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Sandbox Yeah, But With Great Patience

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  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Is it me or do most people have their OWN version of 'a sandbox MMO'? People considered SWG sandbox, I can't say I did."Being able to do what you want" is so generic it's not even funny.I can do what I want in any MMO, I just won't always succeed at it. If I wanna level naked in WoW I can, is it now a sandbox?

    The train of thought goes something like this:

    I like sandbox games(whatever that is supposed to be).
    I like AoW.
    Therefore AoW is a sandbox.


    Yeah, reasoning isn't a strong suit of average forum poster...

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

     

    As a long time eve player, and still a fan, I call B.S. of the first degree on that one.


     

    Fair enough, however EVE still will be having no progression.

     

    I like this theory you have where you make a proclomation, devoid of factual foundation, and it magically becomes truth.

    If I made a miner in eve, and someone else had a miner with 9 months head start on me, I could not in any way shape or form, compete with the ore production capabilities of the miner with the head start. Why? Because he has progressed as a miner. He has aquired better skills to fit better modules and fly better ships, he has a larger isk pool to purchase better ships and upgrades, his lasers will be better, his drones will be better, in fact he may have the training to use drones capable of fighting off the npc pirates that show up to harass him, I will not have that ability I have not progressed as far as him down that line.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by GrayKodiakI like this theory you have where you make a proclomation, devoid of factual foundation, and it magically becomes truth.

    Throwing random terms("progression") around won't make you right nor make you a point either.


    You do not progress in EVE. Battleships aren't higher level ships, they are no better than frigates because there is no progression line.


    AoW progression line is clear - pick school, max it and progress through more rewarding content and gear. Very clear, distinct start and target.

    Nothing like that exists in EVE, in EVE there are only options. You can do this or that but none is better or step up from the other, nothing is required.


    In AoW you MUST get your lvls otherwise you won't get anywhere, it is a game's goal to get higher lvl internals. The game is designed around "end game", characters progressed to max.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Fuuny thing is that SnailGames don't promote Age Of Wushu/Wulin as their main flagship sandbox MMO that is coming later this year.

    Age Of Wushu is  great game but the best is yet to come from SnailGames.

    June 5, 2012 US Pacific Time (June 6, 2012 China Time) - Snail Game’s flagship product Age of Wushu 

    They refere to it as their flagship on their own site

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is what the world thinks of AoW.

    Chinese MMO ‘Age of Wushu’ heads West this Spring, and brings the Chinese gaming industry with it

    Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/crouching-tiger-hidden-grind-chinese-mmo-age-of-wushu-debuts-in-the-west-this-spring/#ixzz2KVaVLaQL

     

    Alright, now that you’re all caught up on what Age of Wushu is, we ought to explain why you should care. First, Age of Wushu is reportedly a quality MMO and it has already been compared to EVE Online, but with hand-to-hand fighting replacing laser-toting spacecraft. Second, we’re not that far from seeing an American release of Age of Wushu...

     

    If it can keep the Chinese base happy (20,000,000 players) and find success elsewhere, there’s no reason to think it won’t soon be one of the biggest games in the world. 

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

     

     

     

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

     

    I like this theory you have where you make a proclomation, devoid of factual foundation, and it magically becomes truth.


     

    Throwing random terms("progression") around won't make you right nor make you a point either.

    I like how you completely ignored my example, didn't bother to make one of your own, and still managed to pretend you are making a point.

    Carry on good sir, carry on, the last word is yours take it.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    I like how you completely ignored my example, didn't bother to make one of your own, and still managed to pretend you are making a point.Carry on good sir, carry on, the last word is yours take it.

    I did not ignore it, I put it into correct context:


    Originally posted by Gdemami

    You do not progress in EVE. Battleships aren't higher level ships, they are no better than frigates because there is no progression line.

  • SybnalSybnal nunavit, NWPosts: 261Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    I like how you completely ignored my example, didn't bother to make one of your own, and still managed to pretend you are making a point.

     

    Carry on good sir, carry on, the last word is yours take it.


     

    I did not ignore it, I put it into correct context:

     


    Originally posted by Gdemami

    You do not progress in EVE. Battleships aren't higher level ships, they are no better than frigates because there is no progression line.


     

    Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong here, please.  But, don't you have to level your skills do be able to pilot a Battleship in Eve? Or be able to spec it out the way you like it?  Don't you also have to make the money to buy all of it first?  It's been a long time since I've played it, but I don't remember being able to get a huge war ship strait out of the noob dock.

    I'm not trying to hop into the argument, I think EvE and AoW share similarities but don't desrve to be compared to each other.  Personally I think AoW is an asiangrinder, themebox, sandpark, with a heavy PvP focus and the ability to walk on water.  So it's kind of like an Asian Jesus that will Leisure Kick your argument in the sternum for being so wrong.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Sybnal

    Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong here, please.  But, don't you have to level your skills do be able to pilot a Battleship in Eve?

    The difference is, progression is not a design goal. You do not HAVE to fly a Battleship, however in AoW you MUST max your skills as it opens up content and keep you competitive.

  • SybnalSybnal nunavit, NWPosts: 261Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Sybnal

    Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong here, please.  But, don't you have to level your skills do be able to pilot a Battleship in Eve?


     

    The difference is, progression is not a design goal. You do not HAVE to fly a Battleship, however in AoW you MUST max your skills as it opens up content and keep you competitive.

    Don't have to lvl anything in AoW for that matter. 

    You can just sit in town and be a blacksmithing buyer/seller and a real sneaky kidnapper if you want.  You could do nothing but farm yams all day if that's your thing.

    Also, If 2 players in EvE face off against each other in the exact same ship, one his first day in EvE one with the mods and skills to improve his ship. Won't the improved one win?  That sounds like havning to progress a little to be competative to me.  

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    I like how you completely ignored my example, didn't bother to make one of your own, and still managed to pretend you are making a point.

     

    Carry on good sir, carry on, the last word is yours take it.


     

    I did not ignore it, I put it into correct context:

     


    Originally posted by Gdemami

    You do not progress in EVE. Battleships aren't higher level ships, they are no better than frigates because there is no progression line.


     

    Did my example use battleships at all? I was talking about mining, in which there is a clear cut case of progression, but if you want to talk about frigates lets load out two with day one skills and isk and year two skills and isk. the bloody drones on the year two frigate will probably finish off the day one ship without the player even having to fire his winmitar gun.

     

     If there wasnt progession in Eve people would just not bother queing skills, but there is, it is not linear progression like wow where level 5 is better than level 1 by a factor of 5 but it is there and to ignore it is to confuse facts with wishfull thinking or blatant PR.

     

    How did Eve get brought up yet again in an Age of Wushu Game? They are obviously not the same game, eve has you in a spaceship with auto everything skills, age of wushu is on the ground and has wirefu, when you wirefu spaceship jump with autoattacks and spacestations...we can start comparing them.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Sybnal

    Don't have to lvl anything in AoW for that matter. 

    Sure, you can just create char, never move an inch and just chat. Are you sure that is a relevant point you are making?



    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    Did my example use battleships at all?

    /sigh


    Originally posted by Gdemami
    I did not ignore it, I put it into correct context
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Is it me or do most people have their OWN version of 'a sandbox MMO'? People considered SWG sandbox, I can't say I did.

     

    "Being able to do what you want" is so generic it's not even funny.

    I can do what I want in any MMO, I just won't always succeed at it. If I wanna level naked in WoW I can, is it now a sandbox?


     

    The train of thought goes something like this:

    I like sandbox games(whatever that is supposed to be).
    I like AoW.
    Therefore AoW is a sandbox.


    Yeah, reasoning isn't a strong suit of average forum poster...

    I have never really seen anyone put up a good argument of a concrete definition of a sandbox MMO.. it's one of those things that has so many forms or interpretations the meaning is lost. So really it's all personal opinion.. For me a sandbox MMO is one that runs mainly on player created content.. player created cities, factions, political systems, player created economy, player ran quests. Basically the devs create a world and allow the players to shape it how they will. To me that's a sandbox but obviously others may not agree or not feel you need those things to be considered a sandbox MMO.. i tried AoW and if they fix up the interface and translation i may give it another go but overall i really wouldn't consider it a sandbox MMO by what i view a sandbox MMO to be

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,060Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Fuuny thing is that SnailGames don't promote Age Of Wushu/Wulin as their main flagship sandbox MMO that is coming later this year.

    Age Of Wushu is  great game but the best is yet to come from SnailGames.

    June 5, 2012 US Pacific Time (June 6, 2012 China Time) - Snail Game’s flagship product Age of Wushu 

    They refere to it as their flagship on their own site

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is what the world thinks of AoW.

    Chinese MMO ‘Age of Wushu’ heads West this Spring, and brings the Chinese gaming industry with it

    Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/crouching-tiger-hidden-grind-chinese-mmo-age-of-wushu-debuts-in-the-west-this-spring/#ixzz2KVaVLaQL

     

    Alright, now that you’re all caught up on what Age of Wushu is, we ought to explain why you should care. First, Age of Wushu is reportedly a quality MMO and it has already been compared to EVE Online, but with hand-to-hand fighting replacing laser-toting spacecraft. Second, we’re not that far from seeing an American release of Age of Wushu...

     

    If it can keep the Chinese base happy (20,000,000 players) and find success elsewhere, there’s no reason to think it won’t soon be one of the biggest games in the world. 

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

     

     

     

    This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

    Scroll down to my post.image

    I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

    Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

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  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    What some people call a sandbox, I call lazy design.  Am I calling all "sandbox" games lazy design?  No.  However, when players are the only ones driving content becuase the dev team couldn't come up with an antagonist worth a darn and a matching backstory or ongoing story, then thats just lazy.  I expect to be flamed for this, but in a sense, Eve is lazy design in many ways.  Sure it has some "deep" aspects to it, but overall its design just screams low budget and lazy to me.  Maybe that's why it only has about 330-350k subs at any given time and not much more.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
     

     

     

    This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

    Scroll down to my post.image

    I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

    Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

    Thank you big bother *fist in palm*

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by rodingo
    What some people call a sandbox, I call lazy design.  Am I calling all "sandbox" games lazy design?  No.  However, when players are the only ones driving content becuase the dev team couldn't come up with an antagonist worth a darn and a matching backstory or ongoing story, then thats just lazy.  I expect to be flamed for this, but in a sense, Eve is lazy design in many ways.  Sure it has some "deep" aspects to it, but overall its design just screams low budget and lazy to me.  Maybe that's why it only has about 330-350k subs at any given time and not much more.

    I think SWTOR might be more suitable for you, story is the 4th pillar there.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by rodingo
    What some people call a sandbox, I call lazy design.  Am I calling all "sandbox" games lazy design?  No.  However, when players are the only ones driving content becuase the dev team couldn't come up with an antagonist worth a darn and a matching backstory or ongoing story, then thats just lazy.  I expect to be flamed for this, but in a sense, Eve is lazy design in many ways.  Sure it has some "deep" aspects to it, but overall its design just screams low budget and lazy to me.  Maybe that's why it only has about 330-350k subs at any given time and not much more.

    You're confusing good design with storylines.

    EVE is a well designed game because it has several complex systems that tie into each other and give the players a plethora of tools for meaningful interaction, and the same goes for AoW.

    These games are not trying to create the silly illusion that every single player is an awesome hero progressing through a preset story and fighting the same immortal antagonist that dies 100 times every day. They're laying the groundwork for a virtual world where players' interactions are the important thing.

    Emitting story is not necessarily lazy (anyone with half an imagination can come up with a generic MMO storyline), it's a conscious design choice. This is not the same as just making an empty world and then hoping that the players will create a fun game out of it, though. Several indie "sandboxes" have attempted to do just that and THAT is lazy design. The trick is to cerate smart and fun systems for the players to use, but at the same time not locking them into preset stories or force-feed them certain activities. 

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,060Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
     

     

     

    This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

    Scroll down to my post.image

    I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

    Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

    Thank you big bother *fist in palm*

    Don't understand what you mean *fist in palm*?image

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  • CnameCname KinabaluPosts: 125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Fuuny thing is that SnailGames don't promote Age Of Wushu/Wulin as their main flagship sandbox MMO that is coming later this year.

    Age Of Wushu is  great game but the best is yet to come from SnailGames.

    June 5, 2012 US Pacific Time (June 6, 2012 China Time) - Snail Game’s flagship product Age of Wushu 

    They refere to it as their flagship on their own site 

    This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

    Scroll down to my post.image

    I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

    Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

    Snail Game has touted both Savage Horizon or AoW as "the" flagship game at different times. The problem I see is that the company is not large enough  to focus on several products concurrently which is what it is doing now - trying to develop three major MMORPG (AoW, Black Gold and Savage Horizon) at the same time.

    Snail often has to shuffle its limited development resources - apparently products which are nearing completion would always have priority. Such a situation occurred in early 2012 for the launch of AoW in China. It was suspected by some that this caused the Product leader of Savage Horizon to become unhappy and partly the reason why he resigned in mid 2012.

    Savage Horizon (and the forthcoming Black Gold) was previously both handled by Lu Le - who was in charge of Savage Horizon since 2010 till mid 2012. He once posted a few messages in English to the Dark and Light forum.

    The product leader of AoW is Bill Seun - when Lu Le left the company, it was announced that he is in charge of  Black Gold as well.

    One thing I noticed is lack of any announcement by Snail on who is overseeing the development of Savage Horizon at present.

    Technically, the Savage Horizon client probably uses a more advanced version of Snail's in-house developed common game engine called FLEX of which AoW is considered the 2nd version - the 1st version is the engine used in Snail's first game, Voyage Century. 

     

     

     

    "A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
     

     

     

    This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

    Scroll down to my post.image

    I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

    Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

    Thank you big bother *fist in palm*

    Don't understand what you mean *fist in palm*?image

    It's what you do when you bow in Chinese martial arts.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,060Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cname
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Fuuny thing is that SnailGames don't promote Age Of Wushu/Wulin as their main flagship sandbox MMO that is coming later this year.

    Age Of Wushu is  great game but the best is yet to come from SnailGames.

    June 5, 2012 US Pacific Time (June 6, 2012 China Time) - Snail Game’s flagship product Age of Wushu 

    They refere to it as their flagship on their own site 

    This will be their flagship sandbox MMO.

    Scroll down to my post.image

    I'm not putting Age Of Wushu down at all, it's a great game once you get passed the UI but that's being worked on. I'm just saying their is bigger and better on the way from SnailGames with beta at the end of the year.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376648/page/2

    Age Of  Wushu will keep us busy for now but Savage Horizons Bloodline makes Age Of Wushu look small fry.

    Snail Game has touted both Savage Horizon or AoW as "the" flagship game at different times. The problem I see is that the company is not large enough  to focus on several products concurrently which is what it is doing now - trying to develop three major MMORPG (AoW, Black Gold and Savage Horizon) at the same time.

    Snail often has to shuffle its limited development resources - apparently products which are nearing completion would always have priority. Such a situation occurred in early 2012 for the launch of AoW in China. It was suspected by some that this caused the Product leader of Savage Horizon to become unhappy and partly the reason why he resigned in mid 2012.

    Savage Horizon (and the forthcoming Black Gold) was previously both handled by Lu Le - who was in charge of Savage Horizon since 2010 till mid 2012. He once posted a few messages in English to the Dark and Light forum.

    The product leader of AoW is Bill Seun - when Lu Le left the company, it was announced that he is in charge of  Black Gold as well.

    One thing I noticed is lack of any announcement by Snail on who is overseeing the development of Savage Horizon at present.

    Technically, the Savage Horizon client probably uses a more advanced version of Snail's in-house developed common game engine called FLEX of which AoW is considered the 2nd version - the 1st version is the engine used in Snail's first game, Voyage Century. 

     

     

     

    Pretty sure Savage Horizions Bloodlines is using an in house updated graphics engine called Mafate Engine 2.0. We know it's been rebranded to be called Savage Horizions Bloodlines with a beta hopefully at the end of the year. 

    Dark&Light was made on the Mafate Engine 1.0

    I'm hoping they can get SHB into beta sooner than later but to be honest if EQNext is waht smed says it is then i won't be playing any other MMO.

    The next two years should bring some great sandbox&hybrid mmo's our way that's for sure.

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  • CnameCname KinabaluPosts: 125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Pretty sure Savage Horizions Bloodlines is using an in house updated graphics engine called Mafate Engine 2.0. We know it's been rebranded to be called Savage Horizions Bloodlines with a beta hopefully at the end of the year. 

    Dark&Light was made on the Mafate Engine 1.0

    I was younger then but I have played briefly in the original Dark&Light when it allowed free play shortly before it closed .

    From the more recent released pictures and videos of Savage Horizon we can observed certain visual features and elements which look similar to Black Gold (which use the upgraded engine of AoW) - even AoW players might recognized a few familiar elements.

    Given the significant difference between graphics and presentation of original D&L versus SHB, and also the legal controversy of the original Mafate engine, I doubt any of its codebase is used. So I think naming the SHB game engine Mafate 2.0 is a bit unlikely.

     

    "A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Is it me or do most people have their OWN version of 'a sandbox MMO'? People considered SWG sandbox, I can't say I did.

     

    "Being able to do what you want" is so generic it's not even funny.

    I can do what I want in any MMO, I just won't always succeed at it. If I wanna level naked in WoW I can, is it now a sandbox?


     

    The train of thought goes something like this:

    I like sandbox games(whatever that is supposed to be).
    I like AoW.
    Therefore AoW is a sandbox.


    Yeah, reasoning isn't a strong suit of average forum poster...

    I have never really seen anyone put up a good argument of a concrete definition of a sandbox MMO.. it's one of those things that has so many forms or interpretations the meaning is lost. So really it's all personal opinion.. For me a sandbox MMO is one that runs mainly on player created content.. player created cities, factions, political systems, player created economy, player ran quests. Basically the devs create a world and allow the players to shape it how they will. To me that's a sandbox but obviously others may not agree or not feel you need those things to be considered a sandbox MMO.. i tried AoW and if they fix up the interface and translation i may give it another go but overall i really wouldn't consider it a sandbox MMO by what i view a sandbox MMO to be

    This. When a game is dev driven and not player driven it becomes a non-sandbox game. There are sandbox elements in AoW, but the vast majority of the game is very themepark i.e. you do progress and consume content and not create it. That, and there isn't any real affect on the world.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by SuperNick

    Is it me or do most people have their OWN version of 'a sandbox MMO'? People considered SWG sandbox, I can't say I did.

     

    "Being able to do what you want" is so generic it's not even funny.

    I can do what I want in any MMO, I just won't always succeed at it. If I wanna level naked in WoW I can, is it now a sandbox?


     

    The train of thought goes something like this:

    I like sandbox games(whatever that is supposed to be).
    I like AoW.
    Therefore AoW is a sandbox.


    Yeah, reasoning isn't a strong suit of average forum poster...

    I have never really seen anyone put up a good argument of a concrete definition of a sandbox MMO.. it's one of those things that has so many forms or interpretations the meaning is lost. So really it's all personal opinion.. For me a sandbox MMO is one that runs mainly on player created content.. player created cities, factions, political systems, player created economy, player ran quests. Basically the devs create a world and allow the players to shape it how they will. To me that's a sandbox but obviously others may not agree or not feel you need those things to be considered a sandbox MMO.. i tried AoW and if they fix up the interface and translation i may give it another go but overall i really wouldn't consider it a sandbox MMO by what i view a sandbox MMO to be

    This. When a game is dev driven and not player driven it becomes a non-sandbox game. There are sandbox elements in AoW, but the vast majority of the game is very themepark i.e. you do progress and consume content and not create it. That, and there isn't any real affect on the world.

    Everything in AoW is player driven...

     

    Factions have formed btw. Not talking about schools. I'm talking about guild alliances have formed  factions. There're good guys, bad guys and neutrals. Factions as true as any dev manufactured faction game.  Really waging war for land. 

     

    Get past the tutorial then come talk to us, and the rest of the gaming world. 

     

    edit- just grabbed this quote from you - Look at EvE as a model for successful sandbox games, people build space stations, take over planets, control the economy, enter into politics, etc etc. 

     

    They iorny. Will someone fill this guy in. I'm done talking to people who review games they haven't played.

  • StarIStarI waka wakaPosts: 924Member Uncommon

    Nah, it has too many developer made restrictions and rules that you're forced to play by, for me to consider this a sandbox.

    I like it tho as it's quite a different kind of themepark, a step in a very good direction.

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