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Do free players have the right to complain about anything?

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  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    How dare anyone give me mediocre free stuff.  I demand only the finest quality free stuff.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • LeetheLeethe Posts: 876Member Uncommon

    Stick to games that actually free 2 play from the begining and stop messing around with these sub-house failures. The only reason that they throw these paywalls in your way is because they need to convince sub players that their money isn't going down a black hole. Ignore those who say you have no right to complain. If the game was actually any good they would have come up with a sustainable model from the beginning and would never have gone f2p in the 1st place. The only reason why no one is saying "the servers are dead!" is because of your presence. 

    They need you more than you need them.

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
    ______________________________
    "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Onomas

    You dont have "rights" in video games, you waivered that once you signed their agreement to play.

    But there is nothing to stop me from coming here, on a forum, to voice whatever opinion i have on a F2P game. I can go to marvel heroes forum now, and complain that their founder pack is too expensive, and it should be free instead (not that i hold that opinion, but i can go and bitch, right now).

    OTOH, the devs have no obligation to listen to me.

    So yeah, i think i have the "right" to complain because no one is going to stop me.

    And thats why the majority of complaint threads are deleted/locked.

    Sorry dont think so.

    There is a difference between trying to make the game better and just whinning about everything.  Most the complaints fall in the 2nd category and people go way overboard.

     

    And you have no rights on forums either, clearly states this when you register.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Onomas

    You dont have "rights" in video games, you waivered that once you signed their agreement to play.

    But there is nothing to stop me from coming here, on a forum, to voice whatever opinion i have on a F2P game. I can go to marvel heroes forum now, and complain that their founder pack is too expensive, and it should be free instead (not that i hold that opinion, but i can go and bitch, right now).

    OTOH, the devs have no obligation to listen to me.

    So yeah, i think i have the "right" to complain because no one is going to stop me.

    And thats why the majority of complaint threads are deleted/locked.

    Sorry dont think so.

    There is a difference between trying to make the game better and just whinning about everything.  Most the complaints fall in the 2nd category and people go way overboard.

     

    And you have no rights on forums either, clearly states this when you register.

    You must be delusional. This forum is nothing but complaints.

    Let's try it.

    I complained about STO. I think all the star ships should be free. How dare them to charge me $$$ for digital model of something i can watch on TV.

    (see if that got me banned).

  • PeenenvyPeenenvy el paso, TXPosts: 13Member

    Every player has a right. It just depends if its valid. I mean look at Asherons Call casting mechanics and jump spin to lose melee chasing you. It was never intended for that to be the game play. But, players enjoyed it so much they never touched it.

    I remember when I was 20 yrs old playing AC ( ha ha been around for awhile). I asked in chat if anyone could dye my Amuli pants. This guy whispered me telling me " I can do it." So, I open the trade passed the legs and dye to him, and he logs. I asked for DEV help and they told me its a risk you have to take, and I am pretty much beat. Kinda harsh loss, but yea I learned my lesson lol.

    I just miss those old MMOs where anything goes. I played Mordred Daoc and DT AC, where pvp chaos everywhere just felt so right and fun. The new genre of games released as in WoW catered to the player totally corrupted eveything. The Looking for group mechanic took out word pvp. Vanilla WoW and BC was the last of World PVP. You would try to summon your group, or wait on them at dungeon entrances. This was when you were ally or horde and decided to have an itch maybe take a swing at the opposite faction. This lead to a 30-40 mins calling my friends to kick your butt because you brought your whole guild situation.

    But, like most games it will be left alone and probably gone forever. Every game I have beta'd or subscribed to has followed the WoW look alike clone system of transporting you to instances for Queing. Battle ground PVP systems that make it feel more of a corporate pvp lol.

    Honestly, I don't know its so hard for me to like this new age MMO crap. If I ever pay for a new MMO it will have to be straight up hardcore PVP. Without a system coaching me down a certain path because its the only viable one. I know it is kinda off topic with some of the stuff I have said. I just can't stand when there is MMO companies and games out there with fail after fail.

    Developers stick by your guns create the game you think it should be. Stop trying to imitate WoW and go with your orginial concept of what is fun and what players would think is fun. BGs = Fail, Insta Que Dungeons=fail and Narrowing builds and gear to point your character in a specific direction is fail. Stay away from Developers with Ghostcrawler ideas and you will be ok.

     

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Onomas

    And thats why the majority of complaint threads are deleted/locked.

    Sorry dont think so.

     lol, here you get your post deleted for calling out a troll...while the troll post remains.

    Dont grasp at straws when you can attack with actual points that matter.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Onomas

    And thats why the majority of complaint threads are deleted/locked.

    Sorry dont think so.

     lol, here you get your post deleted for calling out a troll...while the troll post remains.

    Dont grasp at straws when you can attack with actual points that matter.

    I think it kind of confuses the issue when you try and include this site as an actual game site. What you can or can't do here isn't the same as the offical site for a game.

    The types of posts people are saying they can make here would get deleted or locked on most offical sites.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Abuz0r
    Free players always complain,  they have to realize they're only there to entertain the actual customers

    Well, if the concerns of the Free players were addressed then they would become more likely to be a Paying customer.

     

    well thats bull - if the game has subscription option and you play it as Free player, then you are just either too cheap to pay or (sorry) too stupid, because you are playing game that is not worth to you 15$ a month while there are hunderds of things you can do out there that ARE worth it.

    edit: ok there is a third possibility - that paying subscription doesn't give enough advantages over f2p - i actually can see myself playing vanguard as f2p since you have access to mostly everything up to high level

  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Eden Prairie, MNPosts: 338Member
    I just think the whole F2P model proves the industry is screwed no matter what. The reason why most games end up F2P is because games these days are like fast food. No real thought into any of them, nothing new, just more of the same recycled crap. People get bored and leave. F2P draws in the bum in the alley around the corner to snack on the trash we threw out when we moved on to the next food stand. The industry is the problem. Make a game people WANT to play and you won't have to sell out to the growing F2P crisis.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zooce
    Valid critisim is valid no matter who utters the words.

     

    Pretty much agree. I feel a free player's complaints about gameplay and community are just as valid as a paying player's on those topics. The only complaint I find invalid is the common one that paying players have extras. That complaint is a display of entitlement so arrogant or ignorant that it doesn't warrant acknowledgement. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Abuz0r
    Free players always complain,  they have to realize they're only there to entertain the actual customers

    Well, if the concerns of the Free players were addressed then they would become more likely to be a Paying customer.

     

    well thats bull - if the game has subscription option and you play it as Free player, then you are just either too cheap to pay or (sorry) too stupid, because you are playing game that is not worth to you 15$ a month while there are hunderds of things you can do out there that ARE worth it.

    edit: ok there is a third possibility - that paying subscription doesn't give enough advantages over f2p - i actually can see myself playing vanguard as f2p since you have access to mostly everything up to high level

    That is how it is for me too. Why sub when you can have enough free fun?

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Montreal, QCPosts: 1,278Member
    Originally posted by Zooce
    Valid critisim is valid no matter who utters the words.

    Agreed, and it's in the developers best interest to at least look at the critisism. If they want to be successful, they need to at least be open minded towards critisism, and view it as an opportunity, not a burdon.

  • vgamervgamer Texas, IAPosts: 195Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Everyone has the right to free speech. However some voices are worth more than others.

    Remember these words very well. They will come haunt you back.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    Don't know what world you want to live in but everyone has the same rights as you no matter what!
  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Eden Prairie, MNPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

    Originally posted by Zooce
    Valid critisim is valid no matter who utters the words.

    Agreed, and it's in the developers best interest to at least look at the critisism. If they want to be successful, they need to at least be open minded towards critisism, and view it as an opportunity, not a burdon.

     

    Only because I can....

    If you were a developer, shouldn't your time be best spent developing instead of trying to mitigate the eye strain of translating bad english into some sort of coherent thought? Developers aren't reading your complaints, nor do they even likely care. They're paid to develop, not play the PR game. So really, all the F2P whiners are all crying to the people that are paid to give lip service and pretend they care while tossing your ideas in the recycle bin. You don't invest anything more than the time to rant, they're not paid to care about you. It's simple.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by uidCaustic

    A free player enters a game, enjoys the game well enough, but is on the fence about the idea of paying for the product itself, or purchasing items from the in game store.  Free player voices his/hers ideas/concerns on the forums, or in game and is met by a community that respond with the vapid belief that "free players don't matter".  The developers of the game are of the mindset that the community is corrent.

    Company loses possible income do to the vapid belief that "free players don't matter".

     Ok.  FREE PLAYER isn't not playing money.  He is "on the frence" and voices some concern (unspecified by you).  The paying players voice back.  You claim the company loses possible income.  I SAY, they haven't lost a penny as a fact.

    Now you may have left off information which would change this.  Such as the "unspecified" concern.  But that would be a different bit.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by loopback1199
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    Originally posted by Zooce
    Valid critisim is valid no matter who utters the words.

    Agreed, and it's in the developers best interest to at least look at the critisism. If they want to be successful, they need to at least be open minded towards critisism, and view it as an opportunity, not a burdon.

     

    Only because I can.... If you were a developer, shouldn't your time be best spent developing instead of trying to mitigate the eye strain of translating bad english into some sort of coherent thought? Developers aren't reading your complaints, nor do they even likely care. They're paid to develop, not play the PR game. So really, all the F2P whiners are all crying to the people that are paid to give lip service and pretend they care while tossing your ideas in the recycle bin. You don't invest anything more than the time to rant, they're not paid to care about you. It's simple.

    Have you heard of marketing research? Anyone who complains is providing free data.

    Plus, you can use a text mining software instead of reading everything manually.

  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Eden Prairie, MNPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by loopback1199
    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    Originally posted by Zooce
    Valid critisim is valid no matter who utters the words.

    Agreed, and it's in the developers best interest to at least look at the critisism. If they want to be successful, they need to at least be open minded towards critisism, and view it as an opportunity, not a burdon.

     

    Only because I can.... If you were a developer, shouldn't your time be best spent developing instead of trying to mitigate the eye strain of translating bad english into some sort of coherent thought? Developers aren't reading your complaints, nor do they even likely care. They're paid to develop, not play the PR game. So really, all the F2P whiners are all crying to the people that are paid to give lip service and pretend they care while tossing your ideas in the recycle bin. You don't invest anything more than the time to rant, they're not paid to care about you. It's simple.

    Have you heard of marketing research? Anyone who complains is providing free data.

    Plus, you can use a text mining software instead of reading everything manually.

     

    Developers aren't part of the marketing division, so what's your point? Devs develop, and what they develop is decided by someone ENTIRELY different and probably higher on the pay scale. That guy making the money probably wants to continue making said money, so unless MMO's are suddenly tax exempt charities, the free players really only matter in those short lived instances when they give their credit card info to the cash shops.
  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Nope, they don't.

    As much as they believe they are needed, they are not. Only group based games are going to force people to find others. I think it's no coincidence they are doing these things that all make the free player irrelevant.

    • charging for betas
    • making more solo tasks
    • moving toward hybrids over set roles
    • dailies that are based on you completing them, not others
    • leave offline players online to be part of the world
    • buy to play instead of all free

    I do still think it's funny if they do complain and threaten to leave though unaware that the game mechanics will phase them out in future. That has been their only leg to stand on - I make your population look better - when the response is - I will work around population problems, go play another game, leech.  You aren't "needed" unless the programmers make you needed.

    It's not a new sentiment - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beggars+can%27t+be+choosers

    "Beggars can't be choosers definition

    People who depend on the generosity of others are in no position to dictate what others give them."

     

     

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,918Member Uncommon

    Tough question.  Voted no, mostly based on "if you don't like it, don't play it".

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Simple question inspired by the "Free players get what they deserve" thread.

     

    I'll weigh in on this one. No they do not. 

     

     

     

     Show us where this right is granted.  If you can't, then the right doesn't exist.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by loopback1199
    Developers aren't part of the marketing division, so what's your point? Devs develop, and what they develop is decided by someone ENTIRELY different and probably higher on the pay scale. That guy making the money probably wants to continue making said money, so unless MMO's are suddenly tax exempt charities, the free players really only matter in those short lived instances when they give their credit card info to the cash shops.

    That shows a lack of understanding of the business model.

    Free players are content for the paying whales. Whales would not be as loyal, or as motivated to pay up, if there are no content around.

    That is why you can play the whole game PS2 for free. And the free dudes matter because if it weren't for them, the whale who bought the expensive sniper rifle has few others to shoot at.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Subscribers have fewer rights to complain...there werent enough of them for the company so they went F2P to targert a NEWER LARGER AUDIENCE.

    The F2P market is larger and can generate more money.

    Not to mention the FACT that most subscribers are blind as a bat fanboys that feels its better to HIDE what is wrong with the game than help the company SEE IT, FIX IT, and bring in MORE PLAYERS...most subscribers HURT games more than help. Guess thats why game makers like Raph Koster has been telling the industry to ignore the players, the players like to be told by the company what it is they like and instead listen to the people that DONT play their game to learn how to draw them in.

    This is just flatout wrong. Suscribers are usually big fans and big critics at the same time. Some of the most vocal critics are subscribers.

    Froobs overwhelmingly just play what is on offer and if they don't enjoy the game they move on. They have no interest in the game beyond that.

    The people who have the ability to shape and change the game are those that pay for it, whether through cash shop or a sub.

    Your post sounds hateful.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • Tyvolus4Tyvolus4 lincoln, NEPosts: 175Member Uncommon

    every F2P game I am currently playing I spend my money on.  So, that makes me a paying customer.  Im sure it isnt a reach for some of you to grasp that I am not the only F2P gamer out there that drops my fair share of $$$ in said cash shops.  Sorry to have to point out the painfully obvious but for some people its kinda needed.

     

    FREE PLAYERS SPEND MONEY IN CASH SHOPS.  make sense ?  good.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Tyvolus4

    every F2P game I am currently playing I spend my money on.  So, that makes me a paying customer.  Im sure it isnt a reach for some of you to grasp that I am not the only F2P gamer out there that drops my fair share of $$$ in said cash shops.  Sorry to have to point out the painfully obvious but for some people its kinda needed.

     

    FREE PLAYERS SPEND MONEY IN CASH SHOPS.  make sense ?  good.

    You are not a free player if you spend money in the cash shop. You are just paying à la carte.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
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