[Column] General: Tingle's Touchy Subjects: MMORPGs

SBFord · February 2013

In a new column debuting today at MMORPG.com, Adam Tingle takes on some of the genre's most over-discussed or completely avoided topics and dissects them in front of a live audience. See what he's got to say in his inaugural column and then head to the comments to continue the discussion.

So why are we here? Well, in lieu of starting this piece by urinating on a World of Warcraft Battle Chest, this is a place where I will air my online gripes, groans, and grumbles; it is a veritable soapbox where I, King of the Snark, will say and do the bad thing: if said bad thing is about level caps, PvP, and swords of +112 strength.

What I'm saying is: I'm the making the words that really count.

Read more of Adam Tingle's Tingle's Touchy Subjects: MMORPGs.

NoizMchn · February 2013

Yep

Aeonblades · February 2013

The MMORPG of yesteryear is dead and gone my friends.

Nyadach · February 2013

Very true. Ultima Online was awsome, and the mechanics are things which even today the big MMO companies haven't copied. True freedom, painful death (yes these days everyone is a pansy in this reguard unless you look at Eve who's possibly the closest but that's a pretty old MMO itself now), and the freedom for the player to shape the world to them. Anarchy Online was a close attempt but without the complexities of UO. But since then the MMO landscape has been sadly bland.

Can still remember my first guild leader in UO stealing my boat which I was living off since at the time couldn't afford a house and had saved up for ages for...but in those days, the world was cruel, no care bear nature. It was shaped by the people around you.

RefMinor · February 2013

Lets hope the genre moves in that direction, indications are vaguely hopeful.

BitterClinger · February 2013

Ok, while I agree with the general sentiment; I have to say we REALLY need to stop with the rose-colored remembrances of some of the old games.

Ultima Online was fantastic. I really liked many things about it. The reason I quit playing was:

Blue healers
Gameplay-killing interface problems (e.g. two guys attack your friend and spam a wall of text while doing so - you can't target your friend through the text)
Play-crushing lag around houses, which were everywhere
Stupid bugs (e.g. enter another player's house as ghost, get friend or wandering healer to rez you through wall, open door from inside house, steal everything from house)
Macroing
Entirely hackable client-server communications

So, no. I don't want to return to those days.

RefMinor · February 2013

Originally posted by BitterClinger
Ok, while I agree with the general sentiment; I have to say we REALLY need to stop with the rose-colored remembrances of some of the old games.

Ultima Online was fantastic. I really liked many things about it. The reason I quit playing was:

Blue healers

Gameplay-killing interface problems (e.g. two guys attack your friend and spam a wall of text while doing so - you can't target your friend through the text)

Play-crushing lag around houses, which were everywhere

Stupid bugs (e.g. enter another player's house as ghost, get friend or wandering healer to rez you through wall, open door from inside house, steal everything from house)

Macroing

Entirely hackable client-server communications

So, no. I don't want to return to those days.

I don't think people are calling for old bugs to be re-introduced just some of the old concepts.

nuttob · February 2013

I would have to agree with you on some titles like SWTOR and Tera, but GW2 in particular is nothing but exploring and immersion for me. Beyond your level limit in GW2 you can go anywhere you want. Yes, it's formulated to a certain extent, but much more open ended than most MMORPG's. I played EQ1 for years, and yes it's extremely open ended, but I just found myself grinding monsters over an over again just to get to the next area to grind some more. Secret World is somewhere in between on this, but the ambience, suspense in certain areas, and the mysteries you have to solve really make that game unique and imaginative to me. I don't think lack of imagination applies at all to Secret World.

BigHatLogan · February 2013

I agree with the article. I hate grinding quests. I hate grinding mobs. Those tasks are invariably boring as hell. I could care less what kind of reward I get it will only make me angry when i realize that I have been tricked into doing all this boring gameplay in order to get some virtual advancement. Then I will quit. If people like these type of games then I guess good for them. I won't be playing themepark games ever again.

There are titles that do not follow the quest grinder/dungeon raider/gear treadmill design, though they don't seem to be as popular as the AAA Pavlovian nightmares. I'd suggest that those dissatisfied with the genre expand their horizons and check out some of the titles out there that are doing something different.

EVE

Age of Wushu

Wizardry Online

Salem

Wurm

Minecraft

Day Z

and more...

FromHell · February 2013

The market is WAY over saturated.

Seriously. No new MMOs should come out for at least 5 years. Attention span has decreased to an absolute minimum.

The MMO hopping needs to stop.

RemyVorender · February 2013

Your prose is like trying to read sentences written upon broken glass, but after suffering through your first few paragraphs, I agree with much of what you said.

erictlewis · February 2013

Yes the good old days of everquest, and eq2 are gone. Most of the games we get now days are wow with a different candy wrapper on. A lot of games tote inovation, while it is the same old thing with just a tad bit diferent ui and or tree alignment chart for specials.

I not seen anything thats has inovation, not even swtor was inovative.

I don't know how we are goign to get devs to get out of the rut, they are still copy/paste games from 5 years ago and give it to us again.

Zooce · February 2013

I enjoyed this article. It was well-written, held my attention, and caused numerous smirks.

Sovrath · February 2013

[mod edit]

I sort of agree.

It was the "genitals" remark that got me thinking "do any adults write mmo articles?" I would love mmorpg.com to have more serious and insightful articles. I don't mind if they are opinion pieces but I would really love to read something that didn't include remarks that feel like they came from "kids" all "tee-heeing" in the corner.

sorry Adam, I really don't mean to insult you but it just seems so crass. You have a soapbox where you can really shine. Urinating and genitals jokes seem like they come from kids instead of a burgeoning game journalist.

Squeak69 · February 2013

*APPLAUDS*

i agree completly

Lobotomist · February 2013

Excellent article. Unfortunately I think its to late for MMORPG genre

jtcgs · February 2013

we didnt lose the trust of the developers, most developers today came in listening to one big ego (Raph Koster) tell them players dont know what they want and that Developers are supposed to tell them.

You cant lose something you never had and the only way players can get that trust is to STOP BUYING AND PAYING for thier games. Consumers drive the market, stop consuming and force a change...it can be done, its been done in the past, just look at EQ2. Koster got fired and was replaced and the company pushed out two quick expansions to give the players what they were demanding and it saved the game.

shakermaker0 · February 2013

Tingle here.

I thought those remarks were funny. : [ Message received, less of the toilet humour.

BCuse · February 2013

loved the article! what we need is to build on the sucessful things from the old games not run away from them. i havnt found an mmorpg to play since swg shut down.

Aeolyn · February 2013

I agree that most mmorpgs seem to have lost that immersive feeling, that thing that kept many of us playing and paying monthly subs for our first games(virtual homes) for upwards of ten years or longer.

I personally blame the cash stores for much of that(it's very hard to get attached to something you don't have to work for) and in the few games left that still haven't resorted to those, the need to satisfy the never ending greediness of shareholders by releasing beta products and catering to only endgame players, thus driving away any new blood as well as the subscribers that are willing to pay for years for the journey instead of rushing to endgame in a few weeks/months and then crying boredom before quitting and moving their sub to a new game.

What I have recently done to combat that sense of loss is return to my first virtual home as a newbie, no gold, no friends, a clean slate. It's been a real breath of fresh air and although the mechanics of the ui is quite challenging(i need to relearn how to do macros so i can use my wasd keys instead of just my mouse) I have been enjoying it so much that I have resubbed. Who says you can't go home!?

KenFisher · February 2013

Didn't get a chance to read the whole article but: "Because in all honesty, most MMOs nowadays are no more involved than an ordinary offline RPGs" is a hint that I'm very much going to enjoy your columns.

Looking forward to more in the future.

Senadina · February 2013

Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by BitterClinger
Ok, while I agree with the general sentiment; I have to say we REALLY need to stop with the rose-colored remembrances of some of the old games.

Ultima Online was fantastic. I really liked many things about it. The reason I quit playing was:

Blue healers

Gameplay-killing interface problems (e.g. two guys attack your friend and spam a wall of text while doing so - you can't target your friend through the text)

Play-crushing lag around houses, which were everywhere

Stupid bugs (e.g. enter another player's house as ghost, get friend or wandering healer to rez you through wall, open door from inside house, steal everything from house)

Macroing

Entirely hackable client-server communications

So, no. I don't want to return to those days.

I don't think people are calling for old bugs to be re-introduced just some of the old concepts.

But that is part and parcel of the "rose-colored glasses" mentality. If an innovative game launched today with bugs and crap UI, like Ultima did, people would ring it's death knell instantly. No one would give it the time to discover it's unique world. But because it was the only MMO game in town, and the first MMO for many, it is given much nostalgic leeway. Face it, NO MMO is going to grab you like your first. The first love is always the sweetest.

Calerxes · February 2013

What a horrible rose coloured cliche of an article..... wait a minute!!

But seriously do we need an article outlinning what every bitter vet or old git bangs on about every day on these and every forum on t'internet, isn't it just a form of incestious naval gazing? we know the world was fantastic back in [insert date] and we were all better off we get it, now what ya gonna do about it? instead off banging on about it put all that whinging energy into something creative, wouldn't that be a much better idea?

RefMinor · February 2013

Originally posted by Senadina
But that is part and parcel of the "rose-colored glasses" mentality. If an innovative game launched today with bugs and crap UI, like Ultima did, people would ring it's death knell instantly. No one would give it the time to discover it's unique world. But because it was the only MMO game in town, and the first MMO for many, it is given much nostalgic leeway. Face it, NO MMO is going to grab you like your first. The first love is always the sweetest.

And yet in other genres, people don't hark back to better times, no one goes on about how CIV IV doesn't have the depth of CIV I, no one wants to go back to Wolfenstein when they can play a modern shooter. People hark back to older MMOs because they have mechanisms that added depth and immersion whilst that is something that has been lost from modern MMOs.

Yes the bugs are overlooked in the memory, but no one is asking for the bugs to come back, they want old mechanisms with modern polish.

BeansnBread · February 2013

Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Senadina
But that is part and parcel of the "rose-colored glasses" mentality. If an innovative game launched today with bugs and crap UI, like Ultima did, people would ring it's death knell instantly. No one would give it the time to discover it's unique world. But because it was the only MMO game in town, and the first MMO for many, it is given much nostalgic leeway. Face it, NO MMO is going to grab you like your first. The first love is always the sweetest.

And yet in other genres, people don't hark back to better times, no one goes on about how CIV IV doesn't have the depth of CIV I, no one wants to go back to Wolfenstein when they can play a modern shooter. People hark back to older MMOs because they have mechanisms that added depth and immersion whilst that is something that has been lost from modern MMOs.

Yes the bugs are overlooked in the memory, but no one is asking for the bugs to come back, they want old mechanisms with modern polish.

People did go on about how Civ IV didn't live up to Civ III. There was a major outpouring of disgruntled Civ III fans after it's release. A vocal minority, sure. But not unlike the vocal minority found here.

Calerxes · February 2013

Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Senadina
But that is part and parcel of the "rose-colored glasses" mentality. If an innovative game launched today with bugs and crap UI, like Ultima did, people would ring it's death knell instantly. No one would give it the time to discover it's unique world. But because it was the only MMO game in town, and the first MMO for many, it is given much nostalgic leeway. Face it, NO MMO is going to grab you like your first. The first love is always the sweetest.

And yet in other genres, people don't hark back to better times, no one goes on about how CIV IV doesn't have the depth of CIV I, no one wants to go back to Wolfenstein when they can play a modern shooter. People hark back to older MMOs because they have mechanisms that added depth and immersion whilst that is something that has been lost from modern MMOs.

Yes the bugs are overlooked in the memory, but no one is asking for the bugs to come back, they want old mechanisms with modern polish.

Are you happy in lala land?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B003ELORWE/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

There's was a thread on here with a map of Doom and one of MW2 and the difference in complexity which result in old git gamers banging on about how Doom and old FPS' were so much better. You get this in the RTS world Total Annihilation anyone? mention Gothic 1, Balders Gate, Fall Out 1, Half Life and what about D3 to D2 etc etc.. and you get gamers going all misty eyed.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B0030DH9R6/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

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