You need pretty good graphics. I'm not talking ps2 or tsw quality that stops people on low end systems playing the game. But gw2 type quality is about right.
I don't know, but I think expecting Guild Wars 2 type quality from this independant publisher might be a bit much. But this game probably won't be released for another two to three years so maybe by than that won't be impossible. Just remember, CSE will have limited funding and making great graphics takes great dollars.
To make a great game with a long shelf life you need great gameplay, great storytelling and great graphics. Graphics is probably the least of the 3, but then again it's the graphics that gives the amazing factor so it shouldnt be under valued.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I think it'd be fine with DAOC type graphics. I don't have to have the best graphics to enjoy a game. Heck look at Ultima Online, I've been subscribed to it since release despite the graphics, I still am subscribed, because it's still a good game.
As for storytelling, I don't need that. If I want a story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I don't need it in an Mmorpg.
Originally posted by Bladestrom To make a great game with a long shelf life you need great gameplay, great storytelling and great graphics. Graphics is probably the least of the 3, but then again it's the graphics that gives the amazing factor so it shouldnt be under valued.
Storytelling? In an MMO? I disagree. Storytelling implies a beginning, a middle and an end. To me an MMO should not have that. An MMO needs to be an open world where everyone has their own beggining, middle and end as determined by the player. Everquest had it right at first when they said "you're in our world now", because that's what it should be. You are in a different world, not a game with a story.
Otherwise I agree with your post great gameply trumps all and graphics are a distant last as long as they are good and do not detract from gameplay.
If the game is good I will settle for WoW release level graphics. I stop noticing this stuff couple days into the game. Smooth combat in a fight where you have hundreds of players present is MUCH more important.
I think graphics are important for any RPG (not just MMO), but not in terms of eye candy. Graphics are important in terms of customization.
For example, Ultima VI was a very good rpg and ahead of it's time not so much because of the graphics, but because of the fact that the graphics enabled the customization of the character (ie. different armor and weapon makes the avatar looked different, enabling the user to see crafting task such as baking bread, etc).
Players like to customize their toon in an rpg, no doubt about it on that one I think.
Can't speak for anyone but for me animation trumps graphics anyway. Without fluid movement polygon count and texture resolution mean jack shit. The key to smooth and fluid combat is smooth and fluid animation, not strobe light level frames of animation. Graphics mean something but don't mean everything. Crysis level graphics with minecraft level animation mean nothing. Crysis level graphics with SWTOR Ilum like performance also means nothing.
In the end its all about finding proper balance. What looks good, moves good, but also has the performance abaility to keep 100+ people on screen at once while spells/seige/melee is all happening is going to be the key.
Can't speak for anyone but for me animation trumps graphics anyway. Without fluid movement polygon count and texture resolution mean jack shit. The key to smooth and fluid combat is smooth and fluid animation, not strobe light level frames of animation. Graphics mean something but don't mean everything. Crysis level graphics with minecraft level animation mean nothing. Crysis level graphics with SWTOR Ilum like performance also means nothing.
In the end its all about finding proper balance. What looks good, moves good, but also has the performance abaility to keep 100+ people on screen at once while spells/seige/melee is all happening is going to be the key.
Sadly it appears CU will be a pvp-only game, so they can have no excuses. It needs to be able to hold an entire server in one fight or it's not good enough.
Unless this game restricts player numbers or instances the pvp, players won't be off pve-ing, levelling, questing, they will all be in pvp....all of them.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Sadly it appears CU will be a pvp-only game, so they can have no excuses. It needs to be able to hold an entire server in one fight or it's not good enough.
Unless this game restricts player numbers or instances the pvp, players won't be off pve-ing, levelling, questing, they will all be in pvp....all of them.
Well, you are wrong here. They did mention crafting and housing and I wouldn´t underestimate the importance of these features in a nichegame, that plans to focus on a player-driven economy.
I do agree though, that CSE is forced to deliver a smooth gameplay even or especially when hundres of players are coming together. A RvR-based game needs to be lagfree if its going to have any chance of succes.
Still - in my humble opinion - they shouldn´t just render graphics unimportant. Sure, the way Camelot Unchained seems to go it doesn´t need any next generations graphics and be top of that gameaspect, but it should at least still look competitive compared with other games at that time.
Originally posted by Zzulu This is a low budget MMO developed by a handful of developers. Don't worry, you're not getting anything fancy
Low budget with just a handful of developers... hmm... sounds like Daoc when it first launched. It was pretty amazing to me that they could pull off a seamless, persistent world when the big dawg (Everquest) those days was sectioned into a bunch of zones.
I wouldn't expect anything insanly top end, but id hope theres some decent details in the models and effects. I honestly dont think GW2 graphics are that great, i dont see why they wouldn't be able to match or beat them.
I wouldn't expect anything insanly top end, but id hope theres some decent details in the models and effects. I honestly dont think GW2 graphics are that great, i dont see why they wouldn't be able to match or beat them.
Not discounting your opinion, but i am curious what mmo you consider as good or excellent graphics ?
not me i enjoy ubergrfx and if my pc wont play good with uber grfx why compete with apeace of crap pc you like old and the same thing i been gaming online pvpen since UO and i want gaming to evolve not devolve
Am I the only one that would love to see a Daoc style graphics with some improvements? I don't need much more, but please... do not choose cartoony style!
Born as a berserker, I was also a hero, a bounty hunter, a paladin ,a troubador and a paladin once again during my Mmo''s experiences .. Now travelling in a galaxy looking for a new adventure
Originally posted by Hagnar Am I the only one that would love to see a Daoc style graphics with some improvements? I don't need much more, but please... do not choose cartoony style!
second that, especially concerning armor and weapon skins... sometimes it gets annoying
Many guys here seem to think that the culling issues on GW2 have anything to do with graphics or your own computer specs. They don't. It's a server issue and even if the graphics were just stick figures the culling would be there.
Great graphics with 200 players visible in the same spot can be done. It all boils to network code and bandwidth. Everything else is client-side and should be able to be tuned from the shiniest of shiny to the butt-ugly, depending on your computer specs.
Many guys here seem to think that the culling issues on GW2 have anything to do with graphics or your own computer specs. They don't. It's a server issue and even if the graphics were just stick figures the culling would be there.
Great graphics with 200 players visible in the same spot can be done. It all boils to network code and bandwidth. Everything else is client-side and should be able to be tuned from the shiniest of shiny to the butt-ugly, depending on your computer specs.
Pretty much this ^.
The problem with GW2 is almost entirely due to a poorly optimized server tech, combined slightly with a poorly optimized balance between CPU and GPU tasks. The game is still heavily CPU intensive, and as laughable as it sounds, the game has had problems in the past with culling in sPvP (yup, 16 player maps... with culling).
Afaik most of the sPvP culling issues have been fixed, but it still doesn't speak very highly of the server optomization.
Graphics are in no why more important than any MMORPG feature. Graphics really mean zero in a MMORPG anyway. We use to play them texted based and they had more depth than what we get given today. Depth, gameplay and immersion are what developer should be focused on if you want to call your game MMORPG. Otherwise call them something else.
FYI...This game will not be DAoC II I call out vaporware!
Originally posted by meddyck One mistake this game can't afford to make is what happened with SWTOR and GW 2. The game engine must be able to handle huge fights well with no culling (invisible players) or massive framerate drops. So yeah it's not going to have the most amazing visuals of any MMO released in the next few years. But it also can't look bad or too dated either. Graphics at about the level of WAR would work.
I agree, i play alot of GW2 and i can't stand the culling aspect of it, why after 5-6 months they realize including 2d representations is better than invisible representations is beyond my reasoning.
Just glad we can get a veteran like Marc Jacobs back into the RvR gameing where he knows what works (DAoC) and what does not (WAR).
I think your right and a lot of people need to remember MJ made some great progress as well as some horrific mistakes along the way, many seem to be forgetting this.
The question is, has he learnt from his experiences?
Originally posted by Hagnar Am I the only one that would love to see a Daoc style graphics with some improvements? I don't need much more, but please... do not choose cartoony style!
second that, especially concerning armor and weapon skins... sometimes it gets annoying
Oh God, this times 1000x. Nothing breaks the immersion of a game then cartoony graphics. I'm hoping for somthing Age of Conan like. And please, don't sexualize female armor. Its just silly. A little cleavage is fine, but no swimware.
Originally posted by skyexileI wouldn't expect anything insanly top end, but id hope theres some decent details in the models and effects. I honestly dont think GW2 graphics are that great, i dont see why they wouldn't be able to match or beat them.
Not discounting your opinion, but i am curious what mmo you consider as good or excellent graphics ?
I think Aions is a good, and its a much older game with less issues with people onscreen, PlanetSides 2 is heaps better. GW2 character models and textures are kinda avg, could be that their lighting isnt the best to go with it though. i think their particle effects are pretty good though.
Comments
I don't know, but I think expecting Guild Wars 2 type quality from this independant publisher might be a bit much. But this game probably won't be released for another two to three years so maybe by than that won't be impossible. Just remember, CSE will have limited funding and making great graphics takes great dollars.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I think it'd be fine with DAOC type graphics. I don't have to have the best graphics to enjoy a game. Heck look at Ultima Online, I've been subscribed to it since release despite the graphics, I still am subscribed, because it's still a good game.
As for storytelling, I don't need that. If I want a story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I don't need it in an Mmorpg.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Storytelling? In an MMO? I disagree. Storytelling implies a beginning, a middle and an end. To me an MMO should not have that. An MMO needs to be an open world where everyone has their own beggining, middle and end as determined by the player. Everquest had it right at first when they said "you're in our world now", because that's what it should be. You are in a different world, not a game with a story.
Otherwise I agree with your post great gameply trumps all and graphics are a distant last as long as they are good and do not detract from gameplay.
I think graphics are important for any RPG (not just MMO), but not in terms of eye candy. Graphics are important in terms of customization.
For example, Ultima VI was a very good rpg and ahead of it's time not so much because of the graphics, but because of the fact that the graphics enabled the customization of the character (ie. different armor and weapon makes the avatar looked different, enabling the user to see crafting task such as baking bread, etc).
Players like to customize their toon in an rpg, no doubt about it on that one I think.
Can't speak for anyone but for me animation trumps graphics anyway. Without fluid movement polygon count and texture resolution mean jack shit. The key to smooth and fluid combat is smooth and fluid animation, not strobe light level frames of animation. Graphics mean something but don't mean everything. Crysis level graphics with minecraft level animation mean nothing. Crysis level graphics with SWTOR Ilum like performance also means nothing.
In the end its all about finding proper balance. What looks good, moves good, but also has the performance abaility to keep 100+ people on screen at once while spells/seige/melee is all happening is going to be the key.
Sadly it appears CU will be a pvp-only game, so they can have no excuses. It needs to be able to hold an entire server in one fight or it's not good enough.
Unless this game restricts player numbers or instances the pvp, players won't be off pve-ing, levelling, questing, they will all be in pvp....all of them.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Well, you are wrong here. They did mention crafting and housing and I wouldn´t underestimate the importance of these features in a nichegame, that plans to focus on a player-driven economy.
I do agree though, that CSE is forced to deliver a smooth gameplay even or especially when hundres of players are coming together. A RvR-based game needs to be lagfree if its going to have any chance of succes.
Still - in my humble opinion - they shouldn´t just render graphics unimportant. Sure, the way Camelot Unchained seems to go it doesn´t need any next generations graphics and be top of that gameaspect, but it should at least still look competitive compared with other games at that time.
Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/
Low budget with just a handful of developers... hmm... sounds like Daoc when it first launched.
It was pretty amazing to me that they could pull off a seamless, persistent world when the big dawg (Everquest) those days was sectioned into a bunch of zones.
I wouldn't expect anything insanly top end, but id hope theres some decent details in the models and effects. I honestly dont think GW2 graphics are that great, i dont see why they wouldn't be able to match or beat them.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
Not discounting your opinion, but i am curious what mmo you consider as good or excellent graphics ?
Lolipops !
not me i enjoy ubergrfx and if my pc wont play good with uber grfx why compete with apeace of crap pc you like old and the same thing i been gaming online pvpen since UO and i want gaming to evolve not devolve
But I like ubergrafics, why do I have a GTX 680 then, if I don´t get ubergrafics?
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
Born as a berserker, I was also a hero, a bounty hunter, a paladin ,a troubador and a paladin once again during my Mmo''s experiences .. Now travelling in a galaxy looking for a new adventure
second that, especially concerning armor and weapon skins... sometimes it gets annoying
Many guys here seem to think that the culling issues on GW2 have anything to do with graphics or your own computer specs. They don't. It's a server issue and even if the graphics were just stick figures the culling would be there.
Great graphics with 200 players visible in the same spot can be done. It all boils to network code and bandwidth. Everything else is client-side and should be able to be tuned from the shiniest of shiny to the butt-ugly, depending on your computer specs.
Pretty much this ^.
The problem with GW2 is almost entirely due to a poorly optimized server tech, combined slightly with a poorly optimized balance between CPU and GPU tasks. The game is still heavily CPU intensive, and as laughable as it sounds, the game has had problems in the past with culling in sPvP (yup, 16 player maps... with culling).
Afaik most of the sPvP culling issues have been fixed, but it still doesn't speak very highly of the server optomization.
Graphics are in no why more important than any MMORPG feature. Graphics really mean zero in a MMORPG anyway. We use to play them texted based and they had more depth than what we get given today. Depth, gameplay and immersion are what developer should be focused on if you want to call your game MMORPG. Otherwise call them something else.
FYI...This game will not be DAoC II I call out vaporware!
Babylon 5 reference?
Oh God, this times 1000x. Nothing breaks the immersion of a game then cartoony graphics. I'm hoping for somthing Age of Conan like. And please, don't sexualize female armor. Its just silly. A little cleavage is fine, but no swimware.
I think Aions is a good, and its a much older game with less issues with people onscreen, PlanetSides 2 is heaps better. GW2 character models and textures are kinda avg, could be that their lighting isnt the best to go with it though. i think their particle effects are pretty good though.
still though, this game needs unreal 4 :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD9CPqSKjTU
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.