at me like that when I want to play and have a good time. But I understand that kind of passion and pressure is fun for some people, so I hope they have a venue where they can enjoy it.

     

    Clever animations^^

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,271Member Uncommon
    40 mans get my vote.
  • AmsaiAmsai Montgomery, ALPosts: 88Member Uncommon

    I do love to raid, but that was freaking hillarious. Its 2 AM here and Im laghing my ass off at this raid leader, and have drink coming out my nose.

     

    WELL DONE SIR!

     

    Sad part is its funny because its true. Now all we need is an animated version of loot drama after the raid........ (sigh) I could tell some awesome stories about the endless drama llama that is ninja looting. Have any of you ever heard a grown man cry over teamspeak? I have and I was torn between doing my duty as a guild leader and just laughing at the dude and calling him a little girl.

     

    So would I go back? Hell No! Im somewhere in between 5-6 man raids and wishing for an online multiplayer (6-10 max) skyrim with new content every month for years that I pay a subscription for.

  • atuerstaratuerstar melbournePosts: 234Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr

    I suppose with 17 ex-Blizzard employees on their team, it shouldn't be shocking that the game will have them.

    In a recent interview with Curse, they asked Mike Donatelli (Wildstar Content Director) if they would include 40-man raids.  

    His answer, "Love em or hate them ... we love them and YES we have every intention of putting them in our game".

    Is the return of 40 man raids a good thing or not?  

    I think, personally, that it helps guilds.  It seems as raids have gotten smaller and smaller, guild have had an increasingly difficut time sticking together.  I ran a 40 man guild and wouldn't mind seeing it comeback.

     

    Yes, yes and hell yes.

     

    The one thing missing in every mmorpg in the last seven years has been the large community feeling engendered by being a part of, or officer in, a 40 man raid guild. While other news has interested me this one piece of news about wildstar means I will be definitely giving it a shot.

     

    I have missed the sense of co-ordination, helping my guild and achievement writ large.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    All the reasons I think 40 man raids are a thing of the past is answered here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04

    That's hilarious. Imagine if players could decide to pk each other when they fall out in such scenarios: This "raid leader's" head would be on a spike after about 5secs... image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abdiell
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.

    The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.

    No, the reason they went away was because people weren't doing them. They went away because people who wanted to do them couldn't get into them due to what was required to get 40 people at the same place at the same time on the same server. The rare drops, DKP and elitist pricks in raiding guilds didn't help either.

    So, if a dev makes their content more accessible to the people that want to play it, that's greed?  Between the 'greed' and and the 'carebeared to hell for money' thing, it's obvious you're passionate about your beliefs here, so I won't waste much time explaining this.

    It may have possibly worked for MMO gamers in 2000. It didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2003. It certainly didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2007, and it definitely won't work for most MMO gamers in 2012 unless they take a new approach to it. Better dungeonfinder, cross-server teaming, NPCs to fill empty slots, distributed drops, guaranteed rewards... there's a lot of ways to fix it, but the old system was not only broken, but does not fit the way most people play MMOs these days.

    That's why not just WOW but almost every MMO has reduced the number of players necessary for raids over the past ten years.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    If I'm going to do raiding, I expect it to be big. 40 is good, 60 - 80 would even be better. Though to me, raiding isn't something you should be doing every other day (more like once a week), and yes, it should take some solid organizing.

    True, it does have a lot of downtime, but the most fun I've had in raids were always in the big ones, so I guess that made up for it. :) 10-men raiding feels not that different than your ordinary group play to me.

  • TintagilTintagil NYC, NYPosts: 33Member Uncommon

    I love large raids with lots of people and lots of action. They can have a very epic feel to them, but as mentioned by several people the coordination can be a nightmare and it seems like there is always someone who leroys the group to death by not paying attention. With that said I am still totally for large scale raids as long as they are designed well, i.e. good loot mechanics, solid guild/community systems to get players playing/working together and don't neglect small group or solo content.

    -T

  • kurosenshukurosenshu ToulousePosts: 49Member Uncommon

    My question is:

    - are we talking traditional raiding, as in raiding is the endgame activity ?

    if so, no thank you not playing that POS !

    - are we talking some new style of raiding ?

    if so, yes I might try it !

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon

    While I agree that Guilds have grown smaller and this is a bad thing.  I do not like the cliquey nature of smaller guilds myself and I've always been fond of large 100+ member guilds.  I still dislike organized raiding.

     

    Having to schedule to play a video game is the most asanine feature I could think of for an MMO.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • Insane666Insane666 gdanskPosts: 66Member Uncommon

    being an old scholl mmo'er i was disgusted by what could pass for being a raid theese days,,, one team encounter? its a raid!! say the new school devs,,,

     

    while 40 ppl raid is definately a step (back) in the right direction for mmo's i wont start gigglin like a japaneese schoolgirl until i see some 100-200 ppl raids we were used to back in the day,,, uninstanced ones,,,

    Games previously played: AO, AoC, Aion, AoW, Eve, SWTor, WaR, STO, TSW, DCUO, FE, BP, ProjectEntropia, FootballSuperstars!

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    Back when my guild used to run MC in WoW, about 10 minutes before we would have a message sent to the guild saying "Empty your bladder, take your pepto, put your kids in a closet, give the wife shopping money, shut off your phone, rip your doorbell off, lock your bedroom door...IT'S RAIDIN' TIME!"

     

    Edit: We still do it for Sha hehe

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    I hope so......is what EQ started the 3D mmorpg gaming style with, it forced us to group and work together and build relationships with other players.

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member
    Well I can't say that 40 man raids will be a big incentive for me to play the game. But I'm glad to see a company willing to give those that enjoy them the ability to do so, instead of just gutting them from the game as a matter of convenience.

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • XarkoXarko Hradec KralovePosts: 394Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Insane666

    being an old scholl mmo'er i was disgusted by what could pass for being a raid theese days,,, one team encounter? its a raid!! say the new school devs,,,

     

    while 40 ppl raid is definately a step (back) in the right direction for mmo's i wont start gigglin like a japaneese schoolgirl until i see some 100-200 ppl raids we were used to back in the day,,, uninstanced ones,,,

    The more players in raid the simplier are mechanics in boss fights. So ye.. 100-200 ppl raids are pure zergfests I personaly dont find  enjoyable. I cant say Im very excited too see a comback of 40man raids eighter. For the same reason.

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member Uncommon

    The amount of people doesn't really matter. The quality of the raid encounters is far more important.

    Well designed and executed 5-man content is better than poorly done 20-man content.

    Usually when raid size increases the room for error increases as well.

    That's why I like content for less players.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon

    I have never done a 40 man raid but I to this day raid 24 man content in EQ2.  Keeping 24 people playing consistent days and focused for 3 hours at a time is a pain in the ass, I can't imagine what 40 would be like unless there was tons of redundancy at that point and it really didn't matter to much who you included after a point.

    Do you have to fill all of those 40 slots with a specific class/build like we often have to in EQ2 or are 20+ of those slots filler where you can shove any body that can manage autoattack and joust when the red text tells them to?

    I personally prefer dynamic scalling of raids.  From group size all the way up to whatever maxium the devs feel works but I also know that creates tons of loot issues and human ego's get bruised all so easy at the idea of "giving" good loot to people who don't "deserve" it.

     

  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    all i remember of raiding  is

     

    1/ the 1-2 hours waiting for people to turn up

    2/the 3-4 hours of doing the raids

    3/ the wipes and  doing the whole thing again

    4/ the one drop you need which will double your dps/healing and somone else rolls  on it because it will impove there dps by 0.01 dps

    5/getting kicked from a raid group because your dps is too low(because of above)

    6/belonging  to guilds who helped tanks and  healers get there starting equipment only for them  to leave for bigger guilds

    oh how much i love  doing raids

    image

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,356Member Uncommon
    The problem with 40 man raids was just managing to get 40 people on at the same time in a guild. Guilds are so diverse now, and there aren't as many people in a guild unless they invite everyone under the sun. I felt like I was in an awesome guild when there was 30 people online once. I feel like it would just be incredibly difficult to get everyone on at the same time, with nobody calling out because of some issue and then on top of that getting everyone to last the entire way through the raid which tends to be pretty long.
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