It is interesting to see the new business models evolving. Games are very fad oriented, and are driven largely by hype. This new way of getting money during the hype phase, instead of waiting for a real release, is probably going to be the wave of the future.
There was another thread where a DICE dev actually said aloud that if your game is not very good, you are better off just hyping the shit out of it and collecting money before letting people to try it out.
Which is exactly what Cryptic and PW are doing with Neverwinter.
It is interesting to see the new business models evolving. Games are very fad oriented, and are driven largely by hype. This new way of getting money during the hype phase, instead of waiting for a real release, is probably going to be the wave of the future.
There was another thread where a DICE dev actually said aloud that if your game is not very good, you are better off just hyping the shit out of it and collecting money before letting people to try it out.
Which is exactly what Cryptic and PW are doing with Neverwinter.
Should we draw some conclusions?
lets see they have 2 other games out F2P that have the exact same currency model this one has, they have freely allowed people for both press and this weekends beta to show what the game is like and they haven't lied to the public about things like instanced single shard worlds.
Exactly how are they hyping it like say Aliens: Colonial Marines or any of the EA titles for anything including SWTOR? cmon we're all waiting, explain how they are "concealing" their game plans from the public to make off with your money in a game title that doesn't require you to buy the founder's pack? (taps foot looks at watch and sighs)
It is interesting to see the new business models evolving. Games are very fad oriented, and are driven largely by hype. This new way of getting money during the hype phase, instead of waiting for a real release, is probably going to be the wave of the future.
There was another thread where a DICE dev actually said aloud that if your game is not very good, you are better off just hyping the shit out of it and collecting money before letting people to try it out.
Which is exactly what Cryptic and PW are doing with Neverwinter.
Should we draw some conclusions?
lets see they have 2 other games out F2P that have the exact same currency model this one has, they have freely allowed people for both press and this weekends beta to show what the game is like and they haven't lied to the public about things like instanced single shard worlds.
Exactly how are they hyping it like say Aliens: Colonial Marines or any of the EA titles for anything including SWTOR? cmon we're all waiting, explain how they are "concealing" their game plans from the public to make off with your money in a game title that doesn't require you to buy the founder's pack? (taps foot looks at watch and sighs)
Agreed they haven't lied about a single element of the game. Ive played through the beta over the last weekend and everything that was shown previously has been what I got to experience and even more. In fact i'm quite impressed with the game that I am upgrading my Founders package from the $60 dollar to $200 to support a very well made game thus far. The game has a lot of potential especially with the foundry. Additonally I agree the packages are all OPTIONAL which for some reason people don't understand and feel the need to call out on things that are OPTIONAL, there are plenty of ways to get into the beta.
I would never buy one of these founders' packs myself.
But if you're that confident that the game will be good, and if you think the benefits offered in the pack are worth the price, then knock yourself out. It's certainly not my place to tell you that you're bad or wrong for what is effectively pre-ordering an F2P game.
If the game's good, I'll end up spending money on it too. You're just spending earlier because you feel a confidence that I could never have any more about the quality of an upcoming game.
Originally posted by Aerowyn i think a worse one is charging a box fee + charging a monthly sub + charging people for special items.. many if not most people who will play neverwinter probably will not spend a dime on this game why does it matter if some of the ones with more disposable income or hardcore fans want to contribute to the game and get some perks as well
It is interesting to see the new business models evolving. Games are very fad oriented, and are driven largely by hype. This new way of getting money during the hype phase, instead of waiting for a real release, is probably going to be the wave of the future.
There was another thread where a DICE dev actually said aloud that if your game is not very good, you are better off just hyping the shit out of it and collecting money before letting people to try it out.
Which is exactly what Cryptic and PW are doing with Neverwinter.
Should we draw some conclusions?
And if people will fall for that, whose fault is it?
Personally i never pay a dime before i see the actual game, read some review, or actually play it if it has a demo or it is F2P.
And it is a free market, devs have the freedom to hype their game, and as long as they are not lying (false advertising), i don't see what is wrong?
Originally posted by HappyFunBall This trend has GOT to stop. Selling weekend, or closed beta access? What? It blows my mind that game pre-orders exist, especially 1 to 1.5 years out, and people buy them. Who would buy a product that doesn't even come out for over a year? Seriously, what's wrong with people?As far as Founder's packs, to me, this is saying, "Hey, our game isn't done yet, but fund our development, and beta test (or alpha test) our game, and we'll even let you PAY for it!"You can't make 50-80k as a SQA analyst, or engineer. But let's pay THEM to "let" us test their game. What?Many games stress test behind the scenes, and even gather all sorts or performance data from you, and you pay them to help test their software. This seems ass-backwards to me, especially as a principal software engineer.I understand some people think they that are making a game they want better by beta testing, but paying for it? Some of these founder packs are $200!!!! For what, virtual items, and only weekend play time like Neverwinter? I'm the Firefall beta, and it's not even a beta. There's a ton of game content that isn't in the game yet. Sorry, but by definition, that makes in an alpha.Are people really THIS desperate to play a game?The worst thing to me is not even playing the game once, and then shelling out $200 on a founders pack. Without even knowing if you like the game or not? Again, what??Also, I'm not trolling. Just posting an opinion. I really think this is a terrible trend.
They are companies first and foremost. I cannot blame them making money grabs.
Put a lead bell on a sheep and the flock follows willingly to the slaughterhouse. An old proverb states, "A fool and his money are soon parted."
What was once a service provided by players to companies to test their games has now become a job that players willingly pay for. More power to the companies for turning this around.
I have a fence that needs whitewashing. It'll cost you to take my place, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Founder's Packs allow people to get rewards at a discounted price. If you buy earlier you get more than if you buy when the game releases. A lot of stuff has this pre-order mentality not just MMOs.
The fact is, MMO players are extremely desperate right now and game companies (both big and small) know this.
While I'm not a fan of "founders packs" or the whole Kickstarter thing, there are clearly many people lining up to throw their money at these companies so I don't really blame them for taking advantage of this.
Look at Camelot Unchained, Marc Jacobs throws out some concepts in a blog and all of a sudden it's one of the most hyped games out there without anyone even seeing an actual in-game screenshot or video, if that doesn't wreak of desperation then I don't know what does.
Can we clear that founder packs are not part of a free market. They are part of a monopoly controlled by the company that sells them. They even declare a saving over the cash shop equivelent which is pure BS, they set the prices. The idea that this is free market economics at work is just incorrect.
It has been stated in this thread, last time I checked it was my money. If I want to pay a comapny for access, swag, an xp boost, a beanie, I'll do it. It's like pre-ordering a collectors edition. Now that I have said my piece about that, the truth in my eyes is that this helps companies with revisions. See if you know anything about programming or business there is this thing called the triple constraint and a part of that is testing. All these games whether they say so or not have a release date long before they ever say anything about it. Once that date gets closer they can either pay for testers, which they do, or they can get people to test it for them. These founders packs also give the company commited customers, and for a few lines of code added to thier account they save time, money, and are able to either pocket the money or push it into funding for things in their next project. That's my understanding anyway. I myself was looking at Firefall, I wouldn't mind dropping a $100 on a game, your gonna pay $60 for a game you want anyway, what's another $40 for some swag with it? That's just me, you guys do what you want with your money, not that I'm telling you.
Originally posted by MightyChasm Can we clear that founder packs are not part of a free market. They are part of a monopoly controlled by the company that sells them. They even declare a saving over the cash shop equivelent which is pure BS, they set the prices. The idea that this is free market economics at work is just incorrect.
Couldn't any product sold by any company be your so called "monopoly controlled by the company that sells them". Last I checked Founder's Pack are priced compared to what other Founder's Packs are going for. If not, why aren't there $25,000 Founder's Packs out there? Cause in our free market, no one would buy them.
This trend has GOT to stop. Selling weekend, or closed beta access? What? It blows my mind that game pre-orders exist, especially 1 to 1.5 years out, and people buy them. Who would buy a product that doesn't even come out for over a year? Seriously, what's wrong with people?
As far as Founder's packs, to me, this is saying, "Hey, our game isn't done yet, but fund our development, and beta test (or alpha test) our game, and we'll even let you PAY for it!"
You can't make 50-80k as a SQA analyst, or engineer. But let's pay THEM to "let" us test their game. What?
Many games stress test behind the scenes, and even gather all sorts or performance data from you, and you pay them to help test their software. This seems ass-backwards to me, especially as a principal software engineer.
I understand some people think they that are making a game they want better by beta testing, but paying for it? Some of these founder packs are $200!!!! For what, virtual items, and only weekend play time like Neverwinter? I'm the Firefall beta, and it's not even a beta. There's a ton of game content that isn't in the game yet. Sorry, but by definition, that makes in an alpha.
Are people really THIS desperate to play a game?
The worst thing to me is not even playing the game once, and then shelling out $200 on a founders pack. Without even knowing if you like the game or not? Again, what??
Also, I'm not trolling. Just posting an opinion. I really think this is a terrible trend.
Comments
You can spend all you like. Just don't come raging here if/when the game sucks and you feel like you've been ripped off.
It's like asking someone to punch you into the face and then being genuinely angry that someone actually did.
There was another thread where a DICE dev actually said aloud that if your game is not very good, you are better off just hyping the shit out of it and collecting money before letting people to try it out.
Which is exactly what Cryptic and PW are doing with Neverwinter.
Should we draw some conclusions?
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Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
lets see they have 2 other games out F2P that have the exact same currency model this one has, they have freely allowed people for both press and this weekends beta to show what the game is like and they haven't lied to the public about things like instanced single shard worlds.
Exactly how are they hyping it like say Aliens: Colonial Marines or any of the EA titles for anything including SWTOR? cmon we're all waiting, explain how they are "concealing" their game plans from the public to make off with your money in a game title that doesn't require you to buy the founder's pack? (taps foot looks at watch and sighs)
This would like to have a word with you btw.
Agreed they haven't lied about a single element of the game. Ive played through the beta over the last weekend and everything that was shown previously has been what I got to experience and even more. In fact i'm quite impressed with the game that I am upgrading my Founders package from the $60 dollar to $200 to support a very well made game thus far. The game has a lot of potential especially with the foundry. Additonally I agree the packages are all OPTIONAL which for some reason people don't understand and feel the need to call out on things that are OPTIONAL, there are plenty of ways to get into the beta.
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I would never buy one of these founders' packs myself.
But if you're that confident that the game will be good, and if you think the benefits offered in the pack are worth the price, then knock yourself out. It's certainly not my place to tell you that you're bad or wrong for what is effectively pre-ordering an F2P game.
If the game's good, I'll end up spending money on it too. You're just spending earlier because you feel a confidence that I could never have any more about the quality of an upcoming game.
I agree.
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And if people will fall for that, whose fault is it?
Personally i never pay a dime before i see the actual game, read some review, or actually play it if it has a demo or it is F2P.
And it is a free market, devs have the freedom to hype their game, and as long as they are not lying (false advertising), i don't see what is wrong?
Put a lead bell on a sheep and the flock follows willingly to the slaughterhouse. An old proverb states, "A fool and his money are soon parted."
What was once a service provided by players to companies to test their games has now become a job that players willingly pay for. More power to the companies for turning this around.
I have a fence that needs whitewashing. It'll cost you to take my place, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
The fact is, MMO players are extremely desperate right now and game companies (both big and small) know this.
While I'm not a fan of "founders packs" or the whole Kickstarter thing, there are clearly many people lining up to throw their money at these companies so I don't really blame them for taking advantage of this.
Look at Camelot Unchained, Marc Jacobs throws out some concepts in a blog and all of a sudden it's one of the most hyped games out there without anyone even seeing an actual in-game screenshot or video, if that doesn't wreak of desperation then I don't know what does.
It has been stated in this thread, last time I checked it was my money. If I want to pay a comapny for access, swag, an xp boost, a beanie, I'll do it. It's like pre-ordering a collectors edition. Now that I have said my piece about that, the truth in my eyes is that this helps companies with revisions. See if you know anything about programming or business there is this thing called the triple constraint and a part of that is testing. All these games whether they say so or not have a release date long before they ever say anything about it. Once that date gets closer they can either pay for testers, which they do, or they can get people to test it for them. These founders packs also give the company commited customers, and for a few lines of code added to thier account they save time, money, and are able to either pocket the money or push it into funding for things in their next project. That's my understanding anyway. I myself was looking at Firefall, I wouldn't mind dropping a $100 on a game, your gonna pay $60 for a game you want anyway, what's another $40 for some swag with it? That's just me, you guys do what you want with your money, not that I'm telling you.
Couldn't any product sold by any company be your so called "monopoly controlled by the company that sells them". Last I checked Founder's Pack are priced compared to what other Founder's Packs are going for. If not, why aren't there $25,000 Founder's Packs out there? Cause in our free market, no one would buy them.
Thanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Value is subjective..../thread