Originally posted by Jemcrystal You win thread title of the year, lolz. I never complain because a game is f2p or p2p or b2p, tho I will complain about price - plz give us our money's worth no matter what the model. I do complain that people do not know f2p really means Share To Play. It works the same way as a box or pay. There is no such thing as free.
Someone elses pay. I play and give no money. How is that not free for me?
Everytime a game goes F2P we see the same thing. People coming here to whine and cry about what they don't get compared to the people who have either chose to keep their accounts going or have started the game with an elite/paid account. These companies are not making these games for your charity. If a player chooses to pay for a game they should get much better service than the freeloader that feel they are entitled to the same benefits. I pay for the MMOs I choose to play I suppose the exception is GW2 due to it not having the option. In those games that' I dedicate my time and pay for I feel all the people who choose not to pay get what they deserve. I have listened people actually claim that all the limitations that get imposed on F2P are bad business models. Lol not getting paid is a bad business model.
I don't think you understand business or this business model at all. There are quite a few business models out there - they are:
1. B2P +sub (which can include a CS)
2. B2P (which can include a CS)
3.F2P (which can include a CS)
4. F2P - with a B2P or sub option giving special items, etc for this.
5. F2P (w/o CS) - to rope you in to a new company and wanting to try other games that can use options 1-4.
Depending on how the company is set up and how they do it, all can make money on this. An example is TERA which is now using option 4 - and people are spending the extra to get a box.
All can make money.
Remember, you are not getting something for nothing - you will eventually pay somehow.
Remember, you are not getting something for nothing - you will eventually pay somehow.
"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.
But sure, you are not getting somethign for nothing .. your play-time is content for the paid customers. That is how it works. You don't need to pay because by playing, you are already providing value. That is what i call a win-win.
Everytime a game goes F2P we see the same thing. People coming here to whine and cry about what they don't get compared to the people who have either chose to keep their accounts going or have started the game with an elite/paid account. These companies are not making these games for your charity. If a player chooses to pay for a game they should get much better service than the freeloader that feel they are entitled to the same benefits. I pay for the MMOs I choose to play I suppose the exception is GW2 due to it not having the option. In those games that' I dedicate my time and pay for I feel all the people who choose not to pay get what they deserve. I have listened people actually claim that all the limitations that get imposed on F2P are bad business models. Lol not getting paid is a bad business model.
Originally posted by Gravarg i'll take a P2P game over a F2P game. In a P2P people are more obligated to play nice, while F2P games people don't really care, since it's not costing them anything yet. There's alot less whining in P2P games, in F2P all you hear is people crying over little stuff all the time.
Good one! Wait...were you serious?
You have obviously never played on any of the WoW servers that I played on. And, before Tera went F2P, it was the worst of the entire genre. I am obviously speaking from my personal experience.
keep saying whatever you need to in order to try to hide the fact that you are getting suckered out of money every month.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Remember, you are not getting something for nothing - you will eventually pay somehow.
"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.
This is me as well. I have spent about $25.00 total on the F2P titles that I have played. Besides opening more bank/inventory slots, I see noting that interests me in cash shops.
F2P is fine with me as long as people who bought the game or subscribed before are adequately rewarded, I.E. Free silver membership on my EQ accounts etc. Honestly I feel it should be gold because I know have sank over a thousand dollars into EQ easily. But, I'm still playing so that's saying something
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by jtcgs keep saying whatever you need to in order to try to hide the fact that you are getting suckered out of money every month.
That was my thought exactly. Weird that people take pride in getting duped. How can there be any pride in people getting taken for their money it's like walking around strutting because you pay a power bill when there are perfectly viable home generators, or strutting because you pay a water bill when there are perfectly viable water reclamation/purification units.
Seeing how easily companies do F2P conversion I have began to wonder if they could still provide different versions of the game. The balanced subscription based version and the P2W F2P version of the game.
There are many awesome F2P games that a ruined by the P2W cash shop and could easily function as a P2P game. (Looking at you Atlantica Online).
I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.
TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little.
Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.
I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.
TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little.
Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.
That is not the model. You do NOT need a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the devs. The model is to have a few players play a lot (whales) instead of having a large chunk of the playerbase paying.
I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.
TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little.
Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.
That is not the model. You do NOT need a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the devs. The model is to have a few players play a lot (whales) instead of having a large chunk of the playerbase paying.
If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around.
In other genres f2p games live off small micro payments from a very high % of players. Its not 5% of the community spending hundreds of dollars each a month. Its people buying starter packs, paying 5 dollars for XP boosts and maybe unlocking a gun. There are "whales" but those games dont overlly rely on them like MMOs do with the f2p model.
If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around.
There is no evidence for that statement. And what majority of F2P games are dying off?
DDO is still running.
LOTRO is still running.
DCUO is still running.
the list goes on and on.
And let me clue you in .... you also don't need the same whales to be around, there are new ones.
"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.
So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.
I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.
"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.
So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.
I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.
Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.
And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.
"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.
So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.
I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.
Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.
And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.
I respect the way you play and pay, but I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm definitely not a whale (at least compared to what I used to spend on sub-locked p2p games), but I'm the type that does spend money on my games.
@Ref - I don't stick to one game which is why I love sub-free games (both f2p and b2p - they're about the same to me), but I also spend money on the games I like and play a lot. I don't see the free portion as a trial because my favorite games don't lock much, if any, content behind the paywall. However, I do get account and character enhancements that provide what I consider a superior game play experience compared to not paying.
For example, I love rolling alts in most games so I tend to purchase extra character slots. I buy inventory and bank slots. I will occasionally buy a mount or some other item. I tend to buy account unlocks where possible rather than character only items/unlocks because it adds value to the entire game for me. I will also occasionally subscribe or buy a month or two of premium account status if that provides higher long term value to the account than purchasing unlocks in the store.
So far, my spending per game is about $100 per year or less which is less than what I had been spending on sub-locked games. The games I'm playing now are Tera, GW2, STO, and TSW.
My comment was specific to Narius who has stated he will not pay a cent for his gaming.
I like the f2p model in Achaea and other MUDs. They are f2p, there's an in-game cash shop, and you can subscribe to an elite membership that gives you XP bonus and monthly tokens to spend at cash shop. If you want to play COMPLETELY f2p, you can grind to make gold to buy cash-shop tokens from other players. So if you dont mind grinding you can be pretty competitive vs people who spend $$$. It works for everyone imo.
from here: are good and bad games: - good games have subs and/or buy to play, item shop payments (WoW has all said), all works good, they have money, few people suggest something etc. - bad game also can have sub, but it fail; buy to play, but people complain about; item shop, but nobody use it. Worst cases however.
usually games are somehow medium quality and some people want them to get better, so devs or listen and win customers; or block every post and loose deal.
I think are no best payment model, but good game with good income and large population (even if whole auditory wants just to buy might) or failing subs and no income.
from here to pay 200$ for develop game quality of which is unknown, I would tell: no thanks as I'll never buy an empty game box, for example, or sub before game release.
so to me it's not a payment model but game QUALITY is primordial.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
My problem is a lot of F2P models are cash grabs, a LOT more then the P2P model. In a f2p model unfortunately it often can rake in MORE cash from loyal players to the game as they try to milk you in a lot more ways.
The thing is as well, a lot of Eastern games have actually really amazing F2P models that are very open, very little of the cash shop goods even being 'needed' in order to fully experience the game. Its very possible to have a good F2P model without major advantages or raking in a lot more cash from players who would of paid monthly, but the problem is to many games make profits far above gameplay and in this area, I feel they suffer down the road more then they realize.
If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around.
There is no evidence for that statement. And what majority of F2P games are dying off?
DDO is still running.
LOTRO is still running.
DCUO is still running.
the list goes on and on.
And let me clue you in .... you also don't need the same whales to be around, there are new ones.
I'm not entirely convinced that whales are the majority subsidizers anymore, at least in most western based games. In my sub-free games with cash shops you can only spend so much before there isn't much to spend on. It's not like spending $100+ a month gets you anywhere faster or gives you a better experience than $10 - $30 per month.
Are there many cash shop games that don't offer instance reset scrolls, or xp buff pots, or drop multipliers, or whatever else then?
I am sure there is a huge invisible market market in all types of consumables to the player that feels driven to be competitive.... Especially when the XP or drop rate or whatever is unspokenly lowered after conversion to manipulate the player into spending.
Consumables are where the money is made really, you probably just don't see them being consumed.
Comments
Someone elses pay. I play and give no money. How is that not free for me?
I don't think you understand business or this business model at all. There are quite a few business models out there - they are:
1. B2P +sub (which can include a CS)
2. B2P (which can include a CS)
3.F2P (which can include a CS)
4. F2P - with a B2P or sub option giving special items, etc for this.
5. F2P (w/o CS) - to rope you in to a new company and wanting to try other games that can use options 1-4.
Depending on how the company is set up and how they do it, all can make money on this. An example is TERA which is now using option 4 - and people are spending the extra to get a box.
All can make money.
Remember, you are not getting something for nothing - you will eventually pay somehow.
"Eventually pay"? I move on to another game before that happens.
But sure, you are not getting somethign for nothing .. your play-time is content for the paid customers. That is how it works. You don't need to pay because by playing, you are already providing value. That is what i call a win-win.
agreed. As long as I have a sub option, I'm cool.
Good one! Wait...were you serious?
You have obviously never played on any of the WoW servers that I played on. And, before Tera went F2P, it was the worst of the entire genre. I am obviously speaking from my personal experience.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
This is me as well. I have spent about $25.00 total on the F2P titles that I have played. Besides opening more bank/inventory slots, I see noting that interests me in cash shops.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Why would you care if someone else is being 'suckered'?
Research shows that a majority of MMO players do not pay. So tell that to them (and i am one of them).
That was my thought exactly. Weird that people take pride in getting duped. How can there be any pride in people getting taken for their money it's like walking around strutting because you pay a power bill when there are perfectly viable home generators, or strutting because you pay a water bill when there are perfectly viable water reclamation/purification units.
Seeing how easily companies do F2P conversion I have began to wonder if they could still provide different versions of the game. The balanced subscription based version and the P2W F2P version of the game.
There are many awesome F2P games that a ruined by the P2W cash shop and could easily function as a P2P game. (Looking at you Atlantica Online).
F2p works well in other gaming genres.
I've yet to see a good model in this genre that gives free players enough freedom to enjoy the game while still having a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the developer.
TERA in my opinion gives too much, Games like SWTOR and LotRO give too little.
Free players will always complain about restrictions but they all know the game requires money to function and its been proven that in most cases cosmetics don't yield the revenue delevopers require to keep the game going.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
That is not the model. You do NOT need a large chunk of the playerbase supporting the devs. The model is to have a few players play a lot (whales) instead of having a large chunk of the playerbase paying.
If you thrive off whales sooner or later your game will die. you need the majority of the playerbase to support your game. this is why the majority of F2p games will die off in a few years. those "whales" wont always be around.
In other genres f2p games live off small micro payments from a very high % of players. Its not 5% of the community spending hundreds of dollars each a month. Its people buying starter packs, paying 5 dollars for XP boosts and maybe unlocking a gun. There are "whales" but those games dont overlly rely on them like MMOs do with the f2p model.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
There is no evidence for that statement. And what majority of F2P games are dying off?
DDO is still running.
LOTRO is still running.
DCUO is still running.
the list goes on and on.
And let me clue you in .... you also don't need the same whales to be around, there are new ones.
So in essence you are playing the free trial, then when the restriction of not paying starts to bite and the game ceases to be fun you are forced to leave.
I would rather find a game I enjoy and then pay a small amount of money to continue my enjoyment.
Yes. And given how much free content there is, i don't even have time to reach that point. Case in point, i am far far from finishing STO story missions, which are all free.
And why would i want to play ONE game when i can play a hundred? Finding a game i enjoy is easy ... finding time to enjoy them all is hard. So there is really no need to pay for any of them.
My comment was specific to Narius who has stated he will not pay a cent for his gaming.
complain about f2p, hmm, sounds strange..
from here:
are good and bad games:
- good games have subs and/or buy to play, item shop payments (WoW has all said), all works good, they have money, few people suggest something etc.
- bad game also can have sub, but it fail; buy to play, but people complain about; item shop, but nobody use it. Worst cases however.
usually games are somehow medium quality and some people want them to get better, so devs or listen and win customers; or block every post and loose deal.
I think are no best payment model, but good game with good income and large population (even if whole auditory wants just to buy might) or failing subs and no income.
from here to pay 200$ for develop game quality of which is unknown, I would tell: no thanks as I'll never buy an empty game box, for example, or sub before game release.
so to me it's not a payment model but game QUALITY is primordial.
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
My problem is a lot of F2P models are cash grabs, a LOT more then the P2P model. In a f2p model unfortunately it often can rake in MORE cash from loyal players to the game as they try to milk you in a lot more ways.
The thing is as well, a lot of Eastern games have actually really amazing F2P models that are very open, very little of the cash shop goods even being 'needed' in order to fully experience the game. Its very possible to have a good F2P model without major advantages or raking in a lot more cash from players who would of paid monthly, but the problem is to many games make profits far above gameplay and in this area, I feel they suffer down the road more then they realize.
Are there many cash shop games that don't offer instance reset scrolls, or xp buff pots, or drop multipliers, or whatever else then?
I am sure there is a huge invisible market market in all types of consumables to the player that feels driven to be competitive.... Especially when the XP or drop rate or whatever is unspokenly lowered after conversion to manipulate the player into spending.
Consumables are where the money is made really, you probably just don't see them being consumed.