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For a series known for its amazing PvE - why so focused on PvP for ESO?

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Comments

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Zefire

    You re out of your mind

    The series are all about single player experience as bethesda has never released an mmo before.

    Additionally pve is for girls

    So much genius, in so little a sentence.

    ------------

    We know so little of the game.  Only a couple of classes have been partially revealed.  Much of how the game will be balanced is still unknown.  How can you say they are focusing on PvP as the main selling point at this time?

    If it is like any other MMO, this game will be 80% PvE content.

     

    image

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    There are a ton of people in WoW that are PvP only, but Blizzard's focus is clearly on PvE.  So if there's a focus on PvP, then there can be tons of people in ESO that will PvE.

     

    I personally don't really like PvP (I must be a girl lol), however, DAoC was the ONLY game that I ever PvP'd much in.  In WoW, I have a Druid, Warlock, Warrior, and Hunter that I've had since the first month it was released, and I think between them, I only have like 200 honorable kills lol

  • EletherylEletheryl morenoPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by Margulis
    I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

    You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

  • InktomiInktomi merrick, NYPosts: 663Member

    Y'know what? I don't really care. I don't care about the PvE, the PvP or the .0025% of the world I can or cannot PvP on. I just really want to play the game. It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

    No way man. It's a brand name.

    Zenimax has to appeal to a very diverse crowd that has followed this brand, if not blindly, for years. So yeah, they have to appeal to the crafters, the min-max mages, the two-handed hack-it-all's-gonna-melt-your-face-with-my-axe and the duel-wielding-quest-grinding-flower-picking crowd that has sprung from every river run through Nirn. That is why PvP is going to be part of TESO, in my humble opinion.

    What is the music of life?

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Inktomi

    It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

    No way man. It's a brand name.

     

    Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

  • InktomiInktomi merrick, NYPosts: 663Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Inktomi

    It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

    No way man. It's a brand name.

     

    Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

    True, past performance is not indicative of future results. But there is $x.xx of dollars waiting on this game. They release I will invest into them and give it a go. It turns out to be another...what was it...tortanic? I lose a couple of bucks. 

    I didn't lose a dollar on Star Wars, The Secret World and countless other over-hyped duds that have rolled down this mmorpg.com pipe. I am willing to put my rep behind TESO though.

    What is the music of life?

  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    Because it is mmo. If you want to pve go and play single player rpg's. Focus must be on pvp!
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

     

    PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

     

    PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

     

    Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

     

    My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Eletheryl

    You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

    This is RvR, which is a subsection of PvP.  They don't have world PvP or PvP matches which would be a large chunk of that 'insanly huge" PvP population.

  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

     

    PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

     

    PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

     

    Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

     

    My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

    PvP doesnt discriminate... If you know the insides and out of the charater your playing an your foe just as equally, knowing the habits of foe and timing.. you can defeat your opponent.

    However PvE, going against a controlled AI knowing the insides and outs of the Bosses abilities you can win BUT you still have to deal with the politics and rules set up by the guild that is running the raid... thus creating situations where one could win the roll for an item but still NOT gain said item.

    image

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Eletheryl

    You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

    This is RvR, which is a subsection of PvP.  They don't have world PvP or PvP matches which would be a large chunk of that 'insanly huge" PvP population.

    Subsection? Are you crazy? First realms go to war, then you are sent to fight that war.

    First RvR, then PvP. RvR = mass people vs mass people, then PvP - player vs player

    Oh and those laughable "arena" matches you speak of... that shouldnt even take place, unless they make a Colosseum somewhere and it should not be "queued" you should shit down and await your turn. We actually used to do this in DAoC... and it was all player-organized and everybody respected it... members from all three realms would sit in a pre-determinded region in the frontiers and wait their turn while others were having their fight inside the "ring". Or you could just go there and watch... but that takes a bit more mature audience to pull this off, since, again, it was all player organized.

    Anyway RvR is at the top of the "pvp hierarchy" because its not about you, but about your faction as a whole. Stop thinking about yourself or what you can get from it - think bigger...

    “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Inktomi

    It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

    No way man. It's a brand name.

     

    Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

    Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • InktomiInktomi merrick, NYPosts: 663Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Inktomi

    It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

    No way man. It's a brand name.

     

    Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

    Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

    Zenimax (Media) owns Bethesda, Arkane, Id and Zenimax Studios. The TES IP is all owned under one roof. So the powers that be at the top of Zenimax will probably not want their online version of the game released* without the same level of quality that the SP games were made.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Inktomi
    Originally posted by Distopia
     

    Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

    Zenimax (Media) owns Bethesda, Arkane, Id and Zenimax Studios. The TES IP is all owned under one roof. So the powers that be at the top of Zenimax will probably not want their online version of the game released* without the same level of quality that the SP games were made.

    I certainly would hope so, my point was about the lack of similarities between the TOR situation and this one. To be specific i do not think a failure here would come back to haunt the TES franchise as a whole, i think that's half the reason they've created a studio as they have, not to mention why Beth-soft themselves did not create an MMO.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • InktomiInktomi merrick, NYPosts: 663Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Inktomi
    Originally posted by Distopia
     

    Two things, first it isn't bethesda making this game they make SP games, and by todd Howards own words that's what they'll stick to, second they weren't bought out by EA.

    Zenimax (Media) owns Bethesda, Arkane, Id and Zenimax Studios. The TES IP is all owned under one roof. So the powers that be at the top of Zenimax will probably not want their online version of the game released* without the same level of quality that the SP games were made.

    I certainly would hope so, my point was about the lack of similarities between the TOR situation and this one. To be specific i do not think a failure here would come back to haunt the TES franchise as a whole, i think that's half the reason they've created a studio as they have, not to mention why Beth-soft themselves did not create an MMO.

    We are talking about different companies and different IP's. Matt Firor runs ZO Studios and he was an integral part in* the creation of Dark Age of Camelot when he was with Mythic Entertainment. We know how the MMOG community feels about DAoC. One of the many reasons why I am personally backing TESO.

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon

    Because this game really has no relation to the console titles other than IP/lore.   You are talking about a MMORPG where hundreds of thousands of people will play at the same time ... and you dont want to (focus) on them fighting?   I dont see them ignoring that.

    You have no option to fight another person in stand-alone version so the concept of PvP was pointless.

     

    image
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by Karteli

    PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

     

    PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

     

    PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

     

    Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

     

    My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

    PvP doesnt discriminate... If you know the insides and out of the charater your playing an your foe just as equally, knowing the habits of foe and timing.. you can defeat your opponent.

    However PvE, going against a controlled AI knowing the insides and outs of the Bosses abilities you can win BUT you still have to deal with the politics and rules set up by the guild that is running the raid... thus creating situations where one could win the roll for an item but still NOT gain said item.

    Having that chance to win an item is part of the thrill though.  DKP came about because of such scenarios, but it was the gamers who derived the system, and the players that accepted it.  Players who participated more, won more.  That is a sustainable mechanic, and one created by players too.

     

    Casuals didn't like DKP though, because they can't / won't play often enough to get integrated into a guild.  But they still want to be the hero in an MMORPG.  /sigh

     

    PVP offers instant gratification, which (sadly to me) satisfies their gaming needs, which are more short term than long term.  Every PVP game has suffered, unless your name is League of Legends.  But an MMORPG that depends on progression can't exactly get LoL players...

     

    MMORPG's are pretty much founded on "build-me-up" characters.  Doesn't mesh well with PVP.

     

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    ESO has nothing to do with Elder Scrolls besides the lore. You may as well forget ESO even has the Elder Scrolls title, if you don't you're only setting yourself up for disappointing. It's developed by a separate studio, that has not made an Elder Scrolls game, headed by someone that has never made an Elder Scrolls game (you'll find this theme a lot). Approach it like an entirely new game, because that's exactly what it is. Make no mistake, this is an MMO that had already been developed on paper, with the Elder Scrolls name tacked on to get the fans interested. That's going to be their downfall, the game sounds good on its own but no matter how many times they tell people not to, fans are going to approach this like an MMO version of Skyrim, and it couldn't be further from that.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • SirBalinSirBalin Joppa, MDPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon
    Love seeing the care and bears qq about things like this.  They have made tons of pve games, now they want to make  ONE pvp game and you guys are upset?  Really?  They have made solo games for the pvers that are great...whats wrong with trying something new.  Great idea imo.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli

    PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

     

    PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

     

    PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

     

    Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

     

    My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

    That haven of casuals outnumbers all of the other AAA MMOs combined.  No PvP focused MMO has ever come close to the numbers exhibited by EverQuest or World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XI.  Some of the posters in this topic have it backwards.  MMORPGs were meant to be primarily PvE.  We have ample proof that games do very well indeed without PvP.  I have no interest in this game, even before all of this PvP tripe.  The combat mechanics alone turned me away.  I'm very much looking forward to the strictly PvE game called EverQuest Next.  It won't surprise me in the least if it eclipses all of the PvP centric games out there.

    image
  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    ESO has nothing to do with Elder Scrolls besides the lore. You may as well forget ESO even has the Elder Scrolls title, if you don't you're only setting yourself up for disappointing. It's developed by a separate studio, that has not made an Elder Scrolls game, headed by someone that has never made an Elder Scrolls game (you'll find this theme a lot). Approach it like an entirely new game, because that's exactly what it is. Make no mistake, this is an MMO that had already been developed on paper, with the Elder Scrolls name tacked on to get the fans interested. That's going to be their downfall, the game sounds good on its own but no matter how many times they tell people not to, fans are going to approach this like an MMO version of Skyrim, and it couldn't be further from that.

    Please plese stop spreading misinformation, and go watch the podcast, videos and read their informations again.  All you have done is thrown out a ton of opinion and not enough facts.   To the point I thought you were joking cause I've been following this game from the beginning, done comparisons, of the core game mechanics, gameplay, combat, etc and they all indicate what an Elder scrolls game would be if it was online which is ESO.  

     

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,117Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laross
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    ESO has nothing to do with Elder Scrolls besides the lore. You may as well forget ESO even has the Elder Scrolls title, if you don't you're only setting yourself up for disappointing. It's developed by a separate studio, that has not made an Elder Scrolls game, headed by someone that has never made an Elder Scrolls game (you'll find this theme a lot). Approach it like an entirely new game, because that's exactly what it is. Make no mistake, this is an MMO that had already been developed on paper, with the Elder Scrolls name tacked on to get the fans interested. That's going to be their downfall, the game sounds good on its own but no matter how many times they tell people not to, fans are going to approach this like an MMO version of Skyrim, and it couldn't be further from that.

    Please plese stop spreading misinformation, and go watch the podcast, videos and read their informations again.  All you have done is thrown out a ton of opinion and not enough facts.   To the point I thought you were joking cause I've been following this game from the beginning, done comparisons, of the core game mechanics, gameplay, combat, etc and they all indicate what an Elder scrolls game would be if it was online which is ESO.  

     

    Agreed and that's why the OP has a right to be upset.  The online version will be very much like the single player games, only bastardized into a PvP centric piece of crap.

    image
  • bobm111bobm111 RobertsforsPosts: 153Member

    lets at least be honest. the rvr heros and wannabe pvpers are trying to hi-jack a game which has its roots in morrowind and its follow ups. none were pvp.... but pve and lore rich.

    And now a studio is making a game which has nothing to do with elder scrolls real story so please change it to doac 2 or something.

    Otherwise you will be destroying a great game with a great history and lore.

    Make this a mmorpg

    based on its roots and history with a entire world to explore and a myriad of races and opportunities

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Eletheryl

    You have a lot of good PvE MMOs out there, The PvP in the MMO world is like the final frontier to conquer and the PvP population is just insanelly huge, the game who reach that ¨PvP frontier¨   will have them all. 

    This is RvR, which is a subsection of PvP.  They don't have world PvP or PvP matches which would be a large chunk of that 'insanly huge" PvP population.

    Subsection? Are you crazy? First realms go to war, then you are sent to fight that war.

    First RvR, then PvP. RvR = mass people vs mass people, then PvP - player vs player

    Oh and those laughable "arena" matches you speak of... that shouldnt even take place, unless they make a Colosseum somewhere and it should not be "queued" you should shit down and await your turn. We actually used to do this in DAoC... and it was all player-organized and everybody respected it... members from all three realms would sit in a pre-determinded region in the frontiers and wait their turn while others were having their fight inside the "ring". Or you could just go there and watch... but that takes a bit more mature audience to pull this off, since, again, it was all player organized.

    Anyway RvR is at the top of the "pvp hierarchy" because its not about you, but about your faction as a whole. Stop thinking about yourself or what you can get from it - think bigger...

    “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”

    World PvP was first in MMOs, then came DAoC RvR.  There are different kinds of PvP just like there are different types of PvE.  They are only focusing on RvR combat.  There is no PvP hierarchy.

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bobm111

    lets at least be honest. the rvr heros and wannabe pvpers are trying to hi-jack a game which has its roots in morrowind and its follow ups. none were pvp.... but pve and lore rich.

    And now a studio is making a game which has nothing to do with elder scrolls real story so please change it to doac 2 or something.

    Otherwise you will be destroying a great game with a great history and lore.

    Make this a mmorpg

    based on its roots and history with a entire world to explore and a myriad of races and opportunities

    One correction in your statment, the studio which is working on the game is under one company which owns both Bethesda and zenimax.  Both companies are working closely together to create a game that has Lore that is very specific to the Elders scrolls world, Bethesda has its hand in everything except for High level decisions which is done my Zenimax's lead designer/Pvp designer.  

    I may have interpreted your statement differently but just in case ill leave it.  If its wrong I apologize ahead of time.

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