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Should GW2 have kept more traditional mmo mechanics?

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  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    the only thing i wish  in gw2 is there was more options 

    like more weapon types so you can have any class really do anything

    some classes i want to play certain ways  but i keep feeling i am being forced into  one  of 3 paths  

    and even then  some of the paths  are very weak

     

    but i do like that  i am not having to play a healer to heal 

     quest hubs are almost the same as  quest givers  you just dont need to talk to anyone to do them and as i mostly just clicked on the quest then accept  with no reading  its perfect for me

     

    and dynamic events are  really great   i have seen random grouping all the time

    which ive never seen  in  any other game  dynamic events  are amazing  and work i just wish  they would expand on them

     

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  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,806Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by marsh9799

    I didn't mind the lack of quest hubs.  That was one thing I didn't really like about shift of mob grinding to quest leveling.  In the mob grinding world, I typically went all over the place.  "Dynamic," kill, find, talk to, etc. quests... I've done so many they just don't do it for me anymore especially when I have to follow a very specific path.

     

    The trinity exists for a reason.  In any given fight, the goal is to kill the mob and not die.  That's why there is a "trinity."  Now, the trinity has varied overtime.  I was first told the trinity was Warrior, Rogue, and Cleric in EQ.  It was the best tanking, the best sustained damage, the best healing.  It was never the best group.  It was just a foundation for a good group.  No slower got you no where fast.  The problem I had with GW2 is not that they were trying to get out of the trinity mold, but they got out of the trinity mold by going a garbage route.  Basically going with all DPS is not breaking the trinity.  It's just being dumb.  Should have gone a hybridization route with classes simultaneously filling multiple roles and expanding roles beyond what games currently offer (or returning to old style games with various support roles) or by creating hybrid viability.

    The trinity exists for the reason it is easier to program an online (and offline as well) software piece without particle colision detection.

    It is also easier to orchestrate the fight when you (hte programmer) know what is going to happen.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • DocDexterDocDexter MalmöPosts: 24Member

    I'm perfectly fine with the way GW2 is at the moment. There's absolutely no reason for quest hubs. My biggest gripe is that the hearts are part of Map Completion. Some hearts are boring, and they should be completely optional. Likewise I'm no fan of the trinity crap. You should be able to do a dungeon with 5 warriors.

    That said, I too hope they add more skills and weapons to the mix. Or, as one poster posited, the ability to vary the skills on existing weaponsets. Even if they doubled the skill list there would be no problem earning skill points enough to buy them all.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,144Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zimboy69

    the only thing i wish  in gw2 is there was more options 

    like more weapon types so you can have any class really do anything

    ... 

    Khm... hardly can remember any game with more weapon types and combinations. Plus ability to switch instantly between 2 sets.

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon

    The lack of PvE is what drives me nuts. I wish ArenaNet would of done something like the Underworld in GW1 with this game. 

    The PvE aspect of this game is severely lacking and needs something done about it. The dungeons are only fun for soo long, 

    we could use something that would take more time and skill.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,144Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kabitoshin

    The lack of PvE is what drives me nuts. I wish ArenaNet would of done something like the Underworld in GW1 with this game. 

    The PvE aspect of this game is severely lacking and needs something done about it. The dungeons are only fun for soo long, 

    we could use something that would take more time and skill.

    Not sure which at which level this happen, for sure not up to lv. 40. Having 8 alts up to that level, playing them all, there is enough PVE content and have no objections. 

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by kabitoshin

    The lack of PvE is what drives me nuts. I wish ArenaNet would of done something like the Underworld in GW1 with this game. 

    The PvE aspect of this game is severely lacking and needs something done about it. The dungeons are only fun for soo long, 

    we could use something that would take more time and skill.

    Not sure which at which level this happen, for sure not up to lv. 40. Having 8 alts up to that level, playing them all, there is enough PVE content and have no objections. 

    yea so far i found gw2 to have well more pve than most MMOs at this stage of their life.. you could easily hit 80 with one of each race and not repeat many zones at all depending how you space things out and supplement some levels with crafting/WvW/Dungeon runs. Hell newest alt my mesmer right now has done almost zero crafting, no WvW, only 1 dungeon and just hit level 50 and only has 25% world completion.. there is a ton of PVE content for those that enjoy the zones. With scaling it actually increases this more than most any other MMO since at say level 70 you have pretty much every zone in the game to level in

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    I may be wrong of course, but I guess that what he means by "PvE" is "Get to max level and then grind dungeons to get better gear for months, until next tier hits so I can do it again" style of content.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by zimboy69

    the only thing i wish  in gw2 is there was more options 

    like more weapon types so you can have any class really do anything

    ... 

    Khm... hardly can remember any game with more weapon types and combinations. Plus ability to switch instantly between 2 sets.

    Hey theres nothing wrong for wishing for more. The game has plenty, but more wouldn't hurt :P 

     

    I would love some variety within weapon types. This is a GSword, this is a flaming GSword with fire based abilities, this ones Ice, and so on. 

     

    While I'm fine with the variety already in game I'd also be happy with more :P 

  • JeleenaJeleena AlmerePosts: 123Member
    Originally posted by DocDexter

    I'm perfectly fine with the way GW2 is at the moment. There's absolutely no reason for quest hubs. My biggest gripe is that the hearts are part of Map Completion. Some hearts are boring, and they should be completely optional. Likewise I'm no fan of the trinity crap. You should be able to do a dungeon with 5 warriors.

    That said, I too hope they add more skills and weapons to the mix. Or, as one poster posited, the ability to vary the skills on existing weaponsets. Even if they doubled the skill list there would be no problem earning skill points enough to buy them all.

    I agree with you on all points. But then again, the game is expanding all the time so I expect in future there will be more skills and weapons :)

    To the OP: I really liked GW1, I also like GW2 very much. I never expected them to be similar.

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon

    The very fact that someone asks this question means they are playing "Devil's Advocate" or want to see how many other people out there hate/love the game. Either way the answer is NO! Go back and play the countless "traditional" MMO clones out there if you don't like GW2.

     

    I encourage Anet to go further with the NONtraditional changes they started. Thank God for no more quest hubs! Thank you Anet for progressing towards a more dynamic world instead of running from quest hub to quest hub! Thank you for constant updates and new events to enjoy! Thank you GW2 (Anet) for NOT being like every other MMO on the market today! Thank you for a more challenging and fun combat option instead of standing around mashing buttons! Thank you for a beautiful and well designed UI system that stays out of the way of what I'd rather see on my screen!

     

    Yes there are improvements needed for the game going forward, BUT in no way should they go back to the "traditional MMO mechanics" !!!!!! That's like going back to the girl that broke your heart. Leave it in the past man!

    image

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by natpick

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

    This is simply not true. I have went through several different dungeons without dying once. Perhaps you should practice your character more?

  • EtherignisEtherignis philadelphia, PAPosts: 246Member
    I say no keep the gameplay mech they got now, no one dont have too be tie down too a group and constantly worry about losing loot roll in open world boss event. I havent play this game in awhile, Im downloading atm cant too get back on.
  • lathaanlathaan viennaPosts: 475Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by natpick

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

    l2p l2p l2p

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    I'm against quests if they are not optional / side quests or unique as they used to be at early runescape.
    So the fact to make all hearts was too big effort from my part. =XD
    At least this game is not quest grind like many others!

    For trinity: time to time I feel need of more healing, but TBH, it happend to me even at "classic" MMO, so may be it not big deal, at least I would not vote for change it (I would for add more healing to existing skills).

    I think this game need more content, revisited dungeons and clear drop / reward policy.
    Plus they sure need to fix bugs, lag spikes, over population in single zone, make other zones attractive to play in & not only for explore run.

    Sorry OP, I must be disagree here as I see not same problems.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by remyburke
    They could have kept traditional roles and did everything else the way they did and it would have been an amazing game. They went overboard with the reinvention IMO. There's a reason that roles have played a part in RPGs since the 1970's.

    Actually, the classes in GW2 are closer to the original Dungeon and Dragons classes than any EQ/WoW clone classes are. There's no trinity in pen and paper RPGs. There's no agro table either.

    You're absolutely wrong about that one. Never in any AD&D game did someone ever tell the wizard to go and tank the giant troll....seriously LOL omg you went there. And the priest on WoW is so much closer to the cleric in AD&D then anything the other mmo's have come out with with the exception of DDO/Neverwinter. The agro table thing is an mmo phenomenon so of course AD&D wouldn't have that since the system allowed for the control over the monsters by the GM himself.

    Every mmo has had classes similar to the original ones however every dev team has changed them in mmo's to fit the mmo gaming structure so even those found in DDO and Neverwinter won't be traditional in the truest sense of the word.

    I don't think that GW2 has an issue with anything other then the trinity for dungeons and dungeon focus itself, If they had not tried to change their manifesto immediately after release to a complete 180 from what they had said for 7 years prior to launch to attract the WoW crowd who want to do nothing but dungeons constantly. we wouldn't be having this conversation, because there would be no dungeon focus like it is now, it would be all DE. 

    So basically I'm saying if they had stayed unconventional entirely and did only new DE meta permanent additions to content (as big as the dragon events and temple captures) then they wouldn't have a need to stick with traditional mmo's because it wouldn't be using traditional mmo's mechanics (ie dungeons-only-focus leading to the need for LFG system and the problem of chaotic pve fights in dungeons)

  • OsoPrimeOsoPrime Scottsdale, AZPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Epicent
    Originally posted by natpick

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

    This is simply not true. I have went through several different dungeons without dying once. Perhaps you should practice your character more?

    Serously, I don't understand how one can literally die every two minutes, I did 5 dungeon and fractal runs today and I only died twice, one death was due to sheer stupidity (fought something that clearly had a knockback on a ledge) the other death was a failure to properly manage my defensive resources (used two of my rolls, wasted my heal and burned a block because I thought it would be cute) I love the chaotic nature of combat in Guild Wars 2, coming out of an encounter virtually unscathed due to precision dodging and smart resource management is rewarding. I also find GW2 combat far more immersive than traditional WoW/EQ models who tend to hurt my brain with their "Here stand here and let this dragon claw the shit out of you, don't worry it's cool you see those guys standing there they are going to spam you with heals!" 

    So no on combat alone I'm glad GW2 did something different, because WoW/EQ has been done to death...I also disagree with GW2 having arcade style combat, it plays nothing like God of War, Bayonetta,  Devil May Cry, and other legitimate arcadey action games.

     

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Austin, TXPosts: 510Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyChasm

    There is plenty that is good about GW2 but I just found it overwhelmingly tedious.  There are many reasons for this that I won't go into, but principally I never felt any sense of immersion.  I put this down to the following: -

    1) Lack of Quest Hubs: In many areas the mechanics just felt over simplistic.  The hearts and the events were just a step too far in removing the player from any meaningful interaction with the game.  You just role up and fill the bar, then move on.  You don't need to talk to anyone or interact in anyway, you don't even meet the same people because you can just float around the tetris map aimlessly without any rhyme or reason.  Even learning skills and combat were just too quick and simple; and simple= dull.

    My question is why does GW2 have to be a carbon copy?  Why do we need all fantasy games to have static NPC's with big yellow exclamation marks over their heads?  Aren't there already a dozen of these?  If you like the standard MMO mold, then why even waste your time on a game that doesn't fit that mold?  It's not like MMO's release without any information about them.  These days it's hard to get a publisher to shut the hell up about their game mechanics, so not knowing what you're getting into can only be your own fault at this point.

    Some people don't want their gaming experience to be, walk into town click on exclamation mark.  Some people, myself included, wished GW2 went even further and completely randomized their events to the point where you don't know what's going to happen in the world or where.

    Some gamers actually like "floating around the tetris map" and looking for events to participate in.  Especially those of us who play for more than just to grind immediately to max level and then gripe that there's nothing left to do.  In GW2, you get to decide how you participate in the game, and I think that's an exciting step in the right direction, not the wrong direction.  I can see how poeple's opinions will vary on this.  Some people really like having their hand held through every corridor of the game, but why come to a game that doesn't do that and ask why it isn't like the other games?

    2) Lack of Defined Roles: Other parts of the game mechanics were too complex, such as the group setup, which required you to set the roles and the tactics and to communicate these with your team.  Great if you have a regular group, but given that the rest of the game is so desperately casual this seems to be an odd anomaly, and results in the complete mess that are dungeons amongst more casual or uninitiated players or PUG groups.  

    In addition, given that all characters fundamentally do the same thing there is never that sense of being needed in a group, you are just a replaceable part.  Also, the fact your skills are largely chosen for you  juxtaposes awkwardly against the apparent freedom from defined roles.

    Yet again, there are dozens of MMO's that wall players in with a ton of "No, you can't do that because you're X class" rules.  Why is this so called "holy trinity" so ingrained into the MMO psyche? Why does every MMO have to follow that pattern?  In my opinion we need to reward the developers that try to break the 1970's Gary Gygax, Class/Level mentality.  Some of us aren't sheeple.  Some of us don't need our hands held that much.  I, for one, want the devs to get their damn hands off of mine and let me build a character for once.  Not a class.  I want something that is truly my own from start to finish.

    Heck, in my opinion, GW2 is only a baby step in the right direction.  RIFT is more of a giant stride in the right direction, but they went vastly overboard and swamped us with so many abilities we need macros just to use them all.  I just want a list of skills to pick from and some points to put into whichever skills I want.  If I want to make a character that can use a sword and a shield and has a little skill in using a bow, then I can, and I don't want someone putting up an invisible "class" wall that says I can't.

    I basically want my character in Skyrim to be plopped as-is into an MMO. (Unfortunately, TESO doesn't seem to be going that route.  I see Holy Trinity written between lines in everything they've released)

    Tear down all the walls.  The devs should build the worlds, and we should build the characters.

  • loulakiloulaki PatrasPosts: 918Member

    well i didnt read all the pages but based on the OP these are what i hated in old MMOs ..!

     

    but there are features i miss from old MMOs like the 1.seamless-immerse world, small but without loading screens, and 2.the open world pvp or at least the competition (pvp) between guilds and not ONLY factions ...

    image

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass

    Yet again, there are dozens of MMO's that wall players in with a ton of "No, you can't do that because you're X class" rules.  Why is this so called "holy trinity" so ingrained into the MMO psyche? Why does every MMO have to follow that pattern?  In my opinion we need to reward the developers that try to break the 1970's Gary Gygax, Class/Level mentality.  Some of us aren't sheeple.  Some of us don't need our hands held that much.  I, for one, want the devs to get their damn hands off of mine and let me build a character for once.  Not a class.  I want something that is truly my own from start to finish.

    I have to defend Gary Gygax here... while he is indeed at the origin of the "class+level" design, he's definitely not at the origin of the "holy trinity with threat table" design. The classes in D&D are closer to the GW2 classes than to EQ/WoW clone classes.

    Heck, in my opinion, GW2 is only a baby step in the right direction.  RIFT is more of a giant stride in the right direction, but they went vastly overboard and swamped us with so many abilities we need macros just to use them all.  I just want a list of skills to pick from and some points to put into whichever skills I want.  If I want to make a character that can use a sword and a shield and has a little skill in using a bow, then I can, and I don't want someone putting up an invisible "class" wall that says I can't.

    I basically want my character in Skyrim to be plopped as-is into an MMO. (Unfortunately, TESO doesn't seem to be going that route.  I see Holy Trinity written between lines in everything they've released)

    Tear down all the walls.  The devs should build the worlds, and we should build the characters.

    Basically, you want UO... :)

    PS: I'd take GW2's design anytime over Rift. Rift is just another "Tank/DPS/Healer with threat table" WoW clone. But that's just me.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon
    They should absolutely be applauded for not copying traditional mmorg Mechanics AGAIN. Even if GW2 suddenly turns into a disaster it will offered us customer/ players something new and something that future devs can innovate from. We have traditional mechanics, whats the point of the more of the same.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • protorocprotoroc Fort Myers, FLPosts: 1,042Member

    I enjoy the DEs, heart quests and all the PVE fun that comes along with them. The lack of trinity makes the combat extremely shallow and stale. The skills are uninspired, using the same weapon skills since level 3 is boring as hell. I applaud them for trying something different but it's obvious that it's mostly a failed experiment (especailly after the last patch that returns to basic mmo endgame by forcing you into their horribly dungeons for daily laurels, same tredmill as WOWs almost).

     

    GW2 is a MMO you play for a month tops before you have everything you want that doesn't require you to depend on RNG. There's no reason to play past level 80 unless you're in some really sweet WVW guild.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    Yes but not quest hubs actual world depth would have been nice and RPG features.
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    Lack of Quest Hubs: OMG, how can anyone find Quest Hubs better than hearts and Dynamic Events? Quest Hubs are meaningful interaction and immersive? How can you find a quest-giver that asks you to go find a necklace somewhere meaningful or immersive? The quest giver remains there statically and you can have another player go fetch it just as or before you've returned it. How totally and utterly meaningless can these static quest hubs get?

    Lack of Defined roles: this is a two-edged sword. It's either LF Tank, LF healer, ... or you allow players to really fill different roles. The people who are used to playing certain needed classes that relatively few actually wanted to play, may not like that. The sense of being needed isn't there, that's probably true. It could have been a better game for dungeons if different roles were more clearly defined. With great flexibility you get the problem of having to choose how you play your class. That's not easy at all and can be quite daunting at first.

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