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[Preview] Neverwinter: Off to a Good Start

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  • hadatihadati Seattle, WAPosts: 27Member
    Dang!  5 classes?  That's weak.  Now I'm definitely holding off... until they have Ranger and a few others everyone will be walking around looking like a cookie-cutter of everyone else.  Just disappointing Cryptic.  Get on the ball!  You should be releasing with at least 7 to 10 classes or this game is going to get very old very fast.

    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by konseptual

    There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. They've hinted very strongly at an "Archer" class, without calling it a Ranger. And people have found the Warlock class mixed in with the patch files, including the spell names. They could just as easily be available at launch, but be purchasable.

    I played all weekend and enjoyed it. Leveled a cleric up to 30. The idea of the pre-made builds is my one big hesitation. I wouldn't even play Champions Online for free, for the pre-made characters were, well, pre-made. They're getting inindated with posts about class customization and "cookie cutter' builds and that sort of thing on the beta and regular forums. We'll see how they address this. I think that part of the game design was their intention from the beginning, so I hold little hope. 

    Suzie, your streaming video with Zeke was the first video I watched. A lot of fun, particularly the way you ran ahead a couple times to kill everything. I didn't crash once this entire weekend and it seems like that have the stability mostly under control. That's with a much heavier load than the press CBT preceeding the regular closed beta.

    No you are mistaken, in 4E these are classes:

     

    Player's Handbook Classes
    Class Power Source Role
    Cleric Divine Leader
    Fighter Martial Defender
    Paladin Divine Defender
    Ranger Martial Striker
    Rogue Martial Striker
    Warlock Arcane Striker
    Warlord Martial Leader
    Wizard Arcane Controller
    Player's Handbook 2 Classes
    Class Power Source Role
    Avenger Divine Striker
    Barbarian Primal Striker
    Bard Arcane Leader
    Druid Primal Controller
    Invoker Divine Controller
    Shaman Primal Leader
    Sorcerer Arcane Striker
    Warden Primal Defender
    Player's Handbook 3 Classes
    Class Power Source Role
    Ardent Psionic Leader
    Battlemind Psionic Defender
    Monk Psionic Striker
    Psion Psionic Controller
    Runepriest Divine Leader
    Seeker Primal Controller

     

    These are builds:

    Players Handbook

    Battle Cleric
    Devoted Cleric
    Great Weapon Fighter
    Guardian Fighter
    Avenging Paladin
    Protecting Paladin
    Archer Ranger
    Two-Blade Ranger

    Brawny Rogue
    Trickster Rogue
    Deceptive Warlock
    Scourge Warlock
    Inspiring Warlord
    Tactical Warlord
    Control Wizard
    War Wizard

    Players Handbook 2

    Isolating Avenger
    Pursuing Avenger
    Rageblood Barbarian
    Thaneborn Barbarian
    Cunning Bard
    Valorous Bard
    Guardian Druid
    Predator Druid
    Preserving Invoker
    Wrathful Invoker
    Bear Shaman
    Panther Shaman
    Chaos Sorcerer
    Dragon Sorcerer
    Earth Warden
    Life Warden

    Players Handbook 3

    Enlightened Ardent
    Euphoric Ardent
    Resilient Battlemind
    Quick Battlemind
    Centered Breath Monk
    Stone Fist Monk
    Telekinetic Psion
    Telepathic Psion
    Defiant Runepriest
    Wrathful Runepriest
    Protecting Seeker
    Vengeful Seeker

     

    Take DDO for example if you choose fighter at the class selection screen you have premade paths you can choose or you can choose custom build. The premade paths choose "powers" for etc. If you choose custom you can make a great min/max toon or gimp yourself. Don't mistake these options as different classes they are not.

    Neverwinter takes premade builds and labels them "classes" but they are not. Great weapon fighter and guardian fighter are the same class but two different builds of the same class.  What Neverwinter should have done is let you choose "fighter " and the at the next screen ioffered you TWO build choices, ie great wepaon fighter or guardian fighter.

    It's like saying a paladin that chooses the DOS pre is a different class from the paladin that chooses the kotc pre and that would be false/wrong.  there is one class and that is paladin except on has a tank pre, one has a dps pre. 

     

    See what I mean one class, two build options. In reality there are 4 classes but two builds of one class.  Most likely when they add the ranger class they will offer either Archer Ranger or the Two-Blade Ranger builds. Hell with luck they could offer both at the same time but that is still just one class ;)

     

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  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    Experience speed isup X4 during beta
  • konseptualkonseptual Farmingville, NYPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by konseptual

    There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. 

    No you are mistaken in 4E these are classes:

    Sorry, I should have specified, there are 5 classes that they've said will be released with the launch of Neverwinter. I'm aware there are more D&D classes.

    I don't disagree they should let the player progress their characters like the PnP game, but they're clearly not interested in another DDO. I play DDO and enjoy it, but they're just aiming at a slightly different target audience.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    Experience speed is up times 4 during beta
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by konseptual
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by konseptual

    There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. 

    No you are mistaken in 4E these are classes:

    Sorry, I should have specified, there are 5 classes that they've said will be released with the launch of Neverwinter. I'm aware there are more D&D classes.

    I don't disagree they should let the player progress their characters like the PnP game, but they're clearly not interested in another DDO. I play DDO and enjoy it, but they're just aiming at a slightly different target audience.

    Read my post carefully it is pretty clear. guardian fighter and great weapon fighter ARE NOT two diffrent classes they are the same class. They are two different builds of the same class.

     

    Neverwinter doesn't offer the base classes it offers builds. There are five builds at launch and there are 4 classes, if ranger is added at launch there will be six builds and five classes.

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  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    All u wrote is true...game also needs more customization and more content...right now there is only 1 weapon asigned to each class and very few armor models...i also think they should give ur companions some character and introduce them with a story or quest as swtor did...right now u dont really care about them
  • konseptualkonseptual Farmingville, NYPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by konseptual
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by konseptual

    There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. 

    No you are mistaken in 4E these are classes:

    Sorry, I should have specified, there are 5 classes that they've said will be released with the launch of Neverwinter. I'm aware there are more D&D classes.

    I don't disagree they should let the player progress their characters like the PnP game, but they're clearly not interested in another DDO. I play DDO and enjoy it, but they're just aiming at a slightly different target audience.

    Read my post carefully it is pretty clear. 

    I'm sorry, but I did read your post. They've said the game is loosely based on the 4th edition of D&D. What they call a "class" is what they call a class. I'm not going to argue with them over the game they built. If I make a game, I can make 20 classes based on 5 archtypes and name or classify anything I want, because it's my game.

    They've licensed the Dungeons and Dragons brand and worked with WoTC for lore and trying to get the 'feel' of the landscape. Again, I don't disagree with you, but I've been following the development of the game for a long time and they've never lied about the character builds or anything. At least not yet. 

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by konseptual
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by konseptual
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by konseptual

    There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. 

    No you are mistaken in 4E these are classes:

    Sorry, I should have specified, there are 5 classes that they've said will be released with the launch of Neverwinter. I'm aware there are more D&D classes.

    I don't disagree they should let the player progress their characters like the PnP game, but they're clearly not interested in another DDO. I play DDO and enjoy it, but they're just aiming at a slightly different target audience.

    Read my post carefully it is pretty clear. 

    I'm sorry, but I did read your post. They've said the game is loosely based on the 4th edition of D&D. What they call a "class" is what they call a class. I'm not going to argue with them over the game they built. If I make a game, I can make 20 classes based on 5 archtypes and name or classify anything I want, because it's my game.

    They've licensed the Dungeons and Dragons brand and worked with WoTC for lore and trying to get the 'feel' of the landscape. Again, I don't disagree with you, but I've been following the development of the game for a long time and they've never lied about the character builds or anything. At least not yet. 

    And if they put a saddle on a cow and  call it an appaloosa that doesn't make it a horse.  They should be calling these what they are to avoid confusion.

    They are offereing builds of various classes and have said they will add more later on.

    .5+.5+1+1+1=4 not 5  I am not trying to be a stickler for terminolgy but lets call these by what they are not what Cryptic is trying to blow up our arses.

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  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    lol that guy on class and builds reminds me of politics, deny it enough and it becomes truth, well at least in their eyes. If I say the sky is green and you say it is blue, I just see a different blue then you. So it's green, geez can't you guys get that?

     

    lol funny stuff.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,719Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chaintm

    If I say the sky is green and you say it is blue, I just see a different blue then you. So it's green, geez can't you guys get that?

    lol funny stuff.

    Even funnier if you take that in some languages green and blue doesn't have a distinct word :) sorry for the off

    http://www.empiricalzeal.com/2012/06/05/the-crayola-fication-of-the-world-how-we-gave-colors-names-and-it-messed-with-our-brains-part-i/

  • DamianoVDamianoV Apple Valley, MNPosts: 12Member

    For my own part, I think the game is a pretty solid piece of work, with all the usual beta caveats of course.  Graphics, animations, and sound all seemed pretty solid, I had no serious issues with disconnects during my time in game, etc.

     

    First impression: being F2P, it will likely have an icon on my desktop, tho as it looks at present I don't think it will end up being a top candidate for my time.  Even during just the beta weekend, I found myself thinking "I've played this game before"... admittedly a very common reaction given that I've been playing computer RPGs off-line and on since the early 80s (the original Wizardry was my first, IIRC), and PnP RPGs for half a decade even before that.

    -=-

    It will be interesting seeing how the base of D+D 4E rules works as a core foundation for the game.  My PnP gaming groups both gave the 4E rules a trial run when they came out, and the general concensus was "interesting, but not quite filled out enough... feels more like a computer game design modified for pen-and-paper".  It will be intriguing to see if/how that plays out. 

     

    I must admit, I was somewhat disappointed to see that the healing surge concept was largely dropped for Neverwinter... it was one of the mechanics that added the most flair and opportunities for creativity in PnP, in my experience.  (I can certainly see how it could be difficult to implement for the needs of the MMO setting however.)

     

    IMO, the relative lack of class (or build) options is only problematic if your preferred selection or style is not available.  After all, it's not a design where you get to adjust roles on the fly, from what I've seen... you are what you select at the start, full stop.  Since there are not really separate paths through the content (yet?) for the different roles/classes/builds, I'm not sure that a wider selection would add much, assuming your personal favorite is available at all, of course.  (My own personal favorite flavor is an AD+D-style mage/thief multi-class... I've been out of luck for a long time, heh...)

    -=-

    I'll chime in on the class/build semantics thread, although since it seems entirely a question of perspective, I doubt there will ever be any resolution of the argument.  For example, Paladins and Rangers were sub-classes, or "builds" if you will, of the Fighter class in AD+D, if you recall.   Using WoW or the like as the basis of your perspective, the "classes" of Neverwinter might well be viewed as "builds" instead: from other viewpoints, more or less so.  It's a reasonable perspective, no doubt... but only one of many, hence the argument.

     

    For my part, I would simply say that the classes of Neverwinter are far more tightly constrained to specific activities, weapon/spell/ability selections, and advancement paths than those of many other games, and leave it at that.... and isn't that really the point?

     

    My two cents...

     

    Blogging semi-regularly at http://damianov.wordpress.com

  • dillettidilletti LjubljanaPosts: 73Member

    Nice graphics, player driven content.

    Has nothing to do with dnd/d20 character customization/growth system. Classes are weird, abilities are strange ... (if you're a DnD fan).

    Haven't really gone into lore but so far ddo seems way better for dnd rules fans.

  • CypeqCypeq TychyPosts: 66Member

    Yep they release Fighter as two seperate classes no DnD progression hurts me the most.

    Beside Guardian and Great Weapon fighter theres allso Battlerager and my favourite Tempest fighter so yeah they release half of DnD fighter class and just one "build" of other classes. Also the build thing in PnP is not mandatory you can always free pick talents and feats as you see fit.

    I love the tempest and I'm sure I won't see him at all in this game.

  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Arcade, NYPosts: 254Member Uncommon

    If they follow the FTP model over at STO, then you will probably have to pay for the new classes they add in the future along with different pets and companions. Not to mention skill and XP boosts.

     

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a lockbox yet? XD

  • LJonteLJonte Portland Metro, ORPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by LJonte
    Wait, no Paladins? No Rangers?  Well, damn.  I'm still looking forward to playing it, but seriously, damn.

    i remember them talking about a ranger type that will be added.. there were a couple others but don't remember off the top of my head.. also not sure when they plan on adding those new classes

    That's good to know, thanks!

    -Lisa Jont

  • LJonteLJonte Portland Metro, ORPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Originally posted by LJonte
    Wait, no Paladins? No Rangers?  Well, damn.  I'm still looking forward to playing it, but seriously, damn.
     

    yeah to be a good D&D game they need to have 10+ classes imo. and I feel the same way as stevon about wasting money on it. F2P is a great indicator also, they will be more driven to bring out usless stuff that looks cool but has nothing to do with game play which is a large injustice to D&D as a whole.

    10+? unless you mean multiclass early d&d didn't have many classes..  Original D&D had three classes: Fighting-Man, Magic-User, and Cleric with thief added shortly after

    Don't forget, "Elf" used to be a character class as well.  I can understand them not having a whole slew of classes, logistically it would be pretty difficult.  But still, like everybody else, I'm only unhappy when my personal pet classes are left out.

    -Lisa Jont

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    So far I am very satisfied with the game. Yes, I agree there should be more classes and I have no doubt they will add classes as time goes by my biggest concern is in character creation but that one falls under the NDA.

    I am looking at this game as something SWTOR should have been, its single player IP made online...and this game reminds me greatly of Neverwinter Nights 2 only with action combat.

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  • konseptualkonseptual Farmingville, NYPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by TheOctagon

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a lockbox yet? XD

    Sort of, lol. Under the /cstore command, there was an abbreviated list of things that would be for sale (wasn't active). Sure enough, there were lockboxes. The devs had been avoiding the questions about them, "That's something we can't reall talk about yet," so it was pretty obvious they would add them, but it's such a cash grab it makes me feel sad.

  • FascinezFascinez Pineville, LAPosts: 12Member
    People made it to level 30 in one weekend?!
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Fascinez
    People made it to level 30 in one weekend?!

    from some posts i saw over at the official forums they said XP was increased to allow people to get further along and test more areas over the weekend

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    So far I am very satisfied with the game. Yes, I agree there should be more classes and I have no doubt they will add classes as time goes by my biggest concern is in character creation but that one falls under the NDA.

    I am looking at this game as something SWTOR should have been, its single player IP made online...and this game reminds me greatly of Neverwinter Nights 2 only with action combat.

    There is no NDA as of now, it was lifted so people could stream the game during this first weekend CB.

     

    Originally posted by Fascinez
    People made it to level 30 in one weekend?!

    You could easily level to 30 under 10 hrs.  GM efreet told us XP was increased for the beta but difficulty was not.

     

    Originally posted by konseptual
    Originally posted by TheOctagon

    Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a lockbox yet? XD

    Sort of, lol. Under the /cstore command, there was an abbreviated list of things that would be for sale (wasn't active). Sure enough, there were lockboxes. The devs had been avoiding the questions about them, "That's something we can't reall talk about yet," so it was pretty obvious they would add them, but it's such a cash grab it makes me feel sad.

    Just a correction there was no lockboxes in /cstore but there was keys and key rings for the lockboxes.

     

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  • ShaudiusShaudius West Lafayette, INPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by julienkage
    I think Pathfinder online will crush this game utterly.  There will be far more things to do such as actually having PvP, which Neverwinter does NOT have, you can create your own little "kingdom" and the rules feel far more the D&D most people know as opposed to the 4th ed rules that most peopel did not like and jumped ship to Pathfinder over. Hopefully the Pathfinder online graphics will improve though as they looked pretty terrible.

    The Pathfinder rules set might, but who knows what the rules will look like in the MMO, since, you know, its not coming out almost 2 years at the earliest. 

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by LJonte
    Wait, no Paladins? No Rangers?  Well, damn.  I'm still looking forward to playing it, but seriously, damn.

    i remember them talking about a ranger type that will be added.. there were a couple others but don't remember off the top of my head.. also not sure when they plan on adding those new classes

    They will add them to the cash shop, just like the STO ships.  They will probably be $25.00 unlocks and may or may not be account wide.  You will be amazed how quickly items are added to the cash shop and how slowly if ever, any content is added directly to the game itself.

    image
  • mugobluemugoblue Ofallon, MOPosts: 3Member

    Let's not be fooled, classes here are going to be handled similarly to heroes in Marvel Heroes.  Where MH is selling the heroes themselves, Crypitc will be selling the slots you need to create new characters.  Say that class you really wanted to play is released, you have to choose: delete one of your two characters to free a slot or buy an extra one.  Certainly you can grind Diamonds to purchase that slot but Cryptic will be happy to let you have it right away for $$, whatever it costs in the store.

    So seeing it this way, I believe they view specialized characters as a way to help monetize this game.  Whether good or bad you decide, that's just my opinion.

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