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What will the combat be like?

I was very excited when I heard about this game and saw some of the photos. What the new developer is doing all sounded great like it's going to be an amazing game but after watching, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjDnM0uf0O8  I'm unsure about how I feel. The combat looks really slow and boring IMO. I know it's only alpha testing but do you think they are going to keep it like this?

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Comments

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I've seen combat on Youtube, it looks really dull.  I wouldn't be able to say for sure unless I played it though.  I don't see how standing around like that is very fun, that's all.
  • JimmydeanJimmydean Ypsilanti, MIPosts: 1,270Member

    It's a game that worries more about combat positioning, timing, and combining group members abilities to have an increased effects.

    Sure, you could stand in one place the whole time, and be terrible. Most abilities work better / combo in a certain position or condition. 

    There are tanks, healers, support, and DPS classes. If you prefer running around in circles spamming attacks, you won't find that in FFXIV. FF games have always been more about tactical combat than spammy combat.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,594Member Uncommon
    That looks like pretty standard Final Fantasy combat.  Its more about knowing what sequence and combination to use your abilities and spells in, for a given situation, than bouncing around like a mad superball.
  • aionixaionix Fremont, OHPosts: 292Member
    ^ What the two posters above me said.  MMO's are diverse in gameplay nowadays, and FF has always been tactical, not fast paced like so many of the recent MMO's.  It won't be for everyone, and they will NOT cater to the masses.  Thats pretty much it, hopefully you can live with that OP, but if not there should be plenty of other choices.
  • VanadromArdaVanadromArda Hot Springs Village, ARPosts: 445Member

    Do not be too alarmed by the combat videos. Many Alpha testers were rather upset with the people who filmed the video as it purposely AVOIDS showing what the combat is like in the game.I can assure the combat is MUCH better than the videos they released. I just wish I could release my own videos, sadly I'm still under NDA.

    Timing, position, and movement are critical to the more difficult fights. All of the videos feature the players just statically standing in one spot, which is nothing like the combat in the game at all. Trust me, you have to keep moving and it's important to do so. The only time a player is rooted is if they are a mage-type casting a spell, otherwise they should be actively moving around.

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,251Member Uncommon
    Its your basic tab target but it has positional combos and group skills called limit breaks. If you are looking for action play this is probably the wrong game for you.
  • NyrrhoNyrrho Sacramento, CAPosts: 53Member
    It's a JRPG, so it is more akin to what you would consider tab-targeting style of play. You won't be rolling around and dodging like you would in GW2 or similar games. Plus, FFXIV (at least 1.0) is/was more focused on party play, and player positioning and attack timing play a more critical role than being able to dodge attacks.
  • maxg314maxg314 Brandon, FLPosts: 13Member
    Yeah i got what everyone is saying. Maybe after seeing different people playing that aren't just standing in one spot I'll find it more fun. Thanks for the help!
  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    I have 3 videos from V1 HNMs on the forum a few posts down called for your viewing pleasure . It shows battle regiments witch is party weapon and spell stacking . If you song like the music in the video turn off the volume

    http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link

  • FallguyArmyFallguyArmy Davenport, FLPosts: 80Member
    Originally posted by TemperHoof

    Do not be too alarmed by the combat videos. Many Alpha testers were rather upset with the people who filmed the video as it purposely AVOIDS showing what the combat is like in the game.I can assure the combat is MUCH better than the videos they released. I just wish I could release my own videos, sadly I'm still under NDA.

    Timing, position, and movement are critical to the more difficult fights. All of the videos feature the players just statically standing in one spot, which is nothing like the combat in the game at all. Trust me, you have to keep moving and it's important to do so. The only time a player is rooted is if they are a mage-type casting a spell, otherwise they should be actively moving around.

    You seem pretty sure of yourself so I'll hold you to this. I'm on the same boat with a few people here concerned about the dull combat system that was shown in the videos. I hope I get into beta so I can experience for myself exactly how it's like. But if it is tab-targeting (or just targeting in general) then I fear it's not going to be that much better for me personally, especially if it's like WoW or SWTOR where you can still move around, but in the grand scheme of things it's pointless since you're still targeted anyway (lol...)

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maxg314

    I was very excited when I heard about this game and saw some of the photos. What the new developer is doing all sounded great like it's going to be an amazing game but after watching, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjDnM0uf0O8  I'm unsure about how I feel. The combat looks really slow and boring IMO. I know it's only alpha testing but do you think they are going to keep it like this?

     

    Action shooter MMO this 'aint.

    If that's what you are looking for TERA is just one click away...

    Me though? Loving the look of it- feels like nicely updated old school, which suits me.

  • VanadromArdaVanadromArda Hot Springs Village, ARPosts: 445Member
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy

    You seem pretty sure of yourself so I'll hold you to this. I'm on the same boat with a few people here concerned about the dull combat system that was shown in the videos. I hope I get into beta so I can experience for myself exactly how it's like. But if it is tab-targeting (or just targeting in general) then I fear it's not going to be that much better for me personally, especially if it's like WoW or SWTOR where you can still move around, but in the grand scheme of things it's pointless since you're still targeted anyway (lol...)

    Look I can't give details. But let me try to sum this up without breaking NDA. There was a boss in Alpha, if you just stood still and bashed on him you'd lose the fight because he would repeatedly go invulnerable if you didn't do something specific.

     

  • umcorianumcorian Boston, MAPosts: 466Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    That looks like pretty standard Final Fantasy combat.  Its more about knowing what sequence and combination to use your abilities and spells in, for a given situation, than bouncing around like a mad superball.

     

    What strikes me so strange is I thought Square-Enix had one of the best RPG combat systems in Kingdom Hearts I/II and the Dissidia titles. You can argue it was a little spammy at times, but bosses that required you to parry, dodge, find openings and even bombard with spells real time, merging both reflex and tactics... it made for a great system that was almost as exciting to watch as it was to play.

    The first draft of this game had a combat system that was just completely panned for being so slow-paced and unexciting. Why did they opt for slightly faster pace but just as unexciting? 

    You can argue Final Fantasy has always been somewhat turn-based slower pace, but then again, you also commanded between 3-5 people at the same time, depending on the title. Imagine how dull it would have been if you only controlled one character? Click fight, click target...then spend 15 seconds watching your "initiative" bar fill up.

    Why Square thinks that that's good MMO gameplay for players to stare at the screen for 75% of the time and not do anything is beyond my understanding. 

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    I would actually love to see an awesome tactical turn-based combat system in an MMO, but that's another subject.  I was heavily critical of FFXI's combat.  I found almost no redeeming quality in it when I played from vanilla through COP.  Skillchains and magic bursts created the necessary group coordination, but it just became the same sequence for hours.  Rinse and repeat.  Fill the gaps with auto attacks.  

    I don't know enough about the new FFXIV's combat system to make an assessment, but I can safely say that if it's anything like XI's, there's no way I'd be able to get into the game.  

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by drivendawn
    Its your basic tab target but it has positional combos and group skills called limit breaks. If you are looking for action play this is probably the wrong game for you.

    Pretty much sums it up.

    If you want traditional combat like Everquest 2 or World of Warcraft, the game will appeal to you, if you are looking for action combat along the lines of TERA, Neverwinter or GW2, then you will be disappointed.

    It has a few tweaks to the traditional system, but don't expect anything radically different. This reboot is set to make a safe FF MMO, I wouldn't expect anything overly innovative.  

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by TemperHoof
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy

    You seem pretty sure of yourself so I'll hold you to this. I'm on the same boat with a few people here concerned about the dull combat system that was shown in the videos. I hope I get into beta so I can experience for myself exactly how it's like. But if it is tab-targeting (or just targeting in general) then I fear it's not going to be that much better for me personally, especially if it's like WoW or SWTOR where you can still move around, but in the grand scheme of things it's pointless since you're still targeted anyway (lol...)

    Look I can't give details. But let me try to sum this up without breaking NDA. There was a boss in Alpha, if you just stood still and bashed on him you'd lose the fight because he would repeatedly go invulnerable if you didn't do something specific.

     

     

    That's more scripting like EQ2 or WoW, not really action based.

  • VanadromArdaVanadromArda Hot Springs Village, ARPosts: 445Member
    Originally posted by evilastro

    That's more scripting like EQ2 or WoW, not really action based.

    That's because I can't give details! You can easily assume it's something entirely different than what it is.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by TemperHoof
    Originally posted by evilastro

    That's more scripting like EQ2 or WoW, not really action based.

    That's because I can't give details! You can easily assume it's something entirely different than what it is.

    No he is actually right, the type of combat he is refering to "action combat" is when you don't have any targeting so you are limited to area attacks (short range frontals form the normal "attack").  It could also mean other "features" like a lack of an aggro system etc.

     

    In these games combat consists of aiming your attacks at the mob, and dodging the attacks.  So they are more action packed I guess somehow.

     

    In traditional MMO's of course you also aim your attacks from certain directions or distances (you are also required to move to avoid many attacks), generally have more abilities (with actual variety), and mobs react differently to different scenarios according to their scripting.  This has not really changed since FFXI/EQ though the tools the developers can use have improved and they can create more complex encounters like in FFXIV.  So it is still traditional MMO combat, it isn't like Skyrim or the new Fallout games.  I think that is the kind of MMO he would like to see.  You know games that are known for their awesomely challenging and deep combat /eyeroll

     

    FFXIV is "action packed" in that there is a ton to do in challenging content, but I don't think it is the kind of "revolutionary combat" he is looking for.  To each their own, no MMO can be everything to everyone.

     

    Honestly I don't get the whole "action combat revolution" it seems to use things that traditional MMO combat already had while just simplifying everything else and taking a lot away from the challenge of encounters by limiting what all combat entails.  I'll take traditional MMO combat and an encounter designer on the caliber of Matsui any day over some MMO version of Mount and Blade. 

  • VanadromArdaVanadromArda Hot Springs Village, ARPosts: 445Member

    Nothing Revolutionary about FFXIV's combat. It's fun, it's functional, and it's a mixture of a lot of things which give it a classic Final Fantasy feel brought to the modern MMO.

    Don't look for something "new" with FFXIV. A Realm Reborn is just a fun game, and that's what is important. They aim to please with what works, and they do just fine. Sure a heck of a lot more fun for me than Guild Wars 2, but that's just me.

  • ToxiaToxia Lake Charles, LAPosts: 1,319Member Uncommon

    I'll be playing gw2 for my action, and FFXIV(if it turns out to be much better than its previous version) for my classic mmo/final fantasy fix.

     

    Isn't variety great.

    The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  • AllizarAllizar Houston, TXPosts: 54Member

    MMO's have basically split into 2 genre's (good thing IMO)

     

    A) Players who want the constant high of fast paced combat, furiously whacking their keyboard and mouse in the attempt to see which one fails first. Little / no social dependancy and tradeskills that involve quickly smashing a few easily obtained items together.  Quick and cheap rewards / gratification but no real way to prevent players from eating through the game content (and no social aspect to keep them there) so there is usually a heavy and simplistic end game grind where you repeat the same thing over and over until you quit.

     

    B) Cognitive/tactical MMO's that are more about thinking / choice / interaction than reflex. Involved tradeskills and encounters, slower pased, more social dependancies / oppurtunities and thought out actions complete with consequences. Players have a better chance of being drawn into the game long term (I know people that have played MUD's like this for over 20 years, they will probably never quit) and there is more focus on the journey instead of the end reward.

     

    FFXIV: ARR seems to be more in the B catagory, which is exactly what I'm looking for

  • DecadentiaDecadentia Saint John, NBPosts: 464Member
    Providing there is a follow and assist function, it looks like a great combat system for multiboxers. It's too bad it's subscription based. Pricey.
  • emikochanemikochan StaffordPosts: 284Member Uncommon

    Since I'm currently playing gw2 this does interest me, the community is really nice in my experience (visiting a friend and watching while she played :p)

    Probably because it's a forced grouping game, so you have to be nice or be exiled.

    image

  • dwarflordkingdwarflordking long beach, CAPosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by maxg314

    I was very excited when I heard about this game and saw some of the photos. What the new developer is doing all sounded great like it's going to be an amazing game but after watching, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjDnM0uf0O8  I'm unsure about how I feel. The combat looks really slow and boring IMO. I know it's only alpha testing but do you think they are going to keep it like this?

     

    Action shooter MMO this 'aint.

    If that's what you are looking for TERA is just one click away...

    Me though? Loving the look of it- feels like nicely updated old school, which suits me.

    why do people always assume someone wants a freakin shooter just cause they want action?

    nobody is asking for a shooter, they want tera like/ or console like action games like dmc or god of war or even zelda.. just because we want action doesn't mean shooter get it?

  • dwarflordkingdwarflordking long beach, CAPosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by Allizar

    MMO's have basically split into 2 genre's (good thing IMO)

     

    A) Players who want the constant high of fast paced combat, furiously whacking their keyboard and mouse in the attempt to see which one fails first. Little / no social dependancy and tradeskills that involve quickly smashing a few easily obtained items together.  Quick and cheap rewards / gratification but no real way to prevent players from eating through the game content (and no social aspect to keep them there) so there is usually a heavy and simplistic end game grind where you repeat the same thing over and over until you quit.

     

    B) Cognitive/tactical MMO's that are more about thinking / choice / interaction than reflex. Involved tradeskills and encounters, slower pased, more social dependancies / oppurtunities and thought out actions complete with consequences. Players have a better chance of being drawn into the game long term (I know people that have played MUD's like this for over 20 years, they will probably never quit) and there is more focus on the journey instead of the end reward.

     

    FFXIV: ARR seems to be more in the B catagory, which is exactly what I'm looking for

    seem like your just talkin crap about A

    in B, you mean boring auto everything, auto aim , auto block, strictly gear dependent, stand there and press hot keys claiming its skills

     

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