Originally posted by azzamasin Even though I do not play the game I will defend its right to monetize how they fit. It's silly for anyone to argue anothers business decision, you either accept it or move on. It's as silly as walking into the grocery store and complaining that milk is $4.07 a gallon. Don't like it don't buy it, simple as that.
That is assuming there are any options. With the current trend, Pay to Win model, will be the only model available and I dont want to move on from my hobby just because a bunch of greedy Suits have taken it over.
I think it all comes down to ones perspective of what pay to win means. In the case of AoW I just see alot of free players crying that they dont get the same advantages as sub players.
Please refer to the F2P players get what they paid for thread topic in The Pub.
Wait let me get this straight... A company is trying to get their customers to pay money for a product? That's surely newsworthy!
On a serious note: thanks for sharing your story here. You're basically saying you've spent a lot of time on a game you obviously hate. Congrats!
There is a difference between charging for a product and trying to squeeze as much as you can from your customers. The entire F2P model is based so that, some of the user base, keep paying more, More and MORE money. That is not a healthy bussiness model, that is just greed.
Subscription based is a healthy model. You pay the box price and a fixed low cost every month and for that you get everything in the game (barring future expansions).
All companies want to maximize their profits and squeeze as much as they can from their customers. That's the capitalist logic at work - there are no benevolent philantropists producing AAA entertainment for free, they all want to make money and they'll use whatever business model they see fit, no matter whether some idealist gamers think they're greedy or not.
I prefer the sub model myself tbh, but sadly the times have changed. I'm not going to pass on great games just because their business models are not perfect. Wushu's ftp matrix is fine right now, it's basically a sub game with a limited trial and a cs. For 9 bucks/month you get full access to everything and there's really no need to spend more money although the option is there for those who want it.
If AoW is not P2W, it is certainly "Pay or wish you had." I played for several weeks in the beta, could not get beyond the insane grind that pushes you into the cash shop or suffer. Way, way too much grind for title to be popular outside of Asia. The only reason this game gets any attention at all, is the utter wasteland that the MMO space in the West has been for years. And aside from some additional flash, this game is no different than a dozen Asian grinders I have seen before.
mmorpg.com should just replace their domain with hatersgonnahate.com . It's a more accurate representation of the "community" here.
The degrading items are useful for a player driven economy. Time limits on the items ensure that you people will keep buying said items. The majority of them can - and are - made by players, such as the bags. However, the horse expiration is something that I find to be absurd.
VIP is $10. The "Deluxe" package is more. $10 gets you offline training and access to the beta as much as you want. I do agree that the time limit put on the beta is nothing but a money grab. The "Deluxe" package gets you VIP for two or three months (I forget which) as well as item mall stuff, so it actually comes out to be cheaper than all of it would be if bought separately.
Basically, it's not a bad deal. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. The game is in beta, so if you don't want to deal with the restrictions then wait for it to release. It's not like it's going to cost you anything, being F2P.
I haven't messed with the instances, but I'm sure that you're exaggerating those as well.
Now hurry and report me to the mods as "Trolling" because you don't like what I'm saying.
Since when has a factual retelling of something that is occuring been classified as hate? I dont enjoy the taste of olives but I have nothing against them personally, I don't "hate" them. And no one would ever at the dinner table say something as childish as "haters gonna hate bro" if I chose to explain why I dont eat olives.
Why are you assuming that if someone isnt playing a game for various reasons they "hate" it?. How can you hate a piece of software? Why does explaining the things that prevent someone from playing a game equate to them hating it?
Its as silly as me saying you "love" the game just because you might play it. Stop being so black and white with peoples opinions.
Wait let me get this straight... A company is trying to get their customers to pay money for a product? That's surely newsworthy!
On a serious note: thanks for sharing your story here. You're basically saying you've spent a lot of time on a game you obviously hate. Congrats!
There is a difference between charging for a product and trying to squeeze as much as you can from your customers. The entire F2P model is based so that, some of the user base, keep paying more, More and MORE money. That is not a healthy bussiness model, that is just greed.
Subscription based is a healthy model. You pay the box price and a fixed low cost every month and for that you get everything in the game (barring future expansions).
Guess what? You can pay a 9$ sub.. You should pay a sub. Unless you just don't want t opay for a game, then you play for free.
Age of Wushu is a "Shell Game" of the worst order.
Daily limitations on leveling up crafting skills.
Yep You can't pay cash grab 1000$ worth of mats and grind to max in a day. You have to, you know play the game, and get better at your craft over time. Crazy huh?
Weekly limit on how many times you can run any instance.
7 times per week per instance. The nice thing is that there is no daily restriction. You get to run with friends and guildies.
Extremely low drop rates on game changing PvP skills in PvE instances, that are quite possibly the most boring tedious grinds known in the history of MMORPGs.
Ummm you don't get "pvp skills" (wtf is that anyways) or any other skills besides flying from instances.. So yeah Mr. 2 capped toons, the drop rate is extremely low, it's 0.
Decaying Mounts, Bags, Gear. (but you can buy the mount on the cash shop, only for 5 bucks in real money)
Decaying mounts, I really don't like that one either, but good thing you can buy them with silver. No need to purchase from cash shop. Bags should decay. It keeps the economy going.
You can't buy gear from the cash shop Mr. 2 capped toons.
"VIP status" for purchasing a Beta game that has a finite time limit. 2 months for 20 bucks? Mind you if you aren't VIP you basically are going to be non-viable in game.
20 bucks for 2 months. That breaks down to 9$ per month. Just like the sub option. Remember no box fee either. So damn nice not having to pay a box fee after getting robbed all last year. 80$ for swtor, 40 for TSW, 60 for GW2, 50 for RIFT, 50 for WoW. Again so damn nice not having to pay that BS.
So all in all, to be competitive in this game, you have to purchase VIP, a $5 mount every month, and whatever else Snail Games throws at you to entice you to gain an advantage. Mind you the classes are so imbalanced that there's no point in playing unless you're a Scholar or Shaolin.
All and all yeah buddy it's gonna cost you 5-10$ a month to be able to learn skills, and set up your shop while off line. That's like 9-12 months of good play for the box cost of WoW, RIFT, GW2, TSW, and DFUW.
[mod edit]
Only thing that this game has is the jumping skills. Despite what people say, combat is clunky as hell. How many times have you tried blocking to basically be perma cc'd by a Shaolin?
$150,000 winner takes all 1v1 invitational tournament, with all expense paid trip to China says your wrong.
If you still want to try this game, don't say you haven't been warned.
I have a level 36 inner Wudang and a 31 Royal Guard... I have a lot of in-game experience.
Fair enough.
I forgot to mention the only things to do everyday are...
-Spy from other schools (Basically walking around looking for an offline player to steal "Information" from, no one stops you as there's no point plus most people who actually patrol are AFk just cultivating)
When a Patrol kills a spy they gain school honor tokens which are quite valuable and useful. I kill spies often and have been killed as a spy. Spies can also murder patrollers with no penalty. I enjoy spy missions. Being sneaky is fun.
-Kidnap offline players (if you aren't VIP you only make 1 liang, and can only do this once per hour)
Playing the game without VIP would be a pain in the ass. VIP is well worth it though. 9 dollars is fair enough and if everyone was simply a free player the game would die.
-Steal school scripts (extremely low drop rate if you can get passed the zerg of players standing their spamming their cc's and stuns)
Scripts come out of a book case. How do they have a drop rate? If you try to rob a well defended school on your own then you deserve to die.
-Twilight Village (so boring and annoying at times that it might give you a cataract)
It takes like 45 minutes to complete and a boss summons players to help so you get some pvp.
-Green Cloud Castle (Took a friend of mine 7 hours to complete)
Lol, what? did it reset and he restarted again? Challenging instances are a good thing...
-Gathering mats to sell or make items (a daily limit on how much experience you can get)
Daily limits keep the playing field leveled so we don't have to do one damn thing for like 8 hours in a row to compete with nolifers. I like how everything is limited it keeps me doing different things in game. The game never feels like a grind to me.
If you decide to go kill or fight people, after about 5 kills you gain enough infamy to the point where you go to jail.
Only if you get killed.
Even capturing a guild territory is just a spam fest. If there's even resistance, as this system seems bugged, it's just this big zerg with people spamming aoe stuns... If they have a lot of scholars is just a faceroll.
Fair enough.
I'm telling you, just do yourself a favor and don't buy into the hype on this board, I too at one point saw the potential of this game, then I realized what it's true intended purpose was.
Disagree. I've never bought gold and feel like i am doing quite well. I agree that VIP is necessary but buying gold is not necessary at all. Part of the challenge of this game is in learning how to make an income in a living game world. I love that you never have to grind mobs or quests (well you do have to do the tutorial but aside from that)
So all in all, to be competitive in this game, you have to purchase VIP, a $5 mount every month, and whatever else Snail Games throws at you to entice you to gain an advantage. Mind you the classes are so imbalanced that there's no point in playing unless you're a Scholar or Shaolin.
There will always be class balance issues in any game with non similar classes. In age of wushu this changes as characters learn different inner skills. You can learn any skill in the game as any class though which heavily mitigates any balance issues. Also, I've never ever ever heard of anyone describe Shaolin as overpowered so i believe that you have some player skill issues. I'm guessing you get perma CCed because you always block the Shaolin feint. Shaolin for one are very vulnerable to ranged/kiting.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I dare anyone attempting mid to high end crafting to tell me the grind does not suck (weapons or armor in my own case). To get the materials, the books, manage what you need to advance 4 crafting skill bars... plus all the "optional" items you need for crafting (unless you buy them, of course) grind, grind, and grind. No thanks, I have a job. This might be fine for people who play and sell items to in turn sell unbound silver for RL cash, but not for someone who would ever craft for "fun". No effin way.
Yeah the crafting is pretty cool. It feels like crafting. It's certanly not the take two copper, press a button and you get a axe of evil killing type thing. Crafting is at the heart of AoW, not some tacked on system just because mmorpgs have.
I stopped reading when you said it's only worth playing a scholar or shaolin. Alright I read a bit further when your allegations of imbalance were based on the fact that shaolin have a feint which knocks down. Soooo, you didn't realise this and kept blocking a shaolin and he beat you? That's not imbalance that means you need to do some reading and training sir. Shaolin have the best feint in the game. No other school has this.
It's the same as when tang and wudang like to go aerial on beggars using lotus palm and get faceplanted into the ground. Only a fool blocks a shaolin (or even lets him get close) and similarly only a fool uses flying skills against a lotus palm beggar.
A lot of people keep explaining to me the concept of free market, and how a company can choose it's business model in any way they choose, and it's my choice whether to pay for it or not. I'd like to illuminate for those of you who insult my awareness of such a concept to this other concept - it's called freedom of speech, which gives me the right to state that I don't like the way their business strategy is deceptive and designed to funnel individuals to their cash shop or to purchase "VIP" access. First of all calling it "VIP" is a misnomer because that's the only way you can legitimately compete in the game.
With that being said, I've never once been a free 2 play player for AoW, as a matter of fact, I own 2 VIP accounts, and would gladly pay a subscription fee if I knew that was it, and that it wasn't just part of their shell game to shroud what this so called "closed beta" really is.. Notice the piece meal way they've started releasing inner skills? It reminds me of a sweepstakes where you think you've won something but then they send you something like "You've just made it to the super-super-semi-finalist, if you pay 20 more dollars you have a chance to win $1,000,000."
Oh and by the way... If you can tell me the PVE is this bad by accident then I really feel sorry for you. The only thing challenging about running an instance is that the paint drying in the other room might distract you.
I stopped reading when you said it's only worth playing a scholar or shaolin. Alright I read a bit further when your allegations of imbalance were based on the fact that shaolin have a feint which knocks down. Soooo, you didn't realise this and kept blocking a shaolin and he beat you? That's not imbalance that means you need to do some reading and training sir. Shaolin have the best feint in the game. No other school has this.
It's the same as when tang and wudang like to go aerial on beggars using lotus palm and get faceplanted into the ground. Only a fool blocks a shaolin (or even lets him get close) and similarly only a fool uses flying skills against a lotus palm beggar.
Ok so then how are you supposed to close the gap if you're a Wudang who doesn't have any ranged? OHHHH THATS RIGHT BY GETTING WILD GOOSE WHICH COSTS ABOUT $60 IN REAL LIFE!!!
The sub-par PVE aspect of Age of Wushu is not an accident, it simply wasn't a priority. The "end-game" of Age of Wushu begins after your first day of playing and you've chosen a school. Age of Wushu relies on its PVP and player interaction through-out Jianghu, which has resulted in a lot of in-game politics and guild warfare.
This is an example of the current guild war/alliance that is currently occuring in Age of Wushu.
Created by the leader of the Goons and edited by others, gives a decent overview of major guilds and their alliances and wars. This is the amount of player interaction and politics that keeps me playing.
my beef with AOW esp SNAIL NA bait and switch tactics which they have demonstrated time and time again, it's like a spoilt child trying to test the boundaries and get away with murder.....
everything that is done so far, is to entice the players to spend more money in-game, ofc u dont have to says the fanboys, but then how viable are u when it comes to pvping...., the way i look at the way the game has been designed it's to maximise their profits by keep the pressure on players to constantly buy GOLD and cash shop items to get a competitive edge over their opponents.
they could just have gone for a subscription based model like WOW and cash shop only selling cosmetic items, get rid of the bound and unbound liang and everyone will be happy at least the playing field is level between normal gamers who would like to be in control on how much they gonna spend per month, rather than no limited as its currently now.
again i will say this game is fine it's the company behind it thats where the problem starts, seem like it's run by a company that only looks at the bottomline and not the big picture, maybe they need to learn from Blizzard on how to be a 'AAA' company...
They gotta make money Elm. You will never need to open the cash shop if you play the game. I stand by this with my $9 being the only cash I've spent. I'm gonna spend another $10-15 this week simply because I feel like I'm robbing these guys.
If you don't have time to play the game, or a person who believes they got beat because of gear, sure buy gold. It will help the person that doesn't have time, but the other guy, that guy in all honesty is the cash cow. He will keep spending, and spending and keep losing. F2P games pray on people like this.
Yeah it would be nice to have a sub only game, but we know from this site alone there are people out there who refuse to pay for a game even if they like it. Look a GW2 for example. The majority of those who enjoy the game would rather stop playing than pay a sub.
I'm firmly in the camp of if it's good I will pay a sub. People like me seem to be in the minority these days. Either that or the games the past few years haven't been good. Probably a combination of both.
Originally posted by AresPL @Burntvet You sure You played AoW? grind?
I dare anyone attempting mid to high end crafting to tell me the grind does not suck (weapons or armor in my own case). To get the materials, the books, manage what you need to advance 4 crafting skill bars... plus all the "optional" items you need for crafting (unless you buy them, of course) grind, grind, and grind. No thanks, I have a job. This might be fine for people who play and sell items to in turn sell unbound silver for RL cash, but not for someone who would ever craft for "fun". No effin way.
Perhaps you should quit MMOs altogether, because by your definition any MMO is a grind. They're all about progressing by doing the same or similar things for extended time periods. Crafting is always about gathering/buying materials and then putting them together using some kind of point-and-click method, and getting progressively better results as your skill bar rises.
AoW's crafting system, while not specatcular, is very solid and it has some nice tweaks like the bejeweled minigame (which reduces the "grind"), the workstation system, the usefulness of low level recipes, etc. But above all it's good because it ties into the economy in a well-designed way - crafters depend on other players and there's no realistic way to be self-sufficient.
Overall there's very little traditional "grind" in AoW (mainly because mobs give no exp and because there are multiple playstyle options) and I always laugh when I see that comment being made, since it always makes the person making it look like a fool.
Weekly limit on how many times you can run any instance.
Extremely low drop rates on game changing PvP skills in PvE instances, that are quite possibly the most boring tedious grinds known in the history of MMORPGs.
How can u "grind" a Instance with a Weekly limit?
U mean Goose right?
I got my this week after 30+ TV runs and 15+ Goose drops.
Some of my Guildmates got it with first run.
"Grind" as aTailor?Not realy.
Grind is 4 me standing on the same Spot 4 hours and kill the same mob 1000x like i did in RFO or other pure Grinder.
Im a level 7 Tailor.
I need to harvest Silk/Ramie/Hemp and hunt some Fierce Dogs and Monkeys.
I buyed the 100 Liang Books 4 both(Farmer/Hunter).
Then i make 4-5 Mini Instance Runs without Bosskill to get Flax and Coath cloth.
For all this i need about 2 hours.
With this Mats i can craft ~20 Armor Pieces=600 Vigor.My max is 694.
With upgrading the 54er Pieces I spend 3 hours a day in my professions.
7h 4 GCC?Maybe with a bad PUG.
With Guildgroup 1,5-2h.
9$/Month is ok 4 me.
I payed more in Atlantica Online 4 the Warrior Package.
Comments
Please refer to the F2P players get what they paid for thread topic in The Pub.
What? they are making an mmorpg to make money???
I thought they where working for free or just because they have nothing better to do...damn i feel bad now.
All companies want to maximize their profits and squeeze as much as they can from their customers. That's the capitalist logic at work - there are no benevolent philantropists producing AAA entertainment for free, they all want to make money and they'll use whatever business model they see fit, no matter whether some idealist gamers think they're greedy or not.
I prefer the sub model myself tbh, but sadly the times have changed. I'm not going to pass on great games just because their business models are not perfect. Wushu's ftp matrix is fine right now, it's basically a sub game with a limited trial and a cs. For 9 bucks/month you get full access to everything and there's really no need to spend more money although the option is there for those who want it.
Breaking News: Business seeks to maximize profits: more at 11.
Is it really only designed for 1 thing? Did they not design it for entertainment at all?
Since when has a factual retelling of something that is occuring been classified as hate? I dont enjoy the taste of olives but I have nothing against them personally, I don't "hate" them. And no one would ever at the dinner table say something as childish as "haters gonna hate bro" if I chose to explain why I dont eat olives.
Why are you assuming that if someone isnt playing a game for various reasons they "hate" it?. How can you hate a piece of software? Why does explaining the things that prevent someone from playing a game equate to them hating it?
Its as silly as me saying you "love" the game just because you might play it. Stop being so black and white with peoples opinions.
Guess what? You can pay a 9$ sub.. You should pay a sub. Unless you just don't want t opay for a game, then you play for free.
Yeah so what's the problem?
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I dare anyone attempting mid to high end crafting to tell me the grind does not suck (weapons or armor in my own case). To get the materials, the books, manage what you need to advance 4 crafting skill bars... plus all the "optional" items you need for crafting (unless you buy them, of course) grind, grind, and grind. No thanks, I have a job. This might be fine for people who play and sell items to in turn sell unbound silver for RL cash, but not for someone who would ever craft for "fun". No effin way.I stopped reading when you said it's only worth playing a scholar or shaolin. Alright I read a bit further when your allegations of imbalance were based on the fact that shaolin have a feint which knocks down. Soooo, you didn't realise this and kept blocking a shaolin and he beat you? That's not imbalance that means you need to do some reading and training sir. Shaolin have the best feint in the game. No other school has this.
It's the same as when tang and wudang like to go aerial on beggars using lotus palm and get faceplanted into the ground. Only a fool blocks a shaolin (or even lets him get close) and similarly only a fool uses flying skills against a lotus palm beggar.
A lot of people keep explaining to me the concept of free market, and how a company can choose it's business model in any way they choose, and it's my choice whether to pay for it or not. I'd like to illuminate for those of you who insult my awareness of such a concept to this other concept - it's called freedom of speech, which gives me the right to state that I don't like the way their business strategy is deceptive and designed to funnel individuals to their cash shop or to purchase "VIP" access. First of all calling it "VIP" is a misnomer because that's the only way you can legitimately compete in the game.
With that being said, I've never once been a free 2 play player for AoW, as a matter of fact, I own 2 VIP accounts, and would gladly pay a subscription fee if I knew that was it, and that it wasn't just part of their shell game to shroud what this so called "closed beta" really is.. Notice the piece meal way they've started releasing inner skills? It reminds me of a sweepstakes where you think you've won something but then they send you something like "You've just made it to the super-super-semi-finalist, if you pay 20 more dollars you have a chance to win $1,000,000."
Oh and by the way... If you can tell me the PVE is this bad by accident then I really feel sorry for you. The only thing challenging about running an instance is that the paint drying in the other room might distract you.
Ok so then how are you supposed to close the gap if you're a Wudang who doesn't have any ranged? OHHHH THATS RIGHT BY GETTING WILD GOOSE WHICH COSTS ABOUT $60 IN REAL LIFE!!!
Thank you.
It ws the same patch that made shaolin so powerful.
The sub-par PVE aspect of Age of Wushu is not an accident, it simply wasn't a priority. The "end-game" of Age of Wushu begins after your first day of playing and you've chosen a school. Age of Wushu relies on its PVP and player interaction through-out Jianghu, which has resulted in a lot of in-game politics and guild warfare.
This is an example of the current guild war/alliance that is currently occuring in Age of Wushu.
Age of Wushu Alliance/War Chart
Created by the leader of the Goons and edited by others, gives a decent overview of major guilds and their alliances and wars. This is the amount of player interaction and politics that keeps me playing.
my beef with AOW esp SNAIL NA bait and switch tactics which they have demonstrated time and time again, it's like a spoilt child trying to test the boundaries and get away with murder.....
everything that is done so far, is to entice the players to spend more money in-game, ofc u dont have to says the fanboys, but then how viable are u when it comes to pvping...., the way i look at the way the game has been designed it's to maximise their profits by keep the pressure on players to constantly buy GOLD and cash shop items to get a competitive edge over their opponents.
they could just have gone for a subscription based model like WOW and cash shop only selling cosmetic items, get rid of the bound and unbound liang and everyone will be happy at least the playing field is level between normal gamers who would like to be in control on how much they gonna spend per month, rather than no limited as its currently now.
again i will say this game is fine it's the company behind it thats where the problem starts, seem like it's run by a company that only looks at the bottomline and not the big picture, maybe they need to learn from Blizzard on how to be a 'AAA' company...
my 2 cents.
They gotta make money Elm. You will never need to open the cash shop if you play the game. I stand by this with my $9 being the only cash I've spent. I'm gonna spend another $10-15 this week simply because I feel like I'm robbing these guys.
If you don't have time to play the game, or a person who believes they got beat because of gear, sure buy gold. It will help the person that doesn't have time, but the other guy, that guy in all honesty is the cash cow. He will keep spending, and spending and keep losing. F2P games pray on people like this.
Yeah it would be nice to have a sub only game, but we know from this site alone there are people out there who refuse to pay for a game even if they like it. Look a GW2 for example. The majority of those who enjoy the game would rather stop playing than pay a sub.
I'm firmly in the camp of if it's good I will pay a sub. People like me seem to be in the minority these days. Either that or the games the past few years haven't been good. Probably a combination of both.
Perhaps you should quit MMOs altogether, because by your definition any MMO is a grind. They're all about progressing by doing the same or similar things for extended time periods. Crafting is always about gathering/buying materials and then putting them together using some kind of point-and-click method, and getting progressively better results as your skill bar rises.
AoW's crafting system, while not specatcular, is very solid and it has some nice tweaks like the bejeweled minigame (which reduces the "grind"), the workstation system, the usefulness of low level recipes, etc. But above all it's good because it ties into the economy in a well-designed way - crafters depend on other players and there's no realistic way to be self-sufficient.
Overall there's very little traditional "grind" in AoW (mainly because mobs give no exp and because there are multiple playstyle options) and I always laugh when I see that comment being made, since it always makes the person making it look like a fool.
How can u "grind" a Instance with a Weekly limit?
U mean Goose right?
I got my this week after 30+ TV runs and 15+ Goose drops.
Some of my Guildmates got it with first run.
"Grind" as aTailor?Not realy.
Grind is 4 me standing on the same Spot 4 hours and kill the same mob 1000x like i did in RFO or other pure Grinder.
Im a level 7 Tailor.
I need to harvest Silk/Ramie/Hemp and hunt some Fierce Dogs and Monkeys.
I buyed the 100 Liang Books 4 both(Farmer/Hunter).
Then i make 4-5 Mini Instance Runs without Bosskill to get Flax and Coath cloth.
For all this i need about 2 hours.
With this Mats i can craft ~20 Armor Pieces=600 Vigor.My max is 694.
With upgrading the 54er Pieces I spend 3 hours a day in my professions.
7h 4 GCC?Maybe with a bad PUG.
With Guildgroup 1,5-2h.
9$/Month is ok 4 me.
I payed more in Atlantica Online 4 the Warrior Package.