I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?
Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.
Diablo 2 was played for over a decade by a substantial percentage of its playerbase... Diablo 3 has been out how long and shows a 90% player drop off.
Games in the ARPG genre are designed to be played for a very long time. sure there will always be people that play through it once and leave but certainly not 90%.
That number shows me that there were a lot of people that bought the game coming from Diablo 2 and were disappointed.
D2 did not have the on-line competition there is today. I'm not saying D2 wasn't awesome, I'm saying gamers have more choices now than they once did.
Also, the type of players that internet in almost every home has broght in is different then the old days. I can see people getting internet for the sole purpose of playing D2, where as today, playing games on-line is just another thing to do.
I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?
Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.
Diablo 2 was played for over a decade by a substantial percentage of its playerbase... Diablo 3 has been out how long and shows a 90% player drop off.
Games in the ARPG genre are designed to be played for a very long time. sure there will always be people that play through it once and leave but certainly not 90%.
That number shows me that there were a lot of people that bought the game coming from Diablo 2 and were disappointed.
D2 did not have the on-line competition there is today. I'm not saying D2 wasn't awesome, I'm saying gamers have more choices now than they once did.
Also, the type of players that internet in almost every home has broght in is different then the old days. I can see people getting internet for the sole purpose of playing D2, where as today, playing games on-line is just another thing to do.
Thats true but its still a large drop off. Diablo 3 should have been much better than what it was. It was still good but due to certain design decisions the games lifespan was cut short for quite a few people.
Look at Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile. Those two games are nowhere as popular as Diablo but they both have mechanics that keep existing players playing. Be it randomized content, Maps, crafting and/or online competiton.
Diablo 3 is seriously lacking in features. Look at gamespy.com and on the front page they compare all three games unique features. only features that make D3 unique are the AH and free respecs... thats terrible imo.
And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again.
Before ranting at me, I jest.
Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?
I am one of those millions.
One simply can't argue against quality games.
Sales do not necessarily mean quality.
McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.
Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk
Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.
Rowling sells more books than Goethe.
I guess you get the idea.
And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.
McDonalds may be a low cost leader
Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience
Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.
With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.
And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.
I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.
If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.
Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.
I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.
And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.
Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.
Originally posted by dimnikar Hilarous how people start with conspiracy theories about fake numbers with the sub definition disclaimer right there in the first post.
I am simply FORCED to conclude the vast majority of you here are incapable of comprehending text.
It's not even legalese, for Pete's sake.
Oh, most people dont think Blizzard is lying they just think that Asian subscribers shouldnt count because "Asian" automatically means Chinese and Chinese players pay "pennies on the hour".
They then have a "well thought out and researched" reason as to why Chinese subscribers comprise "80% to 90%" of total WoW subscribers.
And if you point out something like "wait, then how can WoW make $1 billion a year in revenue if 90% of the player base subscribes for pennies?" well theres a perfectly "logical" answer for that too. Its because Blizzard "steals" from its players by charging for services like server transfers and race changes or selling mounts.
Because as we all know selling mounts or pets once a year that generates a couple million in cash adds up to a billion every year.
For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cod_Eye
And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again.
Before ranting at me, I jest.
Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?
I am one of those millions.
One simply can't argue against quality games.
Sales do not necessarily mean quality.
McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.
Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk
Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.
Rowling sells more books than Goethe.
I guess you get the idea.
And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.
McDonalds may be a low cost leader
Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience
Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.
With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.
And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.
I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.
If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.
Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.
I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.
And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.
Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.
The problem is that "quality" is very subjective. One person's opinion is not worth more than another. So if you don't like WoW but another person likes WoW, who is right? Just because you don't like some of the top selling products that doesn't make them bad. I don't see why you think your opinion is any more valid than someone else's?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Look at Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile. Those two games are nowhere as popular as Diablo but they both have mechanics that keep existing players playing. Be it randomized content, Maps, crafting and/or online competiton.
Diablo 3 is seriously lacking in features. Look at gamespy.com and on the front page they compare all three games unique features. only features that make D3 unique are the AH and free respecs... thats terrible imo.
And yet where is TL2? #141 on xfire. If you look at the graph, the decline is much steeper than D3. In fact, TL2 is LOWER in rank than D2.
So much about keeping existing players. D3 is doing much better than TL2.
As much as people would like to compare Borderlands 2 to a Diablo like game it in no way has the replay value of a game like D3, PoE or TL2... its a FPS you play a few times and uninstall... its like Darksiders 2. A game with decent replay value that shares similarities with diablo but its really only a action game made to be played a few times. So it makes no sense to compare them.
And yet Borderland 2 is much higher on the xfire chart than TL2. If you look at the graph, it also retains players BETTER than Tl2.
So i would say you are wrong. It has better replay value than TL2, just not as much as D3.
Originally posted by dimnikar Hilarous how people start with conspiracy theories about fake numbers with the sub definition disclaimer right there in the first post.
I am simply FORCED to conclude the vast majority of you here are incapable of comprehending text.
It's not even legalese, for Pete's sake.
Oh, most people dont think Blizzard is lying they just think that Asian subscribers shouldnt count because "Asian" automatically means Chinese and Chinese players pay "pennies on the hour".
They then have a "well thought out and researched" reason as to why Chinese subscribers comprise "80% to 90%" of total WoW subscribers.
And if you point out something like "wait, then how can WoW make $1 billion a year in revenue if 90% of the player base subscribes for pennies?" well theres a perfectly "logical" answer for that too. Its because Blizzard "steals" from its players by charging for services like server transfers and race changes or selling mounts.
Because as we all know selling mounts or pets once a year that generates a couple million in cash adds up to a billion every year.
For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cod_Eye
And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again.
Before ranting at me, I jest.
Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?
I am one of those millions.
One simply can't argue against quality games.
Sales do not necessarily mean quality.
McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.
Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk
Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.
Rowling sells more books than Goethe.
I guess you get the idea.
And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.
McDonalds may be a low cost leader
Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience
Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.
With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.
And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.
I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.
If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.
Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.
I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.
And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.
Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.
The problem is that "quality" is very subjective. One person's opinion is not worth more than another. So if you don't like WoW but another person likes WoW, who is right? Just because you don't like some of the top selling products that doesn't make them bad. I don't see why you think your opinion is any more valid than someone else's?
I did say I am aware it's just a matter of taste, didn't I. And I never said that my opinion is more valid that anybody else's. It's just that that sales are not a valid argument when discussing quality. Simple as. WoW players are always using sales as an argument to support their opinion about their game beeing good. Well, sorry but I won't consider that a valid argument. Or, as we say in my country, "millions of flies can't be wrong: eat shit and fly".
Originally posted by fivoroth For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.
Chinese buy time cards with certain amount of hours on them. Last time I checked the currency conversion came out to $.08 an hour.
However, Taiwan has a monthly subscription, around $10 a month. The Taiwan version also doesnt have the crazy restrictions set by the Chinese government so any Chinese players serious about the game plays the Taiwanese version.
My monthy sub is about 50 cents a day. If the Chinese are paying 8 cents an hour, that isn't THAT far off of what they would pay for 4 hours a day average. And it would be more if they played for extended amounts of time.
Originally posted by Psychow My monthy sub is about 50 cents a day. If the Chinese are paying 8 cents an hour, that isn't THAT far off of what they would pay for 4 hours a day average. And it would be more if they played for extended amounts of time.
....actually that would be about six hours fifteen minutes a day on average. Quite substantial really, particularly with normal working hours in China and a different Internet charging scheme.
Originally posted by Psychow My monthy sub is about 50 cents a day. If the Chinese are paying 8 cents an hour, that isn't THAT far off of what they would pay for 4 hours a day average. And it would be more if they played for extended amounts of time.
....actually that would be about six hours fifteen minutes a day on average. Quite substantial really, particularly with normal working hours in China and a different Internet charging scheme.
But not so substanial as to completely discount the Chinese subscribers from the announced 9.6 million. The point is the sub numbers are as solid as any other companys sub numbers are, so the people who claim the sub numbers are BS are just down-right wrong.
Originally posted by Psychow My monthy sub is about 50 cents a day. If the Chinese are paying 8 cents an hour, that isn't THAT far off of what they would pay for 4 hours a day average. And it would be more if they played for extended amounts of time.
....actually that would be about six hours fifteen minutes a day on average. Quite substantial really, particularly with normal working hours in China and a different Internet charging scheme.
But not so substanial as to completely discount the Chinese subscribers from the announced 9.6 million. The point is the sub numbers are as solid as any other companys sub numbers are, so the people who claim the sub numbers are BS are just down-right wrong.
sorry there did not mean to imply that Chinese sub scribers are not worth counting, Just got nit picky on the accounting (old habbits die hard). International players are important to any MMO and a publisher that ignores them to concentrate on its home market will miss out big time.
I played Wow for 6yrs but the pandas were enough to me...
I bought diablo 3 played 2 charcs to inferno then i asked for a refund, and blizzard gave it to me, wrote them a open letter so big that they only said sorry to dissapointing me.
Blizzard is dead for me since Activision got into their bussiness, but hey! the same company that makes Call of Duty and Guitar Hero cant be bad right!?
You played TWO characters to inferno and you still ask for a refund? What is wrong with you?
And yes, some COD are very fun games.
I asked for a refund because i was in the right to do it.
Today most of my friends regrets they didnt do the same thing.
Diablo 3 was a very dissapointing game for me,i explained why and they understood that.
Yeah .. he played it to Inferno .. for TWO characters. That means max level. If it is so disappoiting, why spent so much time on it? I can understand if he played for 5 hours and did not like it, but level TWO characters to inferno?
He likes it enough to spend 10s of hours. It is just disengenous to play a game for 10s of hours, and turn around and ask for a refund.
I have my reasons, blizzard made a arpg that is fun to lv until you get to the endgame grind, an arpg is, atleast for me, a continuous search for better gear and builds, the AH and the linear skill tree ruined that exp. It took less then a month playing 3 or 4hrs a day to get those two charcs, nothing special my friend.
Why are you so upset anyway, it has nothing to do with your opinion i was only showing a fact that happened to me.
According to the online sales law you are entitled to a refund in the first 30days if the company cant deliver the promised service.
I have a lot of outstanding games I have purchased over the years and no longer play. Does that mean they suck or make them any less awesome than when I purchased them?
Believe it or not, many people play a game, beat it and move on. They have no intention of making every gaming purchase a lifelong commitment. If current users are down, it's because people are done with the game and have moved on to the next one.
Diablo 2 was played for over a decade by a substantial percentage of its playerbase... Diablo 3 has been out how long and shows a 90% player drop off.
Games in the ARPG genre are designed to be played for a very long time. sure there will always be people that play through it once and leave but certainly not 90%.
That number shows me that there were a lot of people that bought the game coming from Diablo 2 and were disappointed.
You meant "Point N Click Multiplayer PC Action RPG" because your statement is certainly not true for a general ARPG.
Diablo 3 sells over 12 million, WoW has over 9.6 million subscribers, Blizzard is building the Death Star - join us and embrace the darkness.
Dammit, you just leaked what Project Titan is!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
For the calendar year, Blizzard Entertainment had two top-10 PC games in North America and Europe.
Diablo III was the #1 best-selling PC game at retail, breaking PC game sales records with more than 12 million copies sold worldwide through December 31, 2012, and World of Warcraft®: Mists of Pandaria® was the #3 best-selling PC game at retail.
As of December 31, 2012, Blizzard Entertainment’s World of Warcraft remains the #1 subscription-based MMORPG, with more than 9.6 million subscribers.
Please read below and inform yourself before discussing WoW's subscription numbers
World of Warcraft’s Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
9.6 million? Nice! So I should ignore the people on the WoW forums that complain about their servers being dead and begging for mergers?
Green is not your colour. But it is the colour of money, so...Something you wish you had like blizzard!
Why do you care about blizzard's money, it is not like you have any benefits out of their money progress. EA have even more money, want to talk about them maybe? Maybe you will feel better then by buying fifa 14.
People should stop supporting any companies, the game is the important point... atleast on this page.
For me it was alot about the greed of blizzard that made me hate them and there games.
In WOW you have to pay for the game and all of its expansions, fine! but you also have to pay a subscripion fee, ok mayby if its good! but hen there are cash shops aswell where you have to pay, hmm! and transfers of players costs. WOW is to much money for me to play, I play GW2 insteed and spend my money on a car
Funny how the people who love the game so much need to dig through the deepest trash bins to find evidence that other people are playing their game. Just do a /who wherever you are in game and count the number of players you know that are playing, I doubt you will reach the number 10.
You are spoofed into believing there are actually more players playing than their actually are through the LFR, LFG, BG queues, and CRZ.
I stupidly bought MoP two weeks ago because a friend talked me into it... he doesn't even log on but once a week. I do a /who of all the big guilds on the server and I come up with maybe 10 people per online... usually much less. LFR, LFG, BG queues, and CRZ hide the fact that maybe only a hundred people are playing on your server. They could merge 50% of their servers together and still not generate a queue at login. There's nothing massive about WoW anymore... just the cost to play it.
Diablo 3 sells over 12 million and WOW has over 9.6 subs but how many of those are still playing. Is there a site that shows active playing numbers? I have a feeling Diablo 3 might have about 500k - 1 million still actually playing on a regular basis.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by Briansho Diablo 3 sells over 12 million and WOW has over 9.6 subs but how many of those are still playing. Is there a site that shows active playing numbers? I have a feeling Diablo 3 might have about 500k - 1 million still actually playing on a regular basis.
There is no site for the actual players number.
However, many here uses x-fire ranking. While the x-file number is just a sample of online players, the ranking gives you some idea of the relative player population of the games.
As of today, WOW is #4, and D3 is #10. This site tracks all online games, not just MMOs. The most popular online game is LOL, with 5x the play-time compared to WOW.
In WOW you have to pay for the game and all of its expansions, fine! but you also have to pay a subscripion fee, ok mayby if its good! but hen there are cash shops aswell where you have to pay, hmm! and transfers of players costs. WOW is to much money for me to play, I play GW2 insteed and spend my money on a car
Then you must love D3. Not only it is only a one-time $60, you can probably make it back from the RMAH if you play enough. I did.
What is better than doing something that is fun, and occasionally it will also pay you money?
Originally posted by dimnikar Hilarous how people start with conspiracy theories about fake numbers with the sub definition disclaimer right there in the first post.
I am simply FORCED to conclude the vast majority of you here are incapable of comprehending text.
It's not even legalese, for Pete's sake.
Oh, most people dont think Blizzard is lying they just think that Asian subscribers shouldnt count because "Asian" automatically means Chinese and Chinese players pay "pennies on the hour".
They then have a "well thought out and researched" reason as to why Chinese subscribers comprise "80% to 90%" of total WoW subscribers.
And if you point out something like "wait, then how can WoW make $1 billion a year in revenue if 90% of the player base subscribes for pennies?" well theres a perfectly "logical" answer for that too. Its because Blizzard "steals" from its players by charging for services like server transfers and race changes or selling mounts.
Because as we all know selling mounts or pets once a year that generates a couple million in cash adds up to a billion every year.
For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cod_Eye
And over 11 million are dissapointed and vow to never buy a Blizzard product again.
Before ranting at me, I jest.
Want to bet millions will buy Heart of the Swarm, and the D3 expansion?
I am one of those millions.
One simply can't argue against quality games.
Sales do not necessarily mean quality.
McDonnalds sells more food than Ferran Adria.
Vin Diesel sells more movies than Kim Ki Duk
Justin Bieber sells more CDs than Dream Theater.
Rowling sells more books than Goethe.
I guess you get the idea.
And yet, sales also does not mean it's NOT high quality.
McDonalds may be a low cost leader
Vin Diesel and Justin Beiber movies/ "music" are aimed at a certain target audience
Rowling are aimed at Young Adults that adults also enjoy.
With the exception of McDonalds, none of those things mean poor quality. It just means different people have different tastes or are not so full of themselves that they allow themselves to enjoy more than one type of thing.
And Blizzard games are aimed at certain type of players, which was exactly my point.
I your point is that the target audience are: People who like to play MMO's, have fun and are willing to pay a subscription, then I agree with you.
If your point is the target audience is: Stupid, mindless, riff-raff that wouldn't know a quality product if it hit them in the face, then I don't agree with you.
Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.
I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.
And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.
Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.
The problem is that "quality" is very subjective. One person's opinion is not worth more than another. So if you don't like WoW but another person likes WoW, who is right? Just because you don't like some of the top selling products that doesn't make them bad. I don't see why you think your opinion is any more valid than someone else's?
I did say I am aware it's just a matter of taste, didn't I. And I never said that my opinion is more valid that anybody else's. It's just that that sales are not a valid argument when discussing quality. Simple as. WoW players are always using sales as an argument to support their opinion about their game beeing good. Well, sorry but I won't consider that a valid argument. Or, as we say in my country, "millions of flies can't be wrong: eat shit and fly".
I've considered WoW to be in the same class and quality of Honey Boo Boo, Justin Bieber, The Kardashians, and American Idol millions may play and watch them but doesn't account for their questionable taste. Whether people want to admit it or not despite the defensiveness people go at great lengths to defend this stuff due to " Your taste and my taste" there is such a thing as just having terrbile taste in things you like.
Comments
D2 did not have the on-line competition there is today. I'm not saying D2 wasn't awesome, I'm saying gamers have more choices now than they once did.
Also, the type of players that internet in almost every home has broght in is different then the old days. I can see people getting internet for the sole purpose of playing D2, where as today, playing games on-line is just another thing to do.
Thats true but its still a large drop off. Diablo 3 should have been much better than what it was. It was still good but due to certain design decisions the games lifespan was cut short for quite a few people.
Look at Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile. Those two games are nowhere as popular as Diablo but they both have mechanics that keep existing players playing. Be it randomized content, Maps, crafting and/or online competiton.
Diablo 3 is seriously lacking in features. Look at gamespy.com and on the front page they compare all three games unique features. only features that make D3 unique are the AH and free respecs... thats terrible imo.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Unfortunately, when I look at the top selling food, movies, books, music and games, I do think that the vast majority of people won't know a quality product even if you rubbed it against their face. Call me elitist if you will. To be honest, looking at our society in general, I can't help thinking that way.
I got nothing against those who enjoy poor food, music, books, movies and games, it's their choice and they are free to enjoy whatever they prefer, but they won't convince me that what they like is quality.
And I am aware that it's just a matter of taste. Going back to my analogies, I can understand those who say that Ferran Adria's food is pretentious, Kim Ki Duk's movies slow, Dream Theater's music too complex and Goethe's books boring. I can also understand those who play WoW.
Sumarizing, my point is that sales and quality are different things, and that Blizzard games selling millions does not necessarily mean that such games are any good.
For some reason people on these boards dismiss Asian people and they don't consider them to be "players" so if WoW has 5m Chinese players then that, in their eyes, equates to nothing. But I have not seen ONE post on these boards who can explain or point to any evidence how Chinese players pay for WoW and we also don't have any figures for how much they spend. For some reason the "racist" posters on these boards assume Chinese players pay 10 cents per month lol.
The problem is that "quality" is very subjective. One person's opinion is not worth more than another. So if you don't like WoW but another person likes WoW, who is right? Just because you don't like some of the top selling products that doesn't make them bad. I don't see why you think your opinion is any more valid than someone else's?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
And yet where is TL2? #141 on xfire. If you look at the graph, the decline is much steeper than D3. In fact, TL2 is LOWER in rank than D2.
So much about keeping existing players. D3 is doing much better than TL2.
Now as for PoE, we shall see in 10 months.
And yet Borderland 2 is much higher on the xfire chart than TL2. If you look at the graph, it also retains players BETTER than Tl2.
So i would say you are wrong. It has better replay value than TL2, just not as much as D3.
I did say I am aware it's just a matter of taste, didn't I. And I never said that my opinion is more valid that anybody else's. It's just that that sales are not a valid argument when discussing quality. Simple as. WoW players are always using sales as an argument to support their opinion about their game beeing good. Well, sorry but I won't consider that a valid argument. Or, as we say in my country, "millions of flies can't be wrong: eat shit and fly".
However, Taiwan has a monthly subscription, around $10 a month. The Taiwan version also doesnt have the crazy restrictions set by the Chinese government so any Chinese players serious about the game plays the Taiwanese version.
....actually that would be about six hours fifteen minutes a day on average. Quite substantial really, particularly with normal working hours in China and a different Internet charging scheme.
But not so substanial as to completely discount the Chinese subscribers from the announced 9.6 million. The point is the sub numbers are as solid as any other companys sub numbers are, so the people who claim the sub numbers are BS are just down-right wrong.
sorry there did not mean to imply that Chinese sub scribers are not worth counting, Just got nit picky on the accounting (old habbits die hard). International players are important to any MMO and a publisher that ignores them to concentrate on its home market will miss out big time.
I have my reasons, blizzard made a arpg that is fun to lv until you get to the endgame grind, an arpg is, atleast for me, a continuous search for better gear and builds, the AH and the linear skill tree ruined that exp. It took less then a month playing 3 or 4hrs a day to get those two charcs, nothing special my friend.
Why are you so upset anyway, it has nothing to do with your opinion i was only showing a fact that happened to me.
According to the online sales law you are entitled to a refund in the first 30days if the company cant deliver the promised service.
Beta tester maniac
You meant "Point N Click Multiplayer PC Action RPG" because your statement is certainly not true for a general ARPG.
Diablo 3 sells over 12 million, WoW has over 9.6 million subscribers, Blizzard is building the Death Star - join us and embrace the darkness.
Dammit, you just leaked what Project Titan is!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
9.6 million? Nice! So I should ignore the people on the WoW forums that complain about their servers being dead and begging for mergers?
i knew it was only a matter of time! Disney and Blizzard are scheming together
EQ2 fan sites
For me it was alot about the greed of blizzard that made me hate them and there games.
In WOW you have to pay for the game and all of its expansions, fine! but you also have to pay a subscripion fee, ok mayby if its good! but hen there are cash shops aswell where you have to pay, hmm! and transfers of players costs. WOW is to much money for me to play, I play GW2 insteed and spend my money on a car
Funny how the people who love the game so much need to dig through the deepest trash bins to find evidence that other people are playing their game. Just do a /who wherever you are in game and count the number of players you know that are playing, I doubt you will reach the number 10.
You are spoofed into believing there are actually more players playing than their actually are through the LFR, LFG, BG queues, and CRZ.
I stupidly bought MoP two weeks ago because a friend talked me into it... he doesn't even log on but once a week. I do a /who of all the big guilds on the server and I come up with maybe 10 people per online... usually much less. LFR, LFG, BG queues, and CRZ hide the fact that maybe only a hundred people are playing on your server. They could merge 50% of their servers together and still not generate a queue at login. There's nothing massive about WoW anymore... just the cost to play it.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
There is no site for the actual players number.
However, many here uses x-fire ranking. While the x-file number is just a sample of online players, the ranking gives you some idea of the relative player population of the games.
As of today, WOW is #4, and D3 is #10. This site tracks all online games, not just MMOs. The most popular online game is LOL, with 5x the play-time compared to WOW.
Then you must love D3. Not only it is only a one-time $60, you can probably make it back from the RMAH if you play enough. I did.
What is better than doing something that is fun, and occasionally it will also pay you money?
I've considered WoW to be in the same class and quality of Honey Boo Boo, Justin Bieber, The Kardashians, and American Idol millions may play and watch them but doesn't account for their questionable taste. Whether people want to admit it or not despite the defensiveness people go at great lengths to defend this stuff due to " Your taste and my taste" there is such a thing as just having terrbile taste in things you like.