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Originally posted by evilastro They have already stated that they have another 3 classes pretty much ready to go immediately after launch, just they were figuring out how to monetise them. I would say Ranger and Druid are a safe bet for classes immediately after launch. Hopefully Bard as well.
And you believe that, dont you? What is immediately after launch? 1 day, 1 week, 1 month? If the classes were "ready to go" then they should be in the game at launch. According to the mods on their forum, the classes are supposed to be free, so are we really waiting for them to monetise them? While it didn't really affect me in STO, but its been 3 years now and they still havent put in klingon PVE yet, and that was also promised to be put in as well. So, yeah, my faith in them living up to their promises is not very high.
Originally posted by FonclIs there any resource management for healers in this game(mana) or is everything just cooldown based?
Every class has the yellow filling dice in the middle of the skillbar. It's a ressource for powerful daily abilities. The speed of how it fills up is also changeable due to points you spent in your "skilltree" and gear. Aside from that each class has an unique ressource.
Clerics have a "sidebar" where you can switch to an alternative mode (via tab key) where you skills have more healing / more damage or are instant and you can nuke while running instead of standing still. It fills up with regular skill use (with boni from gear stats and skilltrees) and is used up in the divine tab mode.
Guardian fighters have Shield Stamina (while blocking), heavy hitters (bosses and big monsters) deplete your shield stamina as well as using attacks while blocking. Once it's empty you can't block till the stamina is filled up completly!
Tricksters have the same kind of minigame as clerics just they get stealth and can stab stuff while stealthed.
As a cleric you are constantly switching to the desired mode additionally to the inherit cooldowns.
Playing: EVE OnlineWants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter
Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online
Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2
Lack of an Archer type class is a huge fail imo. I'ts one of the basic archetypes and if they try to sell a basic archetype class in the shop later on, i will not touch this game ever again. They should have even put some unique D&D classes in there too from the beginning to differentiate their game from others.
I'm not liking the heavy instanced approach too. They said it would be a full-fledged mmo but it seems they couldn't get away too much from their initial lobby-based design. That sucks big time for me.
I played Neverwinter Online the WHOLE weekend - pretty much that and sleep is all that I did - I LOVED the game, after playing this game at PAX last August, in 2012, I really didn't think it was going to 'grab me' like that, but it did.
Here is my take after having played a Dedicated Cleric to Max Level (30) and a Trickster Rogue to about around level 15:
Is it fun to play?
YES! Most definitely it is! I LOVED it; the fact that this is an Action MMORPG really upped the 'fun factor' to me. Of course folks need to go into the game with their expectations set. This game shares 'lore' with the D&D franchise setting in the sword coast, but it is NOT the pen and paper game. This game shares the distinction of being played on a computer, but it is NOT Never winter nights 1 or 2 where you would control a group of characters in strategic combat (if you used the 'pause button' you could almost get the sense of turn based game play with those.) I have played the Pen and Paper game, I have Played Never winter nights 1 and 2 and I can most definitely assure you this game is NOT, either of those games. So, don't go chasing after playing it hoping that it IS and you'll enjoy your experience much more.
What it DOES well, is capture the rich lore and 'feel' of the setting - I loved the art design choices made, and the stories seemed well suited to the setting (yes, I've read a few of the books too.) for me, the amount of skills available to me at one time, seemed perfect for what I needed to accomplish - I still felt like I was making strategic decisions for what skill to use when. There was also a depth to the game in that I had a deep set of skills to choose from. I could pick which ones to set on my 'active' bar and use those. By changing those, up, you could really alter the ‘style’ of game play that your character had.
I tried to play with a 360 controller, and I think it will be possible, but, after about an hour, I went back to keyboard and mouse... there were a few things not 'polished' with it, and unfortunately I have forgotten what they were. I think it mostly had to do with not having access to all of the abilities that I needed – I don’t think I ever figured out what you were supposed to use for the ‘tab’ key for instance. And there were other things that should have been accessible via the controller that weren’t. at this stage, the keyboard and mouse felt great. That said, if the ability to customize the buttons on the 360 controller were implemented, I could see that being a viable option. (though you would still want your keyboard close for out of combat uses, for movement and combat – I think a controller would work fine.) As a matter of fact, I imagine that I could have programed the 360 in the computer settings and got the effect that I wanted out of it – but – it really wasn’t a priority for me – I just had it connected and figured I’d pick it up n see what it felt like.
As for the Active Skill ‘amount’ argument - No there were not as many active skills as there are in other MMO's, but honestly, I really never missed having 6 x 12 hot key's to choose from - the action and combat was fluid and felt great! I was engaged the whole time. Combat was solid - it was paced well enough that there were 'harder' fights spaced out between fights that you didn't have to use all your powers on, that it kept things exciting, without slowing down the game while you waited for your skills to recharge. Also there was some player created content from the forge that was killer hard! My first death was in a player made adventure.
Speaking of death... I don't even remember a 'death penalty' so - other than walking back to continue your quest, there must not be one... this will disappoint some, and relive others - I found it fine. I like a heavy death penalty in single player games - but in group games, I don't as it causes a different chemistry in Groups. (Remember that guy in EQ that made you lose hours of work cause of his dumb mistakes? ya - experience loss - the death of many an online friendship. :-P )
I'm running out of time for my review, so, I'm going to summarize - I really enjoyed it! I'm REALLY looking forward to playing more - I REALLY hope it's not clear till 'December' when it's released - sigh.
Regarding Stability, Sound and other things:
Personally I didn't have issues with disconnecting. The sounds were great, other than an annoying thing that if you stood in certain areas, the 'speech loop' would run over and over and over again till madness ensued, or, till you remember your 'mute' button... I hit Mute EVERY time I'd enter the market... there was one annoying guy 'shouting' out his wares, that started to peel the paint off my wall his voice was so grating.
The other 'negative' sound thing was - I was in an area - clock tower, I think, and it was NON STOP combat music... like the kind that pops on in a final fantasy battle scene. Holy COW that is just not something you should have to listen to for more than 20 seconds every 5 minutes you know? So, I popped music down to 0 in settings, and there it stayed for the remainder of my weekend. I cannot speak to the 'music' quality other than to say; in my first adventure sessions it was so annoying that I turned it off. I'm sure this is something they can fix by retail.
The in game voice chat was hit or miss in the groups that I was in – meaning that sometimes you could chat with folks in your party, and sometimes you couldn’t. (Pretty much it was like every other game that has Voice chat in it,) so, like all the other games that have voice chat, I'll most likely be using Mumble or Ventrilo unless this is something they resolve. (Not a deal breaker - just par for the course at this point.)
Stability was better than many a triple A MMO at retail release - I'm looking at you Sony and blizzard - if this was a retail release - I'd rate it above average as far as stability and getting connected to the game goes. Of course, you’d have to consider that it was a ‘limited’ release – had every one that ‘wanted’ toplay been able to play… who knows, right?
That said, over the course of 25 -35 hours of game play, I'd say I experienced a Disconnect once every 6 hours or so. And each time getting back in was a snap. With disconnects happening, during ‘prime play time’ (Saturday evening, it was a tad worse,) However, stability was well within 'tolerable' standards - even for a retail release, so, hopefully it can only get better.
There were a couple of other things that I wanted to add as 'improvement wishes' but - I didn't write them down, and they weren't big enough that they stuck in my head - sooo, I have forgotten them, other than the fact that I know I had the idea, so I know that there is room for improvement.
Bottom line: I loved the game, and can't wait to play more.
5 classes? sure that's not a bunch of options - but they have the 'main' core abilities taken care of, and it's plenty to have fun with till they come out with more. I loved both the Cleric, and the rogue - they both played VERY differently.
Dedicated Claric seemed to play more like a traditional 'mage' would in these kinds of games - I used him like a ranged spell caster, most of the heals came from spells that I'd use on enemy's that would then provide 'healing' to party members - I didn't feel like a traditional 'cleric' where I would stand back and focus heal my party - but after a while, I really got into how it played. I 'do' kind of miss the feel of being the 'healer' but - I must say I quite enjoyed casting spells to hurt, that also 'healed' - oh, I have to say that this was 'my style' of play, and that I think a person 'could' probably play closer to the action if they wanted - and perhaps could even be more of the dedicated 'healer' if they put the right skills on their bar - I chose the 'mix' dps / healz and had fun with it.
Holy cow was combat fun with this guy! I grouped with a Cleric and I felt freaking unstoppable! Zip in, Zip around, laying waste to my enemies! It plays VERY positional - and probably works best in a group where it can easily get in behind or to the side of an enemy and take advantage of HUGE flanking bonuses. I REALLY like the way this guy played.
And now, for some discussion regarding the question that is on all of our minds;
Is it 'Pay to Win' or can it be enjoyed 'free'? I should start this with a caveat, to mention that it looked like they were really trying to keep their monetization strategy under wraps for now... so everything that I talk about is just me looking at the bits that were poking through - we really don't have enough info. To make clear call's on this aspect yet. That said, here is what I think:
I HATE that it is 'free to play' as I always, ALWAYS end up spending more money in 'free' to play games that I enjoy than I do in subscription based games. That said the developers have repeatedly made the statement that they are focused on making a very FUN to play game first - and then they are hesitant to talk about how they are going to 'monetize' it. Even in this beta, the 'monetization' thing wasn't super apparent - BUT, you could see the area's where it's set to latch on.
My preliminary opinion, with pretty much NOTHING to base it on, (kidding there were plenty of 'tells' in the game even at this stage,) is that the game really WILL be enjoyable free of charge. At least it has the potential to do so. I also think that the first place people will spend some cash will be on 'bags' and storage - that might be a bit of a 'pinch' playing for free - though via quests it looks like you do get some space expansion as you would expect.
How ‘Pay to Win’ Is it? - Not 'too' bad. The 'pay to win' part is hidden nicely AND it looked like there was a path that normal 'play' would allow you to advance your character in the same direction, so 'paying' was more of a 'time benefit' than a 'pure advantage', which is great. For me, the 'pay to win' aspect fell well within the 'tolerable' range. For reference, a 'cash shop' for items that give advantages that are available for 'pay' but can't be obtained by 'free' players - is outside of my range of tolerance - I did not see such things in the game. (And hope it stays that way.)
There will be lots of cosmetic things to buy, - Mounts, Dress up costumes, dye's etc. - all that's to be expected. the area that a guy 'could' go over board is by buying the 'bits' required to 'upgrade' your companion (runes,) and your equipment (I forget the name - I'll refer to them as 'enchants') Basically, you 'can' find these bits in game, and you CAN buy them off of the auction house from other players, that either 'bought them' or found them - so, 'buying them' with real money is just 'speeding up' the game for those that want to pay - (tolerable in my opinion,)
That said, you could spend a lot of time or money upgrading those Runes and Enchants. You merge 4 tokens/runes of one level, to get 1 token/rune to a level higher. The chance of failure increases at higher levels, and a failure costs 1 of the runes that you’re using to level up. You will be able to 'buy' (or perhaps find,) an item that will ensure success - (it wasn't in the beta, but the slot for it was.) So, to get a level 3 rune you would need at least 16 level 1 runes, to make 4 level 2 runes - which could make 1 level 3 rune. To make a level 4, you'd need to start with 64 Level 1 Runes. The Failure rate was %10 to upgrade to level 2, %20 to upgrade to level 3 and %30 to upgrade to level 4 - so you can count on using more than the minimum.
Anyway - this all 'sounds' complex, and I'm sure that there will be some good tutorials made by the Dev's to explain it all - but basically it's a way to 'monetize' the game, and for players to 'speed up' the advancement if they don't want to 'find' the runes and enchants on their own through regular game play. And I DID get quite a few rune/enchant drops, which I could use, or sell, then take the cash made, and buy the ones that were appropriate to what I needed.
Sorry to take so much 'review' time on this - but - the monetization process is extremely important to me in these games - I don't want to invest a ton of time, only to find out that I can't progress farther without dropping a ton of cash. Of course, we can't know for absolute 'sure' yet what the future will hold - but, in my opinion, everything that I see, places this game well within the tolerable zone. On the 'pay 2 win' scale.
Ok, I'll wrap it up! I loved the beta, and can't wait to play more! I’m happy to plunk down a bit of my cash to support this game and hope that they don't try to 'force' me to feel like I have to pay to continue to enjoy it at higher levels. So far, all indicators are that they developers are working diligently to make a fun to play game, with areas that you 'can' support the game but not feel like you 'have' to pay to enjoy it - and that's all good in my book. More power to ya! Just keep your non developer marketing friends in check and we will all be happy campers.
Wade "zWolf" Hone - out.
Originally posted by Foncl Is there any resource management for healers in this game(mana) or is everything just cooldown based?
Mostly just cool down based, on the 'daily skill' you 'build up' the points to use it by using your other skills.
I missed this weekend but I watched the early press streaming, and the game looks promising. Was a bit amusing though when they looked at features in marvel, features which came from Cryptic's previous games (like Foundry donation, the notification panel next to the minimap, the arrangeable hud, the calendar and mission panel, the timed open world events, etc). It's great that STO / CO players will feel themselves at home in the game right away.
Honestly I can't wait the next beta, even though I don't like action combat (in a whole)... but I will try to put that aside, because Neverwinter has great potential. I think at first I'll dedicate myself to the Devoted Cleric (or dedicated? I can't decide since everybody calls it dedicated cleric for some reason... lol)
Originally posted by Lanfea ... well, people will pay anyway. i wonder if i could sell those people a car and tell them to deliver half of it during the next years.
I'm betting if the basic 'car' worked, and you were selling things like 'automatic locks', seat heaters, paint jobs, nicer rims, better tires etc. I bet you'd find some folks that would take you up on that - especially, if you let them drive it for free for a while, and as they decided they wanted the 'extra' stuff then they'd pay for it - ya, I can dfinitely see that being successful.
sign me up Lanfea!
Originally posted by rygard49 I suspect any future classes will be released through the cash shop. I don't expect any other classes will make it into the core, free to play game without us having to pay for them.
I was about to write the very same thing. So +1 to your comment. Once it's f2p then I'll give it a try
Originally posted by montin Originally posted by rygard49 I suspect any future classes will be released through the cash shop. I don't expect any other classes will make it into the core, free to play game without us having to pay for them.
Biggest worry is that each new class will $5 to $10 and be much better than the starting classes.
Also, the low number of starting classes with immediate promises for more makes sense in that when you make a new class it will start at level 1 and if you want to catch up there are Exp potions in the cash shop. Get buying.
Originally posted by Magnum2103 Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by Skuall 3 skills + 2 mouse attacks +1 daily skill
You just can't have too many skill options in an action game as most people would not be able to handle it. Having to respond correctly to a situation or die instantly makes it harsh on having multiple choice combat.
This is completely untrue. Look at Fighting Games. You have roughly 20 or so different "moves" per character and it's definitely in the action game category. An Elementalist in GW2 is another example where you have 20+ different abilities available to you during combat.
Still, I don't think the number of skills in a game has much to do with fun factor. I've played games where essentially you only have LMB and RMB attacks and maybe 1 or 2 other abilities on top of that and it was just as fun as games with over 40 (WoW for example overwhelms you with situationally useful skills that usually sit on your hotbar used for long periods of time). Also, Neverwinter has much more skills than this. For example Guardian Fighter has:
In fighting games, those are combo moves where you use the same movement keys / attacks / defenses, but in specific orders to get an extra result. As far as I'm concerned, simon says combat is even worse than having a few individual skills. I hate having developers dictate the order and the manner in which I use those skills.
Originally posted by SBFord The pros pretty much were a feature of my Friday Preview though, in fairness, in today's article, I mentioned how great combat was, how much I liked companions, how much more expansive the world actually is than I initially thought and that the potential for a great game is there if, over time, Cryptic pays attention.
This is where NW has me worried. Cryptic has always been to comfortable leaving things undone and making many promises that they dont feel they need to follow through for what ever reasons. Of the MMOs they have made I say NW looks the best and I will give it a try and I am sure I will have fun. Before I give them money I will wait to see how well they manage this game. Careful Cryptic we are watching.
=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums.
Originally posted by Wraithone Cryptic and PWE... What could go wrong?... ^^ Given how STO turned out (shudder...) and judging by what I've seen so far, I can't say that I'm really looking forward to this new game. If Cryptic does its usual ill conceived and sloppy job, coupled with PWE's well known focus... The future does not look very bright for our well known and well loved Never Winter.
Yeah, Cryptic and PWE, a killer combo...
No doubt PWE love the NWN franchise, because it's a huge world with a rich tapestry of character types... which means they have a huge potential for monetizing content.
And Cryptic must be hoping that this "Big IP" will be their ticket to riches, seeing as STO totally failed to deliver the numbers that one would expect from the Star Trek IP. Besides, NWN will be far easier to "adapt" to a standard MMO template, whereas Star Trek was never going to fit that model comfortably.
Originally posted by Vorthanion Originally posted by Skuall 3 skills + 2 mouse attacks +1 daily skill
Um...this arguement is justification for eventually calling a light switch an MMORPG.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignonewww.spankybus.com-3d Artist & Compositor-Writer-Professional Amature
This reads more like a prepared statement by Cryptic given to the author and told to put a nice gloss on it since she has played the game.
Honestly I'm tired of reading these pre-release hype articles that the site has to release to maintain advertising dollar income. The whole article takes on a polite tone of if Cryptic did this , why didn't Cryptic , Cryptic promises to improve/expand and in general tries to take a real positive stance. Problem is this is Cryptic and their track record in CO and STO , frankkly stinks.
The instancing is the same as CO and STO and will be used as heavily. The Server stability is based on the system currently used by STO . Guess what ? The same issues will persist. Same for the compaions , which are dumb as dirt. As for content look to the history of CO and STO to see how content will be approached. Expect bugs to be ignored or to linger for years. Conent will be introduced only if and when the game is profitible in a manner to allow it's production to begin, otherwise Cryptic has decided the Foundry will be the source of content.
Expect another smashing success on par of CO and STO. I can hardly wait until the advertising money stops flowing and the real articles appear. Jeez
Originally posted by Yamota So yet another instanced, ThemePark MMO. Haven't we got enough of these already?
not enough good ones no:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by Yamota So yet another instanced, ThemePark MMO. Haven't we got enough of these already?
And this is one of those? Seriously?
We are talking about the same company which wrecked the Star Trek and Champions IPs with sub-par MMOs. And I use that therm lightly...
Beside that, how many great IPs and multimillion budget teams do you need to produce "good" one's?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Originally posted by Yamota Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by Yamota So yet another instanced, ThemePark MMO. Haven't we got enough of these already?
i know many that love STO now since PW took over.. champions I never tried and don't know anyone who plays it so can't comment.. themeparks still have their place and many still love them and I'm happy to see ones that come out with some fresh ideas. And yes this looks like it will be a decent game from what i have seen and heard.. really the foundry is my big draw but overall it looks like a solid enough game for f2p. I spent thousands of hours creating games in the old RPG Maker series which had shit graphics but was a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to using my creative skills to make quests/dungeons for my firends and others to enjoy.
Yes, for some people, this is one of those.
I like STO, you don't. Who cares?
You should apply your last question to the sandbox devs. How many failed sandbox attempts are we going to get before we ever even get one good one? Sanboxers don't have a lot of room to throw stones until they come up with some successful sandbox alternatives to themeparks.