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Must See about ESO and mmorpgs in general.
Zefire
Member Posts: 676
Im glad i ve found a video about why mmos are failing all the time and there is no need to write about it.
With ESO coming up this year a lot of you are over hyped.
In my many posts i talk about how bad i hate simplified games and eso is no exception to this.
Watch this video and learn how eso can succeed or fail misserable
Comments
For those didn't notice part 2 is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_163427&feature=iv&src_vid=dMABij_YqVU&v=pp_kdFjm-EU
I actually bother to listen thourgh all it.
I'm sick of listening to people telling people what they should play. If casual want to play mmorpg let them play.
Oh casual gamer shouldn't be allowed, if they can't play for 10 hours a day they should go play other genre.
Oh esport shouldn't be allowed in mmorpg, go play LOL. Only wolrd pvp should be alowed.
oh gamer shouldn't play themepark, since they are not roll playing in a virtual world like sandbox.
Oh dungeon shouldn't be instanced because that destroy immersion.
Oh solo gamers shouldn't play mmorpg because the first world of MMORPG stand for massive.
Maybe there just isn't enough nerdy player in the world, that the mmorpg developer actaully have to cater to other genre.
I like to solo, and if you can find me a single player game that the npc AI function like real player and have a real life economy, and have update every few month, and I can do "instanced dungeon with people", and bug and hacks are actually fixed on the prompt, and I can actually pvp once in a while, I'll go play that. Else I felt like spending most of my time solo, and you can **** it.
And you know what? just because I like to solo 80% of the time, dont' mean I like to solo 100% of the time.
If you want forced grouping you should try other genre like league of legend, you shouldn't play mmorpg. You know what? those fps game is good for grouping too, you are always grouped. Please stop playing mmorpg and you won't have that problem.
Hi fellow mmorpgers:
I've been following the site for a long time but never got to post until I watched the OP's video. Just wanted to show my support and associate myself with all the remarks made by Larzul, the video's commentator.
Thanks very much for all the thought put into your presentation, it exactly mirrors my feelings and the ones of my roleplaying mates - we couldn't have said it better. Again, thanks Larzul!
As a UO, AC and SWG veteran and avid pen&paper roleplayer, it's very sad how the Masive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME (allow me to emphasize those last 3 words) genre has degenerated in the last 10 years to the linear, compartmentalized, hand-holding, epic welfare arcade dumbfest we have nowadays.
It's especially sad to see such in a well loved franchise as TES, a paradigm of free-form progression and high degree world interaction that has captured the imagination of the roleplaying scene since the days of Arena.
It is sad, as I say, and it is ironic how this industry in its urge to commercialize the genre to a wide public, consequently having to cater to the lowest common denominator playerbase (that is the ones that should have never played mmoRPGs in the first place), has basically ruined the genre for good.
It was never so true that "you cannot chew more than you can eat". This genre is not going out of the mud (both financially and from an artistic and technical point of view) till the industry goes back to its roots and focus on its original niche public. A differentiation of concepts between "Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME" and "Cooperative or Solo Online Arcade-with-role-playing-alike-stats Casual Game" would be welcome too.
Edit: typos
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
^ As much as I sympathize you for not having a game to play. Or whatever you think the mmorpg genre should be headed, that's fine, I dont' care. If you think mmorpg should be only grouped that's fine too.
But when people start saying "XXX type of people shouldn't play mmorpg, they should be playing other genre". I just say **** it. Your not someone's mama, please stop telling people what to play and what not to play.
The guy is way off base.
Example: All games are going to be compared to WoW no matter what, period, thats the way it is.
No, people like HIM does that because they are small minded gits. I only compare games that are trying to be LIKE WoW to WoW...if a game is sandbox, I dont compare them, if a game is a royal PoS single player game with online capabilities like SWTOR...I dont compare it to WoW.
A lot of his opinions are stuck in the box and lack critical thinking.
Another PERFECT example of his lack of critical thinking. In games today he says, you are not connecting to the character because you are not in direct control of the story, you are watching it and are not really having fun, you think you are having fun.
This is complete BS. I HATE, let me make sure you understand this, I H A T E SWTOR, it is a crap MMO in my eyes let I will tell you this, I had more fun playing the Commando storyline than I had playing any story in any MMO and that includes games I liked enough to play for 6 god damn years like Asherons Call. I FELT like I was in the army, I could be THE soldier or I could be a smart mouth insubordinate. And it was FUN. The class was fun, the combat was fun. The game itself blew. I wasnt taken out of the world looking in as he says, I was connected to my character as much as I was in any other game.
More proof this guy has his head up his backside. Oh if you cant play for hours on end and you want to just pick up and go, well MMOs are not for you.
That is closed minded BULLDUNG. Asherons Call was a SANDBOX game, far more so than Everquest and you could just log in and GO...in fact, by his own standards, MMOs are not for him...games like NWN2 that had online capabilities where you can sit and wait for others to "join" in for long periods of time...cause I sure as hell wasnt sitting and waiting in Meridian 59, the Realm or Ultima Online...it was EverCrap that introduced the sit and wait for a group to go sit and wait at a spawn for hours bullcrap.
Anyway, if TESO is made the way this guy wants it, it would be even worse than the piss poor choices they are making now with its closed factions, restricted PvP and restricted faction zones.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
EXCEPT... the faction lock, the restricted pvp and faction zones (your redundancy is killing me here) are GOOD CHOICES for the game. You may not realize it, but THEY ARE.
This guy is the typical acritical nostalgic preacher who just enjoys stating cliché after cliché:
"The average gamer", "The average moron": basically trying to say that he, by some sort of deserved mystical status, is above the average gamer and so he's able to understand and appreciate the true meaning of gaming and he's here to reveal that arcane wisdom to us.
"You think you are having fun". O please sensei tell me why I'm not having fun even when I think am having it, I have been misled! Tell me!
"every game will be compared to WoW" No, YOU compare every game to WoW.
This type of nostalgic and resented game/genre "reviewer" is part of the problem, not the solution.
Don Quixote's Delusions
i thought this was about TESO.
Terrible video, has nothing to do with TESO and has no value in it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but this guy has a freaking terrible one, he can't even communicate properly. Talking about what is and what's not.
This guy is so full of himself. Needs to take off the rose spectacles.
3/10
<Welcome to my world>
i didnt watch video but bahaha this post is epic right hurr
Wow!
Talk about egocentric...
The commentator has e'leet'ist ganking jerk written all over him.
Thankfully, I guarantee he will be on a different part of the megaserver to me. I can't imagine anyone with such a personality profile giving the same answers to the server shard questions as me - or anyone I would give the time of day to either...
Haha..couldn't have said it better myself.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Ha! I somehow expected this would be a Larzul video ! Big fan of his channel.
I love this guys videos, check out what he says about GW2, this is so spot on I subbed his channel months ago.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
Larzul talking about GW2 as a failure...?? Really ? The most successful MMORPG since WOW
So according to the OP all these recent mmorpg's are failing eh... yet all of these companies recently posted financial reports that state the opposite. They have facts, the OP and video guy have opinions....
hm....
cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks
~ WC
only in your mind... most hyped, probably, that´s about it
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
Not in his mind.
From business and financial point of view GW2 is a huge success. You want to know what failure is? TSW and AOC.... you should know better. Didn't majority of devs lost their job at TSW and Joel made a long post about it? confessing how he doesn't want more close friends to depart? Now they are restructing some more which is effecting AOC 's development.
I have no love for GW2's community around here but let us cut the bull s*** shall we? someone has to be really biased and full of hate to call GW2 a failure.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Agree, it is very succesful by any standard.
The real question to me is why do people who stop doing something feel a compulsion to justify their decission to quit by bashing what they used to do? I suspect it has something to do with insecurity: you don't have time to do everything so what you choose to do must be better than what you replaced.
People will go to incredible lengths in their attempts to justify the validity of their choice. The easiest thing to do is to declare the old thing "bad." You don't have to go much further than most people's attitudes toward their "ex" for a real life comparison.
I no longer play Rift simply because I now play other things. Rift, however, is a very good MMO. It was when I played it and it still is without me.
I have no doubt that I will play ESO. Maybe for a short while or maybe for a long time...hard to predict that. But the amount of time I will spend in it will have a lot more to do with my personal interests and situation than its inherent goodness or lack thereof. I leave MMOs because another new one catches my eye....that's all there is to it.
Re: the OP's linked video...
For someone who readily admits we know very little about ESO yet, he sure is long-winded about why it may not live up to his MMO expectations.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I will be playing TESO there is no question about that, however that video made no sense... well maybe a little, but one thing that I personally think (my opinion) is that the timimg was just right when WoW was released, it catered to both the casuals and hardcores, it was perfect and AAA mmo polished and ready to go and sadly that moment will never come again in the MMO genre (still my opinion not fact).
He is also off on success and failures, I mean realistically if you look at it there are probably 2-5 million MMO players in NA, you see this with the sales of each MMO being released and most of these games have gotten a chunk of that playerbase may it be for a short time or lonmg time, they still have gotten them to pay for the product in my opinion they made bank and hopefully they will use it to put out better and better titles.
I do not like to bash any game I hope they strive for higher quality and stick around because every game has a core player base and we cannot know them for playing it, just because one does not liek it simply does not mean the other is wrong for liking it.
This my game is better than yours really needs to stop, if you do not like something post your thoughts on it and if they do not get answered then move on you do not have to stay there to just keep bashing your point.
my 2 cents
+1
I always find it ironic when players who hate a game and aren't playing it tells everyone else that they have no business in the genre. It's always some control freak with no life who misses the good old days of forced grouping . They can't stand the fact that now players have a choice of soloing and don't have to deal with the tyranical elitists that use to ruin MMOs for so many people. I usually tell self important morons like that to get bent.. Until you pay for my entertainment I will continue to play whatever game I please.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Yes but just because you pay you have no right to bend games at your will ruining the experience that mmo gamers are expecting - that is the point of the rant - companies that completely change how the game should be to catter more audience and where do they get their other players from? From other genres. How? By inserting mechanics and play styles that have nothing to do with how an mmo should be. And that includes "risk/reward" since most non-mmo players are used to "shoot-die-respawn-getstars-upgradeweapon-nevertheless".
You have to imagine this in a different point of view - imagine that you're a chess player - now imagine that the pawns now respawn everytime they get killed, the king can now shoot everything in his line of sight regardless of distance, and horses now have this special hability called "trample" and everything inside their "L" movement dies. Completely destroys the game. It DESTROYS THE GAME for chess players... I dont care if 10 million more ppl would start to play chess after those changes but as a chess player I would be pissed and prolly stop playing chess.
That is what this conversation is about - not about what you like or not, but about how a game that fits a genre can lose its identity by including other genres mechanics into it virtually reducing its value and... well evolving or devolving into something that cant be called an MMORPG anymore.
Hell I think they should drop the RP there since noone does it anymore - you used to feel your character, and identify with it and you grew attached to it - it used to be... sord of an extension, a virtual extension of yourself - your face, or you in that world. Now... its just not like that anymore, so... I suggest ppl just change the acronym to MMOG - since games like that are only games, not Role-Playing Games.
And btw... whats that about "forced grouping"? In WoW or any other major mmo you have forced grouping - want to go on a boring raid to kill arthas or whatever - get 9 or 24 more players if you want to see that part of the content. Period. I dont see you complaining about it tho. (I'm an ex DAoC player and I hate the concept of rading - I dont raid in WoW and I hate the concept of repeating the same crap over and over again against something I already know the "tactics" but thats just me) - and still I like the concept of grouping in PvE to do things that you simply CANT DO ALONE - this is an MMO - want to be that special snowflake? Theres lots of single player games out there - and even those are dumb down - Skyrim is a joke compared to Oblivion or Morrowind.
I believe mmos should be damn hard, there has to be a special reward for those who push the extra mile. And talking like this I may sound hardcore, but I'm not - I'm usually the one looking at those guys who have those rewards going "woooow" and to be honest, if I can get it with no effort whatsoever, then... its pointless. As a casual player I rather not have something because I know its too hard or too demanding for me, than to know that I can get it while grabbing a coke from the fridge and playing 2 hours a day - it loses its purpose.
The true mmo genre is dead - now all we have are these... mashups of games into one that turns into a cluster fuck of "nothing" because everyone wants everything their way, whining and bitching on forums, wanting stuff to be easier, faster, taking less effort and with that self-entitlement crap of "if I pay I deserve" - no you dont.
An mmo should be done like mmos used to be done and if you like it, you play it. If you don't, you dont play it. Easy. I dont need my game to have 10 million players - companies do. So... they'll just butcher any mmo to appease your kind instead of trying to deliver a good game to a real mmo player fanbase. Then of course everything turns to shit because what you want from an mmo is NOTHING, not even CLOSE to what an mmo gamer wants.
Larzul is right - getting gimmicks and mechanics of other games into an mmo to try and get more and more people will turn the game to shit because actually the game is... nothing. Its not an mmo, nor an fps nor an rts, not anything really... just a cluster fuck of 10 million ignorants shaping a game to their ignorant mind and while doing it, ruining the game for people that actually like mmos how they really are.