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[Column] Neverwinter: The Best and Worst of Neverwinter Beta

245

Comments

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai

    Based on this information, I think I'm going to pass on this one. The animation lock alone is a deterrent. It really eludes me how a system with such a lock could be considered active combat, let alone fun. 

    I also don't the understand their refusal to launch with more classes, let alone call them by their traditional names. It's DnD, the names of the classes are a bit of their culture. 

    You actually have to play the game to give it a fair shake.  Liek I said I was really apprehensive about the combat after I learned it rooting mechanics but for what its worth it feel more natural and intuitive compared to Tera.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,377MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
     

     

    Classes
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Archer_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Controller_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Devoted_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Greatweapon_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Guardian_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Scourge_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Trickster_Selected.Wtex

    Alt Icons
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Cleric_Devotedcleric_Selected.Wt ex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Fighter_Guardian_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Rogue_Trickster_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Wizard_Controlwizard_Selected.Wt ex

    I love you, Azz.  Thanks for this!

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Destai

    Based on this information, I think I'm going to pass on this one. The animation lock alone is a deterrent. It really eludes me how a system with such a lock could be considered active combat, let alone fun. 

    I also don't the understand their refusal to launch with more classes, let alone call them by their traditional names. It's DnD, the names of the classes are a bit of their culture. 

    You actually have to play the game to give it a fair shake.  Liek I said I was really apprehensive about the combat after I learned it rooting mechanics but for what its worth it feel more natural and intuitive compared to Tera.

    Thanks, my apprehension is from TERA. Since it will be free to play I may as well try it, right?

  • IlayaIlaya BochumPosts: 412Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    For what its worth there was some datamined information found in the files during Beta.  Looks like they are working on 2 unannounced classes the Archer Ranger and Scourge Warlock.  Now I do not know if this will be on release but according to Totalbiscuits video they Dev confirmed other classes are actively being worked upon that havn't been announced.  This is further proof there will be additional classes released.
    Classes
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Archer_Selected.Wtex
    Texture_Library/Ui/Charactercreation/Paths/Class_Icon_Player_Scourge_Selected.Wtex

     

    Thats indeed a nice find ! :)

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    well I was not paying 200 bucks to get into beta,  no way.  I am shocked at how many folks did.  I sure hope they get their moneys worth.  Otherwise in a few months were going to see them on the forums talkinb about how they got ripped off. 

     

  • SenadinaSenadina San Diego, CAPosts: 896Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Zefire

    The problem with these guys is that they are trying to support a combat style that has been proven not to work in mmos.

    Really? From my experience with this type of combat it not only proves that it works but proves to me that I would rather not go back to the old way of combat ever again.

    sorry but I disagree and see no proof.

    Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there has been some push-back from the MMO gaming coumminty with the current action combat trend.  I don't think it would be so much of an issue if it weren't for the fact that just about every single new MMO releasing in the next few years is embracing this mechanic with little to no option for those of us who prefer slower and more tactically sound, character driven combat.  What proof we can offer is that there is yet to be a truly successful action oriented MMORPG, but then I suppose you are happy with the mediocrity thus far.  I think many players and even some developers are under the mistaken belief that a change in combat formula is what the genre needs to move forward, when the real problem is the lack of diversity, creativity, quality and quantity of content, especially at the higher end of the level spectrum.  This trend to change virtual worlds into arcade games is a troubling and ultimately destructive path to be taking for MMORPGs.

     You make some good points. If there were some  AAA games launching with action combat and some with tactical, stat driven combat it wouldn't be such an issue. But it does seem that ALL the new MMOs are embracing this action trend and I hardily dislike it.  And it hasn't proven to be any more successful than traditional MMO combat, so the bandwagon jump is puzzling.

    image
  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    well I was not paying 200 bucks to get into beta,  no way.  I am shocked at how many folks did.  I sure hope they get their moneys worth.  Otherwise in a few months were going to see them on the forums talkinb about how they got ripped off. 

     

    I don't know about you but where I am I see a lot of Mercedes on the road... Why should they buy those when they can get a used Hyundai for about $1500...

    Some people just have a lot more disposable income than others.

    I do not get why some people are oblivious to this...

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vonatar

    The very big negative for me was seeing how linear the game is. It is just quest #1 then quest #2, #3, #4 and so on, leading you through areas and mini-dungeons. Maybe this changes after level 30 but I get the feeling this is how it is designed all the way to 60.

     

    It's fun the first time perhaps, but offers zero replayability as it will be exactly the same content in the same order when you play an alt. Which means that all there is to do other than follow the questline is re-run dungeons, or do Foundry content. I don't see how this will hold my attention for more than 1 playthrough and maybe a few weeks afterwards.

     

    It's a shame that this is a growing trend in MMOs these days. Great journey to max level, but then it's pretty much game over unless you want to keep grinding (I'm looking at you GW2).

     You seem to be forgetting the foundry. Did you even play any foundry quests? Basically one never evens needs to do cryptic content if one doesn't want to one can level up entirely on foundry content. I imagine that players will be able to do better with the foundry then cryptic themselves much like the moders in Skyrim. Time will tell but locking yourself into cryptic only content mind frame seems really limiting considering the game, and lets face it no game company has ever kept up enough content to please the locusts.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    well I was not paying 200 bucks to get into beta,  no way.  I am shocked at how many folks did.  I sure hope they get their moneys worth.  Otherwise in a few months were going to see them on the forums talkinb about how they got ripped off. 

     

     

     Only cost $60 you know the average price of almost any B2P game to get into the beta's.

    Always a good thing to be well informed

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai

    Based on this information, I think I'm going to pass on this one. The animation lock alone is a deterrent. It really eludes me how a system with such a lock could be considered active combat, let alone fun. 

    I also don't the understand their refusal to launch with more classes, let alone call them by their traditional names. It's DnD, the names of the classes are a bit of their culture. 

     

     3 things for the record.

    1) D&D releaased with 4, yes only 4 classes. (Thief, mage, fighter, cleric) it has taken them 40 some years to get as many as there are now.

    2) They are not refusing to release new classes, they are refusing to to delay the game another year to add more. they are already working on new class as can be seen by the data mine posts here, but those classes will have to be play tested and not just thrown in on short notice.

    While we all would like more classes (and they are working on them) better to have them tested and bug free when releaased then just thrown in to buffer intial launch reactions. (IMO anyway)  In comparison D3 had 5 classes, TL2 had only 4. Having a bunch of classes where half of them are dull, boring, and useless is well useless. 

    3) The class names come directly from the D&D 4th edition rules which cryptic is useing for Neverwinter so your complaint seems odd. Best take it up with Wizards of the coast for making the names.

  • TanemundTanemund Orange, CTPosts: 102Member Uncommon

    From what I've read in this article and the comments it seems Cryptic is relying on the Foundary to compensate for a single linear leveling quest line.  That smells like a recipe for disaster to me. 

    City of Heroes had a player made content system.  That degenerated into a powerl leveling tool.  Players simply designed instances that were small maps with lots of mobs to "Kill, Crush, Destroy".  Paragon Studios took measure to prevent that and use of the player made content stopped.  Even the story arcs that people had taken the time to plot and plan out and carefully design weren't played.  People weren't interested in the "story".  They just wanted to level up.

    I know Dungeons and Dragons based games have a rich tradition of player involvement and creativity, however that tends to fall by the wayside when people get focused on the "Endgame".  The journey is no longer the "thing" in MMOs.  Now there has to be a goal otherwise why bother playing.  I'm afraid that user generated content will simply be used as an express lane to whatever the "endgame" might be.

    Also the last game Cryptic put out was severly lacking in content as well.  That was STO and the aftershocks of that disaster must still shudder around Cryptic.  I know it's making me take a wait and see on a title I would ordinarily be first in line for.

     

    Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  • SlukjanSlukjan Burlington, VTPosts: 251Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Senadina
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Zefire

    The problem with these guys is that they are trying to support a combat style that has been proven not to work in mmos.

    Really? From my experience with this type of combat it not only proves that it works but proves to me that I would rather not go back to the old way of combat ever again.

    sorry but I disagree and see no proof.

    Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there has been some push-back from the MMO gaming coumminty with the current action combat trend.  I don't think it would be so much of an issue if it weren't for the fact that just about every single new MMO releasing in the next few years is embracing this mechanic with little to no option for those of us who prefer slower and more tactically sound, character driven combat.  What proof we can offer is that there is yet to be a truly successful action oriented MMORPG, but then I suppose you are happy with the mediocrity thus far.  I think many players and even some developers are under the mistaken belief that a change in combat formula is what the genre needs to move forward, when the real problem is the lack of diversity, creativity, quality and quantity of content, especially at the higher end of the level spectrum.  This trend to change virtual worlds into arcade games is a troubling and ultimately destructive path to be taking for MMORPGs.

     You make some good points. If there were some  AAA games launching with action combat and some with tactical, stat driven combat it wouldn't be such an issue. But it does seem that ALL the new MMOs are embracing this action trend and I hardily dislike it.  And it hasn't proven to be any more successful than traditional MMO combat, so the bandwagon jump is puzzling.

     I agree. Action arcade style combat is not good for MMOs.

  • knightauditknightaudit Victoria, BCPosts: 255Member Uncommon

    maybe I am missing something here .... but when I played D&d back in the day ... (WAY BACK) first and second edition rules. I do not recall there being a level cap. They did say that you would "Cap" at 20 but you could go beyond.

    but that is not my point

    In D&D you had fun in whatever adventure you were in .... "Keep on the boarderlands" was a level 1-3, "Sinister secret of Saltmarsh" was a 4-6 and the nightmare of "Tomb of Horrors" was a 17+ dungeon. There was no end game, you simply enjoyed the world and the adventure that was there .. and I hope that Neverwinter brings that to the table. I hope that the foundry is able to bring the adventure to the table and avoid the trap that is the "Endgame"

    I did like the article and look forward to what the game will bring.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by wkyfam
    I tend to agree with you assessment thus far, more or less.  The combat is both really fun, yet the animations locking you into a move and thereby hindering your ability to dodge is frustrating.  Also, the Foundry will be the life or death of this game.  From the content I experienced during beta, this could be really awesome or really terrible.  While there were a couple of good adventures that at least demonstrated the potential of the Foundry, there were more adventures created by users that show just how badly this can be done.  As with many things, the Foundry may balance-out after launch, once more users have access to create their content.  Hopefully this is the case as opposed to the Foundry being congested with many silly, useless adventures containing more typos and grammatical errors than clever design and interesting mobs.

    I have a quick question on the foundry.  Is there a rating system built in?  So I can allow others to be the guinee pigs?:)  Also are there rewards other than xp involved in the player created content?

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tanemund

    From what I've read in this article and the comments it seems Cryptic is relying on the Foundary to compensate for a single linear leveling quest line.  That smells like a recipe for disaster to me. 

    City of Heroes had a player made content system.  That degenerated into a powerl leveling tool.  Players simply designed instances that were small maps with lots of mobs to "Kill, Crush, Destroy".  Paragon Studios took measure to prevent that and use of the player made content stopped.  Even the story arcs that people had taken the time to plot and plan out and carefully design weren't played.  People weren't interested in the "story".  They just wanted to level up.

    I know Dungeons and Dragons based games have a rich tradition of player involvement and creativity, however that tends to fall by the wayside when people get focused on the "Endgame".  The journey is no longer the "thing" in MMOs.  Now there has to be a goal otherwise why bother playing.  I'm afraid that user generated content will simply be used as an express lane to whatever the "endgame" might be.

    Also the last game Cryptic put out was severly lacking in content as well.  That was STO and the aftershocks of that disaster must still shudder around Cryptic.  I know it's making me take a wait and see on a title I would ordinarily be first in line for.

     

    This very well may be a case for many players but 2 things stand out to offset this:

    1. The Devs themselves likened the comparisons of NWO's Foundry to STO's Foundry as being the difference between Windows 3.5 and Windows 7.

    2. There is a rather large community of Modders in games like STO, NWN1&2 who still continue to churn out amazing content.  Sure not every Foundry mission will be amazing but there will be many editors who want to deliver their masterpieces.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    maybe I am missing something here .... but when I played D&d back in the day ... (WAY BACK) first and second edition rules. I do not recall there being a level cap. They did say that you would "Cap" at 20 but you could go beyond.

    but that is not my point

    In D&D you had fun in whatever adventure you were in .... "Keep on the boarderlands" was a level 1-3, "Sinister secret of Saltmarsh" was a 4-6 and the nightmare of "Tomb of Horrors" was a 17+ dungeon. There was no end game, you simply enjoyed the world and the adventure that was there .. and I hope that Neverwinter brings that to the table. I hope that the foundry is able to bring the adventure to the table and avoid the trap that is the "Endgame"

    I did like the article and look forward to what the game will bring.

     

    This in essence is what the Foundry will deliver.  A source of neverending content for players to enjoy.  Sounds very D&D like to me.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
     

    This very well may be a case for many players but 2 things stand out to offset this:

    1. The Devs themselves likened the comparisons of NWO's Foundry to STO's Foundry as being the difference between Windows 3.5 and Windows 7.

    2. There is a rather large community of Modders in games like STO, NWN1&2 who still continue to churn out amazing content.  Sure not every Foundry mission will be amazing but there will be many editors who want to deliver their masterpieces.

    said it a couple times in other threads but in games like NWN, oblivion and skyrim i very much enjoyed player created content and in many cases even more so than dev created stuff.. with good tools and a good overall implementation this could be very huge indeed..

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon

    After watching a few of the major streams for the beta I am closer to a discision about the game personally. It definately in present state DOES NOT deserve to have D&D anywhere in the title or reference to the game. There is more lacking of D&D in this game than anything present, which is more the name than anything else.

     

    I am ok with the combat. There are many times playing previous D&D titles like NWN (1,2) that I had thought it would feel better with a little faster combat. What falls short for me is the lack of depth to character build, the absence of alignment and influence, and the absence of the core to most D&D games which is multi-classing. This is more of a Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance remake into an MMO version than a true D&D experiene.

    image

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    The worst part is that I haven't had a chance to play it yet! I'm enjoying the coverage here.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Xepo

    After watching a few of the major streams for the beta I am closer to a discision about the game personally. It definately in present state DOES NOT deserve to have D&D anywhere in the title or reference to the game. There is more lacking of D&D in this game than anything present, which is more the name than anything else.

     

    I am ok with the combat. There are many times playing previous D&D titles like NWN (1,2) that I had thought it would feel better with a little faster combat. What falls short for me is the lack of depth to character build, the absence of alignment and influence, and the absence of the core to most D&D games which is multi-classing. This is more of a Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance remake into an MMO version than a true D&D experiene.

    when was this game every claimed ot be that? find it odd people get pissed about a game because they are mad it doesn't fit what they feel a game with a famous IP should or shouldn't have.. for me I love D&D but not hung up on the fact it's more geared for a MMO setting and if it's fun ill play.. who cares in it's not a true D&D pnp experience if its a fun well put together game

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    You forgot the best part, you can play for free
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    There will be more classes in the game that's certain and as for the alignment system.. could be something slated for a future expansion/large content patch, it certainly wasn't mentioned in any livestream I saw so we don't know when or if it is gonna be put in.

     

    As far as I am concerned D&D in it's PnP form can never be a MMO, what the devs have done is take the lore and the feel from the 4th ed of the rulebook and made it into an MMO as best they could. This initial retail release could form a solid core for future expansion (beyond Neverwinter, with more classes, multiclassing, prestiege classes, alignment system, etc). People need to be patient and see how things go, tell the devs you want these things but don't go all fire and brimstone if they can't get it done now, just make sure they put it on the to do list is all.

    image
  • TheelyTheely St. Paul, MNPosts: 367Member Uncommon
    They're only releasing 5 classes because the rest are going to cost 20$ to unlock.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Theely
    They're only releasing 5 classes because the rest are going to cost 20$ to unlock.

    id pay $10 to unlock a new class.. why not? game cost me nothing to download and play

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arcona
    You forgot the best part, you can play for free

    Depends on what you mean by play, for me play <> work.  From what I understand the whole astral diamonds currency turns the game into Free2Grind, Pay4Fun. 

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