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Is Microsoft endangering the Longevity of MMO?

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  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,894Member Uncommon

    I'm currently playing Heroes Call on Android (vid link).  For a game that plays great on a crappy rooted Kindle Fire, it's outstanding both in terms of visuals and performance.  Whether MMOs will move to tablets I cannot say, but the new kid sure has a lot going for it.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    Windows 8 is selling poorly for several reasons

    1. Most of use dont want to re-learn where the control panel or printer options is going to be.  For some reason, MS thinks it is creative when they move everything around.  It boggles my mind why they move different settings around so much when most people took the time to figure out where they were in the last OS.

     

    2. Other than touch-screen support, there is NO redeeming features about windows 8.  What will win8 give me that win7 does not?  Is it anything worth paying $100 for?  NOPE

     

    3. Microsoft refuses to pull its head out of its rear and make a gamer version of its OS.  Lets be honest, most of us gamers dont want or use half the CRAP thats slapped into the windows OS.  For the large amounts of money the engineers at MS make, you would think that at least one brainiac could have come up with a stripped down gamer OS that doesnt suck down the first gig of ram and doesnt take up a 10 gigs of space on the hard drive.

     

    To put it simply, MS has lost touch with the real world and its developers are making things designed around only their biggest clients who really dont even know what they need.  This is why we get big bloated OS's packed with features we dont want or need, 

    Actually Windows 8 is the least bloated OS yet. It just looks prettier but in fact memory management and lack of software bloat is incredible! I love windows 8 personally, out performs windows 7 in every way.

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JimmyYO
    Laziness is windows biggest ally. We don't want to learn a whole new OS so most won't give any other a chance.

    Well, I also think theres an inherent distrust in free software. Any competitors are likely free or open source downloads. And that usually means more potential headaches than a purchased, supported, standardized OS.

    Also, the average person just buys a PC with windows installed and won't ever upgrade or change that until they buy a new computer.

    Lastly, Windows works fine! Whether you are using XP 7 Vista even or 8 most people are fine with windows. It does what they want it to do, and thats all that matters. Most people don't care about the politics behind Microsoft's app store policies and market trends open source modding etc etc they just wanna browse the web, play some games, and write papers!

    image
  • SkuallSkuall UnknowPosts: 1,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talonsin3. Microsoft refuses to pull its head out of its rear and make a gamer version of its OS.  Lets be honest, most of us gamers dont want or use half the CRAP thats slapped into the windows OS.  For the large amounts of money the engineers at MS make, you would think that at least one brainiac could have come up with a stripped down gamer OS that doesnt suck down the first gig of ram and doesnt take up a 10 gigs of space on the hard drive.

     

    To put it simply, MS has lost touch with the real world and its developers are making things designed around only their biggest clients who really dont even know what they need.  This is why we get big bloated OS's packed with features we dont want or need, 

    QFT

  • GothikaboyGothikaboy SödertäljePosts: 119Member

    I think it's stupid to make any game not using advanced DirectX functionality.

    That does not mean it won't run under wine, but you can't make an official linux version running on linux, which mean you basically have to write a new client using OpenGL, which will cost a lot of money which wont make a lot of sense considering most linux users already dual boot windows to play games.

     

    TL;DR : It does not make comercial sense to develop a second client made for linux.

    Please do not hype any gam.. oh wait, nevermind... forgot what forum I was on.

  • Arathir86Arathir86 CanberraPosts: 442Member Uncommon

    Windows Hardly has a monopoly on the market, if Microsoft made a bad decision (excluding Windows 8, because thats a given) then most GAMERS would switch to Linux or some other OS.

    Windows has the advantage of being a trusted brand, despite its less than stellar decisions or customer support at times, all it takes to dethrone them is for them to make a couple of 'game-breaking' decisions and there will be some competitor there to pick on their carcass.

     

    The future, in my opinion, is Cloud Gaming, where games arent determined by the device they are designed for, but for which device you currently have handy.

    I'd say the Industry is already pretty close to the point where we can take our Desktop games on the road with us on our mobile or tablets, then when we get home, we can use our TV's or desktops to continue those same games.

    "The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kreedz

    Windows Hardly has a monopoly on the market, if Microsoft made a bad decision (excluding Windows 8, because thats a given) then most GAMERS would switch to Linux or some other OS.

    Windows has the advantage of being a trusted brand, despite its less than stellar decisions or customer support at times, all it takes to dethrone them is for them to make a couple of 'game-breaking' decisions and there will be some competitor there to pick on their carcass.

     

    The future, in my opinion, is Cloud Gaming, where games arent determined by the device they are designed for, but for which device you currently have handy.

    I'd say the Industry is already pretty close to the point where we can take our Desktop games on the road with us on our mobile or tablets, then when we get home, we can use our TV's or desktops to continue those same games.

    I disagree a lot with that first statement. It would take A LOT like Microsoft raped my baby a lot to ever get me to switch to Linux. Also, every developer would have to suddenly port all their games to Linux, and no I'm not using windows emulators just to play games if Windows still works enough to play them.

    image
  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    [quote]Originally posted by Fendel84M
    [b][quote]Actually Windows 8 is the least bloated OS yet. It just looks prettier but in fact memory management and lack of software bloat is incredible! I love windows 8 personally, out performs windows 7 in every way.[/b][/quote]

    Agreed. 99% of the "Windows 8 sucks!" crowd have never used it, they've just seen a screenshot of the tile screen and though "that looks weird and different". There is absolutely no doubt that Win8 outperforms Win7 considerably.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    /Doom

    /laugh

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon
    Actually I have been annoyed at the slowness in the merging of pc's and consoles. So much so I think PCs will win in the end,  already we are seeing smaller and smaller boxes put together able to be moved around.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gothikaboy

    I think it's stupid to make any game not using advanced DirectX functionality.

    That does not mean it won't run under wine, but you can't make an official linux version running on linux, which mean you basically have to write a new client using OpenGL, which will cost a lot of money which wont make a lot of sense considering most linux users already dual boot windows to play games.

     

    TL;DR : It does not make comercial sense to develop a second client made for linux.

    Why DirectX rather than OpenGL?  OpenGL runs on Windows, too, you know.  If you you've already made a game in DirectX, then you might not want to port it to OpenGL.  But the converse is also true:  if you've made a game in OpenGL, there's no point in porting it to DirectX.  If you haven't already made either, then why is it so stupid to start with OpenGL rather than DirectX?

    OpenGL is really only equivalent to the Direct3D portion of DirectX, as DirectX includes sound, network, and so forth.  But considering that many other platforms besides Windows have had plenty of sound and network capabilities (e.g., basically every single recent smartphone or tablet), I don't think those are the real barriers to moving away from DirectX.

    For quite a while, Direct3D was way ahead of OpenGL.  OpenGL roughly caught up to DirectX 10 only slightly before DirectX 11 released.  But today, OpenGL has caught up.  Can you name any advantages of Direct 3D 11 or 11.1 (your choice) over OpenGL 4.3?  Going back a generation, can you name any advantages of Direct 3D 10 or 10.1 (again, your choice) over OpenGL 3.3?

    Most of a game client neither knows nor cares whether you're using Direct3D or OpenGL.  Moving from one to the other does require substantial work to port some things, but most of the code would be left alone.  If Linux had a 20% market share, most games would be written in OpenGL from the start and available for both Windows and Linux.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kreedz

    The future, in my opinion, is Cloud Gaming, where games arent determined by the device they are designed for, but for which device you currently have handy.

    I'd say the Industry is already pretty close to the point where we can take our Desktop games on the road with us on our mobile or tablets, then when we get home, we can use our TV's or desktops to continue those same games.

    Streaming games over a LAN will probably find a niche, but cloud gaming over the Internet at large is unlikely to ever catch on.  It doesn't have any chance until Internet connections have enough bandwidth that ISPs aren't particularly bothered by typical customers using several TB of bandwidth per month, as before then, ISPs will throttle bandwidth on game streaming to sabotage it.

    Furthermore, cloud gaming has no chance after everyone has devices that can render the game just fine locally without needing to stream it.  Budget gaming desktops are basically there for most games, and budget gaming laptops aren't far behind.  That would relegate cloud gaming to tablets and cell phones, and even tablets will probably get the hardware capabilities needed to run most games well locally well before they get the Internet bandwidth to stream them well.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Kreedz

    Windows Hardly has a monopoly on the market, if Microsoft made a bad decision (excluding Windows 8, because thats a given) then most GAMERS would switch to Linux or some other OS.

    Windows has the advantage of being a trusted brand, despite its less than stellar decisions or customer support at times, all it takes to dethrone them is for them to make a couple of 'game-breaking' decisions and there will be some competitor there to pick on their carcass.

     

    The future, in my opinion, is Cloud Gaming, where games arent determined by the device they are designed for, but for which device you currently have handy.

    I'd say the Industry is already pretty close to the point where we can take our Desktop games on the road with us on our mobile or tablets, then when we get home, we can use our TV's or desktops to continue those same games.

    I disagree a lot with that first statement. It would take A LOT like Microsoft raped my baby a lot to ever get me to switch to Linux. Also, every developer would have to suddenly port all their games to Linux, and no I'm not using windows emulators just to play games if Windows still works enough to play them.

    It depends on what sort of mistake Microsoft makes.  If Microsoft were to declare that all future versions of Windows would be closed platforms, I think you'd see a transition happen pretty fast.  Not necessarily to Linux, but someone might make a new OS to try to steal Microsoft's Windows cash cow.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wicoa
    Actually I have been annoyed at the slowness in the merging of pc's and consoles. So much so I think PCs will win in the end,  already we are seeing smaller and smaller boxes put together able to be moved around.

    PCs are open platforms and consoles are closed platforms.  You can't merge the two.

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    until there is a bug free mmo, yes I think it is best to focus on making these steaming piles of code work on one platform. besides, as others have said, mac makes up about 10% of the market. also, ios/android don't have a prayer of running the kinds of graphics we get on PCs. finally, just take a look at the couple of MMOs that have tried to allow console to join. lol ... that is all.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZPosts: 316Member


    Originally posted by Gothikaboy
    I think it's stupid to make any game not using advanced DirectX functionality.

    I guess that makes me stupid then...

  • TwystedWizTwystedWiz Northwest, WAPosts: 172Member

    Chicken Little called, said the sky is falling...

     

    MS is not going anywhere anytime soon.  They still dominate the OS market and as much as people are "happy with their Apple computers" those people still only make up about 10% of the PC market in the US, less worldwide. 

     

    As the performance gap narrows there may be clients available for other platforms but Windows will still be the first OS any major MMO is developed for, it's where the money is, and will continue to be for the life of any MMO developed in the near term.

     

     

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwystedWiz

    Chicken Little called, said the sky is falling...

     

    MS is not going anywhere anytime soon.  They still dominate the OS market and as much as people are "happy with their Apple computers" those people still only make up about 10% of the PC market in the US, less worldwide. 

     

    As the performance gap narrows there may be clients available for other platforms but Windows will still be the first OS any major MMO is developed for, it's where the money is, and will continue to be for the life of any MMO developed in the near term.

     

     

    They sure aren't people underestimated them. This scene always brings it home for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBri-xgYvHQ or this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrPU5_lBWX4

    That movie BTW is superb if you are interested in the history of those two. Wozniak is claimed to say it's the closest thing to the truth about the whole thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lx9JsSTklI

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member

    This is like that razer tablet thing they were advertising a week or two ago. Niche product that will never truly replace PC's. I mean laptops were supposedly going to eliminate desktops altogether and we see how well that went.

    There is no point making a cross platform MMO because there isnt enough money in it to be worth the extra work. And I don't see that changing anytime soon with apple charging quadruple the price something is worth.

    Mac will continue to be "cool" with people who want to seem hip or different, but the market isn't going to change anytime soon. The only way something like this would work is if they just put a Windows OS on the new xbox. Even then I can see that being a nightmare.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is like that razer tablet thing they were advertising a week or two ago. Niche product that will never truly replace PC's. I mean laptops were supposedly going to eliminate desktops altogether and we see how well that went.

    I dunno about "eliminating desktops altogether", but you are aware, I trust, that laptops have been outselling desktops since 2008?

    They're current outselling desktops by roughly two to one.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto

     


    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is like that razer tablet thing they were advertising a week or two ago. Niche product that will never truly replace PC's. I mean laptops were supposedly going to eliminate desktops altogether and we see how well that went.

     

    I dunno about "eliminating desktops altogether", but you are aware, I trust, that laptops have been outselling desktops since 2008?

    Irrelevant, the desktop hasn't been completely replaced which is what companies have been trying to do for a long long time now. Any gamer worth their skill uses a PC as their primary, the price vs performance is still the best. If you are playing cutting edge games on a laptop, still be prepared for medium/low settings. Until a laptop is the same performance for the same price, same for tablets, desktops will remain king of gaming/MMOs. This thread was about gaming.

    I won't even get into people trying to play MMOs on their phone haha.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • BrianshoBriansho Woodbridge, VAPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon
    Microsoft kinda sticks to things, like gum sticking to the bottom of your shoe. You notice it every once in a while and it reminds you it's there.

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Irrelevant, the desktop hasn't been completely replaced which is what companies have been trying to do for a long long time now. Any gamer worth their skill uses a PC as their primary, the price vs performance is still the best. If you are playing cutting edge games on a laptop, still be prepared for medium/low settings. Until a laptop is the same performance for the same price, same for tablets, desktops will remain king of gaming/MMOs. This thread was about gaming.I won't even get into people trying to play MMOs on their phone haha.

    I'm just not sure that anyone ever suggested, predicted or hoped that laptops would "completely replace" desktops. I only ever heard predictions that they would push desktops into small niches (such as, of course, serious gaming). And I think those predictions are well on their way to coming true.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banquetto

     


    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    This is like that razer tablet thing they were advertising a week or two ago. Niche product that will never truly replace PC's. I mean laptops were supposedly going to eliminate desktops altogether and we see how well that went.

     

    I dunno about "eliminating desktops altogether", but you are aware, I trust, that laptops have been outselling desktops since 2008?

    They're current outselling desktops by roughly two to one.

    I answered that earlier in this thread:  don't confuse the rate at which devices are sold new with the rate at which they're used.  Desktops have much longer life expectancies than laptops.

    There were more new egg cartons sold this year than new houses, but that doesn't mean that everyone stopped living in houses.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,761Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banquetto

     


    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Irrelevant, the desktop hasn't been completely replaced which is what companies have been trying to do for a long long time now. Any gamer worth their skill uses a PC as their primary, the price vs performance is still the best. If you are playing cutting edge games on a laptop, still be prepared for medium/low settings. Until a laptop is the same performance for the same price, same for tablets, desktops will remain king of gaming/MMOs. This thread was about gaming.

     

    I won't even get into people trying to play MMOs on their phone haha.


     

    I'm just not sure that anyone ever suggested, predicted or hoped that laptops would "completely replace" desktops. I only ever heard predictions that they would push desktops into small niches (such as, of course, serious gaming). And I think those predictions are well on their way to coming true.

    I don't think that "doing productive work" will ever be a small niche, but it's highly probable that desktops will occupy the bulk of it for decades to come.  While it could eventually constitute a small fraction of total "computer" sales if an average person is eventually wearing 20 different "computers" on him, that would be because the rest of the market got larger, not because desktops died.

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