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Is Microsoft endangering the Longevity of MMO?

CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

Do you think that all the focus of MMO on this single platform is a good idea.

MMO are supposed to be worlds that last a long time, they're supposed to be epic journeys, a game like Everquest has managed to be a viable MMO for over 10 years now. Is putting all your eggs into the Windows basket actually a good idea? MMO are rarely multiplatform, they rarely support Windows / Linux / Mac, and with the current trend towards mobile and chrome OS, do you think it's right to keep releasing on single platforms? I'm not expecting developers to release on a tablet, since they're completely different devices, but why not target all desktops, the PC market this year shrunk by a lot, sales have been higly disappointing, Windows 8 failed to deliver.

Do you think Windows as we know it will still be as successful in a couple of years? I don't, most people seem to be happy with their Apple computers, their Ubuntu in Asia, their tablet, their smartphone, their Kindle, their E-reader, whatever they're using to consume content, many of those people can afford an expensive gaming PC but they just don't want one.

You think it's good to focus on this single platform that is getting a bit shakier by the year?

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Comments

  • MawneeMawnee Spring Hill, FLPosts: 197Member Uncommon
    Windows has been around longer than the modern MMO, and dominant nearly the entire time. I dont see it changing anytime soon. :) Though I do see MMOs branching out to other media. Android has a WoW-ish clone already.
  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    Mac users make up less than 10% of the market and Linux less than 5%, the rest is Windows. Games are mass market conveyer belt money makers, they make them for the platform that makes the most money and that is windows by a huge margin.

     

  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEPosts: 224Member Uncommon

    It's been my perception that most MMOs support Windows and Mac at release.  Now, I suppose when you include ALL the MMO games on this site, then sure, I could imagine there would be a lot of single platform games.

    That leads to the next point.  If you're a small indie MMO developer, which platform do you focus on first?  The answer is Windows because that has the most users.

    I don't think Microsoft has the influence to "endanger" the MMO market.

    Top Games Played in 2015: World of Tanks, Tera, World of Warships

  • FonclFoncl UppsalaPosts: 197Member
    Well it is kind of worrying seeing the direction Microsoft are going with windows 8. They have a lot of power through controlling windows which pretty much everyone uses, if they make some greedy decisions things can go downhill quickly. It does seem like they are looking at how Apple did it with the iphone and moving in that direction with a more closed system and an "app store" which doesn't bode well for the future imo.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    one day you'll be able to play mmos cross-platform on your scientific calculator...

    image

  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEPosts: 224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foncl
    Well it is kind of worrying seeing the direction Microsoft are going with windows 8. They have alot of power through controlling windows which pretty much everyone uses, if they make some greedy decisions things can go downhill quickly. It does seem like they are looking at how Apple did it with the iphone and moving in that direction with a more closed system and an "app store" which doesn't bode well for the future imo.

    The "App Store" really only comes into play for the WinRT version of Windows 8. Basically, we're talking about tablets and phones.  Windows 8 Desktop edition allows you to install and use any compatible software you wish, just as you have done with previous versions.

    The truly important part of Windows 8 will become fully realized when the new version of the XBox is released, later this year (hopefully). It will basically allow developers to write WinRT apps and deploy them to PCs, phones, and XBox.

    EDIT: Note, when I say "XBox", I mean XBox Live, of course.

    Top Games Played in 2015: World of Tanks, Tera, World of Warships

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Putting this part in small text - it's not as on topic as the rest but I think still part of the thought process.

    All it's going to take is one well publicized study about small devices giving off cancer for people to drop those machines like last year's magazines or the networks themselves - you can't get away from them even if you don't use the devices. Or,  they will wake up to the GPS trackers we are all carrying and say enough is enough. I don't want everyone to know where I go all the time, including my government. Few people talk about that - they tried to instute an id card all over the US, people said no, then did you notice GPS came onto the scene... oogedy boogedy. Already criminals have been caught because of cell phone usage or leaving a cell somewhere even though it was a disposable one. People are becoming indoctrinated to NEED these devices for daily life. Take a quick poll and ask people in your friendly circle who would give up their cell.

    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gps-phone.htm

    Even without a GPS receiver, your cell phone can provide information about your location. A computer can determine your location based on measurements of your signal, such as:

    • Its angle of approach to the cell towers
    • How long it takes the signal to travel to multiple towers
    • The strength of your signal when it reaches the towers

    About 7 years ago I ran a scenario on a forum - the future of the internet - person gets angry, posts on social media their mood change and possibly their source of anger - red alerts go out - citizen en route to commit crime - follow up - person is then tracked via GPS in car or phone - police know exactly where person is at all times - police know exactly what person is buying at all times because they use their electronic payment method - person buys 2 rounds of ammo - red flags go off and person is picked up and arrested. I see this people. I see all the social media leading to determining which of us citizens are dangerous and when we must be pinned to the ground. Plenty will be caught in red flags that are false positives - if you friend 15 pot heads even though you don't smoke weed, don't you think when they investigate your name is going to come up as a "circle of friends" to research when tracking down the smuggling participants or the dealers and buyers. If you don't think that your friends can be used to implicate you when they do something wrong you aren't even seeing what the whole reason to track people is. It's not for you to make meaningful connections, it's for you to feel comfortable and expose your inner thoughts because your profile is "private". Any government not looking at social media are fools, that is a goldmine just waiting to be exploited. Even the facebook creator once commented that people giving him information were .. go read it. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/14/facebook_trust_dumb/

    PCs are going nowhere. More people are working online and they will get the full setup. Small businesses are growing, people are tired of working for other people. People use Office software and bookkeeping software to run those small businesses and standard printers. No sir e bob, the big computer is not going to vanish out of homes.

    Apple is still vanity. I work in IT, the only people that like Apple are graphic designers, everyone else wants a PC. They like that the parts are interchangeable and they know how they work inside and there are so many more parts available to fit them. We all know Apple is overpriced too, worse, they don't even try to support an American economy - they send their production overseas. These are nasty topics for some people, to decrease your production cost and not pass that onto the consumer is greedy. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=3&hp& Especially people looking at their own country having an average unemployment rate around 8%.

     

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greenreen
    /snip

    Think that's scary? Followed a thread over on overclockers forum last week where a guy had his phone stolen and got it back through an app. It let him track the guys exact location, take photos, video and record conversations. Copied the whole contact and log information from the new sim the theif put in and ultimately ended up with an arrest and more photos being taken of the coppers as they arrested the guy... all from his laptop at home lol http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18483866

    Managed to make the Telegraph newspaper too.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,401Member Uncommon

    When I think of "mobile" or "console", I think of "limited capabilities". MMOs were solely developed for the PC simply because it's the only platform that can handle the complexity and depth of a real MMO.

    I really don't understand Mac users. Mac is 100% genius marketing. A Mac is not only extremely expensive, but is also incompatible with almost everything. It's like thinking an Alienware is better because it's an Alienware. In fact, the components for an Alienware can be purchased from entities like newegg and MicroCenter for 1/4th the price.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    OP, no I dont. I think Microsoft attempted to make an OS for PCs and mobile devices and failed. Next windows will have 2 versions, one of the PC/laptop and one mobile. Its a learning process and as usual, they are learning the hard way...Windows Me and Vista come to mind.

    It seems they like to make two really good OS's, then a bad one, then 2 good ones, a bad one.

    95, 98 good

    me, bad

    xp, 7 good

    8, bad

    yes I am leaving out NT and 2004 for a reason.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Do you think that all the focus of MMO on this single platform is a good idea.

    MMO are supposed to be worlds that last a long time, they're supposed to be epic journeys, a game like Everquest has managed to be a viable MMO for over 10 years now. Is putting all your eggs into the Windows basket actually a good idea? MMO are rarely multiplatform, they rarely support Windows / Linux / Mac, and with the current trend towards mobile and chrome OS, do you think it's right to keep releasing on single platforms? I'm not expecting developers to release on a tablet, since they're completely different devices, but why not target all desktops, the PC market this year shrunk by a lot, sales have been higly disappointing, Windows 8 failed to deliver.

    Do you think Windows as we know it will still be as successful in a couple of years? I don't, most people seem to be happy with their Apple computers, their Ubuntu in Asia, their tablet, their smartphone, their Kindle, their E-reader, whatever they're using to consume content, many of those people can afford an expensive gaming PC but they just don't want one.

    You think it's good to focus on this single platform that is getting a bit shakier by the year?

    If Microsoft has provided a good platform for MMORPGs and no one else has, then the problem isn't Microsoft.

    What other platforms are there that new MMORPGs really should support?  The only platform besides Windows that supports the latest graphics APIs is Linux, which has something like 1% market share.  If Linux had double-digit market share, you'd probably see a ton of MMORPGs supporting it.

    Now, that could change, of course.  Google Android will probably get there when the hardware does--and the rumor is that Imagination is going to release a proper modern GPU in their new generation of hardware that should launch any day now.  Apple might eventually decide to enter the modern world with Mac OS X and/or iOS.  I don't know what graphics APIs the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 will feature, but I'd guess that they'll be equivalent to the modern desktop ones.

    There's also the problem of closed platforms greatly restricting updates and demanding a share of the revenue, which is why MMORPGs will probably never be common on consoles or iOS.

    Will there eventually be a lot of MMORPGs for Android?  Excluding browser-based junk, I mean.  Maybe.

    -----

    Don't confuse the rate at which form factors sell new with the rate at which they're used.  There won't be that many new houses built this year in a lot of places, but that doesn't mean people will no longer live in houses.

    The drop in PC sales is entirely attributable to people keeping old PCs for longer than they used to.  The desktop I built in 2009 is still very nice today.  Indeed, it works better today than any previous computer I had did the day I bought it.  Laptops are very close to being good enough that you can buy one and keep it for a long time without missing out on much, too; Intel Haswell and AMD Kabini will provide that for some market share segments later this year, and AMD Kaveri might clean up most of the rest around the end of the year.

    There are tons of people still using a desktop that is at least five years old.  How many five-year-old tablets are still in active use?  Any tablet you can buy today will be woefully obsolete inside of six months.  AMD Temash will help on the Windows 8 side, and some new ARM Cortex A15 chips with new generation graphics will do a lot for Android.  But they'll probably still need some years of Moore's Law scaling before performance is really good enough to keep a tablet for several years.  Cell phones are years behind tablets, even.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    Believe me, developer will port your game if there is a market. 

    Developer don't do it now because they dont' want to waste resource on something that don't make them money.

    And you should be more worried about your mmorpg get shutdown before windows miracly disappear and get replaced by another OS.

     

  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon

    No empire lasts forever and that will prove true to Windows as well. It is very likely that Microsoft is in its twilight years. The only benefit Microsoft has is years of lock in legacy systems especially at the corporate level. Microsoft Office used to be one of the big tie downs but with OpenOffice and Google Documents that is no longer really true anymore. The Microsoft internet explorer and Microsoft Outlook lost market dominence years ago. With lack luster appeal for Windows 8 the entire Microsoft empire is uniquely vulnerable.

     

    Expect to see a serious challenge from Google Chrome in the near future. All Google would need to do is market a little harder and get boxes into stores and they would grab market share quick. Google has the money and the prestige to challenge Microsoft and beat them at their own game. Also if google was really smart they would open a gaming division as well. Ironically the only thing tying me to Windows is the games.

     

    Mozzila will also be launching a Free OS later in the year that could change a lot of things. Firefox the OS has been years in the planning and should be of decent quality. Using a Free OS would knock $100 off the cost of building a new computer. Dumping windows would be a huge advantage for manufacturers competing in the under $500 PC market. Many people who were hesitent to buy a LINUX PC would migrate effortlessly to a Firefox based PC since they have been using Mozzila's products for years already.

     

    Really it would not take much to cause Windows to lose half its market share in the next few years because Microsoft has been coasting on its past for more than a decade there is really no legitimate reason to stick with them anymore. All of this could combine to create a perfect storm that unseats Microsoft. If this happened it would be a Black Swan for the gaming industry. Those that adapted to the new post Microsoft reality would become the new market leaders. They better watch this one closely.

  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by Kabaal

    Mac users make up less than 10% of the market and Linux less than 5%, the rest is Windows. Games are mass market conveyer belt money makers, they make them for the platform that makes the most money and that is windows by a huge margin.

     

    +1

    [/thread]

    Also, not sure if you have seen the Windows 8, but it looks closer to a Mobile interface. It's not something that is going away or a dying fad, it's just adapting to the times.

     

    Originally posted by Sijjistoryus

    When I think of "mobile" or "console", I think of "limited capabilities". MMOs were solely developed for the PC simply because it's the only platform that can handle the complexity and depth of a real MMO.

    I really don't understand Mac users. Mac is 100% genius marketing. A Mac is not only extremely expensive, but is also incompatible with almost everything. It's like thinking an Alienware is better because it's an Alienware. In fact, the components for an Alienware can be purchased from entities like newegg and MicroCenter for 1/4th the price.

    What the....? Macs are probably one of the most expensive computers you can buy out there that isn't custom made. Any important programs to any industry are cross platform or have the same functionality in a different program. Mac users buy Macs because they don't care about the functionality Windows or Linux allows you to access. It really could bother them less to do some things Windows allows you to do.

    People don't buy Alienware because it's better than everyone else. Alienware is like Mac, you buy it for the brand recognition and the customer service.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,468Member Uncommon

    Windows 8 is selling poorly for several reasons

    1. Most of use dont want to re-learn where the control panel or printer options is going to be.  For some reason, MS thinks it is creative when they move everything around.  It boggles my mind why they move different settings around so much when most people took the time to figure out where they were in the last OS.

     

    2. Other than touch-screen support, there is NO redeeming features about windows 8.  What will win8 give me that win7 does not?  Is it anything worth paying $100 for?  NOPE

     

    3. Microsoft refuses to pull its head out of its rear and make a gamer version of its OS.  Lets be honest, most of us gamers dont want or use half the CRAP thats slapped into the windows OS.  For the large amounts of money the engineers at MS make, you would think that at least one brainiac could have come up with a stripped down gamer OS that doesnt suck down the first gig of ram and doesnt take up a 10 gigs of space on the hard drive.

     

    To put it simply, MS has lost touch with the real world and its developers are making things designed around only their biggest clients who really dont even know what they need.  This is why we get big bloated OS's packed with features we dont want or need, 

  • troublmakertroublmaker St. George''s, NFPosts: 337Member

    The gap is more and more getting bridged between tablet and laptop, and soon the bridge wil be made between PC and tablet/laptop.

    So there's this game called Wargame:European Escalation.  It is an RTS game that requires a fairly decent system to run.  The game runs on an UltraBook which is a touch screen laptop.  It runs it well.  Presumably you could run any and all MMOs on the market on this touch screen laptop that is truthfully just an expensive ($1500) laptop.

    With Windows 8 trying to get into touch technology it won't be too long before computers become just powerful tablets.

    It's Mac and Linux who are the problem.  They're not taking any riskes and not looking to move forward with anything.  They're just using the same safe systems they've been using for a decade.

    Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube:

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    My thoughts are that if you want 90% roughly of home computer uses to be able to run your product, then windows is the way to go.

     

    The only platform that will unseat microsoft will have the ability to run programs build for microsoft, it doesnt exist yet, and at this point it wont matter, because it will be able to run everything that is made for windows.

    This is the only way microsoft is going to be unseated as the go to pc platform.  The rest will appeal to nice crowds and offer skety support and compatability.

     

    So untill theres a solid OS thats able to run everything that can be run on windows with no issue, mocrosoft has a pretty good hold on the market.

     

    If we are implying that handhelds will destroy the PC market, ill be the last one to go kicking and screaming.  Love desktops, hate gaming on tiny devices, even if they are well build and specifically aimed at providing a good gaming experience...

     

  • TheAncientTheAncient KirkcaldyPosts: 67Member

    Is Microsoft endangering the Longevity of MMO?

     

    Hardly, and why would they?

    The Windows market will not collapse overnight and if it does and wont be because MS wanted it to. That aside if other hardware/software combos came more to the fore that will not be because of MS but because of consumer driven buying pushed by hardware companies such as the likes of Intel, Apple, Samsung, etc. Markets generaly adapt, so software houses will do the same and either release multi-platform MMOs or go with the market leader albeit Android based, Apple, or MS etc.

    Seriously I wouldn't worry about it. The only thing that will kill MMOs will be consumers.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    It's hard to imagine the world will ever change until suddenly one day you realize it has.

    I don't think Windows is the weak spot in the whole chain - the question is whether tablets are going to displace desktops as the primary home computer.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    2. Other than touch-screen support, there is NO redeeming features about windows 8.  What will win8 give me that win7 does not?  Is it anything worth paying $100 for?  NOPE

     

    3. Microsoft refuses to pull its head out of its rear and make a gamer version of its OS.  Lets be honest, most of us gamers dont want or use half the CRAP thats slapped into the windows OS.  For the large amounts of money the engineers at MS make, you would think that at least one brainiac could have come up with a stripped down gamer OS that doesnt suck down the first gig of ram and doesnt take up a 10 gigs of space on the hard drive.

     

    To put it simply, MS has lost touch with the real world and its developers are making things designed around only their biggest clients who really dont even know what they need.  This is why we get big bloated OS's packed with features we dont want or need, 

    2)  Faster boot times, and on some future CPU architectures, longer battery life.

    3)  Given the choice between a normal version of Windows 8 and a cut down version that lost a lot of its capabilities for the same price, which would you choose?

    It costs a pro-rated $5 or so to get the amount of system memory that Windows 8 wants to use by itself.  Even if Microsoft could make a new version of Windows that used less memory, by the time it launched, memory would be cheaper yet.  Why bother?

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rossboss

    People don't buy Alienware because it's better than everyone else. Alienware is like Mac, you buy it for the brand recognition and the customer service.

    If you want a high end gaming laptop, your choices are Alienware, Clevo, and sometimes MSI, depending on how they feel about that year's hardware.  Particular details of what hardware you want may rule out one or more of those, as well.

    For a while, if you wanted an 11" laptop that wasn't completely awful at gaming, Alienware was your only option.  Today, Clevo is the only option.

    For pre-built consumer desktops, the most common reason to buy whatever brand is not knowing any better.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Believe me, developer will port your game if there is a market. 

    Developer don't do it now because they dont' want to waste resource on something that don't make them money.

    And you should be more worried about your mmorpg get shutdown before windows miracly disappear and get replaced by another OS.

    While there's a lot of truth to that, there's also the question of what platforms can handle an MMORPG.  If there were a million people who wanted to play Guild Wars 2 on an iPad, that doesn't mean ArenaNet would be able to make it happen.  Or to take a more extreme case, substitute SNES for iPad.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by troublmaker

    So there's this game called Wargame:European Escalation.  It is an RTS game that requires a fairly decent system to run.  The game runs on an UltraBook which is a touch screen laptop.  It runs it well.  Presumably you could run any and all MMOs on the market on this touch screen laptop that is truthfully just an expensive ($1500) laptop.

    If it runs well on an ultrabook, then it doesn't require a fairly decent system to run.

    Ultrabook doesn't mean touch-screen laptop.  It means stupidly thin laptop running a very expensive ULV Intel CPU.

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    Laziness is windows biggest ally. We don't want to learn a whole new OS so most won't give any other a chance.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Novusod

    Expect to see a serious challenge from Google Chrome in the near future. All Google would need to do is market a little harder and get boxes into stores and they would grab market share quick. Google has the money and the prestige to challenge Microsoft and beat them at their own game. Also if google was really smart they would open a gaming division as well. Ironically the only thing tying me to Windows is the games.

    Well yes, the reason so many games are Windows-only is that they use DirectX, which is Windows-only.  It's made by Microsoft, and given away for "free", with the idea being that any games made using it will only run on Windows, so everyone will have to buy Windows to play games.  Through DirectX (or more specifically, Direct3D), Microsoft has played a major role in pushing graphics API capabilities forward.

    Google Chrome means you're stuck in a browser, and that means you can't offload much to a video card.  The reasons why that is a problem for games should be obvious.  It might not stay that way forever, but Google Chrome is a long way from being viable for gaming, unless you mean Solitaire.

    A number of other platforms are much closer.  OpenGL 4.3 has roughly caught up to Direct3D 11.1, so any platforms that support it can roughly match Windows for graphics capabilities.  At the moment, though, that only means Windows and Linux.  Apple could add Mac OS X to that list any time they decided to write drivers for it, though.

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