Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

This post tugged at my heart strings just a bit

Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member

so many memories coming back of what it was like to be new and inexperienced in games and all the help i received.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7864486403

tot his day i help out new players and don't kick people from groups due to errors and lack of experience. i can remember countless times someone helped me out in Asheron's Call way back in the day and that is what made me able to stick with it and become a great palyer myself. 

Comments

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 692Member Uncommon
    Thing is WoW is not a group game.  Players who started here will always suck.  They will roll a healer and never heal a group. They will roll tanks and never tank.  They will roll as crowd control and not even know what crowd control stands for.
    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by phantomghost
    Thing is WoW is not a group game.  Players who started here will always suck.  They will roll a healer and never heal a group. They will roll tanks and never tank.  They will roll as crowd control and not even know what crowd control stands for.

    Do not punish them for not knowing better. If it was a better game, it would train them to do their jobs properly and allow them opportunities to act as such without such drastic consequences. They have lost sight of what "new users" are. Their market has been saturated for some time now. The trees are blocking the light for the saplings to grow just as big and strong.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 692Member Uncommon

    Oh I agree, unfortunately the players themselves do not see an issue with being bad.  There is no downside to being a bad player. 

     

    Players who started their MMo gaming in this type of environment need to push themselves to be better and not rely on the group to do everything for them. 

     

    But it is hard to do when afking and trivial tasks such as talking to somebody next to the quest giver reward you with xp and good gear.  They do not have a strive to become better.

     

    Now if it was a game where you needed other players to advance, they would change their ways.  They would not go on the game and ruin their reputation.  They would either learn to play or just realize they will never get a group.  If they choose to play a healer they better learn how to heal if they want to advance in levels and gear.

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon

    Lovely story. I still reject anyone who doesn't meet some sort of standard. Being sorry doesn't make me feel bad for you, it just confirms to me how bad you are. 

    I'm not that kind of nice lovey dovey player. I played to kill bosses first and have a good time second.

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • PhynnPhynn Pheonixvile, PAPosts: 97Member
    This story is exactly why i refuse to raid in ANY game. Too many elitist people out there who think you should build your character a certainway, meet a certain dps requirement, heal a certain amount etc...This isnt their fault its the game companies putting in content that requires a certain health check, amount of mitigation, whatever, to be effective. Also the leveling experience has been made almost entirely soloable so most players do not get the necessary training before hitting max level. I am not saying that coordination and execution of raid dynamics should be easy but the jest of the encounters should be more execution of the mechanic.dynamic, then how much dps you can do in a certain amount of time. Make the encounters more engaging, challeneging but that doesnt mean we have to make it so that only elitist supreme gear'd players will be able to have success. I mean really if this is what mmos are coming to...elitist mentality...f' it I am going to just play orpg.
  • Venomizer2Venomizer2 Unknown, CAPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Phynn
    This story is exactly why i refuse to raid in ANY game. Too many elitist people out there who think you should build your character a certainway, meet a certain dps requirement, heal a certain amount etc...This isnt their fault its the game companies putting in content that requires a certain health check, amount of mitigation, whatever, to be effective. Also the leveling experience has been made almost entirely soloable so most players do not get the necessary training before hitting max level. I am not saying that coordination and execution of raid dynamics should be easy but the jest of the encounters should be more execution of the mechanic.dynamic, then how much dps you can do in a certain amount of time. Make the encounters more engaging, challeneging but that doesnt mean we have to make it so that only elitist supreme gear'd players will be able to have success. I mean really if this is what mmos are coming to...elitist mentality...f' it I am going to just play orpg.

    The raiding mentality is no different from organized school sports. Coop play to overcome challenges with finite resources and opportunity. its a competitive environment.

     

    In sports if you screw up you can expect your coach to yell at you. Some will/might belittle you and humiliate you. Its an inferior motivation method, but it is a motivational method.

     

    If you combine any standard of excellence with teamwork you will encounter these issues. There are better ways to handle failure, not belittling, but then if you reject raiders for sucking at healthy motivation, arent YOU being the elitist?

     

    You reject ppl who are scrubs at motivating properly. hmm.

     

    Personally I avoid them but its for toxic human interaction, not "elitism". Demanding excellence of yourself or others is not something to despise.

     

    I think what you are failing to understand, when you say its the devs fault for making gear checks so hard, is that raiders WANT it to be that hard. A lesser challenge means they would find a new game out of boredom. Competent focused ppl looking for challenge are not compatible with the "outcast warrior" in the story. They cant meet their own personal goals for playing their best and they cant meet their goals for coop play with him on their team. You cant time things perfectly in coop play all by yourself. Thats why its coop. Thats the point. If you could "win" all by yourself it wouldnt by a group/raid.

     

    Would you find a group dungeon worth entering if you could drag a group of 4 year olds thru it? While you are asking them to use a synergizing ability...they are looking out the window. You lose out on synergy they should have created and your own synergizing attempts fall flat on their face cuz  4 year olds cant harness it.

     

    The reason you think things are so hard is because you set your sights on rewards for hardcore raiders. Lower your gear expectations and timeline for killing content. Maybe you should play 1 expansion behind while utilitizing current abilities.

     

    Casual greed is just as much to blame as "hardcore making game too hard" when it comes to bastardizing the game.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member
    [mod edit]

     

     

  • KnutCupKnutCup Hinton, ABPosts: 21Member
    Atta go, couldn't have said it better myself.
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    [mod edit]
  • KnutCupKnutCup Hinton, ABPosts: 21Member

    You do know that the worst of the players always migrate to the Zerg Clans, protection in numbers, really works.

    And I have no problem with that, there is room for all.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member

    This was a very good read. I feel completely for him, and people that were mean to him are the reason I quit raiding after being a raid officer in WoW for 3 years.

    I haven't really touched any raids since except in casual guilds with groups of friendly people here and there, I can count the number of raids on 1 hand in 3 years, because I got tired of people thinking they were better than others.

    People need to step back and remember what it's like to be a new player. I remember starting EQ I was totally clueless and didn't know much about computers in general. If it wasn't for the first guild I found on Emarr, I never would of gotten into MMOs just because it was so confusing to me at the time.

    This story actually made me giddy a little, I haven't seen that level of kindness in any game since EQ, good for the players in Korea, I hope the trend continues :)

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Gaming has become very competitive, even when it isn't a competitive game.

     

    In LoL people get yelled at all the time because all that matters to others is winning and if a person isn't up to par then others hate on them. Nevermind the fact that the strongest players are in guilds with the strongest players to be competitive, but yet there's always that guy in a pug game who thinks he's awesome and all should kneel before him.

     

    For most gamers it seems MMOs, and all games, have become nothing but a goal to get the next/more rewards as fast as humanly possible. It isn't about playing, exploring, just plain having fun, and yes, failing now and then. It is about how quickly can we get more rewards, more dings.

     

    I stop playing in guilds many years ago because there was always drama about who sucked, who messed up, who didn't do what they should. This was both in MMOs, and FPS games. No, the person was typically not me, but I hate drama even when it is between two other people. So I started going solo.

     

    One thing I found fun though is to play an MMO, level up and then go back to lower zones and help random strangers get through dungeons that I knew were tough to get a pug for. It didn't gain me anything as the rewards were nothing to my level guy, but I enjoyed helping people through the parts I struggled with.

     

    I still do that in games. However, with each passing year it seems more people are only focused in the end result and not the journey. That in turn is making more people request MMOs be soloable through the whole thing, which in turn is destroying what an MMO is in the first place, a social experience.

     

    I find myself saying the phrase "It is just a game" or "it is only pixels" to angry people fairly often in video games, but those people never see it that way.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    I find myself saying the phrase "It is just a game" or "it is only pixels" to angry people fairly often in video games, but those people never see it that way.

    "What? I was told this would replace my life for a small monthly fee."

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • KendaneKendane Las Cruces, NMPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by Magnetia

    Lovely story. I still reject anyone who doesn't meet some sort of standard. Being sorry doesn't make me feel bad for you, it just confirms to me how bad you are. 

    I'm not that kind of nice lovey dovey player. I played to kill bosses first and have a good time second.

    O_o.....Soooooooo, raiding is about killing bosses, not about fun? Doesn't sound like a very good game to me.

  • iamthekilleriamthekiller Port Richey, FLPosts: 93Member

    For most people winning is fun...when you lose because of someone who is lazy or incompetent it is incredibly frustrating...For me whether I will help someone get better or not is totally dependent on them and their attitude. If they just don't have the capacity to learn what they are being taught...well not really my problem..I won't be mean or anything but im not gonna go out of my way to teach someone things I know they won't retain.  If this attitude makes me an elitist then so be it..but frankly I prefer a more relaxed attitude to raiding, thats why I only use LFR in wow...I don't have the time or motivation for hard raids anymore....I'm able to usually stir up the LFR group with comments in /instance...it's not the same as people on vent but it's still fun...

     

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

    reminds me of my days leading raids in WoW.

     

    i remember we had a married couple who were retired in our guild.  mage and priest.  one a retired nurse and one a retired teacher.  they lived in one of those 50 and older communities in FLA but instead of playing old-folks tennis or fishing all day they played wow.

     

    it took me a LONG time to get them to understand the basics of the game.  (partly, this is wow's fault because in Wow, you can max-level without being good at the game.  in EQ1 for examply you're forced to improve as you level) however it was time well spent for me.  I had fun teaching them and they had fun learning.  i got to know them and when i had to have an operation on my ankle the retired nurse kept better track of me than the folks at the actual hospital did.

     

    they learned where to go to learn the boss fights because they hadnt grown up playing games like we all did.  so they watched the fights intently and learned.

     

    sometimes, if we needed to fill out a final raid spot with a pug or a new guild applicant , if it was a new fight the retired couple would screw it once or twice, then get the hang of it, then the next one they'd be great.  it never ceased to have an effect on the applicants.  most folks thought it was so great that these two played wow together (and i know some got their folks to play too!  hehe)  some thought it was lame to help them (those didnt make it in our guild).  but the most overwhelming response was that it was so cool of US to be the ones helping the older couple along.  these folks soon learned that helping others to "get it" benefits the helper as much as the helpee.  (the dirty secret of doing nice things)

     

    now, i dont play Wow but i still contact the pair every now and then.

     

    PEOPLE > PIXELS.

     

    important lesson many of us need to learn.

     

    itch.

    (and grey and voleema if you're reading this hi :) )

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Venomizer2
    The raiding mentality is no different from organized school sports. Coop play to overcome challenges with finite resources and opportunity. its a competitive environment.In sports if you screw up you can expect your coach to yell at you. Some will/might belittle you and humiliate you. Its an inferior motivation method, but it is a motivational method.
    Yelling at someone is not kicking them off of the team. I had a football coach that liked saying, "As long as I am yelling at you, I have hope for you. When I stop yelling, you need to worry."

    Coaches in team sports try to help their players improve. Elitist raiders have no desire to help those who hinder their raids. They just boot them off of the raid. Many times, there is no yelling involved. Just a kick off of the team.

    Huge difference.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon

    i remember my first days in WoW.  running around on my warrior in my "Robes of Arugal" hitting monsters with my staff,  getting lost in UC,   asking people for help only to get abusive text written back.  after playing mmo's for a few years now people take for granted and seem to forget how complex they can be.  they seem simpler now but,  when you first start it's a lot to take in. 

    i feel for the guy but not becuase he wasn't accepted to any groups.  i feel for him becuase no one took the time to try to help him. 

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    I am in a 15 year old guild that crosses many games that will disagree with the very idea that people should be turned away because of skill and still have the ability to get enough people with skill together to steamroll most other guilds.

    But that would be because we are a guild of FRIENDS and not just people we USE in games and we have the leadership to know you need to appoint heads of groups. We may be A guild, but we are A guild with GROUPS. A Hardcore PvP group, a hardcore PvE group, a mild PvP group, a mild PvE group and a group of part-time/casuals. Each has 3 captians to report to, they report either to the commanders or the leader...all support each other. almost 500 of our members date back to SWG/DaoC and almost 100 of them go all the way back to UO when we were founded.

    We stayed this strong over the years for a reason, the guild is based on FRIENDSHIP, not advancement. We know a player will become better just by playing with friends that know how to play, know how to teach, and base all of that on fun. Fun is OUR driving force, advancement comes with it and so can be tossed aside.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magnetia

    Lovely story. I still reject anyone who doesn't meet some sort of standard. Being sorry doesn't make me feel bad for you, it just confirms to me how bad you are. 

    I'm not that kind of nice lovey dovey player. I played to kill bosses first and have a good time second.

    and then QQ all over the place when the game becomes a boring grinder because theres nothing else to do.

    Fun comes first any day.

    image
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon

    i think community is very important in mmos. People new to mmos dont know things. Rejecting them because they dont know how to play their characters is just bullshit. All these people being jerks about it where in the same shoes at some point. I keep leaving guilds when they recruit me with a fancy macro saying they are so nice and drama free and helpfull crap then all they do is the opossite.

    My friends in real life play WoW in private servers because WoW US is not supported in my native country (ip block in the caribbean) so i play alone in WoW US. When i join a friendly guild suddenly after a while im the only one loging in for months (when i sub for more than 1 month) so i have no reason to stay there.

    Ive witnessed tons of jerks in Pugs and the only 2 raids i tried in my WoW life. Both failed  because there were a lot of people doing it wrong. While some of them pretending they were the gods of raids, i just dont even bother with that anymore. Doing it wrong for the sake of trolling is bad. But lack of knowledge (maybe because players are new to raids or even to the game) is different and if they keep being rejected because they dont know how to raid, then how are they going to learn? Reading a guide doesnt teach you unless you practice it. If nobody gives you the chance, how the hell are you going to learn? Thats why i prefer to be around casual players. Learning while having fun

    image
  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    very sad story...

    I guess I got luck to be in guild and find friends who gave me clues about what/how to do.

    I also looked Wiki (as I do for any game) and youtube and such to see how people acting at raids.

    Well I was type average player: not elitist but not desperate either.

    I think first real problem I got when we failed at HM dungeon like 2 weeks after Cata release. Whole group started to argue, then they started to kick.
    I found it too hard to be to run around the boss to avoid his attacks and deal damage same time; also these days I got some sort of new lag, so failed hard.

    Like 1 week later I was better in many dungeons while kept fail in others. Fail resumed to lost of dungeon as I got or kicked or whole group got disbanded and I need like 40 more min to find next group, so I got frustrated and bored and left WoW.

    I don't know if game should add something like tutorial or simulation for fresh games, as before you done it X time, you gonna fail anyhow.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

    its actually kinda heart warming that the majority of the posts here are sympathetic with the "community/ people first" side of things and that the, well to be frank, jerks are in the minority.

     

    i knew there were good folks who still played these games :)

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • BigbadwlfBigbadwlf Philadelphia, PAPosts: 116Member

    As a former guild leader I myself have encountered this problem.  I've had a guild member, his first mmo, and he had no affinity for the game whatsoever, but he loved to play.  And as a guild leader I felt it was my responsibility to make sure all my guildies can enjoy the game.  But I didn't coddle him in my arms, I whooped his ass.  He asked for help and I did devote more time with him than most of my guildies, I never gave him a task that he could not do, or gave up on him when he asked for help.

    It was a bitter relationship because he asked for help but deep down I knew he wanted to be carried, and he hated that I never appeased him.  It was a bitter struggle fighting him, and fighting my own officers that wanted me to give up on him.  But then a miracle happened, this guy hit the level cap, with his own stength, it was a little victory but it was his victory.  He told me this was the first time that he stuck with a game long enough to hit the level cap, and I was really proud of him.  But more importantly, he was proud of himself.

    About 6 months later, after the guild disbanded (due to real life problems), he sent me an IM, telling me how he's in another guild now, and he's doing the high level content and is helping lower levels and he's highly respected among his guildies.  He told me I was the best guild leader he ever had, even though I had only been a guild leader for a short time.  It really warmed my heart.

    The moral of the story is that if you find a new player that needs help, give them love, but make it tough love!

  • WalterWhiteWalterWhite CardiffPosts: 394Member Uncommon

    Nice story and it does show that we as a whole can change some peoples attitudes in games but it isn't very often which is a shame. The worst part is that new gamers will soon start to act like the players the encounter ingame as that is all they see.

     

    image

Sign In or Register to comment.