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GW2 why the story implementation works(for me)

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  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by grimal

    As for immersion-breaking, neither is really the better option.  The problem, for me, is by making this change they really didn't improve upon it as significantly as I'm sure they wanted to.

    Would it hurt your "forum reputation" to make concessions and admit the obvious sometimes?

    It's pretty obvious that both are very different approaches to world content (aka "questing", if you like). And this comes from someone who is playing both WoW (2 active accounts) and GW2. The WoW model is nice for many things, but when it comes to world content, it doesn't come even remotely close to GW2, where you never known in what state you're going to find a location, where everything is in perpetual movement even when you're not there (aka "dynamic").

    Can it be done even better? No doubt, and I hope games like TESO will do it somehow. But the step forward between the WoW clone model we got served in all more or less successful games these last 8 years and the GW2 model, if we consider open world content, is HUGE. I still enjoy WoW, but 75% of my gaming time is in GW2, because after a GW2 session, I have a very hard time going back to the static world in WoW

     

    PS @ Aerowyn about hearts : yes, and also, most if not all hearts have several possible ways to be completed, as opposed to the "go kill 10 wolves" of WoW clones where you don't have any choice but to actually go kill those wolves. How many theme parks give you those options in their quest system beside GW2? From what I know, none.

    First off, don't tell me how or what I should think.  That annoys me more than anything else.

    Second, it's not the "obvious" because it's your opinion not mine.  I liked the inital change at first but when I look back it offers nothing significantly better than the traditional npc quests.  They both serve the same end-result and after you've done each through, one really isn't any better than the other as far as I'm concerned.

    You're also over praising the innovation in what they did.  It was a sideways shift (maybe slightly forward), but it most certainly was not HUGE.  Methinks perhaps you may still be in that honeymoon phase.

  • C1d0sC1d0s Marshall, TXPosts: 238Member

    Whenever a thread about GW2 starts, I can always count on one of two people being in it.

    I was not disappointed.

    On topic: The story, both in implementation and quality, I found absolutely dreadful. And that's not a rip on GW, as I find pretty much every modern MMO's story rather bland and tasteless. That said, Guild Wars 2's personal stories ( I've done all the starting variations ) were entirely unimaginative and had absolutely no impact on my immersion. I'd much prefer there be NO personal story.

    image
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by C1d0s

    Whenever a thread about GW2 starts, I can always count on one of two people being in it.

    I was not disappointed.

    On topic: The story, both in implementation and quality, I found absolutely dreadful. And that's not a rip on GW, as I find pretty much every modern MMO's story rather bland and tasteless. That said, Guild Wars 2's personal stories ( I've done all the starting variations ) were entirely unimaginative and had absolutely no impact on my immersion. I'd much prefer there be NO personal story.

    your "on topic" is not really on topic at all.. know last couple posts weren't really on topic but either way quality of the story was not the topic of this post at all

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    While your correct at the end, she has been selling and hyping this game since she joined.

    What if she is just... you know, talking about a game she's enjoying? What a surprise... she talks about it positively, and she talks about it on the appropriate forum too. Does that compute?

    Seeings as you just joined this year, maybe your not aware of it, or maybe your just blindly believe whoever agrees with you.  Check out post history, it isn't difficult to see a pattern.  If there wasn't one, why would anyone bring it up? Oh yeah I forgot everyones out to get GW2 aren't they....

    As for the question I think without the story quests there'd be little to drive me forward in the game.  While ignoring it is optional, to a point,(you could level completely in WvWvW, if you have the stomach for it), I'd say it would be awkward to skip it for the pace of the leveling zones.  You pretty much have to repeat events to get further along in a zone and without the story quests you'd be further away from getting to those other heart areas.

    This is wrong. You don't need the story quests even though the rewards are nice so it's just free gear and gold for you, and you do not need to farm events either. Anyone saying he needs to repeat events to level up a character is not playing the game the right way.

    Utter bullshit, honest I get sick and tried of people like you saying, 'your doing it wrong', as some catch all defence when you feel threatened. if I'm in Kessex Hills and I decide to level up in that area you reckon I could level up from level 15-25 via just hearts and one or two events and avoid the story quests? You need to repeat stuff to be within a level or two to have a chance at the later zone heart quests.  Trying to make out that you only need to do stuff like events once is just outright lies.

    Other games do this thing as thing, (you don't have to do the main quests in TSW or the story quests in SWTOR,) although you'd be missing out in those games and I feel the same about GW2.  There generally an interesting solo challenge and while the story is lackluster at times at least it gives my character context. Without it I would be moving from one zerg fest to another and the xp rewards are crucial for progression IMO. 

    The XP rewards from the story in SW:TOR are much more crucial for progression than in GW2 for a simple reason... SW:TOR has no dynamic events, and SW:TOR has no level downscaling. GW2 broke those restrictions all WoW clones have, and gives more "freedom" to the player than any "theme park" MMORPG before. That's pretty much why I hope future "theme parks" will use GW2 has base more than WoW.

    You mean SWTOR has no repeatable events that are on timers? That's true, but it has space missions and other planet within level range and more dungeons before lv30.  GW2 has other areas to level as well, but the actual areas don't seem to have enough unique content to level in, for the level range they quote.  GW2 basically expects you to do a bit of everything to level up, some crafting, some of the story quests, some wvwvw, events/hearts, while other games like SWTOR or TSW give you the option of playing one way or another. I'm not sure you'd define that as freedom really.

    The thing is there's nothing wrong with that at all, I actually like GW2 for the most part, it's a fun game.  I just don't understand why some people can't discuss it without feeling like you just insulted their mother.

     

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimal

    First off, don't tell me how or what I should think.  That annoys me more than anything else.

    Second, it's not the "obvious" because it's your opinion not mine.  I liked the inital change at first but when I look back it offers nothing significantly better than the traditional npc quests.  They both serve the same end-result and after you've done each through, one really isn't any better than the other as far as I'm concerned.

    You're also over praising the innovation in what they did.  It was a sideways shift (maybe slightly forward), but it most certainly was not HUGE.  Methinks perhaps you may still be in that honeymoon phase.

    I don't tell you how to think, but I'm a too old man not to recognize biased thinking when I see it.  When one refuses to accept even a tiny bit of the obvious, it's clear that he's biased and on an agenda.

    Second... let's go for it. Your liking of this game is irrelevant here, your opinion too, we talk about facts. Just like a white horse and a black horse are of a different color... not an opinion, a fact. And GW2 having a significantly different approach to "questing" than your usual "WoW clone" or "Theme Park MMO" is not an opinion, it's an undeniable fact. We don't talk about what is better (which is opinion indeed), we talk about what is different (which is fact, 1 is not equal to 2).

    Last... I've been playing MMORPGs since the early days of UO beta (and text MUDs before too)... I'm not a victim of "honeymoons". I never play MMORPGs I dislike for 6+ months... and GW2 is in its 6th month, still as fun as day one to me. And let me tell you it's quite actually funny that you start by tellling me to not (supposedly) tell you what you should think (which I didn't do), and then you end your post by telling me what I'm (supposedly) thinking. Pot calling the kettle black?

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Omnifish
     

    Seeings as you just joined this year, maybe your not aware of it, or maybe your just blindly believe whoever agrees with you.  Check out post history, it isn't difficult to see a pattern.  If there wasn't one, why would anyone bring it up? Oh yeah I forgot everyones out to get GW2 aren't they....

     

    you are welcome to go all the way back and look at the start of my post history.. i did not even hardly talk about gw2 at all until i played the first BWE event then i was hooked on the game after actually playing the game.. i mostly talked about TERA and TSW till the BWEs were out.. now i'm interested in a lot of new games as you can see i talk about neverwinter a lot and wildstar and others i'm interested in.. don't see how talking about games you like and are interested in is a "pattern"

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Omnifish
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Omnifish

    While your correct at the end, she has been selling and hyping this game since she joined.

    What if she is just... you know, talking about a game she's enjoying? What a surprise... she talks about it positively, and she talks about it on the appropriate forum too. Does that compute?

    Seeings as you just joined this year, maybe your not aware of it, or maybe your just blindly believe whoever agrees with you.  Check out post history, it isn't difficult to see a pattern.  If there wasn't one, why would anyone bring it up? Oh yeah I forgot everyones out to get GW2 aren't they....

    I've been here for a long time, but I don't like to get used to an account and post count for too long... you get bad habits from it, like, for instance, think your join date or post count mean something, which you just did.  I've reset my account recently and reset my "anonymous" status, like I regularly do. If you want to know it all, I was posting here 7 years before you created your present account. I know Aerowyn very well, and I know her posting habits... she's a fan of this game posting on this game's forums. As I said, I enjoy her posts way more than those of the trolls who only come here now and then to bash the game with lies and misinformation. At least she is trying to be constructive and work positively for the community.

    Rule #1 in a debate... never use assumptions if you don't want them to backfire on you.

    The rest of your post doesn't deserve an answer, since I would have to repeat what I've said in my previous post. Yes, you're doing something wrong if you need to "grind" events to level. If you play the game right, you never have to do the same event twice on a character. If you play the game wrong, like a WoW clone, which the game is NOT, then indeed you will encounter the boredom the WoW clone playstyle engenders. It's up to you, it's not the game's fault.

     

    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    ... don't see how talking about games you like and are interested in is a "pattern"

    It's is a pattern... but a very positive one. Instead of trying to "bury" the games you dislike because you somehow think they don't deserve to be praised or even just to exist, you discuss the games you enjoy. If more people would use your posting habits as example on this site, these forums would be a much better place. Those who try to lecture you on your posting habits actually should use you as an example for theirs. Me included, most likely.

    Sorry for another OT post, Aerowyn, but each time you post something positive, you get bashed by the same usual suspects, mostly with nonsense and misinformation or opinions presented as facts, along with the usual very convenient reading comprehension failure, and I just can't stand it. See you around.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by Omnifish
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Omnifish

     

    Utter bullshit, honest I get sick and tried of people like you saying, 'your doing it wrong', as some catch all defence when you feel threatened. if I'm in Kessex Hills and I decide to level up in that area you reckon I could level up from level 15-25 via just hearts and one or two events and avoid the story quests? You need to repeat stuff to be within a level or two to have a chance at the later zone heart quests.  Trying to make out that you only need to do stuff like events once is just outright lies.

     

    Actually you are wrong here ...I levelled up three characters and never duplicated a zone or repeated a heart quest or DE and never did any personal story past level 10.... although I did bring all my characters to Lion's Arch just for convenience sake. Not sure what all the hostility is about on your end?....I don't think you did it wrong , you just didn't do it right !!

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by Omnifish
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Omnifish

     

    Utter bullshit, honest I get sick and tried of people like you saying, 'your doing it wrong', as some catch all defence when you feel threatened. if I'm in Kessex Hills and I decide to level up in that area you reckon I could level up from level 15-25 via just hearts and one or two events and avoid the story quests? You need to repeat stuff to be within a level or two to have a chance at the later zone heart quests.  Trying to make out that you only need to do stuff like events once is just outright lies.

     

    Actually you are wrong here ...I levelled up three characters and never duplicated a zone or repeated a heart quest or DE and never did any personal story past level 10.... although I did bring all my characters to Lion's Arch just for convenience sake. Not sure what all the hostility is about on your end?....I don't think you did it wrong , you just didn't do it right !!

    not only that you could level a character doing just WvW and after a few characters you could level to 80 just crafting if you wanted and had the resources for it.. as an altaholic this aspect of GW2 is one of my favorites by far.. i can easily level mutliple characters and not see any of the same content if I don't want to.. and if I get bored with anything pretty much everything gives GOOD xp so i just change up what i'm doing.. hell just wandering around get vistas, collecting nodes and world completion nets a lot of xp

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by grimal

    First off, don't tell me how or what I should think.  That annoys me more than anything else.

    Second, it's not the "obvious" because it's your opinion not mine.  I liked the inital change at first but when I look back it offers nothing significantly better than the traditional npc quests.  They both serve the same end-result and after you've done each through, one really isn't any better than the other as far as I'm concerned.

    You're also over praising the innovation in what they did.  It was a sideways shift (maybe slightly forward), but it most certainly was not HUGE.  Methinks perhaps you may still be in that honeymoon phase.

    I don't tell you how to think, but I'm a too old man not to recognize biased thinking when I see it.  When one refuses to accept even a tiny bit of the obvious, it's clear that he's biased and on an agenda.

    Second... let's go for it. Your liking of this game is irrelevant here, your opinion too, we talk about facts. Just like a white horse and a black horse are of a different color... not an opinion, a fact. And GW2 having a significantly different approach to "questing" than your usual "WoW clone" or "Theme Park MMO" is not an opinion, it's an undeniable fact. We don't talk about what is better (which is opinion indeed), we talk about what is different (which is fact, 1 is not equal to 2).

    Last... I've been playing MMORPGs since the early days of UO beta (and text MUDs before too)... I'm not a victim of "honeymoons". I never play MMORPGs I dislike for 6+ months... and GW2 is in its 6th month, still as fun as day one to me. And let me tell you it's quite actually funny that you start by tellling me to not (supposedly) tell you what you should think (which I didn't do), and then you end your post by telling me what I'm (supposedly) thinking. Pot calling the kettle black?

    Aerowyn posted this thread asking for our thoughts and opinions.  I gave mine,  As your reply states, you are not interested in my opinions.  But you seem very keen on pushing your own opinions as fact.  You then admit that you routinely create new accounts over the years.  I suspect this has something to do with your overtly aggressive replies.

    I think you are trying to pick a fight here. 

    I'm here to discuss, not fight.  So going on with you is pointless at this point.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    not only that you could level a character doing just WvW and after a few characters you could level to 80 just crafting if you wanted and had the resources for it.. as an altaholic this aspect of GW2 is one of my favorites by far.. i can easily level mutliple characters and not see any of the same content if I don't want to.. and if I get bored with anything pretty much everything gives GOOD xp so i just change up what i'm doing.. hell just wandering around get vistas, collecting nodes and world completion nets a lot of xp

    Indeed, and GW2 is the only theme park MMORPG giving you so many different VIABLE options to level up and progress. That's why I like in my MMOs - log in and wonder "now, what the hell am I going to do today? Choices, choices...".

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • MagnetiaMagnetia SydneyPosts: 1,029Member Uncommon

    Just didn't feel as cohesive as gw1 stories. Also building a relationship with the enemy was something missed in gw2. We all heard of zhaitan but never really interacted with or saw him until the very end. I didn't despise zhaitan as much as I should have and I didn't feel my actions towards the final goal were heroic enough. Things like the ascension in GW1 while in reality is just 3 annoying missions but because of how it was presented it felt important. You were to try to gain the attention the gods. GW2 You purify a special well you hadn't heard of until the mission before purifying it. 

    GW Proph - met the vizier

    Factions - Interacted with shiro several times

    Nightfall - Warmaster Varesh 

    EOTN - Destroyers were immediately introduced to build foundation of knowledge.

    A lot of this storytelling was done through the badass cutscenes that were in GW1. I'd say almost all GW1 players don't like the GW2 cutscenes in comparison.

    GW2 Fails to achieve this sense of unified goal in favor of the multi/personal story. While I enjoy some aspects of personal story I do wish that there were mandatory dungeons to complete story missions - giving people a reason to party, learn to party before high levels and really get that sense of a small group working toegether to beat stupid odds.

    Of course the problem with this is the lack of a dungeon finder and/or the lack of heroes/henchmen. They were the fallback option if no-one was around but it would be a big problem in GW2 in its current state. Just not able to handle it atm. 

    Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    I kinda likes how GW2 present the story and how it is totally optional so anyone not interested just can skip it. As for instancing I like that there, I dont have to watch all soloplayers playing storystuff and the open world can be focused on multiplaying.

    That said, the story of GW2 have a bit varied quality, some stuff are really fun and some npc are well made. Others are not so great and some stuff is really bad.

    But while I dont like instancing I kinda feel that the open world is kinda wasted on people who just want to run a solostory and GW2 handles this very well. We can of course discuss if a MMO needs a solostory at all but if it should have one then GW2 have it right.

    Forcing people to run solostory like TOR is just not fun at all.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magnetia

    Just didn't feel as cohesive as gw1 stories. Also building a relationship with the enemy was something missed in gw2. We all heard of zhaitan but never really interacted with or saw him until the very end. I didn't despise zhaitan as much as I should have and I didn't feel my actions towards the final goal were heroic enough. Things like the ascension in GW1 while in reality is just 3 annoying missions but because of how it was presented it felt important. You were to try to gain the attention the gods. GW2 You purify a special well you hadn't heard of until the mission before purifying it. 

    GW Proph - met the vizier

    Factions - Interacted with shiro several times

    Nightfall - Warmaster Varesh 

    EOTN - Destroyers were immediately introduced to build foundation of knowledge.

    A lot of this storytelling was done through the badass cutscenes that were in GW1. I'd say almost all GW1 players don't like the GW2 cutscenes in comparison.

    GW2 Fails to achieve this sense of unified goal in favor of the multi/personal story. While I enjoy some aspects of personal story I do wish that there were mandatory dungeons to complete story missions - giving people a reason to party, learn to party before high levels and really get that sense of a small group working toegether to beat stupid odds.

    Of course the problem with this is the lack of a dungeon finder and/or the lack of heroes/henchmen. They were the fallback option if no-one was around but it would be a big problem in GW2 in its current state. Just not able to handle it atm. 

    Yeah, GW1 did indeed have a lot better cutscenes. But frankly do I rather have little focus on that and the devs putting the work into parts of the game where I actually play instead of watching stuff happens. After all did everyone have the same cutscenes in GW1 and that would be loads of work to implement in GW2. I dont want another MMO with a high budget put in cutscenes.

    And yes, a dungeonfinder wouldnt hurt. 

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