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Death Penalty- rewarding not dieing

mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,441Member Uncommon

I was thinking about this and came up with this idea. The idea is that death should have it's sting, allow for someone rescuing you mean something, and have benefits if you are good at surviving. It's probably not completely original nor without it's flaws but I wondered what everyone's thoughts are on it. Be aware that the numbers are only examples and would be subject to change for balance.

 

Death has a loss of spirit points 25-100 per death. Players reviving you greatly mitigates the cost.
Spirit points are gained by up to 100 per day for hitting daily tasks. These are things that you would normally do but they change every day.

Spirit Perks- account wide passive bonuses that are bought with spirit points

Each Character has their own Spirit Point pool.
The perk is a % effective based on the % full your spirit is
Only 1 Perk can be active on your account at a time. Switching perks take a day to process. Opt to switch a perk and as long as you don't cancel it before 24 hours it will be changed to the new perk. First perk is active on purchase

 

Examples:

356/1000 Spirit Points

[Hardy] + 9% Character Defense for current character



-250sp Perk: Death Penalty costs half as much (@ any percent)

-250sp Perk: (Hardy) Character defense + 25% (@100%)

-500sp Perk: Alt leveling speed + 10% (@100%)

-500sp Perk: ( Equalize) Character defense +10% (@ 0%), Character attack +10% (@ 100%) , +5%/+5% at 500

-750sp Perk: All Character stats +15% (@100%) drains 10sp per day

 

Does it suck in some way? Do you rather have death be a 10sec interruption from you getting back in to killing stuff? Would you only like this IF it was in a certain type of game?

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Comments

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Death penalty - as in a punishment for dying, loss of spirit points, to me is redundant and doesn't encourage me to play better.  I allready play better, failing what I am doing and having to redo it is enough of a penalty. 

    That being said I don't advocate for anything that produces another grind, ie. doing a daily task to get spirit points.

    I would be up for increasing your stats of achieving bonus stats of some kind for successfully completing so many encounters in such and such period of time without dieing.  As in you've been playing for 2 hours, have not died and done more than sit on your butt - here is a stat bonus. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Does it suck in some way? Do you rather have death be a 10sec interruption from you getting back in to killing stuff? Would you only like this IF it was in a certain type of game?

    10 sec? That is too long. 3 sec will be better.

    "Sting" is different for everyone. There are those who even complains about the gold repair bill of dying in D3 (which is quite slight).

    I say .. give people choices. Have a optional perma-death mode. You can't be more severe than that. I don't think you want to make death penalty too complicated.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,476Member Uncommon
    How about a not dying buff that you lose when you die? lolo
  • ThedrizzleThedrizzle Palm Coast, FLPosts: 322Member
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old

    There is a reason why we don't have that anymore. Not many people want to replay part of the game just because they die.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old

    There is a reason why we don't have that anymore. Not many people want to replay part of the game just because they die.

    Yeah, some things didn't disappear because devs across the globe universally forgot about them. They disappeared because players didn't like them.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • supertouchmesupertouchme corpus christi, TXPosts: 68Member

    people condemn death penalties these days but they don't understand the value of such mechanisms. death penalties contribute to an mmo's pacing and they make mmos more effective fantasy worlds overall. some people just can't appreciate the "lows" and need frequent highs which aren't really highs without the lows. it's a real shame.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,441Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Does it suck in some way? Do you rather have death be a 10sec interruption from you getting back in to killing stuff? Would you only like this IF it was in a certain type of game?

    10 sec? That is too long. 3 sec will be better.

    "Sting" is different for everyone. There are those who even complains about the gold repair bill of dying in D3 (which is quite slight).

    I say .. give people choices. Have a optional perma-death mode. You can't be more severe than that. I don't think you want to make death penalty too complicated.

    Whoa, I don't want perma-death. But if you can have your 3 sec instant rez and I can have my spirit-death-system I would be happy. But why haven't we seen anything like this before? Can we not have different modes functioning together?

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old

    There is a reason why we don't have that anymore. Not many people want to replay part of the game just because they die.

    Dark Souls wants to have a word with you...

     

    There's a reason virtually every single easy mode dumbed down WoW clone of the last 9 years has been a huge flop. 

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by supertouchme

    people condemn death penalties these days but they don't understand the value of such mechanisms. death penalties contribute to an mmo's pacing and they make mmos more effective fantasy worlds overall. some people just can't appreciate the "lows" and need frequent highs which aren't really highs without the lows. it's a real shame.

    Why does everyone believe that someone of a different opinion doesn't understand.

    I do understand, I don't agree with the asserted value.

    In General (not specific to dp) I do feel that most people do understand anothers pov or the reasons they give, however they do not agree.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by supertouchme

    people condemn death penalties these days but they don't understand the value of such mechanisms. death penalties contribute to an mmo's pacing and they make mmos more effective fantasy worlds overall. some people just can't appreciate the "lows" and need frequent highs which aren't really highs without the lows. it's a real shame.

    "don't understand"? More like "don't like".

    Not everyone looks for a more "effective fantasy world". Why do i have to appreciate what you appreciate? It is just entertainment. I will play what is fun to me.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Failure should be something that you try to avoid, not something that you drag around behind you.

     

     

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Failure should be something that you try to avoid, not something that you drag around behind you.

     

     

    I like that.  Mind if I quote you?

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,441Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Failure should be something that you try to avoid, not something that you drag around behind you.

     

     

    Sometimes failure is unavoidable and a process of learning how to play isn't it?

    /corpse dragging was a viable way to retrieve tombstones in Vanguard :)

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Failure should be something that you try to avoid, not something that you drag around behind you.

     

     

    Sometimes failure is unavoidable and a process of learning how to play isn't it?

    /corpse dragging was a viable way to retrieve tombstones in Vanguard :)

    Hmm as a tool for leaning yes.  Unavoidable I disagree.  There is very little that is unavoidable.  If it was we normally don't do it in the frist place.

    Note unavoidable is not the same as unlikely.  Again there is very little that is unavoidable.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I like that.  Mind if I quote you?

    I'd be flattered :)

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Sometimes failure is unavoidable and a process of learning how to play isn't it?

    True, but I am very risk averse already.  When I look at how I play today, most of my MMO deaths come from impatience rather than ignorance - I'll have already planned out my task and calculated my comfort zone, but just lose concentration while going through the motions or while staying up too late.  I'm not going to learn anything new from that death - it's just going to shrink my comfort zone and scale back what I attempt to do rather than try harder to achieve the same task.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old

    There is a reason why we don't have that anymore. Not many people want to replay part of the game just because they die.

     True, but games like the roguelikes had a certain type of fun to them.  Even realm of the mad god is fun.

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Ypsilanti, MIPosts: 1,270Member

    Penalty for failure is absolutely mandatory. Theres a reason why Dark Souls has such a huge following. The point of a "game" is that you can win or lose. Risk vs Reward. 

    Ever since WoW came along, games have been losing the risk portion. You can say I'm wrong, you can say death penalties are pointless, but I guarantee the next big thing will go back to the root of gaming in general. Risk vs Reward.

  • aylwynnaylwynn idontsayPosts: 94Member

    The one and only "reward" is that you're still alive.

    Death penalty is an artifact of consequent games. You get a penalty for failing, death is failure - Next time you should try a different tactic.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old

    There is a reason why we don't have that anymore. Not many people want to replay part of the game just because they die.

    Dark Souls wants to have a word with you...

     

    There's a reason virtually every single easy mode dumbed down WoW clone of the last 9 years has been a huge flop. 

    You had to make that comment so you forgot that the death penalty in Dark Souls is optional.Optional because only an idiot would keep any significant amount of unallocated experience with them at any time. Not to mention you can still recover the XP if you get to your body.

    But nevermind, you clearly wanted only to bash - not to make a point.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Thedrizzle
    How bout  20%-30% xp hit like the days of old

    There is a reason why we don't have that anymore. Not many people want to replay part of the game just because they die.

    Yeah, some things didn't disappear because devs across the globe universally forgot about them. They disappeared because players didn't like them.

    It is funny that people can claim in one thread that combat is the bread and butter off mmos, the most popular thing in them, yet they feel unhappy if they are made repeating it because they made a bad decision...

    Flame on!

    :)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    Penalty for failure is absolutely mandatory. Theres a reason why Dark Souls has such a huge following. The point of a "game" is that you can win or lose. Risk vs Reward. 

    "The point of a game..."  is a very interesting point, and it makes me wonder if the shift is really a result of things being "dumbed down" or is it that these MMOs are being viewed more as an entertainment venue and a virtual world than an actual game.

    If the service is being perceived as an online venue designed to entertain, then things like risk and challenge are seen as unwanted obstacles to fun, whereas if the service is being perceived as a game, then things like risk and challenge are seen as desired obstacles to overcome for the end reward.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    Penalty for failure is absolutely mandatory. Theres a reason why Dark Souls has such a huge following. The point of a "game" is that you can win or lose. Risk vs Reward. 

    Ever since WoW came along, games have been losing the risk portion. You can say I'm wrong, you can say death penalties are pointless, but I guarantee the next big thing will go back to the root of gaming in general. Risk vs Reward.

    I am not a gambler so I prefer Challenge vs Reward.  The greater the difficulty of an encounter, the greater the reward should be.  Death penalties do not really add to the difficulty of the challenge so they do not really warrant bigger rewards. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Failure should be something that you try to avoid, not something that you drag around behind you.

     

     

    Sometimes failure is unavoidable and a process of learning how to play isn't it?

    /corpse dragging was a viable way to retrieve tombstones in Vanguard :)

    We are talking about games here. The devs can easily make failure avoidable.

  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    Its pointless, anything outside the actual death of a charater will be considered "too harsh".

    image

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