So sick of this "I payed money so i am more entitled then you are" bullshit mentality.
If a game is being touted as a F2P game, they the free players have just as much right to an enjoyable experience as the ones who wanted that cool looking hat.
And from a business standpoint, its the free players the games WANTS to listen to, as they obviously won over the other players who bought something, but its the free players they need to entice into actually becoming a paying player. Ignoring your free players, and more importantly letting your community of self-righteous, self-entitled players that dropped money antagonize and belittle your free players is the fastest way to build a wall to potential new paying costumers.
Let me see if I understand this...
People who pay for their entertainment are "self entitled" and "self righteous".
People who do not pay for their entertainment are the ones businesses should cater to because they might spend money.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I said NO, but only because of the lack of an other option. The truth is, if you live in America at least, you have the right to complain...no matter what. However, it doesn't make it right to complain. If you aren't spending a dime for the game, and you have a choice to play it or not, then you shouldn't complain. It really is uncouth to do so.
In Asia upwards of 10% may pay for a game. In the western markets, it is more like 5%. F2P developers/publisers realize that the vast majority of players are NEVER going to pay anything for the game. Because they except that, they cater to the 5-10% that are going to pay, and provide them with the goods and services that will cover the cost of the game.
Feedback from free players is just general feedback on the game. It has merit, but may not have relevance. Feedback from the paying players has relevance, as they are the lifeblood of the game. Free players are needed to provide the MMO atmosphere and content that draws the paying players. The more active and engaged free players you have, the more likely you are to draw in those paying players.
Life is never going to be fair for the free players. The paying players will always have it better (that is what they are paying for). Complaints about this imbalance may be valid, but they are not really relavant. They only become relevant when the imbalance becomes too large and it causes a decrease in the free players (which will eventually cause a decrease in the paying players).
A good F2P game keeps the game imbalanced just enough to justify the money that the paying players are spending, but not enough to drive away the free players.
What kind of F2P games are you talking about ? I think that the amount of free to paying customers varies a lot from game to game but also what model is on offer. I have played two hybrid models extensively and to me it seemed that as a rough estimate the majority of players do not pay anything (60%-70% in ToR let's say), but they also do not get above a certain level.
At higher levels, I have had a hard time finding totally free players in ToR, in fact I can't recall seeing any so far beyond level 40. The amount of players seems to go down a lot when I compare Hoth (Imp side) to Korriban. By Hoth, almost everyone has paid something because they have legacy and other titles in their name. In contrast, most players have no titles on Korriban. I would guess that one in five players there have paid something just as a ballpark figure. Most players are low level as in under level 25. I noticed that totally free players virtually disappear by the time one gets to Tatooine.
In EQ2, it is harder to tell. I guess I could do a study to find out over the course of several months who is paying a sub, who has paid à la carte, and who is completely free, but that is a lot of work. All I can say is that from my experience, most totally free players do not get beyond mid-game before they either stop or pay something, even if it is for a Silver membership. I am guessing it is not too dissimilar from ToR.
Those are the only two hybrid games I have played. However, in GW2, which is B2P, if we take people who have paid nothing more than box price, I think the numbers would shoot way up to around your figure for Western players. I don't know of many people who have paid extra money on GW2.
It would be interesting to get better figures across many games to get a better idea of this.
No, however, I think it is wise to treat them well enough to keep them playing. Free players can still make a world feel populated and basically add free social / player content.
52% said yes...they have a right to complain...guess what, you only get what you paid for..did'nt pay shit? you get shit...you'd think ppl would know this by now because nothing is free...except garbage
So sick of this "I payed money so i am more entitled then you are" bullshit mentality.
If a game is being touted as a F2P game, they the free players have just as much right to an enjoyable experience as the ones who wanted that cool looking hat.
And from a business standpoint, its the free players the games WANTS to listen to, as they obviously won over the other players who bought something, but its the free players they need to entice into actually becoming a paying player. Ignoring your free players, and more importantly letting your community of self-righteous, self-entitled players that dropped money antagonize and belittle your free players is the fastest way to build a wall to potential new paying costumers.
Let me see if I understand this...
People who pay for their entertainment are "self entitled" and "self righteous".
People who do not pay for their entertainment are the ones businesses should cater to because they might spend money.
Emphasis on the highlight LOL!
But the F2P scheme relies on the few paying customers forking alot of money out to carry the whole game. Paying customers carry the entire playerbase. That is undeniable.
Who's word is more important? The guy that pays you money? Or the guy that doesn't? I dunno...
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I am quite happy they come on here and complain, I do not think they should complain on official forums, but does not bother me really. Only when they complain ingame in chat, that is taking the piss a bit.
No real reasoning behind this, the farce of someone who is paying nothing and complaining just seems more immediate when you are online I guess.
Free players are just another game asset. Remember hearing those complaints, 'No one is playing this game', and 'I'd play it , but it has no population.'?
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
1) Players who can afford to pay for all the bells and whistles are going to kick my butt in pvp. They are going to level faster, acquire more gold, and generally have all the best stuff. Both in-game items and cash shop items.
2) The player base in most F2P games is similar to me, ie: spends some money once in a while but not much or often.
3) P2W games should be avoided by all players, they are nothing more than black holes for IRL cash.
4) P2W=overwhelmingly stacked in favor of players who spend IRL money, often and a lot of money at any one time.
F2P=favors players who spend IRL money, but not so much that a free player stands no chance, ever.
5) Players who support the game/dev/publisher monitarily [i]should[/i] have the advantage over someone whos' support of the game may not always be monitary.
Overall: Yes, free players [b]do[/b] have the "right" to complain about a game. But free players shouldn't expect to not have to put in real hours of grinding to be able to compete with the paying customers. Yes, you get out what you put in.
EVERYONE has the right to complain about anything they wish to complain about; it is up to others whether they acknowledge those complaints or not.
I, for example, am well within my rights to complain about games I've never played. It is up to others to scrutinise my complaints to see if they hold any value. If they disagree with them, they can discard them or question them. If they agree with them, they can echo them.
If a game is really free to play and most aren't then of course people have a right to object to having their time wasted. That's the catch. Nothing is free. It's surprising people can't figure that out.
So sick of this "I payed money so i am more entitled then you are" bullshit mentality.
If a game is being touted as a F2P game, they the free players have just as much right to an enjoyable experience as the ones who wanted that cool looking hat.
And from a business standpoint, its the free players the games WANTS to listen to, as they obviously won over the other players who bought something, but its the free players they need to entice into actually becoming a paying player. Ignoring your free players, and more importantly letting your community of self-righteous, self-entitled players that dropped money antagonize and belittle your free players is the fastest way to build a wall to potential new paying costumers.
Let me see if I understand this...
People who pay for their entertainment are "self entitled" and "self righteous".
People who do not pay for their entertainment are the ones businesses should cater to because they might spend money.
Hee hee, yeah, that guy has fail logic.
Business sense says that you try to attract free players and intice them to pay, but that you retain your paying players as much as you can. You have to juggle keeping both groups happy enough, but when push comes to shove, you try to keep your already paying customers happy.
After all, there is nothing to say that a paying customer stops paying and goes somewhere else if unhappy with a game. It is not like once you pay the company, your contract is written in blood and you forever more must continue to fork out money to it.
It is pretty clear to me that the companies do care when paying customers leave. Otherwise, why would they send survey forms everytime one cancels a subscription ? As a froob, you don't even get that chance of feedback. In fact, you get no customer support at all.
I did vote "yes" in this pole though because froobs can give valid input to a company stating why they do not support the game. The game could be hideously buggy to the point of being unfun to play : anyone has the right to complain about that.
Froobs in my view have the right to complain some about prices in the cash shop.
However, I do not think froobs have the right to complain about restrictions imposed, or the content, or the direction of the game.
I would also like to finish by saying that paying customers and froobs need each other, and one person can be a froob in one game and a paying customer in another. So in response to jedensuscg, being a paying customer has nothing to do with self-entitement or self-righteousness. You should instead thank those people who pay for the game you play because they are in fact subsidising you. If no one paid, there would be no gaming industry.
To me, a free player has the right to complain about things that actually do not work, bugs, and abject failures of implementation. A free player IS still a player, and their presence helps to keep other paying players because they are a form of content. If I am playing a game free, I -want- to give them money because that's my mindset (I predominantly prefer subscriptions). The things I may say will be directed towards big sticking points that may be preventing me from giving them money.
I do not think that free players have the right to complain about the content, however. They are being given the content free of charge and have no right to displace paying players with their demands no matter how many people may agree with them. Sometimes there is a fine line between the two, and those are really a case-by-case example (for instance: if 3/4 of the content is closed to a f2p player, then I don't think that them saying that that is unacceptable is a bad thing. On the other hand, if only 1/4 of the content is closed, then they've overstepped their right in my opinion. My personal cut-off point is somewhere around half.)
I do think that free players should be welcomed and even encouraged to post reasonable suggestions, however. Perhaps even incentivized (minimally).
Yes Especially when they have already put money into the game and feel screwed over.
Take TERA for an example some of my clan members debate me on why they like TERA couple of players asked once if I played I told them no and why.
Enmasse mislead me as a consumer and buying player $100 for their collectors edition 2 months subscription all to be ripped off by paid account services and still being ripped off as a F2P consumer even if I am willing to pay they want me to pay per character customization change I refuse to play any games that want to change me a subscription + fee to change hairs and such I will pay for DLC but not per change for example hair and cosmetic unlocks to be used account wide.
Free players are part of paying players experience (teammates for the dungeon, kills for pvp, etc), thus contribute for the positive experience for paying customers and to fill the world, making them being fully able to complain. And it was mentioned, valid critisism should not matter on the source.
Simple question inspired by the "Free players get what they deserve" thread.
I'll weigh in on this one. No they do not.
Is it a free to play game? Did the devs target free players when they gave free players the option to play? If so, I can hardly see how anyone could say that they don't have a right to complain. After all, that's the game's target audience.
Simple question inspired by the "Free players get what they deserve" thread.
I'll weigh in on this one. No they do not.
First problem ... thread title is DIFFERENT then question for pool. In title you speak about complaining about ANYTHING, but this very very important word is missing from question in pool. So - imo - free players have all right to complain about game, gameplay, ... but have no right about *anything*.
I complained about a F2P games back a couple of pages ago, and no angry god smited me down. So yeah, the question is moot. I will complain about games whenever i want to.
Comments
They obvious don't want everyone to pay. Otherwise, there will be no F2P games.
What they want is more total profits. Who and how many are paying is not that relevant.
Let me see if I understand this...
People who pay for their entertainment are "self entitled" and "self righteous".
People who do not pay for their entertainment are the ones businesses should cater to because they might spend money.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
What kind of F2P games are you talking about ? I think that the amount of free to paying customers varies a lot from game to game but also what model is on offer. I have played two hybrid models extensively and to me it seemed that as a rough estimate the majority of players do not pay anything (60%-70% in ToR let's say), but they also do not get above a certain level.
At higher levels, I have had a hard time finding totally free players in ToR, in fact I can't recall seeing any so far beyond level 40. The amount of players seems to go down a lot when I compare Hoth (Imp side) to Korriban. By Hoth, almost everyone has paid something because they have legacy and other titles in their name. In contrast, most players have no titles on Korriban. I would guess that one in five players there have paid something just as a ballpark figure. Most players are low level as in under level 25. I noticed that totally free players virtually disappear by the time one gets to Tatooine.
In EQ2, it is harder to tell. I guess I could do a study to find out over the course of several months who is paying a sub, who has paid à la carte, and who is completely free, but that is a lot of work. All I can say is that from my experience, most totally free players do not get beyond mid-game before they either stop or pay something, even if it is for a Silver membership. I am guessing it is not too dissimilar from ToR.
Those are the only two hybrid games I have played. However, in GW2, which is B2P, if we take people who have paid nothing more than box price, I think the numbers would shoot way up to around your figure for Western players. I don't know of many people who have paid extra money on GW2.
It would be interesting to get better figures across many games to get a better idea of this.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Emphasis on the highlight LOL!
But the F2P scheme relies on the few paying customers forking alot of money out to carry the whole game. Paying customers carry the entire playerbase. That is undeniable.
Who's word is more important? The guy that pays you money? Or the guy that doesn't? I dunno...
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I am quite happy they come on here and complain, I do not think they should complain on official forums, but does not bother me really. Only when they complain ingame in chat, that is taking the piss a bit.
No real reasoning behind this, the farce of someone who is paying nothing and complaining just seems more immediate when you are online I guess.
They have not put their money, where the mouth is..!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
As a (mostly) free player I understand:
1) Players who can afford to pay for all the bells and whistles are going to kick my butt in pvp. They are going to level faster, acquire more gold, and generally have all the best stuff. Both in-game items and cash shop items.
2) The player base in most F2P games is similar to me, ie: spends some money once in a while but not much or often.
3) P2W games should be avoided by all players, they are nothing more than black holes for IRL cash.
4) P2W=overwhelmingly stacked in favor of players who spend IRL money, often and a lot of money at any one time.
F2P=favors players who spend IRL money, but not so much that a free player stands no chance, ever.
5) Players who support the game/dev/publisher monitarily [i]should[/i] have the advantage over someone whos' support of the game may not always be monitary.
Overall: Yes, free players [b]do[/b] have the "right" to complain about a game. But free players shouldn't expect to not have to put in real hours of grinding to be able to compete with the paying customers. Yes, you get out what you put in.
EVERYONE has the right to complain about anything they wish to complain about; it is up to others whether they acknowledge those complaints or not.
I, for example, am well within my rights to complain about games I've never played. It is up to others to scrutinise my complaints to see if they hold any value. If they disagree with them, they can discard them or question them. If they agree with them, they can echo them.
Hee hee, yeah, that guy has fail logic.
Business sense says that you try to attract free players and intice them to pay, but that you retain your paying players as much as you can. You have to juggle keeping both groups happy enough, but when push comes to shove, you try to keep your already paying customers happy.
After all, there is nothing to say that a paying customer stops paying and goes somewhere else if unhappy with a game. It is not like once you pay the company, your contract is written in blood and you forever more must continue to fork out money to it.
It is pretty clear to me that the companies do care when paying customers leave. Otherwise, why would they send survey forms everytime one cancels a subscription ? As a froob, you don't even get that chance of feedback. In fact, you get no customer support at all.
I did vote "yes" in this pole though because froobs can give valid input to a company stating why they do not support the game. The game could be hideously buggy to the point of being unfun to play : anyone has the right to complain about that.
Froobs in my view have the right to complain some about prices in the cash shop.
However, I do not think froobs have the right to complain about restrictions imposed, or the content, or the direction of the game.
I would also like to finish by saying that paying customers and froobs need each other, and one person can be a froob in one game and a paying customer in another. So in response to jedensuscg, being a paying customer has nothing to do with self-entitement or self-righteousness. You should instead thank those people who pay for the game you play because they are in fact subsidising you. If no one paid, there would be no gaming industry.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
To me, a free player has the right to complain about things that actually do not work, bugs, and abject failures of implementation. A free player IS still a player, and their presence helps to keep other paying players because they are a form of content. If I am playing a game free, I -want- to give them money because that's my mindset (I predominantly prefer subscriptions). The things I may say will be directed towards big sticking points that may be preventing me from giving them money.
I do not think that free players have the right to complain about the content, however. They are being given the content free of charge and have no right to displace paying players with their demands no matter how many people may agree with them. Sometimes there is a fine line between the two, and those are really a case-by-case example (for instance: if 3/4 of the content is closed to a f2p player, then I don't think that them saying that that is unacceptable is a bad thing. On the other hand, if only 1/4 of the content is closed, then they've overstepped their right in my opinion. My personal cut-off point is somewhere around half.)
I do think that free players should be welcomed and even encouraged to post reasonable suggestions, however. Perhaps even incentivized (minimally).
Yes Especially when they have already put money into the game and feel screwed over.
Take TERA for an example some of my clan members debate me on why they like TERA couple of players asked once if I played I told them no and why.
Enmasse mislead me as a consumer and buying player $100 for their collectors edition 2 months subscription all to be ripped off by paid account services and still being ripped off as a F2P consumer even if I am willing to pay they want me to pay per character customization change I refuse to play any games that want to change me a subscription + fee to change hairs and such I will pay for DLC but not per change for example hair and cosmetic unlocks to be used account wide.
Is it a free to play game? Did the devs target free players when they gave free players the option to play? If so, I can hardly see how anyone could say that they don't have a right to complain. After all, that's the game's target audience.
First problem ... thread title is DIFFERENT then question for pool. In title you speak about complaining about ANYTHING, but this very very important word is missing from question in pool. So - imo - free players have all right to complain about game, gameplay, ... but have no right about *anything*.
Gosh .. we are still on this?
I complained about a F2P games back a couple of pages ago, and no angry god smited me down. So yeah, the question is moot. I will complain about games whenever i want to.