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Why TESO won't become the biggest mmorpg around

2

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

     Did you even read what you were replying to? Two people talking and points being made that one is more TES than the other. In order for one to be closer to it than the other, the entire game must be looked at and not just graphics and names...that is the second time in a row you replied without reading. First, stating Dwemer were elves while skipping the word ELVES in my post to highlight DWARVES.

    I have no dog in the race between you and the guy you were replying to. I actually agree with you that SWG was one of the closest experiences you could find in comparison to a TES like game.

    Still doesn't change that it looked like you were implying TES has "elves and dwarves". Which is simply redundant (and seemed to show a lack of TES knowledge). On top of that, your original reply to me had nothing to do with what I said, you were still arguing with that other guy, well that's what it looked like to me.

    Anyway continue complaining about Carebears.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SchroesCatSchroesCat OffenbachPosts: 44Member

    OP wrote:

    [...] Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    OMG, please, by all means. I am so sick and tired of the mainstream "please-don't-hurt-me' and "death-is-meaningless-otherwise-it-might-hurt" attitude in ALL contemporary MMO - I don't call them RPGs.

     

    This might be a reason for me to check out TESO.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Whether Cyrodiil is 1.5 times or 6 times as big as the 1-50 levelling areas - it still means that most of the endgame content will be in a "world PvP" area. Unless you'll have flying mounts or insta-travel "waypoints" that get you to your factions "safe area" or fortress/outpost within Cyrodiil that means that dungeon runners will have to travel through more or less dangerous areas with the chance of getting killed by other players. Be it individuals or roaming zergs or groups that camp certain passages or dungeon entrances to prevent players from opposing factions from entering.

    Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    Is it that bad? I mean it's a game. You wont be hurt IRL.

     

    edit- risk?!? RISK?@!

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Whether Cyrodiil is 1.5 times or 6 times as big as the 1-50 levelling areas - it still means that most of the endgame content will be in a "world PvP" area. Unless you'll have flying mounts or insta-travel "waypoints" that get you to your factions "safe area" or fortress/outpost within Cyrodiil that means that dungeon runners will have to travel through more or less dangerous areas with the chance of getting killed by other players. Be it individuals or roaming zergs or groups that camp certain passages or dungeon entrances to prevent players from opposing factions from entering.

    Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    This by far is one of the most ignorant posts about a game that hasn't even released into beta yet. I will wait my time and actually read information about the game before I make comments about it's survival and impact in the MMO world.

     

     Zenimax and Bethesda will not leave the carebear players high and dry. If anything what they have made statements about the game's content shows that they will have much in the game for non-pvp players and non-hardcore players. In the future maybe refrain from such rash statements until there is more information out and a few betas.

    image

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    I think it could become the biggest MMO if the developers made modifiers, a mix between TES mods and DAoC server types, you can switch between on a persistent character.  If you feel like questing in a world PvP enviroment then you can do so with others who want the same, if you don't care about race/faction and just want to explore then you can do so with others who want the same.  Imagine a 'first person view' only Cyrodiil campaign, or playing with a cold weather mod and the need for food and water.  Why not give everyone what they want?
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by jtcgs

     Did you even read what you were replying to? Two people talking and points being made that one is more TES than the other. In order for one to be closer to it than the other, the entire game must be looked at and not just graphics and names...that is the second time in a row you replied without reading. First, stating Dwemer were elves while skipping the word ELVES in my post to highlight DWARVES.

    Still doesn't change that it looked like you were implying TES has "elves and dwarves". Which is simply redundant

     Unless you have the ability to comprehend what you are reading...I SAID WHAT DOES TES AND DAOC HAVE IN COMMON? ELVES AND DWARVES? <-- note the question mark?

    And that was AFTER apparently stating the things you now say you agree with. Comprehension, the ability to understand..that what you replied to just so happens to go hand in hand with what came before it to FORM A COMPLETE THOUGHT

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • JinaarJinaar Vernon, CTPosts: 46Member

    I'm actually hoping that all entrances to end game dungeons are in contested territory and far from the nearest fast travel node, the inherent danger and reward for getting to the dungeons improves the overall experience imo, since rewards you had to fight hard for are more meaningful and getting them becomes more memorable. It also goes a long way in banding players together and improving realm pride.

    Some of the best times I've had in early UO were all the huge pk fights outside dungeon entrances, it wasn't a question of carebear vs hardcore in the early mmos, those terms didn't exist and no one cared, the game was set up a certain way and you had to learn to deal with it, it's what made them so much fun.

    I really wish devs would stop listening to the players so much and try to please everyone, they should go back to making games according to their plan, and having the players adjust, it leads to some interesting emergent gameplay and querky tactics players employ to defeat some gameplay elements they don't care for too much, and makes games more interesting in general.

    There's way too many players these days that demand that games completely cater to their play style, and scream bloody murder at any sign of inconvenience, it has progressively made games easier, less complex and downright boring, devoid of any kind of meaningful risk or excitement, time for the devs to grow a pair and make games they want to make, even the "carebear" players might be surprised to learn they actually enjoy a bit of a challange instead of the ez mode whack-a-mole, no risk/all instant reward games being mass produced lately.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    My god... why? Because DAoC lived from its players from day 1 and SWG lived under the STAR WARS brand. (yes thats the only reason why SWG had the same numbers of DAoC and no, SWG is not more TES than DAoC. Only a very narrow view would come up with this kind of argument)

     My just look at all the examples in that refute. I am totally blown away by your vast intellect. How could I ever come back from such a thrashing to the ideas in my post.

    SWG:  Open world, no zones, no forced factions, no race limtations per faction, no forced class structures.

    DaoC: Closed world, zones, forced faction, race limitations per faction, forced classes

    TES: Open world, no zones, no forced factions, no race limitations per faction, no forced class structures.

    What does TES and DoaC have in common? Elves and dwarves oh my!

    This is how I see your crap comparison:

    SWG: great lore, great ideas, bad implementation, flawed design - crap game - was shut down.

    DAoC: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design - great game - people still play it.

    TES: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design, great game - people still play it.

    So tell me... again, which have more in common?

    SWG in the begining you couldnt even jump... lol know your facts - what are you, trying to talk through the memories of your older brother? No SWG was NOT GOOD. And btw, lots and lots of entire EMPTY wastelands of planets with tiny pockets of whatever is not really my idea of fun. Half an hour on a speeder bike and you'd see nothing, but wasteland - oh wait, a construction! CIVILIZATION... nope, just generators - and another half an hour of empty wasteland. Then it had a fun year as far as I can remember, then it was the CU then NGE and it completely ruined a game that could have (notice - COULD HAVE) been awesome but instead turned into a pile of crap - not that it was ever good, because it wasnt, but it had everything to be good.

    And btw it had classes - the difference is you could master all of them (which is rather stupid being a doctor-dancer-pistoleer-swordsman-commando-bountyhunter-architect-ranger-smuggler AND jedi). This really doesnt add anything to the game, nothing you can really call good... so ok, you can be EVERYTHING but... so what? lol... when did quantity was the meaning of quality?

    Combat was bad... bad bad bad. I mean... REALLY BAD. It could put you asleep after 10 redbulls and cocaine. The leveling was so dull... so uninspired. I still remember those stupid little creatures outside mos eisley spaceport. I'm sorry... the pve on that game was so bad. And I dont mean <insert random gangnam style mmo> bad, it was... REALLY BAD. Then they came up with jumping. And the jump was WALKING THROUGH THE AIR and then continuing to walk one the ground. Seriously you have no idea what you're talking about.

    I only played SWG because of my RP guild which was awesome and kinda watered down the fantastic steaming pile of crap of a game I was playing. Why mention something that had to be shot like a lame horse because of HOW BAD and how much of a failure it was? I rarely call a game a failure, but SWG was an utter failure. SWG is the standard of failure itself - under failure in the dictionary should come "also known as - SWG".

    SWG only had players because of its brand - nothing more, nothing less - the universe it was on, being star wars, being able to visit mos eisly etc - but the faction system was CRAP. I was an imperial... and kept seeing these fuckin rebels running around and I couldnt shoot them. Why? I DONT KNOW... but I couldnt. It was all friendly and crap... so much for lore... this is what you are proposing. Great. I'll let Zenimax know how qualified you are to take charge of TESO when your ideas are based on the biggest fail in the history of video games (apart from Rambo II for NES).

    I had 2 big disapointments with games SWG (aka failure itself) and WAR - which was just a really really bad game and  considering the awesome lore it has, WAR is the online equivalent of murder.

    Considering the time and the circunstances (no franchise, no licence, no company name etc) under which DAoC was released, it was a massive success and it was a trully awesome game. DAoC released in this "post-WoW era" (equivalent to a post apocalyptic nuclear winter where you spent 8 years inside a cave underground eating deep roots) and with a few tweaks here and there would be a monster mmo. And thats what Zenimax is trying to do. Getting a "modern game", capitalizing specially on Skyrim, which the winning formula of Dark Age of Camelot where no, we're not friends, no we can't go to an enemy's land in times of war, yes you'll have very well defined borders, and yes for the PvE-only crowd they're more than safe cause they dont have to worry a bit about being ganked by some asshole or seeing the enemy happily free roaming through their lands, picking flowers and sending /kiss /wave /hug jumping around them ripping them out of their immersion.

    BTW... that I know of... TES doesnt have dwarves. Only DAoC has dwarves.

    image
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    This is how I see your crap comparison:

    SWG: great lore, great ideas, bad implementation, flawed design - crap game - was shut down.

    DAoC: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design - great game - people still play it.

    TES: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design, great game - people still play it.

    So tell me... again, which have more in common?

    BTW... that I know of... TES doesnt have dwarves. Only DAoC has dwarves.

     yep, if you remove actual gameplay mechanics and core game design and replace them with broad sweeping opinions based on things not related to gameplay...you are correct, DaoC is a lot like TES...then again, so is Super Mario Bros, Zelda, FIFA 2012 and minecraft.

    Oh and that ending...no wonder you are showing you have no clue what TES games are like...the Dwemer are a major part of TES lore.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    This is how I see your crap comparison:

    SWG: great lore, great ideas, bad implementation, flawed design - crap game - was shut down.

    DAoC: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design - great game - people still play it.

    TES: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design, great game - people still play it.

    So tell me... again, which have more in common?

    BTW... that I know of... TES doesnt have dwarves. Only DAoC has dwarves.
     yep, if you remove actual gameplay mechanics and core game design and replace them with broad sweeping opinions based on things not related to gameplay...you are correct, DaoC is a lot like TES...then again, so is Super Mario Bros, Zelda, FIFA 2012 and minecraft. Oh and that ending...no wonder you are showing you have no clue what TES games are like...the Dwemer are a major part of TES lore.

    You seem to be missing the point that others have been making over the last page. You said both games have elves and dwarves. TES does not have dwarves. Dwemer are not dwarves, they are subterranian elves.

    Granted some were saying it quite convolutedly, hopefully that clears it up for you.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    This is how I see your crap comparison:

    SWG: great lore, great ideas, bad implementation, flawed design - crap game - was shut down.

    DAoC: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design - great game - people still play it.

    TES: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design, great game - people still play it.

    So tell me... again, which have more in common?

    BTW... that I know of... TES doesnt have dwarves. Only DAoC has dwarves.
     yep, if you remove actual gameplay mechanics and core game design and replace them with broad sweeping opinions based on things not related to gameplay...you are correct, DaoC is a lot like TES...then again, so is Super Mario Bros, Zelda, FIFA 2012 and minecraft. Oh and that ending...no wonder you are showing you have no clue what TES games are like...the Dwemer are a major part of TES lore.

    Dude... where the hell are dwarves in TES? The dwemer are not dwarves you silly boy, they're elves - actually morrowind describes them as deep-elves or something... but anyway, since I actually dont know what morrowind said I'll give you a clue and present it like a modern day test (you know... those kids take now where the answer is already implicit in the question itself):

    If you have AltMER - high elves, BosMER - woodelves, dunMER - dark elves,... what exactly you think MER means?

    DWARF?

    image
  • FishmittsFishmitts doylestown, PAPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    This is how I see your crap comparison:

    SWG: great lore, great ideas, bad implementation, flawed design - crap game - was shut down.

    DAoC: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design - great game - people still play it.

    TES: great lore, great ideas, great implementation, great design, great game - people still play it.

    So tell me... again, which have more in common?

    BTW... that I know of... TES doesnt have dwarves. Only DAoC has dwarves.
     yep, if you remove actual gameplay mechanics and core game design and replace them with broad sweeping opinions based on things not related to gameplay...you are correct, DaoC is a lot like TES...then again, so is Super Mario Bros, Zelda, FIFA 2012 and minecraft. Oh and that ending...no wonder you are showing you have no clue what TES games are like...the Dwemer are a major part of TES lore.

    Dude... where the hell are dwarves in TES? The dwemer are not dwarves you silly boy, they're elves - actually morrowind describes them as deep-elves or something... but anyway, since I actually dont know what morrowind said I'll give you a clue and present it like a modern day test (you know... those kids take now where the answer is already implicit in the question itself):

    If you have AltMER - high elves, BosMER - woodelves, dunMER - dark elves,... what exactly you think MER means?

    DWARF?

    Their Dwmerfs, a dwarf boffed an elf. Duh. Read it in a book somewhere in Tamriel. Seriously though, who the fuck played Redguard..

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Yes I do hope that TESO will appeal to Darkfall / DAoC fans (actually DAoC players know how to pvp and like to pve as well) and leave all WoW carebears outside of it - yep thats my most sincere hope regarding TESO.

     DaoC was the first game to try to make PvP for Carebears and seeing as how easy it was to roll over the other realms on the server my guild was on...its blatantly obvious. People who had their first taste of PvP in DaoC wouldnt know real PvP if they suddenly found themselves at a rez point before they realized WTF just happened to them. DaoC = zerg PvP that requires little skill from the individual and THAT is why guilds from previous PvP games dominated their servers...individual skilled players, playing as a group in a game made to force grouped PvP...worse yet, CC heavy PvP. DaoC made it all too easy to control everything, get 3-5 skilled PvP vets and watch them stop a large group of carebears that believe they know what PvP is all about while you take your medium sized group and take control of areas that require 50+ mouthbreathers to take. BTW, anyone targetting players of an old game that never topped 400k players at its peak is just asking for a whole lot of fail unless they go with F2P/B2P right from the start.

    When did you start playing DAoC? I don't remember any of this... Then again maybe I am just a mouthbreather...

     

    image

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Whether Cyrodiil is 1.5 times or 6 times as big as the 1-50 levelling areas - it still means that most of the endgame content will be in a "world PvP" area. Unless you'll have flying mounts or insta-travel "waypoints" that get you to your factions "safe area" or fortress/outpost within Cyrodiil that means that dungeon runners will have to travel through more or less dangerous areas with the chance of getting killed by other players. Be it individuals or roaming zergs or groups that camp certain passages or dungeon entrances to prevent players from opposing factions from entering.

    Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    Get your facts straight before you rant, that's all I have to say.

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Yes I do hope that TESO will appeal to Darkfall / DAoC fans (actually DAoC players know how to pvp and like to pve as well) and leave all WoW carebears outside of it - yep thats my most sincere hope regarding TESO.

     DaoC was the first game to try to make PvP for Carebears and seeing as how easy it was to roll over the other realms on the server my guild was on...its blatantly obvious. People who had their first taste of PvP in DaoC wouldnt know real PvP if they suddenly found themselves at a rez point before they realized WTF just happened to them. DaoC = zerg PvP that requires little skill from the individual and THAT is why guilds from previous PvP games dominated their servers...individual skilled players, playing as a group in a game made to force grouped PvP...worse yet, CC heavy PvP. DaoC made it all too easy to control everything, get 3-5 skilled PvP vets and watch them stop a large group of carebears that believe they know what PvP is all about while you take your medium sized group and take control of areas that require 50+ mouthbreathers to take. BTW, anyone targetting players of an old game that never topped 400k players at its peak is just asking for a whole lot of fail unless they go with F2P/B2P right from the start.

    When did you start playing DAoC? I don't remember any of this... Then again maybe I am just a mouthbreather...

     

    image

    Yea well... I didnt even bother to answer to that since his post makes no sense,... he says that DAoC was all about zerg pvp with no individual skill then he says 3 or 5 skilled ppl can kill a zerg and a medium size group (I have no idea whats a medium size group in daoc... must be 4, since a group was 8) can take control of areas that require 50+ people to take... 

    Apples are better than oranges because bananas and shoes. Still I think tires are better than apples. Blame the dwarves in TES.

    image
  • hcoelhohcoelho Rio de JaneiroPosts: 529Member

    it won't become the biggest mmorpg around because, imo, its not a TES game at all. 

     

    You can dress a mmo with the setting you so desire but if you have a strong game series focused on freedom of choice, seamsless open world, deep character progression, insane replayability and AMAZING modding community that pull off better mods than no expansion can top, there is no way you can pull it off using the same mechanics as every other MMO out there.

    If there was a MMO that i was so eager to play  it was the TES mmo, but now they are releasing a generic crap with looks and names pretending to be a TES game. 

     

    I dare you to name 1 freaking game franchise that comes close to TES in the RPG genre. There are better games, but none so epic and so open as TES. 

    So yeah... TESO will be just like LOTRO, they will pack a pickle with chocolate wrappings. But hey you can still enjoy your pickle.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

    I am well versed in TES lore and have played all the games to death.

    There really is no particular problem with calling the Dwemer, 'Dwarves'.

    They are referred to as such in books found in TES games.

    They are referred to as such by TES NPCs.

    They built cities and armour etc. that had all the hallmarks of more traditional fantasy Dwarves with a dash of steampunk thrown in.

    They lived underground and were great miners, smiths and architects - now which fantasy race does that remind me of, hmmm...

    It is a little ridiculous to get hung up on the fact they were a race of Elves that acted JUST LIKE Dwarves for no better reason than putting people down and buffing your 'lore skillz' till they outshine everyone elses (at least from one person's perspective eh!?).

    Now lets let it go and talk about something constructive.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Whether Cyrodiil is 1.5 times or 6 times as big as the 1-50 levelling areas - it still means that most of the endgame content will be in a "world PvP" area. Unless you'll have flying mounts or insta-travel "waypoints" that get you to your factions "safe area" or fortress/outpost within Cyrodiil that means that dungeon runners will have to travel through more or less dangerous areas with the chance of getting killed by other players. Be it individuals or roaming zergs or groups that camp certain passages or dungeon entrances to prevent players from opposing factions from entering.

    Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    Fairly certain all the PvE related stuff will take place within the PvE zones.  Thats not to say certain PvE elements wont take place in Cyrodill because Im sure there will but that sort of content is cast a PvP related content first and formost.  Just like Darkness Falls in DAoC was a PvE dungeon, the criteria to open it depended on PvP systems.

     

    besides if Skyrim can pack 400 POI related quests in such a small zone then nothing says ESO wont do the same in each of the PvE zones.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I am well versed in TES lore and have played all the games to death.

    There really is no particular problem with calling the Dwemer, 'Dwarves'.

    They are referred to as such in books found in TES games.

    They are referred to as such by TES NPCs.

    They built cities and armour etc. that had all the hallmarks of more traditional fantasy Dwarves with a dash of steampunk thrown in.

    They lived underground and were great miners, smiths and architects - now which fantasy race does that remind me of, hmmm...

    It is a litlt ridiculous to get hung up on the fact they were a race of Elves that acted JUST LIKE Dwarves for no better reason than putting people down and buffing your lore skillz till they outshine everyone elses (at least from one person's perspective eh!?).

    Now lets let it go and talk about something constructive.

    Well Elder Scrolls Dwemer or Dwarves were human sized i.e. same size as Dwarves.  The reason why certain elemts of lore talk of them a being is small is becasue they first to encounter them were giants.  But yea another name given to them by the new races of Nirn are Dwarves.

     

    directly from the wiki:

    Biology

    The Dwemer are often referred to as "Dwarves" in western cultures, although they were no shorter than a human and the name seems to have been derived from a supposed encounter with giants who saw the Dwemer as short.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Whether Cyrodiil is 1.5 times or 6 times as big as the 1-50 levelling areas - it still means that most of the endgame content will be in a "world PvP" area. Unless you'll have flying mounts or insta-travel "waypoints" that get you to your factions "safe area" or fortress/outpost within Cyrodiil that means that dungeon runners will have to travel through more or less dangerous areas with the chance of getting killed by other players. Be it individuals or roaming zergs or groups that camp certain passages or dungeon entrances to prevent players from opposing factions from entering.

    Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    Fairly certain all the PvE related stuff will take place within the PvE zones.  Thats not to say certain PvE elements wont take place in Cyrodill because Im sure there will but that sort of content is cast a PvP related content first and formost.  Just like Darkness Falls in DAoC was a PvE dungeon, the criteria to open it depended on PvP systems.

     

    besides if Skyrim can pack 400 POI related quests in such a small zone then nothing says ESO wont do the same in each of the PvE zones.

    Not only Darkness Falls... there was also one in the frontiers that also connected the 3 realms... but I cant remember the name. Just have pictures of it in my head lol... I'm sure someone remembers tho

    image
  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Whether Cyrodiil is 1.5 times or 6 times as big as the 1-50 levelling areas - it still means that most of the endgame content will be in a "world PvP" area. Unless you'll have flying mounts or insta-travel "waypoints" that get you to your factions "safe area" or fortress/outpost within Cyrodiil that means that dungeon runners will have to travel through more or less dangerous areas with the chance of getting killed by other players. Be it individuals or roaming zergs or groups that camp certain passages or dungeon entrances to prevent players from opposing factions from entering.

    Depending on how big the risk is, I think a lot of MMO players won't like that at all. It will cost TESO a lot of "carebearish" players.

    TESO seems to rather cater former hardcore Darkfall/DAoC players than TES players and PvE oriented type of players.

    You just said the magic words for a lot of people here. Not catering to carebears is considered a good thing in my book. I could care less if ESO turns out to be as big as WOW. Is the game fun? That's all that matters to me. So if the trade off for a good game is less carebears, then that's a win in my book. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • FindarielFindariel SomewherePosts: 216Member
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Yes I do hope that TESO will appeal to Darkfall / DAoC fans (actually DAoC players know how to pvp and like to pve as well) and leave all WoW carebears outside of it - yep thats my most sincere hope regarding TESO.

    But... then again, how is that a bad thing?

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Not catering to carebears is considered a good thing in my book. I could care less if ESO turns out to be as big as WOW. Is the game fun? That's all that matters to me. So if the trade off for a good game is less carebears, then that's a win in my book. 

    I never said it´s a bad (or good) thing. It's a matter of taste.

    I'm just stating that a big part of mmorpg players don't like non-consensual PvP. And if Zenimax makes the biggest part of the game an open world PvP area, a lot of players won't want to play it - or quit. Meaning TESO will never be a big game for every kind of mmo player. Hence it won't be the biggest mmorpg around, as the title says. And I'm not saying that's neccessarily a bad thing.

    Of course I have no hard proof yet but if the faction areas are smaller than Cyrodiil and are also meant to level from 1-50, I don't see how players can avoid PvP if they want to explore all the PvE content. I logically expect the majority of the endgame PvE content to be in Cyrodiil.

    Some dev quotes:

    Q: So a lot of people love open world PvP, meaning you can roam around and find someone who is questing and you can ruin their day. I’ve heard that you are going to have quest areas in Cyrodiil so people who enjoy that type of PvP will be able to go and roam around and look for people who maybe aren’t necessarily expecting combat?
    A: Yeah, exactly. Also, there are all the public dungeons; we have a lot of public dungeons in Cyrodiil as well.
    Q: That really neatly segues into my next question about the dungeon experience and PvP. So with the public dungeons in Cyrodiil there will be full PvP in those?
    A: Yes, absolutely.
     
  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Elandir90

    it won't become the biggest mmorpg around because, imo, its not a TES game at all. 

     

    You can dress a mmo with the setting you so desire but if you have a strong game series focused on freedom of choice, seamsless open world, deep character progression, insane replayability and AMAZING modding community that pull off better mods than no expansion can top, there is no way you can pull it off using the same mechanics as every other MMO out there.

    If there was a MMO that i was so eager to play  it was the TES mmo, but now they are releasing a generic crap with looks and names pretending to be a TES game. 

     

    I dare you to name 1 freaking game franchise that comes close to TES in the RPG genre. There are better games, but none so epic and so open as TES. 

    So yeah... TESO will be just like LOTRO, they will pack a pickle with chocolate wrappings. But hey you can still enjoy your pickle.

    Very well said. I couldnt agree more.

     

    One thing that is consistant in a discussion about TESO is that people keep bringing up DAOC.

    DAOC had RvR, Realms, Faction Locked Zones, Classes, etc. Great. So what? I dont care what DAOC has.

    This isnt Camelot. This. Is. TAMRIEL!

    I dont care if there are similarities or if you can tweak and rework the Lore to make it work and fit together.

    This is Elder Scrolls which is a unique and ORIGINAL IP. All on its own.

    To change it in any way shape or form is doing it an injustice.

    Especially as a base to remake/relaunch a 10 year old game that, in its heyday, was popular with only about 250k gamers.

     

    An Elder Scrolls MMO shouldnt "remind me" of things done in DAOC, or WOW or GW2 or any other game.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO should break new ground. Be a true "Next Generation" MMORPG. One that evolves the genre.

    Not just rehashes the same old thing done over the last decade.

     

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by Findariel
    Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

    Yes I do hope that TESO will appeal to Darkfall / DAoC fans (actually DAoC players know how to pvp and like to pve as well) and leave all WoW carebears outside of it - yep thats my most sincere hope regarding TESO.

    But... then again, how is that a bad thing?

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Not catering to carebears is considered a good thing in my book. I could care less if ESO turns out to be as big as WOW. Is the game fun? That's all that matters to me. So if the trade off for a good game is less carebears, then that's a win in my book. 

    I never said it´s a bad (or good) thing. It's a matter of taste.

    I'm just stating that a big part of mmorpg players don't like non-consensual PvP. And if Zenimax makes the biggest part of the game an open world PvP area, a lot of players won't want to play it - or quit. Meaning TESO will never be a big game for every kind of mmo player. Hence it won't be the biggest mmorpg around, as the title says. And I'm not saying that's neccessarily a bad thing.

     

    And I highly doubt that anyone would dispute any of that. If TESO becomes an Open world PVP type game, then it will be a niche game. After the last few years of MMOs that have performed below expectations, I think it's a smart move to identify your base early and cater to it rather than come out of the box as trying to be a game for everyone because that doesn't work. . 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Elandir90

    it won't become the biggest mmorpg around because, imo, its not a TES game at all. 

     

    You can dress a mmo with the setting you so desire but if you have a strong game series focused on freedom of choice, seamsless open world, deep character progression, insane replayability and AMAZING modding community that pull off better mods than no expansion can top, there is no way you can pull it off using the same mechanics as every other MMO out there.

    If there was a MMO that i was so eager to play  it was the TES mmo, but now they are releasing a generic crap with looks and names pretending to be a TES game. 

     

    I dare you to name 1 freaking game franchise that comes close to TES in the RPG genre. There are better games, but none so epic and so open as TES. 

    So yeah... TESO will be just like LOTRO, they will pack a pickle with chocolate wrappings. But hey you can still enjoy your pickle.

    Very well said. I couldnt agree more.

     

    One thing that is consistant in a discussion about TESO is that people keep bringing up DAOC.

    DAOC had RvR, Realms, Faction Locked Zones, Classes, etc. Great. So what? I dont care what DAOC has.

    This isnt Camelot. This. Is. TAMRIEL!

    I dont care if there are similarities or if you can tweak and rework the Lore to make it work and fit together.

    This is Elder Scrolls which is a unique and ORIGINAL IP. All on its own.

    To change it in any way shape or form is doing it an injustice.

    Especially as a base to remake/relaunch a 10 year old game that, in its heyday, was popular with only about 250k gamers.

     

    An Elder Scrolls MMO shouldnt "remind me" of things done in DAOC, or WOW or GW2 or any other game.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO should break new ground. Be a true "Next Generation" MMORPG. One that evolves the genre.

    Not just rehashes the same old thing done over the last decade.

     

    Lets see if you understand some basic concept here

    Does it have "The Elder Scrolls" as part of the name? Yes. Then it is a TES game. I dont really care if you like it or not, if you play it or not, you prolly feel the same about me, but... the fact that you like it or not doesnt really mean that it isnt a TES game just because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of a "TES game". Is WoW a Warcraft game? Yes. Does it seem anything like the other warcrafts? No. Is it still a Warcraft game? Yes.

    As much as it pains me, the Cayenne is a Porsche - it doesnt fit MY IDEA of a Porsche, but it is!

    Again for the ADD crowd: Does it have "Elder Scrolls" as part of the name? Yes? Then it is a "TES" game.

    Thanks

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