Big diff between GW2 and WOW. Ones free ones not. Find one where your still paying $15 a month then talk.
And it dont matter anymore WOW was and is and always will be the best. There are just to many mmos out for one to take over. Back then it was different.
Originally posted by Fendel84M I'd honestly say GW2 has a good chance at growing to WoW like numbers. It seems to be the only MMO since WoW thats actually gaining momentum since launch, rather than losing it.
I would not know, I pre-purchased the game and to date my total play time is under 15 minutes. But I expect I am counted in their numbers due to the B2P model.
They are already doing this, but it doesn't look very good so I doubt it will get many players. Not sure it would work well in a MMO without just turning into a generic medieval MMO. That IP would work better with a single player RPG (and yes, I realise one has already been done).
Maybe if they had it set in the past of Westeros where magic and the children of the forest were still prevalent? Because everyone would want to be a worg, wizard, greenseer or legendary hero.
Originally posted by stayontarget wow is down to 9m subs, that being said its still a shit load.
Down to 9.6m.
It's kind of hilarious to dismiss 600k players, which is what most other MMOs can never even hope to achieve.
ONTOPIC: IP doesn't matter, MMOs need to evolve into true persistent worlds with impacftul player controlled changes (like GOOD territory control systems, etc). If you really need an IP, Game of Thrones would work fine at the moment, but TV "fame" comes and goes.
Historically, IP had nothing to do with MMO success.
WoW doesn't need to be 'dethroned' - it's on a slow but steady decline. I expect it to take 2-3 more years, but WoW's days as the most popular are slowly drawing to a close.
I don't think another single MMORPG is ever going to see the marketshare % that Warcraft once had. What I do expect is to see about half dozen big names that combined occupy a similar piece. For example, right now I would expect that list to contain:
Guild Wars 2
Rift
The Lord of the Rings Online
Eve Online
But that's not to say another MMORPG couldn't make huge waves. I think, if done right, a Harry Potter MMORPG could be huge (and for the records, I'm not even a fan of the books myself). People forget that a large part of why WoW blasted off so quickly is because even before World of Warcraft, Blizzard had a huge fanbase to pull from. Which is exactly what you need if you want that kind of success, in addition to amazing gameplay and structure, of course.
the IP that's "going to dethrone" wow is probably Titan, Blizzards own successor to wow.
if you are really looking for IP that would make very successful MMO, how about...
Robert Jordan's wheel of time
The Iron Kingdoms (of Warmachine and Hordes fame)
Firefly
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
to kill WoW you need to make game with huge content, large activities, very polish, offer great support and, may be on cost less or equal of 15$ / months.
Game need to be attractive to large number of players and very addictive.
Any fault will resume fail and WoW gonna win.
I suppose it just impossible anymore. Such game should be made ages ago and progress same time as WoW. Years ago I saw Gw1 as such but this project was abandoned and replaced by "empty" eye candy of GW2.
WoW can die only if: we all will get bored of (and guys know it so update game), nobody could afford sub anymore (hope never see these days), if Blizzard will get rid of WoW for any reason (hope not or not soon).
So I guess we gonna have some more years of epic game!
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Good game design will go a lot farther towards achieving WoW's popularity than whatever IP they try to use. IP's have always been cheap money grabs in gaming, that almost never do all that well. They sell better than they otherwise would, given how mediocre they are, but they still end up in bargain bins pretty quick. I don't know why people think that will suddenly change, now that we're talking about MMOs.
If an IP does have anything to do with it, it would have to be a well known gaming IP, not some hollywood IP. It would have to be done by the company that made the IP huge in the first place. If gaming history is any indication at all.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I don't think the IP is all that important; the game matters more. In fact I am normally turned off by a big name IP as I assume it will be a money grab.
When I first heard that Bioware was making a Star Wars mmo, I found myself wishing they would make a Mass Effect mmo instead since that is their baby.
When the market is saturated with enough disgruntled players of todays games, the timing will be ripe for a decent MMO to pop up and grab attention of just enough people to spread the word and then it will be a giant game! The next Big MMO.
It could be from some already know IP or one in the making we are all mostly unaware of as of yet.
No other sub game will ever achieve close to WoW numbers.
No sub MMORPG will make a dent on WoW.
WoW is on a decline that will continue.
New games might not be enough to make massive dents on existing WoW population but WoW isn't good enough to warrant a $15 sub over other games for new players, so it will decline as players get tired of WoW and the money already invested isn't enough to warrant more money invested.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think the more relevant question would be, which game developer can overthrow Blizzard? After all, its the gameplay that makes the game a long term success, not necessarily the IP.
Originally posted by TheHavok I think the more relevant question would be, which game developer can overthrow Blizzard? After all, its the gameplay that makes the game a long term success, not necessarily the IP.
Only thing that makes WoW worth a shit now is accessibility.
They were groundbreaking in the early days (innovation, brand-name recognition, IP and perfect timing), now after years of being on top they no longer care about the NA/EU markets, at all.
Hell these days EQ2 is 10x the game WoW is, but has an abysmal population and an engine so bad it ruins everything.
Almost any IP with a good enough game could. Do you really care that much if you adventure in Azeroth, middle earth, Fearun, the old world or whatever?
World of warcrafts strenght was never the IP, it is at best average. The Blizzard mark on the game is more important than the IP...
Wow is ageing and have been loosing players a long time, someone will dethrone it pretty soon and it is not really the IP that is most important there.
The new game needs to be well made, fun to play (for the average gamer) and easy enough so anyone can play it.
I think you are spot on except for those two words. At 9.5+ million, even if they lost 1 million subscribers a year, they still have 7 or 8 years on top.
Unless the norm for mmo subs sky rockets or blizzard does something so aggregious that they lose multiple millions per year, or another game is released in that time which mirrors or eclipses WoW's success......or some combination.
All in all, looking at the numbers, the safe money is they still have a long time on top even bleeding subscribers.
The IP has no baring on the long term success of a game. Using the most successful IP in the buisness, EA could not keep 500k people paying for SWTOR.
The only way to knock off WoW is to do to WoW what WoW did to the orginal EverQuest. By that I mean improve the formula in every way imaginable, and continually tweak and improve the game over its lifecycle.
The IP has no baring on the long term success of a game. Using the most successful IP in the buisness, EA could not keep 500k people paying for SWTOR.
The only way to knock off WoW is to do to WoW what WoW did to the orginal EverQuest. By that I mean improve the formula in every way imaginable, and continually tweak and improve the game over its lifecycle.
Actually what WoW did was bring in most of its player base from outside of the MMORPG genre. This may be the only way of producing another WoW.
Originally posted by Fendel84M I'd honestly say GW2 has a good chance at growing to WoW like numbers. It seems to be the only MMO since WoW thats actually gaining momentum since launch, rather than losing it.
Active players or total boxes sold? I haven't played in months but I bet they would still count me. Don't expect me to return either.
I might return and check it out if they release a proper native OSX client, instead of that crap cider port they cludged together with their money-grubbing little fingers just for a few extra bucks from the Apple crowd.
Almost any IP with a good enough game could. Do you really care that much if you adventure in Azeroth, middle earth, Fearun, the old world or whatever?
World of warcrafts strenght was never the IP, it is at best average. The Blizzard mark on the game is more important than the IP...
Wow is ageing and have been loosing players a long time, someone will dethrone it pretty soon and it is not really the IP that is most important there.
The new game needs to be well made, fun to play (for the average gamer) and easy enough so anyone can play it.
Always nice one can click on the history button. Here is the 6 year old link of this "future teller"..... in 2007
"Wow will lose players to those games because right now there isn't much competion. Blizzard will be forced to restructure the game a lot and add more content. They will also have to buff up the graphic a lot. If Blizzard spend some of the kazillion money they gotten they can still be the leading game in a few years but eventually every great game declines.
My guess would be a million players by 2010 unless they make a really big change and then 100K by 2015"
Talking about a GW2 viral marketer getting owned by his own claims ...
Of course nobody could know in 2007 WOW would have 9.6 million subs in 2013. The big sruprise though is that all the rest went free to play ... and hasn't got subs anymore...
Comments
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
Big diff between GW2 and WOW. Ones free ones not. Find one where your still paying $15 a month then talk.
And it dont matter anymore WOW was and is and always will be the best. There are just to many mmos out for one to take over. Back then it was different.
a Daoc (2.0) version of that would be amazing !
Closest would be a LOL mmo, not that i would play it.
I would not know, I pre-purchased the game and to date my total play time is under 15 minutes. But I expect I am counted in their numbers due to the B2P model.
They are already doing this, but it doesn't look very good so I doubt it will get many players. Not sure it would work well in a MMO without just turning into a generic medieval MMO. That IP would work better with a single player RPG (and yes, I realise one has already been done).
Maybe if they had it set in the past of Westeros where magic and the children of the forest were still prevalent? Because everyone would want to be a worg, wizard, greenseer or legendary hero.
Down to 9.6m.
It's kind of hilarious to dismiss 600k players, which is what most other MMOs can never even hope to achieve.
ONTOPIC: IP doesn't matter, MMOs need to evolve into true persistent worlds with impacftul player controlled changes (like GOOD territory control systems, etc). If you really need an IP, Game of Thrones would work fine at the moment, but TV "fame" comes and goes.
Historically, IP had nothing to do with MMO success.
http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615
WoW doesn't need to be 'dethroned' - it's on a slow but steady decline. I expect it to take 2-3 more years, but WoW's days as the most popular are slowly drawing to a close.
I don't think another single MMORPG is ever going to see the marketshare % that Warcraft once had. What I do expect is to see about half dozen big names that combined occupy a similar piece. For example, right now I would expect that list to contain:
the IP that's "going to dethrone" wow is probably Titan, Blizzards own successor to wow.
if you are really looking for IP that would make very successful MMO, how about...
Robert Jordan's wheel of time
The Iron Kingdoms (of Warmachine and Hordes fame)
Firefly
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
was WoW not killed yet by Rift and GW2? =XD
to kill WoW you need to make game with huge content, large activities, very polish, offer great support and, may be on cost less or equal of 15$ / months.
Game need to be attractive to large number of players and very addictive.
Any fault will resume fail and WoW gonna win.
I suppose it just impossible anymore. Such game should be made ages ago and progress same time as WoW. Years ago I saw Gw1 as such but this project was abandoned and replaced by "empty" eye candy of GW2.
WoW can die only if: we all will get bored of (and guys know it so update game), nobody could afford sub anymore (hope never see these days), if Blizzard will get rid of WoW for any reason (hope not or not soon).
So I guess we gonna have some more years of epic game!
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Good game design will go a lot farther towards achieving WoW's popularity than whatever IP they try to use. IP's have always been cheap money grabs in gaming, that almost never do all that well. They sell better than they otherwise would, given how mediocre they are, but they still end up in bargain bins pretty quick. I don't know why people think that will suddenly change, now that we're talking about MMOs.
If an IP does have anything to do with it, it would have to be a well known gaming IP, not some hollywood IP. It would have to be done by the company that made the IP huge in the first place. If gaming history is any indication at all.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I don't think the IP is all that important; the game matters more. In fact I am normally turned off by a big name IP as I assume it will be a money grab.
When I first heard that Bioware was making a Star Wars mmo, I found myself wishing they would make a Mass Effect mmo instead since that is their baby.
The Unknown IP ,
coming out of nowhere ,
probly with not alot of hype at first.
Then BAM,
tons of players making it a great game.
When the market is saturated with enough disgruntled players of todays games, the timing will be ripe for a decent MMO to pop up and grab attention of just enough people to spread the word and then it will be a giant game! The next Big MMO.
It could be from some already know IP or one in the making we are all mostly unaware of as of yet.
No other sub game will ever achieve close to WoW numbers.
No sub MMORPG will make a dent on WoW.
WoW is on a decline that will continue.
New games might not be enough to make massive dents on existing WoW population but WoW isn't good enough to warrant a $15 sub over other games for new players, so it will decline as players get tired of WoW and the money already invested isn't enough to warrant more money invested.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If Star Wars couldn't do it - with two attempts - I don't think any exisitng IP will do it.
WoW will die eventually I'm sure; but I'm starting to think it will outlive me and any possible future grandchildren!
I think the more relevant question would be, which game developer can overthrow Blizzard? After all, its the gameplay that makes the game a long term success, not necessarily the IP.
Only thing that makes WoW worth a shit now is accessibility.
They were groundbreaking in the early days (innovation, brand-name recognition, IP and perfect timing), now after years of being on top they no longer care about the NA/EU markets, at all.
Hell these days EQ2 is 10x the game WoW is, but has an abysmal population and an engine so bad it ruins everything.
I think you are spot on except for those two words. At 9.5+ million, even if they lost 1 million subscribers a year, they still have 7 or 8 years on top.
Unless the norm for mmo subs sky rockets or blizzard does something so aggregious that they lose multiple millions per year, or another game is released in that time which mirrors or eclipses WoW's success......or some combination.
All in all, looking at the numbers, the safe money is they still have a long time on top even bleeding subscribers.
The IP has no baring on the long term success of a game. Using the most successful IP in the buisness, EA could not keep 500k people paying for SWTOR.
The only way to knock off WoW is to do to WoW what WoW did to the orginal EverQuest. By that I mean improve the formula in every way imaginable, and continually tweak and improve the game over its lifecycle.
Actually what WoW did was bring in most of its player base from outside of the MMORPG genre. This may be the only way of producing another WoW.
I might return and check it out if they release a proper native OSX client, instead of that crap cider port they cludged together with their money-grubbing little fingers just for a few extra bucks from the Apple crowd.
Always nice one can click on the history button. Here is the 6 year old link of this "future teller"..... in 2007
"Wow will lose players to those games because right now there isn't much competion. Blizzard will be forced to restructure the game a lot and add more content. They will also have to buff up the graphic a lot. If Blizzard spend some of the kazillion money they gotten they can still be the leading game in a few years but eventually every great game declines.
My guess would be a million players by 2010 unless they make a really big change and then 100K by 2015"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/724170/page/1501
Talking about a GW2 viral marketer getting owned by his own claims ...
Of course nobody could know in 2007 WOW would have 9.6 million subs in 2013. The big sruprise though is that all the rest went free to play ... and hasn't got subs anymore...
Dethrone in what ? Meaningless forum posts ?