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Why ubergrafics aren't important

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  • gregoryvggregoryvg Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by dimnikar

    I'm sorry, but no.

     

    Graphics are extremely important, especially in a genre that's supposed to be deeply immersive.

    If you really feel that way go play Guild Wars 2 and let me know how immersive that game is.

    My point is an immersive game requires way more than state of the art graphics.  Graphics are important, but the gameplay is even more so.  I would rather have a game with a "7" for graphics and engaging gameplay, than a game like GW2 (for example) which is a "10" for graphics, but with gameplay that is rather blah.  

    It's all in how CSE decides to use their funding; pretty shiny graphics and sub-par gameply or good graphics and (hopefully) good gameplay.

  • gregoryvggregoryvg Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I disagree.

    You need pretty good graphics. I'm not talking ps2 or tsw quality that stops people on low end systems playing the game. But gw2 type quality is about right.

    I don't know, but I think expecting Guild Wars 2 type quality from this independant publisher might be a bit much. But this game probably won't be released for another two to three years so maybe by than that won't be impossible.  Just remember, CSE will have limited funding and making great graphics takes great dollars.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    To make a great game with a long shelf life you need great gameplay, great storytelling and great graphics. Graphics is probably the least of the 3, but then again it's the graphics that gives the amazing factor so it shouldnt be under valued.

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  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    I think it'd be fine with DAOC type graphics. I don't have to have the best graphics to enjoy a game. Heck look at Ultima Online, I've been subscribed to it since release despite the graphics, I still am subscribed, because it's still a good game.

    As for storytelling, I don't need that. If I want a story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I don't need it in an Mmorpg.

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  • gregoryvggregoryvg Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    To make a great game with a long shelf life you need great gameplay, great storytelling and great graphics. Graphics is probably the least of the 3, but then again it's the graphics that gives the amazing factor so it shouldnt be under valued.

    Storytelling?  In an MMO?  I disagree.  Storytelling implies a beginning, a middle and an end.  To me an MMO should not have that.  An MMO needs to be an open world where everyone has their own beggining, middle and end as determined  by the player.  Everquest had it right at first when they said "you're in our world now", because that's what it should be.  You are in a different world, not a game with a story.

    Otherwise I agree with your post great gameply trumps all and graphics are a distant last as long as they are good and do not detract from gameplay.

  • tleartlear Toronto, ONPosts: 142Member
    If the game is good I will settle for WoW release level graphics. I stop noticing this stuff couple days into the game. Smooth combat in a fight where you have hundreds of players present is MUCH more important.
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon

    I think graphics are important for any RPG (not just MMO), but not in terms of eye candy. Graphics are important in terms of customization.

     

    For example, Ultima VI was a very good rpg and ahead of it's time not so much because of the graphics, but because of the fact that the graphics enabled the customization of the character (ie. different armor and weapon makes the avatar looked different, enabling the user to see crafting task such as baking bread, etc).

     

    Players like to customize their toon in an rpg, no doubt about it on that one I think.

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVPosts: 269Member Uncommon

    Can't speak for anyone but for me animation trumps graphics anyway. Without fluid movement polygon count and texture resolution mean jack shit. The key to smooth and fluid combat is smooth and fluid animation, not strobe light level frames of animation. Graphics mean something but don't mean everything. Crysis level graphics with minecraft level animation mean nothing. Crysis level graphics with SWTOR Ilum like performance also means nothing.

     

    In the end its all about finding proper balance. What looks good, moves good, but also has the performance abaility to keep 100+ people on screen at once while spells/seige/melee is all happening is going to be the key.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Sure, graphics are important.  But, when you can't even see players on your screen due to limitations of the engine, it's a moot point. 
  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Raagnarz

    Can't speak for anyone but for me animation trumps graphics anyway. Without fluid movement polygon count and texture resolution mean jack shit. The key to smooth and fluid combat is smooth and fluid animation, not strobe light level frames of animation. Graphics mean something but don't mean everything. Crysis level graphics with minecraft level animation mean nothing. Crysis level graphics with SWTOR Ilum like performance also means nothing.

     

    In the end its all about finding proper balance. What looks good, moves good, but also has the performance abaility to keep 100+ people on screen at once while spells/seige/melee is all happening is going to be the key.

    Sadly it appears CU will be a pvp-only game, so they can have no excuses. It needs to be able to hold an entire server in one fight or it's not good enough.

    Unless this game restricts player numbers or instances the pvp, players won't be off pve-ing, levelling, questing, they will all be in pvp....all of them.

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  • Storm_FirebladeStorm_Fireblade FlensburgPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan

    Sadly it appears CU will be a pvp-only game, so they can have no excuses. It needs to be able to hold an entire server in one fight or it's not good enough.

    Unless this game restricts player numbers or instances the pvp, players won't be off pve-ing, levelling, questing, they will all be in pvp....all of them.

    Well, you are wrong here. They did mention crafting and housing and I wouldn´t underestimate the importance of these features in a nichegame, that plans to focus on a player-driven economy.

    I do agree though, that CSE is forced to deliver a smooth gameplay even or especially when hundres of players are coming together. A RvR-based game needs to be lagfree if its going to have any chance of succes.

    Still - in my humble opinion - they shouldn´t just render graphics unimportant. Sure, the way Camelot Unchained seems to go it doesn´t need any next generations graphics and be top of that gameaspect, but it should at least still look competitive compared with other games at that time.

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  • ZzuluZzulu Washington, ALPosts: 452Member
    This is  a low budget MMO developed by a handful of developers. Don't worry, you're not getting anything fancy
  • SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member
    Originally posted by Zzulu
    This is  a low budget MMO developed by a handful of developers. Don't worry, you're not getting anything fancy

    Low budget with just a handful of developers... hmm... sounds like Daoc when it first launched. ;)  It was pretty amazing to me that they could pull off a seamless, persistent world when the big dawg (Everquest) those days was sectioned into a bunch of zones.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member

    I wouldn't expect anything insanly top end, but id hope theres some decent details in the models and effects. I honestly dont think GW2 graphics are that great, i dont see why they wouldn't be able to match or beat them.

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  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member
    Originally posted by skyexile

    I wouldn't expect anything insanly top end, but id hope theres some decent details in the models and effects. I honestly dont think GW2 graphics are that great, i dont see why they wouldn't be able to match or beat them.

    Not discounting your opinion, but i am curious what mmo you consider as good or excellent graphics ?

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  • TatercakeTatercake Auburn, WAPosts: 279Member

    not me i enjoy ubergrfx and if my pc wont play good with uber grfx why compete with  apeace of crap pc you like old and the same thing i been gaming online pvpen since UO and i  want gaming to evolve not devolve  

     

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    But I like ubergrafics, why do I have a GTX  680 then, if I don´t get ubergrafics?

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  • HagnarHagnar AlessandriaPosts: 39Member
    Am I the only one that would love to see a Daoc style graphics with some improvements? I don't need much more, but please... do not choose cartoony style! 

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  • MasitaMasita AugsburgPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by Hagnar
    Am I the only one that would love to see a Daoc style graphics with some improvements? I don't need much more, but please... do not choose cartoony style! 

    second that, especially concerning armor and weapon skins... sometimes it gets annoying

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

    Many guys here seem to think that the culling issues on GW2 have anything to do with graphics or your own computer specs. They don't. It's a server issue and even if the graphics were just stick figures the culling would be there.

    Great graphics with 200 players visible in the same spot can be done. It all boils to network code and bandwidth. Everything else is client-side and should be able to be tuned from the shiniest of shiny to the butt-ugly, depending on your computer specs.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Many guys here seem to think that the culling issues on GW2 have anything to do with graphics or your own computer specs. They don't. It's a server issue and even if the graphics were just stick figures the culling would be there.

    Great graphics with 200 players visible in the same spot can be done. It all boils to network code and bandwidth. Everything else is client-side and should be able to be tuned from the shiniest of shiny to the butt-ugly, depending on your computer specs.

    Pretty much this ^.

    The problem with GW2 is almost entirely due to a poorly optimized server tech, combined slightly with a poorly optimized balance between CPU and GPU tasks. The game is still heavily CPU intensive, and as laughable as it sounds, the game has had problems in the past with culling in sPvP (yup, 16 player maps... with culling).

    Afaik most of the sPvP culling issues have been fixed, but it still doesn't speak very highly of the server optomization.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Graphics are in no why more important than any MMORPG feature. Graphics really mean zero in a MMORPG anyway. We use to play them texted based and they had more depth than what we get given today. Depth, gameplay and immersion are what developer should be focused on if you want to call your game MMORPG. Otherwise call them something else.

    FYI...This game will not be DAoC II I call out vaporware!

  • manusmanus SøgnePosts: 46Member

     

     

  • manusmanus SøgnePosts: 46Member
    Originally posted by Xthos
    Originally posted by xSyngex
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by Voiidiin
    Originally posted by meddyck
    One mistake this game can't afford to make is what happened with SWTOR and GW 2. The game engine must be able to handle huge fights well with no culling (invisible players) or massive framerate drops. So yeah it's not going to have the most amazing visuals of any MMO released in the next few years. But it also can't look bad or too dated either. Graphics at about the level of WAR would work.

    I agree, i play alot of GW2 and i can't stand the culling aspect of it, why after 5-6 months they realize including 2d representations is better than invisible representations is beyond my reasoning.

    Just glad we can get a veteran like Marc Jacobs back into the RvR gameing where he knows what works (DAoC) and what does not (WAR).

    I think your right and a lot of people need to remember MJ made some great progress as well as some horrific mistakes along the way, many seem to be forgetting this.

    The question is, has he learnt from his experiences?

    (mod edit)

     

    So....He has 4 wives?

    Babylon 5 reference?

  • alexisevicalexisevic Rochester, NYPosts: 41Member
    Originally posted by Masita
    Originally posted by Hagnar
    Am I the only one that would love to see a Daoc style graphics with some improvements? I don't need much more, but please... do not choose cartoony style! 

    second that, especially concerning armor and weapon skins... sometimes it gets annoying

    Oh God, this times 1000x.  Nothing breaks the immersion of a game then cartoony graphics.  I'm hoping for somthing Age of Conan like.  And please, don't sexualize female armor.  Its just silly.  A little cleavage is fine, but no swimware. 

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