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40 Man Raids "We Love 'Em"
I suppose with 17 ex-Blizzard employees on their team, it shouldn't be shocking that the game will have them.
In a recent interview with Curse, they asked Mike Donatelli (Wildstar Content Director) if they would include 40-man raids.
His answer, "Love em or hate them ... we love them and YES we have every intention of putting them in our game".
Is the return of 40 man raids a good thing or not?
I think, personally, that it helps guilds. It seems as raids have gotten smaller and smaller, guild have had an increasingly difficut time sticking together. I ran a 40 man guild and wouldn't mind seeing it comeback.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Comments
I have the same sentiment as PWN - I don't care for them, but more options for more playstyles can't hurt.
It will be interesting to see if they found a new way to approach the 40-man raid or if they are just going to repeat mistakes of the past. After all, there's reasons why raids have gone from 40 to 25 to 10 to 4-6.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The only reason they went away in WoW was greed. The game was wildy popular in vanilla, but they were able to add to their already staggering sub numbers by allowing more people to expierence raids. They carebeared their to hell for money, not because the 40 man raid didn't work.
The problem with 40 person raids is: the human bladder, plus babies, dogs, cats, getting a beer, someone at the door, the buildings fire alarm .......
So the chance of having to stop the raid while someone does something is so much higher with 40 people than with 20. Also the MOB is dead the Sword of Uber Rabbit Slaying has dropped and everyone of those 40 people want it how long does it take to hand out?
If you get 45 minutes in the hour of actual raiding in a 20 person group you are doing well. With a 40 person raid, 30 minutes in the hour would be good.
And here we are still talking about it years later, I wish games would generate this kind of passion again ... Well not quite that much.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I do love to raid, but that was freaking hillarious. Its 2 AM here and Im laghing my ass off at this raid leader, and have drink coming out my nose.
WELL DONE SIR!
Sad part is its funny because its true. Now all we need is an animated version of loot drama after the raid........ (sigh) I could tell some awesome stories about the endless drama llama that is ninja looting. Have any of you ever heard a grown man cry over teamspeak? I have and I was torn between doing my duty as a guild leader and just laughing at the dude and calling him a little girl.
So would I go back? Hell No! Im somewhere in between 5-6 man raids and wishing for an online multiplayer (6-10 max) skyrim with new content every month for years that I pay a subscription for.
Yes, yes and hell yes.
The one thing missing in every mmorpg in the last seven years has been the large community feeling engendered by being a part of, or officer in, a 40 man raid guild. While other news has interested me this one piece of news about wildstar means I will be definitely giving it a shot.
I have missed the sense of co-ordination, helping my guild and achievement writ large.
That's hilarious. Imagine if players could decide to pk each other when they fall out in such scenarios: This "raid leader's" head would be on a spike after about 5secs...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
No, the reason they went away was because people weren't doing them. They went away because people who wanted to do them couldn't get into them due to what was required to get 40 people at the same place at the same time on the same server. The rare drops, DKP and elitist pricks in raiding guilds didn't help either.
So, if a dev makes their content more accessible to the people that want to play it, that's greed? Between the 'greed' and and the 'carebeared to hell for money' thing, it's obvious you're passionate about your beliefs here, so I won't waste much time explaining this.
It may have possibly worked for MMO gamers in 2000. It didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2003. It certainly didn't work for most MMO gamers in 2007, and it definitely won't work for most MMO gamers in 2012 unless they take a new approach to it. Better dungeonfinder, cross-server teaming, NPCs to fill empty slots, distributed drops, guaranteed rewards... there's a lot of ways to fix it, but the old system was not only broken, but does not fit the way most people play MMOs these days.
That's why not just WOW but almost every MMO has reduced the number of players necessary for raids over the past ten years.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If I'm going to do raiding, I expect it to be big. 40 is good, 60 - 80 would even be better. Though to me, raiding isn't something you should be doing every other day (more like once a week), and yes, it should take some solid organizing.
True, it does have a lot of downtime, but the most fun I've had in raids were always in the big ones, so I guess that made up for it.
10-men raiding feels not that different than your ordinary group play to me.
I love large raids with lots of people and lots of action. They can have a very epic feel to them, but as mentioned by several people the coordination can be a nightmare and it seems like there is always someone who leroys the group to death by not paying attention. With that said I am still totally for large scale raids as long as they are designed well, i.e. good loot mechanics, solid guild/community systems to get players playing/working together and don't neglect small group or solo content.
-T
My question is:
- are we talking traditional raiding, as in raiding is the endgame activity ?
if so, no thank you not playing that POS !
- are we talking some new style of raiding ?
if so, yes I might try it !
While I agree that Guilds have grown smaller and this is a bad thing. I do not like the cliquey nature of smaller guilds myself and I've always been fond of large 100+ member guilds. I still dislike organized raiding.
Having to schedule to play a video game is the most asanine feature I could think of for an MMO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
being an old scholl mmo'er i was disgusted by what could pass for being a raid theese days,,, one team encounter? its a raid!! say the new school devs,,,
while 40 ppl raid is definately a step (back) in the right direction for mmo's i wont start gigglin like a japaneese schoolgirl until i see some 100-200 ppl raids we were used to back in the day,,, uninstanced ones,,,
Games previously played: AO, AoC, Aion, AoW, Eve, SWTor, WaR, STO, TSW, DCUO, FE, BP, ProjectEntropia, FootballSuperstars!
Back when my guild used to run MC in WoW, about 10 minutes before we would have a message sent to the guild saying "Empty your bladder, take your pepto, put your kids in a closet, give the wife shopping money, shut off your phone, rip your doorbell off, lock your bedroom door...IT'S RAIDIN' TIME!"
Edit: We still do it for Sha hehe
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
If you dont do stupid things while youre young, youll have nothing to smile about when youre old.
The more players in raid the simplier are mechanics in boss fights. So ye.. 100-200 ppl raids are pure zergfests I personaly dont find enjoyable. I cant say Im very excited too see a comback of 40man raids eighter. For the same reason.
The amount of people doesn't really matter. The quality of the raid encounters is far more important.
Well designed and executed 5-man content is better than poorly done 20-man content.
Usually when raid size increases the room for error increases as well.
That's why I like content for less players.
I have never done a 40 man raid but I to this day raid 24 man content in EQ2. Keeping 24 people playing consistent days and focused for 3 hours at a time is a pain in the ass, I can't imagine what 40 would be like unless there was tons of redundancy at that point and it really didn't matter to much who you included after a point.
Do you have to fill all of those 40 slots with a specific class/build like we often have to in EQ2 or are 20+ of those slots filler where you can shove any body that can manage autoattack and joust when the red text tells them to?
I personally prefer dynamic scalling of raids. From group size all the way up to whatever maxium the devs feel works but I also know that creates tons of loot issues and human ego's get bruised all so easy at the idea of "giving" good loot to people who don't "deserve" it.
all i remember of raiding is
1/ the 1-2 hours waiting for people to turn up
2/the 3-4 hours of doing the raids
3/ the wipes and doing the whole thing again
4/ the one drop you need which will double your dps/healing and somone else rolls on it because it will impove there dps by 0.01 dps
5/getting kicked from a raid group because your dps is too low(because of above)
6/belonging to guilds who helped tanks and healers get there starting equipment only for them to leave for bigger guilds
oh how much i love doing raids
Back in wow when there was 40 man raids, there really was no dps counter. It was just knowing the fights and being with a guild. I don't think there was pugs of 40 mans ever, it was always a guild thing.
This is one issue with large raids my other reason for not liking them is unbelievability.
What I mean by this is MMO gaming is an extension of my love of RPG table top Pen & Paper from the early 80's. For over 30 years I have had this fascination with small group settings because of my love of D&D, at no point did I ever sit around the kitchen table with 39 of my closest friends raiding a dungeon for its vast treasures. It was always less then 8 people that did this and to me it kept personal and intuitive.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!