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Top MMO clan players who play like it's a job - what do they do for a living?

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  • GreyhooffGreyhooff Member Posts: 654
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Panther2103
    A lot of the top players get sponsorships from companies to run things and be the best at what they do. If they clear something first, and stream it, or make videos of it, the more views they get the more ad revenue the companies provide to them. Some top gaming clans and top MMO clan players can make more than enough to live off of just playing their favorite game(s).

    You're proably right - but I suspect there is a bit more to this than meets the eye.

     

    For example, imagine you were on the road to becoming a professional MMORPG games player - what circumstances must you be in to have the time? You would prpbably spend a lot of time on the metagame and on the game itself.

     

    I imagine it would be an extremely unusual circumstance.

    Panther is wrong. There are no MMO players who make a living playing MMO.

    This is something that comes as a surprise to people who thought paragon were millionaires living off Asus sponsorship or whatever.

    Most top MMO guilds actually don't even play as many hours as you'd think. Most of their players have jobs, and I know casual guilds that spend more time in-game than a lot of top MMO guilds.

    It's just a matter of efficiency. Just like productivity of modern mechanised farmers vs ancient egyptian farmers who needed 10x the hours and manpower for the same yield of crops.

    image

  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Member Posts: 286

    This is a great post as we've all come across these types of gamers.    

    One of my RL buddies falls into this category. You'd think he was some unemployed loser in his mom's basement but he actually works at his family's business and keeps a gaming rig in his office to play during the day.   He doesn't go crazy during work hours, mostly just does dailies or farming but he is online most of the day.

     

  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173

    [quote]Originally posted by MurlockDance[b][quote]

    Anyway, getting back to the subject on hand, I know one heck of a lot of MMORPG players who are chronically ill and the internet/social gaming is an outlet for them to have a more normal life. Quite a few of them become major achievers in MMORPGs and cornerstones of important guilds and raid groups. They might be on social benefits, for whatever reason, but they always tell me about how important the internet has been for them, especially to avoid complete social isolation.

    Very few of the gamers that spend long periods of time in game that I know are basement dwellers or unemployed scroungers or whatever. In fact, most people I have met, raiders and non-raiders both, are people with jobs, sometimes kids, and other things ongoing.

    Probably some of the jobholders are lucky and are close to their jobs so they do not waste a lot of time everyday in traffic. That will certainly wear away what kind of free time you have to spend on games ![/b][/quote]


    In my experience, mostly this. The folks I've known over the years who are in game for 12-20 hours a day are retired, disabled, unemployed, working from home or students on break. For folks at home, mmos provide social interaction and are a great way to feel engaged with the world, even if it is only virtual.


    I used to spend 16 hour days in game on the weekends when I raided and was busy with guild duties. Easy enough to do.

  • gambe1gambe1 Member UncommonPosts: 123
    I knew few people that could play at work. Goverment jobs mostly. No surprise there.
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,823


    Originally posted by Greyhooff
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne Originally posted by Panther2103 A lot of the top players get sponsorships from companies to run things and be the best at what they do. If they clear something first, and stream it, or make videos of it, the more views they get the more ad revenue the companies provide to them. Some top gaming clans and top MMO clan players can make more than enough to live off of just playing their favorite game(s).
    You're proably right - but I suspect there is a bit more to this than meets the eye.   For example, imagine you were on the road to becoming a professional MMORPG games player - what circumstances must you be in to have the time? You would prpbably spend a lot of time on the metagame and on the game itself.   I imagine it would be an extremely unusual circumstance.
    Panther is wrong. There are no MMO players who make a living playing MMO.

    This is something that comes as a surprise to people who thought paragon were millionaires living off Asus sponsorship or whatever.

    Most top MMO guilds actually don't even play as many hours as you'd think. Most of their players have jobs, and I know casual guilds that spend more time in-game than a lot of top MMO guilds.

    It's just a matter of efficiency. Just like productivity of modern mechanised farmers vs ancient egyptian farmers who needed 10x the hours and manpower for the same yield of crops.



    Its funny that you mention NO guilds are sponsored then use Paragon as an example because Paragon is indeed sponsored.


    Paragon teamed with the Chinese guild Dream and Dream is a well known e-sports sponsor in Asia.


    So, yes, there are WoW guilds that are paid to raid.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    Originally posted by Panther2103 A lot of the top players get sponsorships from companies to run things and be the best at what they do. If they clear something first, and stream it, or make videos of it, the more views they get the more ad revenue the companies provide to them. Some top gaming clans and top MMO clan players can make more than enough to live off of just playing their favorite game(s).
    You're proably right - but I suspect there is a bit more to this than meets the eye.   For example, imagine you were on the road to becoming a professional MMORPG games player - what circumstances must you be in to have the time? You would prpbably spend a lot of time on the metagame and on the game itself.   I imagine it would be an extremely unusual circumstance.
    Panther is wrong. There are no MMO players who make a living playing MMO.

     

    This is something that comes as a surprise to people who thought paragon were millionaires living off Asus sponsorship or whatever.

    Most top MMO guilds actually don't even play as many hours as you'd think. Most of their players have jobs, and I know casual guilds that spend more time in-game than a lot of top MMO guilds.

    It's just a matter of efficiency. Just like productivity of modern mechanised farmers vs ancient egyptian farmers who needed 10x the hours and manpower for the same yield of crops.


    Its funny that you mention NO guilds are sponsored then use Paragon as an example because Paragon is indeed sponsored.

     


    Paragon teamed with the Chinese guild Dream and Dream is a well known e-sports sponsor in Asia.


    So, yes, there are WoW guilds that are paid to raid.

    And some gaming guilds such as Goons pay their senior officers to run their operations in various games.

    I actually met a guy who was (allegedly) paid $600/mo to tank for his guild in WOW.  Used to play EVE with us during his free time.

    I remember back when Lineage 2 first launched, there were clans advertising for members, and they required people to play at least 10 or even 12 hours a day (minimum).

    Always wondered who those folks were, because they had no shortage of members and their alliance held all the castles at that time.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Kyleran
     

    And some gaming guilds such as Goons pay their senior officers to run their operations in various games.

    I actually met a guy who was (allegedly) paid $600/mo to tank for his guild in WOW.  Used to play EVE with us during his free time.

    I remember back when Lineage 2 first launched, there were clans advertising for members, and they required people to play at least 10 or even 12 hours a day (minimum).

    Always wondered who those folks were, because they had no shortage of members and their alliance held all the castles at that time.

     

    Really? i guess pay to win (or pay to be carried) is alive and well even in P2P games.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
     

    And some gaming guilds such as Goons pay their senior officers to run their operations in various games.

    I actually met a guy who was (allegedly) paid $600/mo to tank for his guild in WOW.  Used to play EVE with us during his free time.

    I remember back when Lineage 2 first launched, there were clans advertising for members, and they required people to play at least 10 or even 12 hours a day (minimum).

    Always wondered who those folks were, because they had no shortage of members and their alliance held all the castles at that time.

     

    Really? i guess pay to win (or pay to be carried) is alive and well even in P2P games.

    Yeah, I guess so, but I said allegedly because I have a hard time believing anyone could get paid for such an activity, but then again I'm really out of touch from the mainstream gaming world, so perhaps it was true.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Kyleran
     

    Yeah, I guess so, but I said allegedly because I have a hard time believing anyone could get paid for such an activity, but then again I'm really out of touch from the mainstream gaming world, so perhaps it was true.

     

    I wouldn't doubt something like that will happen. If millions buy $25 mounts, $250 for a virtual item on D3, i can believe a guild can shelf out $600 a month, if that tank is really important for the raid.

     

  • Dexter2010Dexter2010 Member UncommonPosts: 244
    Based on observation, many such people are discontent with life and go overboard with escapism. In chat, my friend asked a woman in her forties, why do you take WoW (of all games lol) so seriously? She replied, "Life sucks, my job sucks, I'm still single and live with my parents, but in WoW, I can be powerful and a somebody." A really bitchy former guild master in his thirties was late for a raid and said "Sorry, I had to stay late to clean the deep fryer twice." A dumb teenager asked me to run his guild if he started one. He didn't know how to, but wanted to order adults around for a change. Sick....
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Dexter2010
    Based on observation, many such people are discontent with life and go overboard with escapism. In chat, my friend asked a woman in her forties, why do you take WoW (of all games lol) so seriously? She replied, "Life sucks, my job sucks, I'm still single and live with my parents, but in WoW, I can be powerful and a somebody." A really bitchy former guild master in his thirties was late for a raid and said "Sorry, I had to stay late to clean the deep fryer twice." A dumb teenager asked me to run his guild if he started one. He didn't know how to, but wanted to order adults around for a change. Sick....

    No doubt. I also have stories from the opposite.

    My guild leader and his gf, got married and quit wow to start a family.

    For most people, including me, MMOs are just entertainment that have to compete with other wants of life, and other entertainment.

    Another example. This weekend i am goingt to Napa valley (taking the wine train tour) with my wife, and going to sample Iron Chef's Morimoto's restaurant. While i am taking my laptop (has to for email & potential work), i doubt i would be playing much games.

    Similarly, during summer movie seasons, i often go to movie on SAT morning with my kids. That means i would not be playing MMOs (or other video games) then. And no raid, or online group, is important enough to take me away from that.

     

  • Salio69Salio69 Member CommonPosts: 428
    i've met many of these "leet" players and have gotten to know them pretty well in games. most of them are troubled people with no jobs or are escaping from life. there are a few who are just naturally really good at the game they are playing but most of them had some really bad problems in real life. getting to know them personally also made me stop picking on them because i've seen how messed up life is for them. you'd be surprised how many of them are on anti depressants.
  • FusionFusion Member UncommonPosts: 1,398

    Some top-guilds have sponsors, enough so they can play them for living.

    Most are unemployed probably, from countries with awesome welfare systems that doesn't really require you to work for living ever.

    Some are underaged kids living at their parents with no responsibilities.

    Some are just no-lifers who work - game - work - game (i have one such friend, whom i met last weekend on a cruise and hadn't seen him in over a year).

    http://neocron-game.com/ - now totally F2P no cash-shops or micro transactions at all.
  • k11keeperk11keeper Member UncommonPosts: 1,048

    I don't know about others but for me when I was able to play the most hardcore was when I quit my fulltime while waiting to join the military. I was supposed to leave a few weeks after I quit but it turned into over 9 months when I found out i was colorblind. During that time I lived off savings and worked about 32-38 hours a week at a gas station just to barely getting by. By the end I had sold pretty much everything I owned other than my pc and my desk. Since I was so broke at the time all I did was play my MMO constantly cause I couldn't afford to do anything else.

    I've never understood how people are able to do this for years and years. Some I've known in the past go in sperts because of seasonal work. Others work that 9-5 job but literally have no activities other than playing their game. They don't date, they don't hangout with friends, they don't visit family etc. They just play their game with every bit of free time they have.

  • Dexter2010Dexter2010 Member UncommonPosts: 244
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Dexter2010
    Based on observation, many such people are discontent with life and go overboard with escapism. In chat, my friend asked a woman in her forties, why do you take WoW (of all games lol) so seriously? She replied, "Life sucks, my job sucks, I'm still single and live with my parents, but in WoW, I can be powerful and a somebody." A really bitchy former guild master in his thirties was late for a raid and said "Sorry, I had to stay late to clean the deep fryer twice." A dumb teenager asked me to run his guild if he started one. He didn't know how to, but wanted to order adults around for a change. Sick....

    No doubt. I also have stories from the opposite.

    My guild leader and his gf, got married and quit wow to start a family.

    For most people, including me, MMOs are just entertainment that have to compete with other wants of life, and other entertainment.

    Another example. This weekend i am goingt to Napa valley (taking the wine train tour) with my wife, and going to sample Iron Chef's Morimoto's restaurant. While i am taking my laptop (has to for email & potential work), i doubt i would be playing much games.

    Similarly, during summer movie seasons, i often go to movie on SAT morning with my kids. That means i would not be playing MMOs (or other video games) then. And no raid, or online group, is important enough to take me away from that.

     

    Exactly! I was out with my gf on a Friday 'til 1am. I logged in and the fry cook GM gave me shit for not being ready at the keyboard in case they needed me. I wasn't even in that raid group! Put the game down! It isn't love!

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    Originally posted by gambe1
    I knew few people that could play at work. Goverment jobs mostly. No surprise there.

    You cannot play games on a government network.

    Even gaming sites, like this one are blocked.

  • skyexileskyexile Member CommonPosts: 692

    I work full-time...just play every spare moment :P

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,823


    Originally posted by Salio69
    i've met many of these "leet" players and have gotten to know them pretty well in games. most of them are troubled people with no jobs or are escaping from life. there are a few who are just naturally really good at the game they are playing but most of them had some really bad problems in real life. getting to know them personally also made me stop picking on them because i've seen how messed up life is for them. you'd be surprised how many of them are on anti depressants.
    And many of these "leet" players that I have met and gotten to know well are just regular people. People with jobs, spouses and kids.


    They arent trying to "escape" from their real life problems, they are just playing a game and they are good at it.


    The heavy stereotyping in this thread is, unfortunately, not surprising.


    Why is it that when someone actually achieves success in an MMO the rest of the community so desperately wants to perceive them as a no life loser?

  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by gambe1
    I knew few people that could play at work. Goverment jobs mostly. No surprise there.

    You cannot play games on a government network.

    Even gaming sites, like this one are blocked.

    *Laughs uncontrollably for a few momments.*

    Yeah, sure, no way around that, nope, not at all.

     

    Anyway, while I was never into games with raiding and all that stuff. I did play some very time demanding pvp games like EVE and PERPETUUM for nearly 18 hours a day sometimes. In my case I'm a network administrator, my day consists of sitting either at home or in the office with one or monitors keeping tabs on performance and issues, and leaves me with nothing but time for games/internet until a issue arises. Honestly software takes care of almost everything today, but they have to keep someone on hand for the odd issue it can't handle.

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • The unemployment rate in Spain for people 25 and younger is 60%.  In many countries currently that age group is in the 20-25% number.

     

    What makes you think even half of any of these people does anything for a living?  Yeah at first blush you would think that well at least a majority has got to do something.  But clearly that is not a good assumption.

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430
    They have their moms, wives, husbands, etc  do the cooking, cleaning, or otherwise making booboos go away ;)

    I self identify as a monkey.

  • Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

    Actually you will find that a lot of them are in the military or some other from of work sucha s mining where they have a huge downtime in between deployment or seasonal work.

     

    All of the other response that have house husbands or mom's basement are just being mean. I'm pretty sure that population is quite small in comparison to the working population (otherwise our economies will be like the Greek's).

    They will be.  Very soon.

  • OzivoisOzivois Member UncommonPosts: 598
    Originally posted by Sijjistoryus
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    In DUST - and probably in all MMORPGs - there seems to be several hundered players who are in the top few clans or guilds. They are the elite of the game - by a large margin - and they seem to play the game like it's a job. 

     

    If there is a tournament, their clans will be the top few teams.

     

    If you want to join them, the expectation is that you play the game like it's a job as well.

     

    But how do these people find the time? What do they do for a living?

     

    I'm just curious as to whether anyone has an insight into this.

    I played in these clans when I was very young. I remember my teammates like this:

     

    #1. A few of them were just graduating HS. If they did have a job, if was something like a part-time stock boy. Understandable for a 16-17 year old.

    #2. A few members of the guild were millionares. I remember one of them telling me how he had started and sold a CISCO-related network company for a few million. He had everything paid off, money in the bank, and time on his hands.

    #3. Most of the players all had jobs. They were married, too. After they worked for 8 hours, they simply played. I think some of them might have had some marriage issues. No all, though.

    #4. Some just lived at home with little to no responsibilities.

    #3: They aren't married anymore...

  • CnameCname Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    There's no one making a living playing MMOs though.

    Lots of gold farmers made a living through MMOs - through one might argue they are not really  "playing".

    "A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Novusod

    A lot of the hard core raiders especially put in LESS hours than casuals because they play hard and play to win. I have seen both sides as I have spent years raiding with casuals as well as a couple years raiding hard core. The idea that hard core gamers must be basement dwellers is largely a myth. Most hardcore players were adults with jobs.

     

    Hard core guilds are just very efficient and ultimately just better than casuals. They are not there for the friendships or other socializing. If someone is not pulling their weight in a hard core raid guild they get kicked out. Getting rid of slackers, Leeroy Jenkins types, and all arround bad players makes top guilds extremely efficient. Casuals often complain that it takes an hour just to form up a raid but the reality is in a hard core guild form up is done in less than 5 minutes. They get in, get the job done, and then go home. It is surprising how much can be accomplished if there is zero tollerance for fooling arround.

     

    Hard core players make gaming a lifestyle. This means they will take vaction time off when new content is released especially if there is a level cap in crease. The may put in marathon sessions for a few days but when that is over they are back to raiding just a couple hours for 3 or 4 days a week. The difference between hard core and casual is not the time spent but that the hard core player takes the game very seriously.

    Right, this is how it works with us. I do not play a lot, nor do many of our guild members, but still we can maintain being a top guild.

    When there is a level uncap we do play a lot, but again it's far more productive than casuals. I have the people who I play with on my messenger, I know when they're on, I know when they're asleep, as they do from me. Before a new expansion we log off fully buffed and our group is ready, we have planned out how we are going to level, we have planed out reserves if someone doesn't show up, we have planned out how long we will level etc. and we will play 8-10 hours in a row, but those are the only days we do that, every other day we play far less than some casuals.

    We raid 3-4 hours and log off, raid 3-4 hours, log off, raid 3-4 hours, log off. This system of logging on on the same time and setting up groups and raids in minutes is a very productive way to play MMO.

    3-4 hours 5 times a week is not a lot of playtime compared to casuals, but a casual is still looking for a group after 30 minutes while most raid guilds have gathered 54 peple in 2 minutes and have taken out a raid mob by then.

    It's not because top guilds play more, it's their structure, their playstyle, the very srong bond and organisation skill they use to come together at the exact same time and their intolernace for anyone who doesn't abide by those same rules.

     

    I will say that there are raiders in top guilds who simply play a lot, there are players who play non-stop, but this is not the case for the majority in our guild, 90% of the players log in for raid, raid and log off. they do not stay on to play, they have a job and don't have the time to play longer than 3-4 hours, but in those 3-4 hours, they are highly effective at contributing to the guild, far more effective than a casual who play 10 hours but log in at random times without consistency.

     

    It's the same difference between casual guilds and top guilds when a new character enters the guild. In most casual guilds that player is left to fend for her / himself. In top guild every new character that comes in is immediatly "corrected", any missing xp or flags are checked and if that person is lacking anything they are immediately helped by good players in the guild who are good at powerleveling and going through missions as fast as possible. That player will be ready to play in a matter of days, while in casual guilds that player is still figuring out who to group with. When a new player comes into the guild who is not ready an officer will take the initiative and tell members of the guild to stop what they're doing and join the group with the newbee, and you play with this new character until they're ready and then go back to your regular group within the guild.

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