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Traitor Mechanic

LauraFrostLauraFrost New York, NYMember Posts: 95

 

Being a Board Gamer player, I really want to see the "Traitor Mechanic" implemented in an MMORPG or a Multi Player game.

What do I mean by the Traitor Mechanic?

In some cooperative board games where players work together to beat the game there's a mechanic which "might" make one of your team mates a traitor which his/her own goal is to sabotage your progress (for a reward). You will never know if there's one though and you cannot tell for sure who's a traitor.

The whole gaming mechanic should make this implementation logical (it doesn't make sense if we're talking about the standard dungeon crawling experience). It can fit any kind of cooperative theme/game play.

 

This mechanics gives my playing group a new kind of game play experience where you're really could end up accusing almost everyone of being a traitor and you can do something about it but you're never sure. Should we put him in jail? should we execute her? Are you a traitor? Is there a traitor?

 

Comments

  • QuirhidQuirhid TampereMember Posts: 6,221 Uncommon

    The mechanic is fascinating in a board game but I'm doubtful it would work in an RPG unless the characters are more "throwaway" than normal characters are. Even then I don't think people want to spend hours on a dungeon run just to be betrayed in the end.

    Its different when you're playing face to face with the people you know. There's no "pokerface element" when you're playing similar game on a computer.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember Posts: 3,468 Rare

    It can work in a boardgame, because boardgames are played in an environment where all the players still want to be friends when the game ends. It's very rare that a boardgame player would insult his opponent personally, make rude gestures over the playing table, or call the losing player and idiot who can't play at all and is generally a complete failure in other areas of life as well.

    In MMO there are no such restrictions, and there are players who aim to hurt other players personally. Players playing a game that has betrayals as large element would get personally attacked and hurt so much, that I think few people would enjoy playing it.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Uncommon
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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCMember Posts: 6,435 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    The mechanic is fascinating in a board game but I'm doubtful it would work in an RPG unless the characters are more "throwaway" than normal characters are. Even then I don't think people want to spend hours on a dungeon run just to be betrayed in the end. Its different when you're playing face to face with the people you know. There's no "pokerface element" when you're playing similar game on a computer.

    This summed up what I was going to say..

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCMember Posts: 6,435 Uncommon

    Another thing I would like to add to this discussion, is that gameplay like this, similar to FFAFL PvP have a after effect ripple that most aren't prepared for who request features like this. 

     

    That side effect is that people won't play PvE together with anybody they don't know within their guikd. Creates a major social issue in the MMO. People wouldn't want to be in the smaller guilds, since guilds would be the only way to get any PvE done, since you don't trust anybody.

    i played Darkfall, and it was like this pretty much. PvEer stayed quiet not to notify the gankers and griefer of any PvE group action going on, so they wouldn't mess things up. It sucks.

    in games like GW2 the community comes together to tackle PvE if they see it as rewarding of course. But in a game like the OP is requesting, you will get the opposite, aka a Darkfall setting all over again.

    image

  • LauraFrostLauraFrost New York, NYMember Posts: 95

     

    Problem is, most people are in the mindset of what you've already experience and lack the imagination of how we can think outside the box. If you imagine a new game mechanic in an already existing boring game situation/environment then by all means this is not going to work.

     

    Reminds me of when Gary Gygax and his friend were rejected by some publishers because they couldn't grasp the whole concept of "open ended" game. It didn't make sense "a game without an end? that will never work."

     

    We need more creative minds to shake all this rust and create new game experiences. I don't blame players of being unimaginative but I blame designers of catering to the "expected" and what "should be".

     

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonMember Posts: 1,269 Uncommon
    Originally posted by LauraFrost
      Being a Board Gamer player, I really want to see the "Traitor Mechanic" implemented in an MMORPG or a Multi Player game. What do I mean by the Traitor Mechanic? In some cooperative board games where players work together to beat the game there's a mechanic which "might" make one of your team mates a traitor which his/her own goal is to sabotage your progress (for a reward). You will never know if there's one though and you cannot tell for sure who's a traitor. The whole gaming mechanic should make this implementation logical (it doesn't make sense if we're talking about the standard dungeon crawling experience). It can fit any kind of cooperative theme/game play.   This mechanics gives my playing group a new kind of game play experience where you're really could end up accusing almost everyone of being a traitor and you can do something about it but you're never sure. Should we put him in jail? should we execute her? Are you a traitor? Is there a traitor?  

      I would have thought that would have been in Anarchy Online, never played it so I dont know but it certainly fits the theme of the Pen and Paper game.

     

    BTW, I have seen groups of players in Pick Up Raids who I am sure where Role Playing Traitors and deliberately trying to wipe the raid.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingMember Posts: 3,462 Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    The mechanic is fascinating in a board game but I'm doubtful it would work in an RPG unless the characters are more "throwaway" than normal characters are. Even then I don't think people want to spend hours on a dungeon run just to be betrayed in the end. Its different when you're playing face to face with the people you know. There's no "pokerface element" when you're playing similar game on a computer.

    This summed up what I was going to say..

    +1 as well. It could only work for some short break from the cooperative fun, but in the long run... Nowadays the games promote heavily the solo, every-man-for-him/herself attitude, which I find kinda sad (I always loved rpg for working together, as a party overcome anything the GM throws in our way) so I don't think it would be a good idea for an entire game.

    As for a short break it could work, there's a funny little rpg called Paranoia - I think Quirhid had the same thought, based on pokerface and throaway characters :) We played it sometimes for the fun, it has everything OP wrote: the whole party is (not so) secretly against each other, but can't openly kill because of the Computer, so it's full of sneaky tactics and backstabbing... oh, and there's no OOC :) so if you 'accidentally' shot the guy (who had some infos of you being a traitor) in the back  while the party tries to defend the camp from a massive attack, you have to explain it to the others in-character - pokerface comes handy :)

    While it was fun for a few hours in every couple of months, I can't see this could be played massively, and especially online.

  • rounnerrounner CanberraMember Posts: 637 Uncommon
    Replies are extreme and dramatic. A lobby pvp game where one of each side is a turncoat could be feasible and fun.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAMember Posts: 6,596 Rare
    Originally posted by rounner
    Replies are extreme and dramatic. A lobby pvp game where one of each side is a turncoat could be feasible and fun.

     So friendly fire rules would be in play.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"



  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,690 Rare

    I think it can work, and it may be fun. It can work in an instanced with minimal impact to guild, and progression.

    Think about it the following pve set up.

    You are matched into an instanced dungeon with a group of 5. A random player, only known to himself, is given a different quest (say, not kill the monster, but lure the players into a trap and kill them) with a suitable reward (so he get his epic drop if he complete the quest, and the boss does not die).

    The other players will be given clues of this may be happening. In fact, this can work quite well in a random PUG.

    And obviously this can also work in a pvp setting.

  • Salio69Salio69 under a rock, FLMember Posts: 428 Common
    Originally posted by LauraFrost
      Being a Board Gamer player, I really want to see the "Traitor Mechanic" implemented in an MMORPG or a Multi Player game. What do I mean by the Traitor Mechanic? In some cooperative board games where players work together to beat the game there's a mechanic which "might" make one of your team mates a traitor which his/her own goal is to sabotage your progress (for a reward). You will never know if there's one though and you cannot tell for sure who's a traitor. The whole gaming mechanic should make this implementation logical (it doesn't make sense if we're talking about the standard dungeon crawling experience). It can fit any kind of cooperative theme/game play.   This mechanics gives my playing group a new kind of game play experience where you're really could end up accusing almost everyone of being a traitor and you can do something about it but you're never sure. Should we put him in jail? should we execute her? Are you a traitor? Is there a traitor?  

    I assume you have never played EvE Online.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 In cyberspaaaaaaceMember Posts: 2,751 Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    I think it can work, and it may be fun. It can work in an instanced with minimal impact to guild, and progression. Think about it the following pve set up. You are matched into an instanced dungeon with a group of 5. A random player, only known to himself, is given a different quest (say, not kill the monster, but lure the players into a trap and kill them) with a suitable reward (so he get his epic drop if he complete the quest, and the boss does not die). The other players will be given clues of this may be happening. In fact, this can work quite well in a random PUG. And obviously this can also work in a pvp setting.

    I had the same thought. It would need a controlled environment. In a PvE +PvP instanced senario it could work really well. Aion had a something somewhat like this. I can't remember but it was a high level group vs group match where you could also fight over mobs and bosses for points or something. In the open world? I don't know. There would be a lot of factors that would have to be controlled just to make the traitor mechanic fair for both sides and still not negatively impact the both sides too much.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember Posts: 26,690 Rare
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    I think it can work, and it may be fun. It can work in an instanced with minimal impact to guild, and progression. Think about it the following pve set up. You are matched into an instanced dungeon with a group of 5. A random player, only known to himself, is given a different quest (say, not kill the monster, but lure the players into a trap and kill them) with a suitable reward (so he get his epic drop if he complete the quest, and the boss does not die). The other players will be given clues of this may be happening. In fact, this can work quite well in a random PUG. And obviously this can also work in a pvp setting.

    I had the same thought. It would need a controlled environment. In a PvE +PvP instanced senario it could work really well. Aion had a something somewhat like this. I can't remember but it was a high level group vs group match where you could also fight over mobs and bosses for points or something. In the open world? I don't know. There would be a lot of factors that would have to be controlled just to make the traitor mechanic fair for both sides and still not negatively impact the both sides too much.

    Open world is not always conducive to a lot of gameplay mechanics .. because you lose control once the number of players, and where they can go becomes too variable.

    Instances, OTOH, can be used for many types of gameplay. This is just one. I can also see:

    - stealth based gameplay

    - story based gameplay that allows you change the whole instances, instead of being static.

    - ...

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