In that case, the question is moot. Devs are free to ignore anyone, including paying customers.
And even if it is a good policy to listen, there is no "right", and no involvement involved here. Devs are not obligated to listen.
Do you honestly believe that the original poster was asking a legal question?
No. But i believe he is asking a moot question since no matter what the answer is, there is no enforcement. It is not about legality, it is about practicality.
Do you honestly believe that the original poster was asking a legal question?
No. But i believe he is asking a moot question since no matter what the answer is, there is no enforcement. It is not about legality, it is about practicality.
You say "no", but then everything you write after that means your answer was actually "yes".
Considering free players are also really paying in the cash shop, just not a monthly sub. Then yes I think they should have a right to post in the forums or to contact customer support, unlike what happens with swtor.
Originally posted by loopback1199 I'm going to have to say that freeloaders are not content unless it's for pvp purposes, which in this age of MMO's has a very tiny slice of the popularity it once had due to the xbox generation being a bunch of whiny sissies, so is irrelevant, even assuming whales with sniper rifles could somehow manage a trigger and ultimately find themselves as a lasting proponent in any of the higher populated mainstream titles lol!
What are you smoking?When you hit the LFD "PUG" button, free players are your content.Plus, the most popular online game (more active players than WOW) is a pvp game. PS2 is a pvp game. What is this nosense about pvp is a tiny slice?
Are you saying that "LFG" tools only link up with freeloaders? Can one only PvP against freeloaders? Are there are only a handful of whales in F2P games?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by itgrowls Do you have the right to complain about Air quality? I mean technically you don't pay for the air you breathe so why should anyone listen to you if you got cancer or a weakened immune system from breathing in pollutants all those years! That's your problem you should have rented that gas mask they have at the pollution plant's stores for $15 a month, everyone's doing it!
So... You are going to DIE if you cannot be heard complaining about a game you pay no money to. hmmm... I see a bigger problem here.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Any consumer has the right to speak their opinion of a game. In fact, good developers NEED this in order to know what is working and what isn't. A "Free" player is always a potential "paying" customer and should have their voice heard, for the sake of the game.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Depends on how you think of criticism, like, is it really just complaining? Also, just because someone's a free player, does that mean they'll never ever spend a dime, no matter what? I mean, maybe if some criticisms are addressed, some of them wouldn't be free players, anymore? Sometimes if someone complains, it could be considered advice on how to get money from them. Doesn't mean devs always need to pander to it, but might be foolish to think of it all as just complaining.
Lots of grey area there, but it boils down to yeah, of course a free player's complaints might have some merit - and that's not even getting into the simple issue of whether a free player might just have a plain old good idea worth listening to.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Heres the rub of it really. If you don't then you cut off some cash flow you were relying on. Just because they don't sub to the game doesn't mean they aren't spending cash or wanting to.
If the game was doing well with the sub model then you wouldn't have needed to convert to free to play. If you needed to convert to free to play then you are relying on those free to play players spending cash. If you ignore the complaints of those free to play players then you have effective stopped them from spending any cash. Thus you have cut off your nose to spite your face.
Some complaints are going to be valid, some aren't going to be.
In the end though the more spending money on your game the better off you are. Not listening to the free to play players could leave you in a situation like SWTOR.
Free players have the right to complain or criticize the game.
They are still customers of the game, especially if game ALLOWS them to be free users (F2P games, Freemium games, F2W games, Freeware games, Shareware games, doesn't matter).
Any other idea is totally absurd.
Getting premium level customer support on the other hand, different issue...
Its like telling someone they have no right to complain about the president if they didn't vote. Suppose the said person thought ALL the candidates were clueless, out of touch douches. That said were they supposed to nominate themselves? So yes. I have never bought a Slap Chop for example, but I think they're stupid. I have a right to say they're stupid.
A player is a player and they should not be treated differently by costumer service ot devs. I firmly believe that if you open your doors for free. You should give everyone the same support. Then again easy to say for me as I do not have to pay the CS guys.
No such thing as "free". Your freedom of speech is paid for by those that serve and died in our military that protect you and your freedoms. And in most cases freedom of speech has its limits. Try going into court and telling the judge you can say what you want because you have freedom of speech and see how long it takes before you are in the county jail for contempt.
Its Subscription free option, not really 100% free. You are not contributing anything to the developement, upkeep, and success of said game. If i were to move in with you and start telling you what to do and how to do it in your own home, and i pay no bills or rent............ how long before you boot me out?
Sure people have the right to voice issues with a game, but trying to change it, have less restrictions, and make it easier for them over paid customers....no. To voice concern over bugs, the gameplay, and free content.... yes.
You dont have "rights" in video games, you waivered that once you signed their agreement to play.
Thank you Onomas. I feel the same way.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Heres the rub of it really. If you don't then you cut off some cash flow you were relying on. Just because they don't sub to the game doesn't mean they aren't spending cash or wanting to.
If the game was doing well with the sub model then you wouldn't have needed to convert to free to play. If you needed to convert to free to play then you are relying on those free to play players spending cash. If you ignore the complaints of those free to play players then you have effective stopped them from spending any cash. Thus you have cut off your nose to spite your face.
Some complaints are going to be valid, some aren't going to be.
In the end though the more spending money on your game the better off you are. Not listening to the free to play players could leave you in a situation like SWTOR.
I don't agree, they could be complaining because they have nothing better to do with their lives than to be drama queens. Just look at the threads on many game forums.
Also, what holds the complainer to spending money even if devs change the game to what they want? Nothing holds them. Throwing money away as far as I am concerned and there are far too many cheap freeloaders in this world who are not accountable to anyone. It's a pipe dream.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
They have a right to complain... BUT the provider of free service has the right to tell them to "shut the heck up!".. The provider is under no obligation to listen or respond or to continue to provide the gift service.
I've played games, such as card games over at other people's homes before. Sometimes I don't like those games. I can tell you why. Didn't cost me a dime. Every SINGLE person in existence has probably done this. That means you.
But for some reason video games, if you are playing for free, oh well that's taboo. Don't complain about that. Except for something like Farmville. You can bash that and get thumbs up all around even though that never cost you a dime either. See the problem here?
People complain about Facebook. People complain about Twitter. People complain about Youtube. All free. You never hear, " Yea but your opinion doesn't matter because you're a free user..." .
But don't dream of being critical of a F2P game where a FAN has spent some money on it. Because that incites malice. That's the difference. It's not the free players who are the problem, even if they didn't pay a dime.
Its those that have spent money on the game, that can't stand to hear anything critical being said about it, especially from one of the lowly free players. It's an entitlement thing. No one likes hearing something overly critical about something they love. The only thing worse than that is hearing something overly critical about something you love AND something you've spent money on.
Free players being critical is not the problem. Entitled players who've spent money and can't stand critique from the lowly free players are the problem.
One thing every fanboy will try to do is discredit any negative comments about a game. When F2P games emerged, it gave them a tool in that quest. The dreaded, " It's free for you, so you have no right to complain....". A powerful weapon in the fanboy arsenol. It doesn't apply to much else in existence. Just mmos that happen to be free.
I've played games, such as card games over at other people's homes before. Sometimes I don't like those games. I can tell you why. Didn't cost me a dime. Every SINGLE person in existence has probably done this. That means you.
But for some reason video games, if you are playing for free, oh well that's taboo. Don't complain about that. Except for something like Farmville. You can bash that and get thumbs up all around even though that never cost you a dime either. See the problem here?
People complain about Facebook. People complain about Twitter. People complain about Youtube. All free. You never hear, " Yea but your opinion doesn't matter because you're a free user..." .
But don't dream of being critical of a F2P game where a FAN has spent some money on it. Because that incites malice. That's the difference. It's not the free players who are the problem, even if they didn't pay a dime.
Its those that have spent money on the game, that can't stand to hear anything critical being said about it, especially from one of the lowly free players. It's an entitlement thing. No one likes hearing something overly critical about something they love. The only thing worse than that is hearing something overly critical about something you love AND something you've spent money on.
Free players being critical is not the problem. Entitled players who've spent money and can't stand critique from the lowly free players are the problem.
One thing every fanboy will try to do is discredit any negative comments about a game. When F2P games emerged, it gave them a tool in that quest. The dreaded, " It's free for you, so you have no right to complain....". A powerful weapon in the fanboy arsenol. It doesn't apply to much else in existence. Just mmos that happen to be free.
Excellent post.......SWTOR forum is a perfect example.
Every game that enters the industry no matter how big or small, will forever affect and shape the industry forever. The game's success speaks volumes towards investors as do their failures.
For instance, I was paying out massive amounts of money when playing vindictus, up until episode 10. Ludicrous drop rates, weekly lockout timers, and the removal of the ability to solo some of the new content by introducing player requirement checks. Yeah, a kick in the teeth to any of the old players still hanging onto the game. So I decided that this game was no longer worth my money and told Daniel S. Kim to sod off. All because I don't want to see Linear progression, content lock-outs, and drop rates so low that you're forced to depend on the market place rather than diligently farming the mats yourself.
A different scenario would be SWTOR, I don't want to see stagnation and I loathe their wasteful budget management as well as the thought of funding the profligate EA.
Essentially the reason I complain is to that of why I cannot give money towards a game or what it stands for.
every F2P game I am currently playing I spend my money on. So, that makes me a paying customer. Im sure it isnt a reach for some of you to grasp that I am not the only F2P gamer out there that drops my fair share of $$$ in said cash shops. Sorry to have to point out the painfully obvious but for some people its kinda needed.
FREE PLAYERS SPEND MONEY IN CASH SHOPS. make sense ? good.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that caught on to what you said but:
FREE PLAYERS THAT SPEND MONEY IN CASH SHOPS ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS. No matter how little the amount they pay. make sense? good.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Comments
No. But i believe he is asking a moot question since no matter what the answer is, there is no enforcement. It is not about legality, it is about practicality.
They have the right to complain, just like the company has the right to completely ignore their complaints.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You say "no", but then everything you write after that means your answer was actually "yes".
Considering free players are also really paying in the cash shop, just not a monthly sub. Then yes I think they should have a right to post in the forums or to contact customer support, unlike what happens with swtor.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Anyone has a right to their opinion and voice it.
Developers/companies has the right to not listen block their forums.
OP your question is asinine.
Depends on how you think of criticism, like, is it really just complaining? Also, just because someone's a free player, does that mean they'll never ever spend a dime, no matter what? I mean, maybe if some criticisms are addressed, some of them wouldn't be free players, anymore? Sometimes if someone complains, it could be considered advice on how to get money from them. Doesn't mean devs always need to pander to it, but might be foolish to think of it all as just complaining.
Lots of grey area there, but it boils down to yeah, of course a free player's complaints might have some merit - and that's not even getting into the simple issue of whether a free player might just have a plain old good idea worth listening to.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Heres the rub of it really. If you don't then you cut off some cash flow you were relying on. Just because they don't sub to the game doesn't mean they aren't spending cash or wanting to.
If the game was doing well with the sub model then you wouldn't have needed to convert to free to play. If you needed to convert to free to play then you are relying on those free to play players spending cash. If you ignore the complaints of those free to play players then you have effective stopped them from spending any cash. Thus you have cut off your nose to spite your face.
Some complaints are going to be valid, some aren't going to be.
In the end though the more spending money on your game the better off you are. Not listening to the free to play players could leave you in a situation like SWTOR.
Free players have the right to complain or criticize the game.
They are still customers of the game, especially if game ALLOWS them to be free users (F2P games, Freemium games, F2W games, Freeware games, Shareware games, doesn't matter).
Any other idea is totally absurd.
Getting premium level customer support on the other hand, different issue...
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
A player is a player and they should not be treated differently by costumer service ot devs. I firmly believe that if you open your doors for free. You should give everyone the same support. Then again easy to say for me as I do not have to pay the CS guys.
Thank you Onomas. I feel the same way.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I don't agree, they could be complaining because they have nothing better to do with their lives than to be drama queens. Just look at the threads on many game forums.
Also, what holds the complainer to spending money even if devs change the game to what they want? Nothing holds them. Throwing money away as far as I am concerned and there are far too many cheap freeloaders in this world who are not accountable to anyone. It's a pipe dream.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Joined - July 2004
I've played games, such as card games over at other people's homes before. Sometimes I don't like those games. I can tell you why. Didn't cost me a dime. Every SINGLE person in existence has probably done this. That means you.
But for some reason video games, if you are playing for free, oh well that's taboo. Don't complain about that. Except for something like Farmville. You can bash that and get thumbs up all around even though that never cost you a dime either. See the problem here?
People complain about Facebook. People complain about Twitter. People complain about Youtube. All free. You never hear, " Yea but your opinion doesn't matter because you're a free user..." .
But don't dream of being critical of a F2P game where a FAN has spent some money on it. Because that incites malice. That's the difference. It's not the free players who are the problem, even if they didn't pay a dime.
Its those that have spent money on the game, that can't stand to hear anything critical being said about it, especially from one of the lowly free players. It's an entitlement thing. No one likes hearing something overly critical about something they love. The only thing worse than that is hearing something overly critical about something you love AND something you've spent money on.
Free players being critical is not the problem. Entitled players who've spent money and can't stand critique from the lowly free players are the problem.
One thing every fanboy will try to do is discredit any negative comments about a game. When F2P games emerged, it gave them a tool in that quest. The dreaded, " It's free for you, so you have no right to complain....". A powerful weapon in the fanboy arsenol. It doesn't apply to much else in existence. Just mmos that happen to be free.
Excellent post.......SWTOR forum is a perfect example.
I'll weigh in for a better tomorrow. Yes.
Every game that enters the industry no matter how big or small, will forever affect and shape the industry forever. The game's success speaks volumes towards investors as do their failures.
For instance, I was paying out massive amounts of money when playing vindictus, up until episode 10. Ludicrous drop rates, weekly lockout timers, and the removal of the ability to solo some of the new content by introducing player requirement checks. Yeah, a kick in the teeth to any of the old players still hanging onto the game. So I decided that this game was no longer worth my money and told Daniel S. Kim to sod off. All because I don't want to see Linear progression, content lock-outs, and drop rates so low that you're forced to depend on the market place rather than diligently farming the mats yourself.
A different scenario would be SWTOR, I don't want to see stagnation and I loathe their wasteful budget management as well as the thought of funding the profligate EA.
Essentially the reason I complain is to that of why I cannot give money towards a game or what it stands for.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that caught on to what you said but:
FREE PLAYERS THAT SPEND MONEY IN CASH SHOPS ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS. No matter how little the amount they pay. make sense? good.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I love to complain, do I have a right to?
Maybe not, but heck it is sure fun!!
Life is Short, Read a Book.