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Should GW2 have kept more traditional mmo mechanics?

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Comments

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member

    Would I like it better personally? Yes.

    Would it be a better game? Probably not, it wasn't designed with traditional mechanics in mind.

     

    It fits a good medium of someone who wants the feel of an MMO but doesn't want an MMO in the true sense. It's good at what it does.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    They should have never made a mmo. They should have just expanded and innovated on how the original games were set up. Guild Wars was like the best anti mmo you could play. I played the original games for 5+ years for a reason. I also played Guild Wars 2 for like 30 hours for a reason as well. Catering to the casuals just dooms your game right from the very start in my opinion.
    30
  • BeelzebobbieBeelzebobbie MalmöPosts: 429Member

    I don't get why all the WOW players are here and always complaining on other games. Its pretty clear to me that if you still play WOW you are not looking for anything new and you probably never will so why are you here on this site? 

    Why not sit on a WOW forum and discuss how long you stand in stormwind everyday waiting in que for a dungeon thats gonna be a walk in the park in HC mode.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    They should have never made a mmo. They should have just expanded and innovated on how the original games were set up. Guild Wars was like the best anti mmo you could play. I played the original games for 5+ years for a reason. I also played Guild Wars 2 for like 30 hours for a reason as well. Catering to the casuals just dooms your game right from the very start in my opinion.

    Likewise, GW1 is one of my all-time favourite games.  

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

    I don't get why all the WOW players are here and always complaining on other games. Its pretty clear to me that if you still play WOW you are not looking for anything new and you probably never will so why are you here on this site? 

    Why not sit on a WOW forum and discuss how long you stand in stormwind everyday waiting in que for a dungeon thats gonna be a walk in the park in HC mode.

    No random guy 137, just no.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Beelzebobbie

    I don't get why all the WOW players are here and always complaining on other games. Its pretty clear to me that if you still play WOW you are not looking for anything new and you probably never will so why are you here on this site? 

    Why not sit on a WOW forum and discuss how long you stand in stormwind everyday waiting in que for a dungeon thats gonna be a walk in the park in HC mode.

    What WOW players are you referring to?  I don't play wow and haven't since TBC.  

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    They should have never made a mmo. They should have just expanded and innovated on how the original games were set up. Guild Wars was like the best anti mmo you could play. I played the original games for 5+ years for a reason. I also played Guild Wars 2 for like 30 hours for a reason as well. Catering to the casuals just dooms your game right from the very start in my opinion.

    I opened a couple 7 year birthday presents on some of my GW1 characters the other day. You're right about GW1, what a great game in it's own right. But still, GW2 is an amazing MMO. I've plenty of hours here and counting...

    image

     

    And still going strong. They've done so much right and so much better than the static, archaic MMO clones farting around out there in my opinion and that of many others. Yes, it's not GW1. It's also not WoW, Rift, SWToR, TSW, Hello Kitty Online or any of the others. It's GW2.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    Linear quest hubs are the devil.
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Left the game due to loot issues and permaDR not because of the game mechanics.

    The game mechanics in this title were actually the best gameplay in PVE I've ever experienced. Altho they could have made it easier to find events on the world map of the same zone you are in.

    Not worrying over running back to turn in quests in quest hubs was the best thing ever imo. As far as the roles thing, yeah that can be quite daunting when it comes to dungeon play. That's prolly why everyone is so frustrated with this now because the game was supposed to be all about DE metas and open world content but they decided to make it a dungeon focused game instead going back on 7 years of interview material about their philosophy in a single patch.

    All the Lrn2play arguments in the world won't change the fact that they lied to the public.

     

    I guess I'm half agreeing with you OP, only half tho.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    They should have never made a mmo. They should have just expanded and innovated on how the original games were set up. Guild Wars was like the best anti mmo you could play. I played the original games for 5+ years for a reason. I also played Guild Wars 2 for like 30 hours for a reason as well. Catering to the casuals just dooms your game right from the very start in my opinion.

    I opened a couple 7 year birthday presents on some of my GW1 characters the other day. You're right about GW1, what a great game in it's own right. But still, GW2 is an amazing MMO. I've plenty of hours here and counting...

    image

     

    And still going strong. They've done so much right and so much better than the static, archaic MMO clones farting around out there in my opinion and that of many others. Yes, it's not GW1. It's also not WoW, Rift, SWToR, TSW, Hello Kitty Online or any of the others. It's GW2.

    Agreed.  GW2 is like GW1 to me only with many of the improvements I wish the original had.  I also got some nice 7 year birthday presents.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Nah, it's good that they tried something different and that there are people who like what they tried.
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    They should have never made a mmo. They should have just expanded and innovated on how the original games were set up. Guild Wars was like the best anti mmo you could play. I played the original games for 5+ years for a reason. I also played Guild Wars 2 for like 30 hours for a reason as well. Catering to the casuals just dooms your game right from the very start in my opinion.

    I opened a couple 7 year birthday presents on some of my GW1 characters the other day. You're right about GW1, what a great game in it's own right. But still, GW2 is an amazing MMO. I've plenty of hours here and counting...

    image

     

    And still going strong. They've done so much right and so much better than the static, archaic MMO clones farting around out there in my opinion and that of many others. Yes, it's not GW1. It's also not WoW, Rift, SWToR, TSW, Hello Kitty Online or any of the others. It's GW2.

    Agreed.  GW2 is like GW1 to me only with many of the improvements I wish the original had.  I also got some nice 7 year birthday presents.

    It will be 8yrs for some of my characters in GW1 in April - can't wait to see what they give out....

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon

    I wish they had kept more of the skills ideas from GW1.  I also think they should have stuck to the more traditional MMO leveling/ability progression.  I think it would have been nice for them to consolidate the PVP/PVE experience into one experience.  I'm not  a fan of the game separation.

    But it's much easier to stay with tradition then it is to try something new, so I applaud them for that.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by grimal

    I wish they had kept more of the skills ideas from GW1.  I also think they should have stuck to the more traditional MMO leveling/ability progression.  I think it would have been nice for them to consolidate the PVP/PVE experience into one experience.  I'm not  a fan of the game separation.

    But it's much easier to stay with tradition then it is to try something new, so I applaud them for that.

    woohoo, this is me.  haha got monumental amount of shit for this thread.  I think GW1 did a lot right and GW2 undid a lot of that good work.  I miss, well I could list them, but almost everything I liked in GW1 is gone.  

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Nah, it's good that they tried something different and that there are people who like what they tried.

    Yea I agree 100%

     

    To further elaborate I might would have never tried GW2 if it was like a traditional MMO. They don't appeal to [me]

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member

    So far it has been a resounding 'no'.  Which is good because I am all for change unless the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' adage works.  

    My issue was simply, and I might have been misunderstood, I would prefer the game if it had defined roles and more immersion created by interaction with npc's rather than swimming over them.  

    Now, I understand it is not my game, I have quit.  I just wish that a game I was really looking forward to and liked was not ruined for me by many aspects of (imo) experimental gameplay.  

    Obviously there is vitriol from the 'this is my game of choice' camp, but it is not unreasonable to ask questions of a game you were looking forward to but which under delivered. 

    Basically I wanted GW1 part 2.  

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon

    I'd say no. There are enough MMOs with traditional mechanics, I want to see games trying new things, whether they end up succesful or not. If anyting I'd have liked GW2 to have some things back from GW1, like the need to use signets of capture to get elite skills.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • SafoSafo Marina, CAPosts: 46Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by grimal

    I wish they had kept more of the skills ideas from GW1.  I also think they should have stuck to the more traditional MMO leveling/ability progression.  I think it would have been nice for them to consolidate the PVP/PVE experience into one experience.  I'm not  a fan of the game separation.

    But it's much easier to stay with tradition then it is to try something new, so I applaud them for that.

    woohoo, this is me.  haha got monumental amount of shit for this thread.  I think GW1 did a lot right and GW2 undid a lot of that good work.  I miss, well I could list them, but almost everything I liked in GW1 is gone.  

    I have alot of friend who are of the exact same mindset.  They loved the hell out of GW1 and all that it had, the skills, the minions, pvp.. everything and GW2 they feel was a step backwards in many areas.  I think the only thing they can agree on that was an upgrade was the graphics. :)

  • ShrillyShrilly Citra, FLPosts: 376Member Common
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

    Sorry, but no thanks.

    And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

    AMEN SIR AMEN!!! when i read this post i looked JUST LIKE YOUR AVATAR!!! LMFAO

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Shrilly
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

    Sorry, but no thanks.

    And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

    AMEN SIR AMEN!!! when i read this post i looked JUST LIKE YOUR AVATAR!!! LMFAO

    Try readin it again then.  I genuinely believe that neither of you understand that criticism (that you may or may not agree with) is perfectly valid.  If you genuinely believe that your POV is the only correct opinion please do not bother me or this thread with it.  

  • ShrillyShrilly Citra, FLPosts: 376Member Common
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by Shrilly
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

    Sorry, but no thanks.

    And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

    AMEN SIR AMEN!!! when i read this post i looked JUST LIKE YOUR AVATAR!!! LMFAO

    Try readin it again then.  I genuinely believe that neither of you understand that criticism (that you may or may not agree with) is perfectly valid.  If you genuinely believe that your POV is the only correct opinion please do not bother me or this thread with it.  

    You asked for said criticism so take it with a pinch of salt if you wanted your opinion to be the only one you shoulda said WHO ELSE THINKS THE WAY I DO....

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,922Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by natpick

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

     ANet built in the "downed mechanic". They didn't do it just for fun. What I am getting at is that, in my eyes, you are ment to die frequently. I like you find this lame.

    If you are in the downed state frequently, or dying every 2 minutes, you are seriously doing something wrong. My level 59 Guardian has died only a handful of times, my level 38 Dagger/Dagger Elementalist has died even less. Typically, any and all deaths were because I wasn't paying attention or tried to solo a champion, etc.

    The active combat system in GW2 is what makes the game for me. I am able to keep myself alive by taking an active role in evading as much incoming damage as possible. The damage you can't evade, you can mitigate through active defenses (like using a block skill), or blinding your enemy right before their next attack so that it misses. The point is that death isn't exactly encouraged. You are penalized with a shorter downed state length if you go into the downed state in quick succession, you are penalized with death by repair costs and having to pay to go to the closest waypoint to rez (unless someone rezzes you).

    To answer the OP:

    I don't think quest hubs would've done anything for the game. I'm not a huge fan of the heart NPCs either, but remember that the Hearts were added after doing some cold playtesting with people in the office. They would walk by events, and when questioned why, they stated that they didn't have a quest for it. Hearts were a necessary evil.

    Through different combinations of traits, skills, armor stats, and weapon selections, you can fulfill many of the traditional roles within the game. You can make your character more tanky, or a pure glass cannon. You can make yourself a pseudo healer/utility character. Ultimately though, you are mostly responsible for yourself, because of how active combat is. GW2 doesn't need static roles with static stats built in. That exists is so many other games, it's nice to have something different.

    The game isn't without problems, but being a clone of something else isn't one of them. Threads like these shows me how much the community as a whole doesn't truly want anything that's different. People are comfortable with their defined roles and defined quest hubs, and defined end game, defined everything. The community has spent so much time allowing game developers telling them what to like, that they've actually come to believe it.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Shrilly
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by Shrilly
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

    Sorry, but no thanks.

    And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

    AMEN SIR AMEN!!! when i read this post i looked JUST LIKE YOUR AVATAR!!! LMFAO

    Try readin it again then.  I genuinely believe that neither of you understand that criticism (that you may or may not agree with) is perfectly valid.  If you genuinely believe that your POV is the only correct opinion please do not bother me or this thread with it.  

    You asked for said criticism so take it with a pinch of salt if you wanted your opinion to be the only one you shoulda said WHO ELSE THINKS THE WAY I DO....

    I didn't but expected some objectivity.  I see that you have tried to 'turn heads', but do not see the validity of it.  

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kaneth

    Threads like these shows me how much the community as a whole doesn't truly want anything that's different. People are comfortable with their defined roles and defined quest hubs, and defined end game, defined everything. The community has spent so much time allowing game developers telling them what to like, that they've actually come to believe it.

    Too bad there isn't a rep system or at least an applaud emoticon, because I'd use both for that part of your post alone, not to mention the rest of the post which is excellent too.

    image

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    ----------------

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  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Kaneth
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by natpick

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

     ANet built in the "downed mechanic". They didn't do it just for fun. What I am getting at is that, in my eyes, you are ment to die frequently. I like you find this lame.

    If you are in the downed state frequently, or dying every 2 minutes, you are seriously doing something wrong. My level 59 Guardian has died only a handful of times, my level 38 Dagger/Dagger Elementalist has died even less. Typically, any and all deaths were because I wasn't paying attention or tried to solo a champion, etc.

    The active combat system in GW2 is what makes the game for me. I am able to keep myself alive by taking an active role in evading as much incoming damage as possible. The damage you can't evade, you can mitigate through active defenses (like using a block skill), or blinding your enemy right before their next attack so that it misses. The point is that death isn't exactly encouraged. You are penalized with a shorter downed state length if you go into the downed state in quick succession, you are penalized with death by repair costs and having to pay to go to the closest waypoint to rez (unless someone rezzes you).

    To answer the OP:

    I don't think quest hubs would've done anything for the game. I'm not a huge fan of the heart NPCs either, but remember that the Hearts were added after doing some cold playtesting with people in the office. They would walk by events, and when questioned why, they stated that they didn't have a quest for it. Hearts were a necessary evil.

    Through different combinations of traits, skills, armor stats, and weapon selections, you can fulfill many of the traditional roles within the game. You can make your character more tanky, or a pure glass cannon. You can make yourself a pseudo healer/utility character. Ultimately though, you are mostly responsible for yourself, because of how active combat is. GW2 doesn't need static roles with static stats built in. That exists is so many other games, it's nice to have something different.

    The game isn't without problems, but being a clone of something else isn't one of them. Threads like these shows me how much the community as a whole doesn't truly want anything that's different. People are comfortable with their defined roles and defined quest hubs, and defined end game, defined everything. The community has spent so much time allowing game developers telling them what to like, that they've actually come to believe it.

    I agree here - my lvl 80 ranger did not die the first time until after I hit lvl 80.

    I think people want the same but say they want different. Actions speak louder than words.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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