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Has faction lock made u lose intrest?

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  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

    1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

    2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

    3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

    4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

    5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

    6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

    7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

    8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

    9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

    10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

    I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

    You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

    ... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

    I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

    Excelent summary.

    I also want to support this post. It's not that any of us don't like DAoC, because I'm sure we all do. It was my first MMORPG after all, but we expected a TES game, not a DAoC 2 when they announced ESO.

  • AstraeisAstraeis AmsterdamPosts: 331Member Uncommon
    I have not yet lost all interest, but I lost all hope of this becoming an Elder Scroll game inspired by Morrowind and being on par with the Elder Scroll series on offering maximum freedom of choice in gameplay.

    It takes one to know one.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    I'm still interested to see what they've got to show us when the game will hit the stores. I can't loose interest in some game just because there's this 1 feature that I find bad. I knew from the begining it'll be an mmorpg and with that in mind I expected them to make faction locks and other mmorpgish crappy adjustments. It would be great if your actions and choices would actually determine what faction will you part with but I guess they had something else in mind and I'll just have to wait and see since it's harder to make an mmorpg which would give you the absolute freedom like you have in morrowind.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • RukushinRukushin Jackson, NJPosts: 82Member Common

    Originally posted by nate1980

    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

    1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

    2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

    3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

    4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

    5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

    6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

    7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

    8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

    9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

    10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

    I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

    You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

    ... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

    I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

    Excelent summary.

    I also want to support this post. It's not that any of us don't like DAoC, because I'm sure we all do. It was my first MMORPG after all, but we expected a TES game, not a DAoC 2 when they announced ESO.

    Originally posted by Astraeis
    I have not yet lost all interest, but I lost all hope of this becoming an Elder Scroll game inspired by Morrowind and being on par with the Elder Scroll series on offering maximum freedom of choice in gameplay.

    Definitely agree with both of these. I haven't played DAoC, but it sounds to be mostly a PvP game. I never played a TES game until after I heard about ESO. 

    I hear alot of PvP focused people and DAoC fans screaming, "The game is perfect because it copies what DAoC started"

    I hear alot of PvE focused people and TES fans screaming, "NOO! get DAoC out of my TES game and where is my freedom and choice??!?!?!"

    Well from someone who hasn't played either DAoC or TES, but is a huge MMO player starting from Everquest to Matrix Online, WoW, Aion, Rift, Guild Wars, SWTOR, EVE Online, Lineage....I mean christ I could go on, but the point is I'm almost strickly an MMO gamer.

    From my point of view I stand more with the TES fans in that my interest is almost gone for this game. Not for the races locked to factions, but factions locked to certain zones. People speak of WoW PvP being terribly instanced but having to only PvP in Cyrodil is the same exact thing just on a larger scale. An MMO is supposed to be MASSIVE and as such it is a horrible slap in the face when you cut up the world into little zones.

    Also, why are PvPers mostly the ones who are loving the zone and faction locks? So you honestly feel that factions being locked fits into a TES universe or does it just help your PvP to be better because it's been tried, tested, and true in DAoC?

    I dont see a balance here in PvE and PvP, what I am seeing is this to be a PvP game with PvE sprinkled on the side. That worked out so well with Warhammer:Age of Reckoning(vomit). 

    Very sad that this will not be as revitalizing to the MMO genre as I previously thought. Instead it seems the MMO renaissance will have to wait until Project Titan.

  • GrumpyBuddhaGrumpyBuddha HamburgPosts: 8Member
    Faction lock puts ESO in line with all the other MMOs out there, nothing exceptional here anymore. If I think this through I guess I have no interest in another SWTOR.
  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    Yep, took this game righ toff my radar, It will have to do something really amazing in the game play streams for me to pick it up.

     

    Otherwise this is star wars 2.0

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  • TucrossTucross Red Deer, ABPosts: 2Member

    Hello everyone,

     

    I can understand why faction lock is a major disappointment for TES players. It puts a limit on your freedom, and even though it makes complete sense from a PVP standpoint, it ruins a uniqueness that TES has established in its series. But I would like to think there is a middle ground, and I apologize if someone else has mentioned this already...

     

    Why not allow a quest/reputation grinding in order to join a new faction? I mean.. everyone wins then, right? You could technically explore all the territories, do all the unique quests, etc - just at the expense of being exiled from the alliance you betrayed. For example, you like the Ebonheart pact, but your favorite character is a Khajiit and you want to explore the entire world. You explore all of the The Aldmeri Dominion, after that you move onto The Daggerfall Covenant, and finally reaching your final destination of The Ebonheart Pact. Yes, you are exiled (meaning you cannot take the quest to get back into said faction), but you have explored all that you have wanted and ended up in the faction you have wanted. This is a rough idea of what I am trying to explain, but I hope you can paint the picture yourself.

     

    This is simple brain storming, and kind of stealing the idea from other games, but I hope the developers can think of something to make everyone happy while still maintaining their grips on PVP and general gameplay balance.

  • GrumpyBuddhaGrumpyBuddha HamburgPosts: 8Member
    The Elder Scrolls series has always been about freedom. Do whatever you like, whereever you want. Locking in factions is taking away from this freedom, and implementing some sort of faction betrayal cannot be a solution to this fundamental flaw.
  • kosackosac Bakov nad JizerouPosts: 189Member Uncommon

    - faction lock is bad

    - classes are bad

    - no or limited respec are bad

    I love RvR but i prefer Aliance vs Aliance and freedom of character creation and switching it everytime.. no game at this time on market with this options... only TSW is close but there is not real PVP and aliance system.. and cannot switch society :(

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

    1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

    2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

    3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

    4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

    5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

    6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

    7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

    8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

    9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

    10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

    I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

    You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

    ... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

    I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

    Excelent summary.

    I also want to support this post. It's not that any of us don't like DAoC, because I'm sure we all do. It was my first MMORPG after all, but we expected a TES game, not a DAoC 2 when they announced ESO.

    Totally agree, if they rethought the faction lock then it might rekindle my interest in the game, if they dont then i never will. Some of those points are so glaringly obvious that i just dont see what Zenimax were thinking of, as for the PVP, no matter how vociferous the PVP centric players may get, they represent a minority, as player interest has repeatedly been found to be mostly PVE orientated, by as much as a 80/20 split, if Zenimax doesnt take note of this much at least, then they will consign the game to a niche status, that may even be far less than Eve Online'.  imo, the games success hinges on the game world, and having a completely segregated game world, with faction locking is a step backwards, Zenimax should bite the bullet and innovate, not segregate. There are already more than enough instance heavy MMO's out there, we really don't need to add to that particular pile.image

  • TucrossTucross Red Deer, ABPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by GrumpyBuddha
    The Elder Scrolls series has always been about freedom. Do whatever you like, whereever you want. Locking in factions is taking away from this freedom, and implementing some sort of faction betrayal cannot be a solution to this fundamental flaw.

    I agree, it is a fundamental flaw. But like it has been stated, the faction lock is mostly in the interest of balancing PVP, encounters, and building a community on an otherwise mega-server. So the goal then would be to find a middle ground, maybe something that is not exactly what all sides of the argument want, but good enough to build a bridge and make an enjoyable transition from the single player TES series most of us love, to the online mess I am sure most of us will complain about but still throw some money at.

     

    I am not saying the idea I posted was the solution, but something along those lines could give everyone the gameplay experience they want to some degree.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Kosac
    You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Where's this "tes fans vs daoc fans" nonsense come from. I'm a fan if both. Many of these so called "tes fans" are fans of other mmos in disguise, its pretty obvious when you see their fix suggestions when they have more in common with wow, tsw, swg, EQ etc.. than they do tes.

    Fact is tes single player doesn't have pvp (or group pve or raids or ecconomy) BECAUSE IT'S A SINGLE PLAYER GAME NOT A MMO.

    So they had to either come up with something new for pvp or take an existing model. Imo an eve type model would fit tes better, but it would scare away all the carebears. Thank god they picked a good game to copy pvp off in daoc though. There's so many shit pc models they could have copied - wow (like everyone else), star wars galaxies, EQ, the secret world etc..
  • aylwynnaylwynn idontsayPosts: 94Member

    faction lock is the way to go in teso.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    I tend to be a one toon gamer but with TESO I have to roll 2 more toons to be able to explore everything and that is stupid.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • AstraeisAstraeis AmsterdamPosts: 331Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Kosac
    You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.

    Still, open world PvP would be nice.

    It takes one to know one.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    I tend to be a one toon gamer but with TESO I have to roll 2 more toons to be able to explore everything and that is stupid.

     You don't have to, you just want to. Stupid is confusing "want" with "have to."

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Astraeis
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Kosac
    You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.

    Still, open world PvP would be nice.

    I totally disagree. I have seen enough "open world PVP" in PVP servers in too many MMOs to believe the hype that it is anything other than griefing. A soldier in a battlefield who kills you is just doing his job. One that does it at a mall while you're trying on a pair of pants is just a murderer.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon

    All the freedom of the original Elder Scrolls Game is still here.  You get access to more zones then any single TES game ever made.  You have the perfect combination of MMO systems and TES systems.  You still have the freedom to wear any weapon or armor and to progress your character using a resource driven combat system (Stam, Health, Magika).  You have the perfect blend of Themepark systems with Elder Scrolls open world exploration centric gameplay.  You have acces to arguably the best form of PvP.  There is going to be a return to open publix dungeons that made MMO's of old more sociable and fostered community growth.

     

    Sounds like an amazing list to look forward too and I for one can't wait.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • OldskooOldskoo Minneapolis, MNPosts: 189Member

    I am somewhat on the fence on this issue but there has been some good points brought up. Either way, I think people on both sides of the issue should  just wait and see what happens until they make any decisions about the game. They may find out that something they didn't like (or liked) before is actually fun to them now.

    When I first started playing online games, UO was my first experience. After getting taken to school by "PKs" quite a few time, I decided pvp games weren't for me. Luckily for me, Everquest (1) came out and I left UO and never went back. As I have gotten more experienced and tried many games, I actually grew to appreciate my time in UO and began to find myself drawn back to the PVP games I used to avoid. Now I prefer those games (when done correctly).

    That's why I am excited about faction lock and what ESO looks like it is shaping up to be. My only fear would be that it tries to be everything for everyone and winds up doing nothing well. Still, I am pretty sure I'll be there the first weekend ESO goes live and finding out first hand.

    image

  • AstraeisAstraeis AmsterdamPosts: 331Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Astraeis
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Kosac
    You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.

    Still, open world PvP would be nice.

    I totally disagree. I have seen enough "open world PVP" in PVP servers in too many MMOs to believe the hype that it is anything other than griefing. A soldier in a battlefield who kills you is just doing his job. One that does it at a mall while you're trying on a pair of pants is just a murderer.

    Everything has its down side, but when the combat system is truly engaging and fun, I would not mind being ganked and having to mobilize my allies every now and then. When the combat system is no fun I am not interested in PvP anyway. For a PvP centric game like TESO that will be a no go for me. For some reason I have the feeling that faction lock and separation is related to the fact that the combat system is not engaging enough.

    It takes one to know one.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon
    What a terrible idea.  This goes against the philosophy of the Elder Scrolls in general.  It's another Swtor in the making.  Both Empire and Republic factions can't see each other for the first several planets.
  • TheHamartiaComplexTheHamartiaComplex saratoga springs, NYPosts: 2Member

    Virgin post :)

    First of all, I love Skyrim, and am SO PUMPED for the Elder Scrolls Online. I will play it regardless. I understand the reason for the developers choosing to go this route, however, I disagree with it. 

    As previously discussed here, faction locked territories simply are a let down for anybody that loves exploring the entire world in a 'sandbox' fashion. The discussion is centered around ganking and the concern that enemy players could disrupt your leveling, but I think it is the wrong discussion. It is simply an injustice to make a huge, beautiful world (which, by the screenshots and videos I have seen, looks that way) and then keep 2/3 of the players in the game from exploring any given faction zone. All gameplay implications aside, it is the wrong idea to start off with for the Elder Scrolls Online. Let us go anywhere!

    Another gigantic flaw with this idea is that Skyrim is in the Ebonheart Pact territory. I haven't read every single reply to this discussion, so I don't know if I'm kicking a dead horse, but wouldn't an overwhelming majority of people then play for the Ebonheart Pact? I, for one, want to go to Skyrim in this game! If territories are faction locked, I am definitely making a dark elf. HOWEVER, I also want to go see every single territory on my main character.

    I do not plan on making an alt for a long time, probably not until I reach level 50. And even if I do make an alt, I would like to play on the same faction, with the same team. That's how I viscerally feel about my MMO experience. I take a side, and stick to it through the entirety of the game. The point is, if part of their attempt is to increase replayability with this decision, they've even made wrong assumptions there. For players like me, it will actually destroy my replayability. Forcing me to play with different factions is really annoying and frustrating

    As a hardcore RPG fan, I would absolutely love to see them change their minds on this one. I signed up for beta, so if I get in, Zenimax Online can count on my being very vocal against this.

     

    What are we running from?
    There's a distant sound of a melody...

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member Uncommon

    I would have liked to see players being able to pick their factions. You join the mages guild, maybe they have a hate on for the assassin guild.  You pick the faction you want, but you don't just make new friends you gain enemies.  That to me would be more like Elder Scrolls.

    This forced faction stuff will only hurt player numbers. In a world where there are many many mmo's to pick from and a req X number of people playing, I fail to see the logic.  More like, once more we get a dev who believes they know what people want and will drive the game into the ground before doubting their own awesumeness.

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,977Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    I don't mind not having the entire map to roam for pve, if anything I'd rather have it that way.  DAoC was the best gaming experience I've ever had and part of the draw was seeing enemies as real invaders from unknown lands.  A lot of the mystery would be lost if enemies could freely mingle outside of the open world pvp areas.

    Ah this is it for me too.  It made the other faction somewhat "mysterious" if you had never played them.  It also gave a sense of belonging to your side.  Speaking of DAoC.  The enemy were truly outsiders.  The biggest dissapointiment for me was that the WvWvW in GW2 was all races against all races. 

    Take a look at Rift etc.  It just makes more sense.   Now I think you should be able to explore as long as you are flagged immediately for PvP when you eneter someone elses land.

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