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Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
Originally posted by konseptual There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. They've hinted very strongly at an "Archer" class, without calling it a Ranger. And people have found the Warlock class mixed in with the patch files, including the spell names. They could just as easily be available at launch, but be purchasable. I played all weekend and enjoyed it. Leveled a cleric up to 30. The idea of the pre-made builds is my one big hesitation. I wouldn't even play Champions Online for free, for the pre-made characters were, well, pre-made. They're getting inindated with posts about class customization and "cookie cutter' builds and that sort of thing on the beta and regular forums. We'll see how they address this. I think that part of the game design was their intention from the beginning, so I hold little hope. Suzie, your streaming video with Zeke was the first video I watched. A lot of fun, particularly the way you ran ahead a couple times to kill everything. I didn't crash once this entire weekend and it seems like that have the stability mostly under control. That's with a much heavier load than the press CBT preceeding the regular closed beta.
No you are mistaken, in 4E these are classes:
These are builds:
Players HandbookBattle ClericDevoted ClericGreat Weapon FighterGuardian FighterAvenging PaladinProtecting PaladinArcher RangerTwo-Blade RangerBrawny RogueTrickster RogueDeceptive WarlockScourge WarlockInspiring WarlordTactical WarlordControl Wizard War WizardPlayers Handbook 2Isolating AvengerPursuing AvengerRageblood BarbarianThaneborn BarbarianCunning BardValorous BardGuardian DruidPredator DruidPreserving InvokerWrathful InvokerBear ShamanPanther ShamanChaos SorcererDragon SorcererEarth WardenLife WardenPlayers Handbook 3Enlightened ArdentEuphoric ArdentResilient BattlemindQuick BattlemindCentered Breath MonkStone Fist MonkTelekinetic PsionTelepathic PsionDefiant RunepriestWrathful RunepriestProtecting SeekerVengeful Seeker
Take DDO for example if you choose fighter at the class selection screen you have premade paths you can choose or you can choose custom build. The premade paths choose "powers" for etc. If you choose custom you can make a great min/max toon or gimp yourself. Don't mistake these options as different classes they are not.
Neverwinter takes premade builds and labels them "classes" but they are not. Great weapon fighter and guardian fighter are the same class but two different builds of the same class. What Neverwinter should have done is let you choose "fighter " and the at the next screen ioffered you TWO build choices, ie great wepaon fighter or guardian fighter.
It's like saying a paladin that chooses the DOS pre is a different class from the paladin that chooses the kotc pre and that would be false/wrong. there is one class and that is paladin except on has a tank pre, one has a dps pre.
See what I mean one class, two build options. In reality there are 4 classes but two builds of one class. Most likely when they add the ranger class they will offer either Archer Ranger or the Two-Blade Ranger builds. Hell with luck they could offer both at the same time but that is still just one class
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
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Originally posted by Asm0deus Originally posted by konseptual There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard.
No you are mistaken in 4E these are classes:
Sorry, I should have specified, there are 5 classes that they've said will be released with the launch of Neverwinter. I'm aware there are more D&D classes.
I don't disagree they should let the player progress their characters like the PnP game, but they're clearly not interested in another DDO. I play DDO and enjoy it, but they're just aiming at a slightly different target audience.
Originally posted by konseptual Originally posted by Asm0deus Originally posted by konseptual There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard.
Read my post carefully it is pretty clear. guardian fighter and great weapon fighter ARE NOT two diffrent classes they are the same class. They are two different builds of the same class.
Neverwinter doesn't offer the base classes it offers builds. There are five builds at launch and there are 4 classes, if ranger is added at launch there will be six builds and five classes.
Originally posted by Asm0deus Originally posted by konseptual Originally posted by Asm0deus Originally posted by konseptual There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard.
Read my post carefully it is pretty clear.
I'm sorry, but I did read your post. They've said the game is loosely based on the 4th edition of D&D. What they call a "class" is what they call a class. I'm not going to argue with them over the game they built. If I make a game, I can make 20 classes based on 5 archtypes and name or classify anything I want, because it's my game.
They've licensed the Dungeons and Dragons brand and worked with WoTC for lore and trying to get the 'feel' of the landscape. Again, I don't disagree with you, but I've been following the development of the game for a long time and they've never lied about the character builds or anything. At least not yet.
Originally posted by konseptual Originally posted by Asm0deus Originally posted by konseptual Originally posted by Asm0deus Originally posted by konseptual There are actually five classes. Guadian fighter, Great Weapon Fighter, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard.
And if they put a saddle on a cow and call it an appaloosa that doesn't make it a horse. They should be calling these what they are to avoid confusion.
They are offereing builds of various classes and have said they will add more later on.
.5+.5+1+1+1=4 not 5 I am not trying to be a stickler for terminolgy but lets call these by what they are not what Cryptic is trying to blow up our arses.
lol that guy on class and builds reminds me of politics, deny it enough and it becomes truth, well at least in their eyes. If I say the sky is green and you say it is blue, I just see a different blue then you. So it's green, geez can't you guys get that?
lol funny stuff.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Originally posted by chaintm If I say the sky is green and you say it is blue, I just see a different blue then you. So it's green, geez can't you guys get that? lol funny stuff.
Even funnier if you take that in some languages green and blue doesn't have a distinct word sorry for the off
For my own part, I think the game is a pretty solid piece of work, with all the usual beta caveats of course. Graphics, animations, and sound all seemed pretty solid, I had no serious issues with disconnects during my time in game, etc.
First impression: being F2P, it will likely have an icon on my desktop, tho as it looks at present I don't think it will end up being a top candidate for my time. Even during just the beta weekend, I found myself thinking "I've played this game before"... admittedly a very common reaction given that I've been playing computer RPGs off-line and on since the early 80s (the original Wizardry was my first, IIRC), and PnP RPGs for half a decade even before that.
It will be interesting seeing how the base of D+D 4E rules works as a core foundation for the game. My PnP gaming groups both gave the 4E rules a trial run when they came out, and the general concensus was "interesting, but not quite filled out enough... feels more like a computer game design modified for pen-and-paper". It will be intriguing to see if/how that plays out.
I must admit, I was somewhat disappointed to see that the healing surge concept was largely dropped for Neverwinter... it was one of the mechanics that added the most flair and opportunities for creativity in PnP, in my experience. (I can certainly see how it could be difficult to implement for the needs of the MMO setting however.)
IMO, the relative lack of class (or build) options is only problematic if your preferred selection or style is not available. After all, it's not a design where you get to adjust roles on the fly, from what I've seen... you are what you select at the start, full stop. Since there are not really separate paths through the content (yet?) for the different roles/classes/builds, I'm not sure that a wider selection would add much, assuming your personal favorite is available at all, of course. (My own personal favorite flavor is an AD+D-style mage/thief multi-class... I've been out of luck for a long time, heh...)
I'll chime in on the class/build semantics thread, although since it seems entirely a question of perspective, I doubt there will ever be any resolution of the argument. For example, Paladins and Rangers were sub-classes, or "builds" if you will, of the Fighter class in AD+D, if you recall. Using WoW or the like as the basis of your perspective, the "classes" of Neverwinter might well be viewed as "builds" instead: from other viewpoints, more or less so. It's a reasonable perspective, no doubt... but only one of many, hence the argument.
For my part, I would simply say that the classes of Neverwinter are far more tightly constrained to specific activities, weapon/spell/ability selections, and advancement paths than those of many other games, and leave it at that.... and isn't that really the point?
My two cents...
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Nice graphics, player driven content.
Has nothing to do with dnd/d20 character customization/growth system. Classes are weird, abilities are strange ... (if you're a DnD fan).
Haven't really gone into lore but so far ddo seems way better for dnd rules fans.
Yep they release Fighter as two seperate classes no DnD progression hurts me the most.
Beside Guardian and Great Weapon fighter theres allso Battlerager and my favourite Tempest fighter so yeah they release half of DnD fighter class and just one "build" of other classes. Also the build thing in PnP is not mandatory you can always free pick talents and feats as you see fit.
I love the tempest and I'm sure I won't see him at all in this game.
If they follow the FTP model over at STO, then you will probably have to pay for the new classes they add in the future along with different pets and companions. Not to mention skill and XP boosts.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a lockbox yet? XD
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by LJonte Wait, no Paladins? No Rangers? Well, damn. I'm still looking forward to playing it, but seriously, damn.
i remember them talking about a ranger type that will be added.. there were a couple others but don't remember off the top of my head.. also not sure when they plan on adding those new classes
That's good to know, thanks!
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by Hellidol Originally posted by LJonte Wait, no Paladins? No Rangers? Well, damn. I'm still looking forward to playing it, but seriously, damn.
yeah to be a good D&D game they need to have 10+ classes imo. and I feel the same way as stevon about wasting money on it. F2P is a great indicator also, they will be more driven to bring out usless stuff that looks cool but has nothing to do with game play which is a large injustice to D&D as a whole.
10+? unless you mean multiclass early d&d didn't have many classes.. Original D&D had three classes: Fighting-Man, Magic-User, and Cleric with thief added shortly after
Don't forget, "Elf" used to be a character class as well. I can understand them not having a whole slew of classes, logistically it would be pretty difficult. But still, like everybody else, I'm only unhappy when my personal pet classes are left out.
So far I am very satisfied with the game. Yes, I agree there should be more classes and I have no doubt they will add classes as time goes by my biggest concern is in character creation but that one falls under the NDA.
I am looking at this game as something SWTOR should have been, its single player IP made online...and this game reminds me greatly of Neverwinter Nights 2 only with action combat.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by TheOctagon Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a lockbox yet? XD
Sort of, lol. Under the /cstore command, there was an abbreviated list of things that would be for sale (wasn't active). Sure enough, there were lockboxes. The devs had been avoiding the questions about them, "That's something we can't reall talk about yet," so it was pretty obvious they would add them, but it's such a cash grab it makes me feel sad.
Originally posted by Fascinez People made it to level 30 in one weekend?!
from some posts i saw over at the official forums they said XP was increased to allow people to get further along and test more areas over the weekend
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by jtcgs So far I am very satisfied with the game. Yes, I agree there should be more classes and I have no doubt they will add classes as time goes by my biggest concern is in character creation but that one falls under the NDA. I am looking at this game as something SWTOR should have been, its single player IP made online...and this game reminds me greatly of Neverwinter Nights 2 only with action combat.
There is no NDA as of now, it was lifted so people could stream the game during this first weekend CB.
You could easily level to 30 under 10 hrs. GM efreet told us XP was increased for the beta but difficulty was not.
Originally posted by konseptual Originally posted by TheOctagon Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a lockbox yet? XD
Just a correction there was no lockboxes in /cstore but there was keys and key rings for the lockboxes.
Originally posted by julienkage I think Pathfinder online will crush this game utterly. There will be far more things to do such as actually having PvP, which Neverwinter does NOT have, you can create your own little "kingdom" and the rules feel far more the D&D most people know as opposed to the 4th ed rules that most peopel did not like and jumped ship to Pathfinder over. Hopefully the Pathfinder online graphics will improve though as they looked pretty terrible.
The Pathfinder rules set might, but who knows what the rules will look like in the MMO, since, you know, its not coming out almost 2 years at the earliest.
They will add them to the cash shop, just like the STO ships. They will probably be $25.00 unlocks and may or may not be account wide. You will be amazed how quickly items are added to the cash shop and how slowly if ever, any content is added directly to the game itself.
Let's not be fooled, classes here are going to be handled similarly to heroes in Marvel Heroes. Where MH is selling the heroes themselves, Crypitc will be selling the slots you need to create new characters. Say that class you really wanted to play is released, you have to choose: delete one of your two characters to free a slot or buy an extra one. Certainly you can grind Diamonds to purchase that slot but Cryptic will be happy to let you have it right away for $$, whatever it costs in the store.
So seeing it this way, I believe they view specialized characters as a way to help monetize this game. Whether good or bad you decide, that's just my opinion.