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Should GW2 have kept more traditional mmo mechanics?

MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member

There is plenty that is good about GW2 but I just found it overwhelmingly tedious.  There are many reasons for this that I won't go into, but principally I never felt any sense of immersion.  I put this down to the following: -

1) Lack of Quest Hubs: In many areas the mechanics just felt over simplistic.  The hearts and the events were just a step too far in removing the player from any meaningful interaction with the game.  You just role up and fill the bar, then move on.  You don't need to talk to anyone or interact in anyway, you don't even meet the same people because you can just float around the tetris map aimlessly without any rhyme or reason.  Even learning skills and combat were just too quick and simple; and simple= dull.  

2) Lack of Defined Roles: Other parts of the game mechanics were too complex, such as the group setup, which required you to set the roles and the tactics and to communicate these with your team.  Great if you have a regular group, but given that the rest of the game is so desperately casual this seems to be an odd anomaly, and results in the complete mess that are dungeons amongst more casual or uninitiated players or PUG groups.  

In addition, given that all characters fundamentally do the same thing there is never that sense of being needed in a group, you are just a replaceable part.  Also, the fact your skills are largely chosen for you  juxtaposes awkwardly against the apparent freedom from defined roles.           

Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

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Comments

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

    No. I didn't like Quest hubs and I don't like Heart quest. Those should have never been made int the game. And with a game like this, Aet should have never had level mechanics. It takes away from the fun.

    also the game should have included raid dungeons, which it did not. Events can't replace Instanced PvE. Rift proves that.

    the trinity should have never been removed, but simply allow all classes to play each role. No healers basically kills large scale PvE and PvP for Melee fighters.

    also the game should have had more in world effects that the player changes and controls.

    image

  • natpicknatpick stockton/ u.kPosts: 143Member Uncommon

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

    image

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    I'll have to offer an emphatic "Hell no!" with regards to the thread title. The "traditional MMO" mechanics are what make the other MMOs like, well, the other MMOs. By taking what they've taken and discarding what they've discarded they've created a unique MMO in a sea of clones and I'm glad for it. If the day ever comes that I miss "traditional" things, like the trinity, quest hubs, static worlds, dull rotation based combat, non-consentual PvP etc. there will always be plenty of MMOs to choose from to get that fix. But what they've done they've done, in my opinion, remarkably well and I'm enjoying the hell out of, so why would I want it to change?

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Lack of meaningful player interaction bored me to tears.  GW2 focused more on the solo player, whether groups were available or not.  Then the removal of the trinity made the classes somewhat bland and uninteresting.  Every skill is more or less like it's counterparts, just different names and particle effects.

     

    I have to give credit to ArenaNet though for not charging a monthly subscription just to play a single player MMO... like some other games are doing or are planning to do.

     

    What will be interesting in the years to come are all those games that jumped onto the GW2-clone era during development, removing roles and / or classes.  In PnP days, if every class was a warrior / thief / priest / mage hybrid, it would not have been overly exciting - maybe at first, but part of the fun was being useful to others in long term campaigns.  .. the feeling of being important, irreplaceable .. having decisions fall on you the individual (because you were the only one with an applicable character skill or knowledge).

     

    Some like GW2 though (just not me).  It will be another niche market I suppose.

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    I'll have to offer an emphatic "Hell no!" with regards to the thread title. The "traditional MMO" mechanics are what make the other MMOs like, well, the other MMOs. By taking what they've taken and discarding what they've discarded they've created a unique MMO in a sea of clones and I'm glad for it. If the day ever comes that I miss "traditional" things, like the trinity, quest hubs, static worlds, dull rotation based combat, non-consentual PvP etc. there will always be plenty of MMOs to choose from to get that fix. But what they've done they've done, in my opinion, remarkably well and I'm enjoying the hell out of, so why would I want it to change?

    i agree. ANET just need to keep improving what they have and add new stuff. Too many similar mmos out there with traditional mechanics to get just another one. GW1 felt unique in its own way. Now GW2 feels unique in its own way. 

    I do agree with another poster that it would have been interesting to see GW2 without levels. But yeah, im happy with the product, and will be happier as they keep improving it and adding new stuff.

    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon

    You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

    Sorry, but no thanks.

    And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by Volkon
    I'll have to offer an emphatic "Hell no!" with regards to the thread title. The "traditional MMO" mechanics are what make the other MMOs like, well, the other MMOs. By taking what they've taken and discarding what they've discarded they've created a unique MMO in a sea of clones and I'm glad for it. If the day ever comes that I miss "traditional" things, like the trinity, quest hubs, static worlds, dull rotation based combat, non-consentual PvP etc. there will always be plenty of MMOs to choose from to get that fix. But what they've done they've done, in my opinion, remarkably well and I'm enjoying the hell out of, so why would I want it to change?

    i agree. ANET just need to keep improving what they have and add new stuff. Too many similar mmos out there with traditional mechanics to get just another one. GW1 felt unique in its own way. Now GW2 feels unique in its own way. 

    I do agree with another poster that it would have been interesting to see GW2 without levels. But yeah, im happy with the product, and will be happier as they keep improving it and adding new stuff.

    I will 3rd this :P 

    The game would be just another niche MMO had it stuck with traditional MMO mechanics. I'm not overly fond of the hearts myself but I personally avoid them and find a much better game due to that. They were only added to help ease players coming from more traditional themeparks into the experience anyways. 

     

    I do wish they would add more weapon variety. Some of the summons would make awesome permanent weapons and add a bit of spice and variety to the game and the classes. 

     

    But yeah, at the end of the day if they had gone with more traditional MMO mechanics I seriously doubt they would have been the second most played Western MMO. It would have been nothing but a niche game like so many others. 

  • CylintCylint Williamston, SCPosts: 13Member Uncommon

    Couldn't disagree with you more on point #1.  Quest Hubs and pointless talking with no real story progression and lore is just horrible.  And the free exploration of an open world is greater then any corridor driven on rails mmo. So, on that point I hope that more MMOs learn from GW2 and do away with quest hubs.

    On point #2, well, I hate what GW2 did with the classes. A recent poll on another popular website overwhelmingly supported the holy trinity system over that of GW2. I loved how Rift did the class system. You can be a tank and still switch to a roll for solo or PvP. That was perfect.

    Now, you spoke of a lack of immersion, and I too felt this. SWTOR was not a very good MMO, but it had the best story lines in any game, ever. Guild Wars 2 story just plain sucks. Getting my personal story hijacked by a walking cabbage kind of sucked too.

    Overall, they did a great job with the game, and I think you'll find that they have changed the MMO landscape forever - for the better.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member

    My answer is NO! People already call it a WoW clone etc. What would have been called if they used the same old tired mechanics?

    I hate the Trinity - is is a boring and utterly trite. What I mean is -as I ALWAYS EXPLAIN - you don't even need to communicate in games with the Trinity - Tanks do just that - healers - well they just stand there and heal - DPS they PEW, PEW, PEW the mob. That is not very exciting or interesting. Give me something else to try. People don't like to get out of their comfort zone and the Trinity is a comfort zone for MMO'ers. I myself, appreciate the outside the box thinking on the professions in GW2 - they totally play different for me and are fun.

     

    If you don't like the game - don't play it. No one is asking you to. (it is not you are paying a sub to play it).

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
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  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by botrytis

    My answer is NO! People already call it a WoW clone etc. What would have been called if they used the same old tired mechanics?

    If you don't like the game - don't play it. No one is asking you to.

    As always a well reasoned and constructive response.  Thank you.  

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyChasm

    There is plenty that is good about GW2 but I just found it overwhelmingly tedious.  There are many reasons for this that I won't go into, but principally I never felt any sense of immersion.  I put this down to the following: -

    1) Lack of Quest Hubs:

    2) Lack of Defined Roles: 

    In addition, given that all characters fundamentally do the same thing there is never that sense of being needed in a group, you are just a replaceable part.  Also, the fact your skills are largely chosen for you  juxtaposes awkwardly against the apparent freedom from defined roles.           

    Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs? 

    I like new choices and different approaches to gameplay. specifically, I enjoy GW2's departure from the mainstream EQ/WOW approach. If you want something more traditional, definitely check out the dozens of MMOs that travel that path.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • QSatuQSatu WarsawPosts: 1,735Member Uncommon

    There are roles in the game. It's just most content doesn;t require that much teamwork to win. But when you actually find a good boss the coba really shines so i don;t want gW2 to be more traditional. i want them to keep improving what they have.

    Quest hubs I don;t miss at all. They were tediou, boring and irritating most of the time. DEs even with it's limitations are a massive step forward.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit 

    I like new choices and different approaches to gameplay. specifically, I enjoy GW2's departure from the mainstream EQ/WOW approach. If you want something more traditional, definitely check out the dozens of MMOs that travel that path.

    Yeah, that also amazes me. People complain for 8 years that every game is based on WoW/EQ's model, and when a mainstream company produces a quality game which is not using that model, they complain that it's not using the model.

    If that's not /facepalm material, they I don't know what it is...

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyChasm  

    Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

    All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

    Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member

    The level of noob MMO players is too damn high in this website -.-" 

    I'm no elitist, I play casually, I have the best gear and few lvl 80 toons. Let me tell you this, dodge saves your ass, proper build saves your ass, proper and timed skill usage saves your ass. If you can't play the game, don't say the game suck. The only thing that suck is the player ESPECIALLY when you complain that you die a lot. Dafuq I have every survivor achievement there is in game, because I don't die that often. In fact I don't even die in the hardest dungeon IG, because I know my enemy AND my toon. 

     

    I hate the trinity. Being able to play whatever I want, and swap the trait build while inside dungeon or WvW is just awesome. I adjust myself to the situation. I don't cry that I'm not suited for the given encounter. 

    If you don't "get" the game due to brain inability, don't spit on it. GW2 has a lot more to offer than any other MMO currently on the market including the subscription based ones. ANet is a great developer too. Google "Sanctum of Rall" and see where the name comes from. 

     

    Go back to WoW, chances are, we don't really need you

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by MightyChasm  

    Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

    All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

    Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

    Thats true of most posts on here.  May as well shut the site.  But seriously you can extract your head from your arse now.  

  • MsGamerladyMsGamerlady Mmoville, INPosts: 181Member Uncommon

    Well op since you asked I'll bite. Nope the game is fine the way it is imo.

    image

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

    The level of noob MMO players is too damn high in this website -.-" 

    I'm no elitist, I play casually, I have the best gear and few lvl 80 toons. Let me tell you this, dodge saves your ass, proper build saves your ass, proper and timed skill usage saves your ass. If you can't play the game, don't say the game suck. The only thing that suck is the player ESPECIALLY when you complain that you die a lot. Dafuq I have every survivor achievement there is in game, because I don't die that often. In fact I don't even die in the hardest dungeon IG, because I know my enemy AND my toon. 

     

    I hate the trinity. Being able to play whatever I want, and swap the trait build while inside dungeon or WvW is just awesome. I adjust myself to the situation. I don't cry that I'm not suited for the given encounter. 

    If you don't "get" the game due to brain inability, don't spit on it. GW2 has a lot more to offer than any other MMO currently on the market including the subscription based ones. ANet is a great developer too. Google "Sanctum of Rall" and see where the name comes from. 

     

    Go back to WoW, chances are, we don't really need you

    Have you even read the OP?  

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by MightyChasm  

    Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

    All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

    Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

    Thats true of most posts on here.  May as well shut the site.  But seriously you can extract your head from your arse now.  

    Did I hurt your feelings that much? 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon

    I've reently watched let's play series of GW2 in youtube.

    The lack of curiosity that players display, the way people assumed stuff in GW2 had to play exactly the same as in other MMORPGs ("you taking all the loot", "here take this loot", "need to go to town to buy skills", "I must have done something wrong since my next bit of story is filed with guys 3 levels higher"), was completly appaling.

    When I get into a game I just click every button, poke everything.

    So no thank you, I like variation and exploring.

    If people want to drone over their games, making the exactsame motions in different skins and names, there is 938078629647563865 games like that this way <-------------------------------------

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by natpick

    i was actualy  playing gw2 earlier and thought the same thing if this game kept the trinity  it would  been a great mmo

    as it is been killed every 2 minutes just isnt fun,dont say use dodge it dont matter how much you dodge and roll frequent death is inevitable.

    shame really what a beutiful world it is and intresting races/classes.

     ANet built in the "downed mechanic". They didn't do it just for fun. What I am getting at is that, in my eyes, you are ment to die frequently. I like you find this lame.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by MightyChasm  

    Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

    All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

    Here is the problem.  These types of threads keep perpetuating the usual pointless arguments.  Have you not seen people already discuss these things in the thousands of other GW2 posts?  You aren't posting anything thought provoking or new on this subject. 

    Thats true of most posts on here.  May as well shut the site.  But seriously you can extract your head from your arse now.  

    Did I hurt your feelings that much? 

    Yes, well done.  

  • BeelzebobbieBeelzebobbie MalmöPosts: 429Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    You mean, make it just like another WoW clone like all those we got served these last 8 years?

    Sorry, but no thanks.

    And for those who can't live without those "traditional MMO mechanics", which are inreality "EQ/WoW clone mechanics", they have the vast majority of games to chose from! Leave GW2 alone for those who enjoy having a different games, a thing that didn't happen for mainstream MMOs (not talking about bug ridden crap made by amateurs like Darkfall and co) since a long time.

    I agree with the Captain here, leave GW2 alone. Its so much fun to play and I don't miss kill 10 rats and continuee to kill 15 wolfs and try to loot 7 fish scales and return the guy by the tree.

    I really don't miss "I throw a spell at you and then you throw one back to me and we continue like this for another 30 more spell with the same firebolt even if I have 40 other spells but they don't do the same amount of damage so I only spam this one and you can't win cause I have more health then you."

    If WOW was released today it wouldn't even have more players then Warhammer online.

    WOW was fun for 5 years ago now its just old, ugly and boring. Nothing has changed and nothing ever will they only have players cause nobody wants to give up there characters that they have spend so much time at. If blizzard wiped ever server they would have no players that would logon again.

    Players don't want another WOW clone I think SWOTR is prof of that. 

    peace out and don't all of you 40-50 year olds hate now for trash talking your favorite game.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyChasm

    There is plenty that is good about GW2 but I just found it overwhelmingly tedious.  There are many reasons for this that I won't go into, but principally I never felt any sense of immersion.  I put this down to the following: -

    1) Lack of Quest Hubs: In many areas the mechanics just felt over simplistic.  The hearts and the events were just a step too far in removing the player from any meaningful interaction with the game.  You just role up and fill the bar, then move on.  You don't need to talk to anyone or interact in anyway, you don't even meet the same people because you can just float around the tetris map aimlessly without any rhyme or reason.  Even learning skills and combat were just too quick and simple; and simple= dull.  

    2) Lack of Defined Roles: Other parts of the game mechanics were too complex, such as the group setup, which required you to set the roles and the tactics and to communicate these with your team.  Great if you have a regular group, but given that the rest of the game is so desperately casual this seems to be an odd anomaly, and results in the complete mess that are dungeons amongst more casual or uninitiated players or PUG groups.  

    In addition, given that all characters fundamentally do the same thing there is never that sense of being needed in a group, you are just a replaceable part.  Also, the fact your skills are largely chosen for you  juxtaposes awkwardly against the apparent freedom from defined roles.           

    Given the above, does anyone else feel that GW2 would have been a better game if it had retained more defined roles and more traditional quest hubs?  

    All the above is IMO so can we please avoid the usual pointless argument about this.  

    I ask, why everytime a game or person do somethings diferent we always have people saying to not change?

     

    if this things bother you maybe this game is not for you, that is pretty much what make GW2, GW2, games like this making things completely different is what can bring good things for us, would you complain in TSW investigative quests is too hard and too far from the normal and they should keep the old way to quest like kill things and fetch things?

     

    we need new things,

    and to answer your last question, no that is what make gw2 good for me, it ask for a better player to play, don't limit my time to play because I can't do things for lack of a tanker/cleric, and it sure can make me change my style to help more the group if I feel like it, GW2 is what you complain, that is what make most of us play it, possible for some if not for that people would continue on they last game. if you don't like its ok, we sure have several games with things like you want.

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
    image

  • MuntzMuntz Minneapolis, MNPosts: 332Member Uncommon

    No it wouldn't be a better game. It would just be a more traditional game. Not sure why they would want to do that product differentiation is generally seen as a good thing. You certainly can do it wrong but they have been successful so I doubt they see any need for change to please traditionalists. You can't appeal to everyone. 

    You can always start by talking to the heart npc to get that quest feel. It is limited in that it doesn't lead to chain quests. Frankly I don't miss quest hubs so this really isn't an issue for me and I don't think they should be added. Not sure why so many can't just talk to people or stranger still a vocal minority that finds the game anti-socal can bitch about it in a forum but can't find a way to communicate in game. I often grouped with people in DEs you get more drops that way. 

    Those that quit because of "no defined roles" have made my PUG experince so much better. The elimination of Zerg Rez has made it further difficult for some of you hangers on to get any where. We now have many folks who provide Support, Tanking, Healing, CC, ... and switch between them as needed. Dungeon runs have become a better experinece. It would be a big mistake to add the trinity back into this game. 

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