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Camelot Unchained: No Hand Holding Allowed
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The latest developer blog has shown up on the Camelot Unchained site. In it, the team reveals that they do not believe 'hand holding' of their players is required. It's an interesting look at what the team has in mind as compared to the vast majority of today's MMOs.
As an independent developer of a lower-budget, lower subscription target MMORPG (using today’s inflated scale), we retain more than our fair measure of creative freedom that I wouldn’t trade for a larger budget and longer development timeline (been there, done that). I want the freedom to take some risks with this game without enduring sleepless nights as I worry about whether a feature (or lack thereof) will alienate too many players, anger the boss, piss off the investors, etc. I like waking up thinking “This is a really freaking cool idea let’s try it!” or “Wasn’t it cool when you were wandering around in the dark not knowing what might jump out at you?” rather than having to endure conversations like “Mark, if we do this we can sell-in another 100K boxes.” We need to look at the evolution of these games and see what features (or again, lack thereof) made older MMORPGs seem more immersive and/or challenging and dare I say it (dare, dare!), realistic, even if a minority of players complained about them in the past and might still complain about them now.
Read more on the Camelot Unchained site.
Comments
If you dont do stupid things while youre young, youll have nothing to smile about when youre old.
He is atleast saying the right things.
Now we have to wait to see it translated into the game.
Hes not saying that hes implementing inovative idea's On the contrary from what i read here He is grabing the idea's the first MMO's used and implementing them no shortcuts no bullshit qeus etc.
I agree with Merxion. I also think that many developers with these cool ideas don't actually plan to endure the tedious difficulties they plan to throw at the players. How many of the rich guys who are working on games and have a social life actually have time to play the game they have made?
I really believe many bad games have been made because the developers don't actually play the games they create or understand what makes them fun or tedious.
I think Mark has said some good things but from what I understand he orignally thought ToA was a cool idea. Maybe it was fun on paper but I doubt he ever participated in one othe ridiculously long and complicated master level raids.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Got to say: he makes the right noises to get me interested.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Hm, i think they're trying to take the 'good' from the old days and mash it up with the good of the new days.
For example: In the very beginning, WoW was about exploration: You had to read what the quest told you and then process that information with information about your surroundings. It did not paint a marker on yor map and told you "go there". It gave you directions: "From here, go northeast until you find that big tree, then turn left along the mountains until you find a dell. There you will find your macguffin". You had to take in the world in order to orient yourself instead of simply following a pulsing arrow (meta gaming) on your UI.
The UI replaced the game world as your primary focus in many MMORPGs, and I find that a very sad thing. It took away player ability and player immersion, and added convenience. Convenience is not a bad thing in itself - we constantly try to make the world more so.
But in a game it is ultimately self-defeating. taken to extremes, the convenient game is the one that demands the least from a player: It plays itself.
In my mind, the true art of a game designer is to balance convenience with challenge, and the have right kinds of each. I've read all developer blogs of CU, and I feel the urge to give a kudos to Mark. Though it remains to be seen how his ideas ultimately work out, I think he is on the right track to make a game I potentially am very interested in.
Finally somebody gets it. I've been yelling for years that MMOs have become too much like overprotective parents. Let your kids (players in this case) go lick that light socket...they'll only do it once...or twice, then if they do it more than that, you might need to take them in for some testing lol.
Edit: Kinda off topic, but I have no clue how I survived my childhood. Back then "Childproofing" your house was throwing the kids outside and locking the door roflmao.
Agreed. With the lucky 10 hrs a week I get in for game time I'm not sure yet if this game will be for me personally right now until I see it in action. Personally, it take me a long time to max level anything nowadays anyways.
It is an indie project being kickstarted by gamers. What do you think the future of such niche MMO really is? i think we already know the answer.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I don't really agree with him on the respecing thing. The way I look it; if the devs make it possible to gimp your character then it is their fault when players gimp their characters. Especially if the devs don't provide a clear explanation of what each skill and ability does and how they interact with each other right from the very begining.
I mean, if I spend months working on a character only to discover I'm screwed because I didn't take a certain skill or whatever--and now it's too late to take it---but nothing in the game explained to me how I would be screwed if I didn't take it, well, I'm going to be royally pissed off and rightly so.
I can't read the minds of the developers. How was I supposed to know that you decided to add a few more numbers <here> and a few less <there> and you decided to link ability <A> with skill <Y> even though there is no obvious logical connection between the two?
So if you have a system which makes it possible for players to gimp their characters you damn well better lay out all the information they need to avoid said gimpage or YOU, the devs, are the ones to blame for it.
Yeah Mark is pulling alll the right strings to get the MMORPG bittervets interested. Now the only thing that remains to be see if he can pull it off.
new interview with MJ
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=31796
"In terms of no content patches, well, since the team doesn’t have to spend its time building new content that players will burn through quickly, we can spend our time and money building new content they won’t burn through as quickly. ?"
Jesus Christ, how did this guy suddenly realize almost everything that's wrong with the current MMO genre?
Mark, you've got all the right ideas. Hope you'll make them happen
Seriously, loved that part as well.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Seems to be going pure RvRvR and hitting most of the right notes, and not surprisingly the RvRvR aficionados are pulling for this big time.
If they don't botch this up, we'll really see how big a playerbase there is for this kind of game out there. Going to be an interesting experiment for sure.
I must confess, I am enjoying the sound of this game. Although, very little of this game in the terms of knowledge, combat, interaction etc etc is made available for a sound opinion or arguement to be made for or against it.
There was a comment above about how people look back to these type of games in fondness, but that might not translate well with regards to how MMORPGers expect a game to be. I agree and disagree in part.
Games today are streamlined to be as available as they can be for a wide range of audience. It is essentially cutting the fat off and leaning the gaming experience, to make them more 'friendly' to those whom only have an hour or so to dedicate a day or even just a few hours a week. I would say this mentality, although it does a nnoy me a little bit has helped greatly bring a wider audience into the MMO scene which has resulted (good or bad) in a healthy populace of potential players to interact with.
Peoples pacing and expectations in games are somewhat flawed in my opinion now, for it has become the mentality and the social norm to which the end game as quick as they can. The prior levels existing as a form of frustration and tutorial which they 'have' to do in order to get to where the actual game is. After all, the majority of our gaming time is spent 'end game' and as such that is (in our minds at least) when the game truely begins.
I want this to change, you want this to change. But like all over MMO shut ins we fear change and after having our hopes and dreams about the 'next big thing' or the 'WoW beater' we've come to expect that not much can be had, at least, not in a fun way.
Today, I played WoW a game I still enjoy, but I admit not as much as I did when I first picked it up many moons ago. I was making an alt and in my perhaps two hours or so of play I had leveled 15 times. The thrill and joy of leveling just wasn't there for me, I just moved on to what was next to do on the shopping list.
So if a game comes along with the expectation that it will take a long time to get a single level, then I would welcome it (although this is not confirmed in the blog). If that was the case, then the open world aspect of the game, the no hand holding, the crafting centric vision and the social interactions that this game is aiming to foster will perhaps rebuild a sense of community which has been long lost in games these days.
WoW as a game would not be as big as it is today with its current model if it was released a-new in todays market. Two things contributed to its massive success, the first being the little hand holding involved which prompted hours and hours of countless discussions, guides and social interactions. The second being the massive amounts of pop culture references which link in something new with something familuar.
If this game CU commits to nurturing the social experience of an MMO, be it through shops or just plain interaction in any regard I am sure we will be met with a very niche game. But, for now, that remains to be seen.
I am for the least part, hopeful.
I am really curious what a MMO Hipster is in your opinion ?
If players who want a game with less hand holding, and more difficulty are considered "Hipsters" then i guess i am one of those.
I will not appologize for expecting less baby gameplay and wanting more adult gameplay, i am sure one difficult game will not upset the babies too much.
Lolipops !
sorry, no hand holding for you on this one
tsk tsk tsk