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How do the founder packs hurt you?

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  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by nilden

    Let's just dive right in to paid beta, cash shops, and microtransactions. Let's all be real and call a pre-purchace for beta what it is. The only way I would be cool with a cash shop is if EVERYTHING in it was availibe via in-game means as well. If you want to sell xp boots and other time saving things that would aid more casual people go nuts. If I see some awesome flaming cloak or mount on the cash shop there has to be a way to get it from playing the actual game.

    Sadly all these greedy, lazy, companies want is to sell you a 25$ sparkle pony and have everyone clicking in anticipation.

    A better question would be how is the founders pack helping the game?

    lol its helping fund the servers. Answer the OP question, how does it hurt YOU?

    um actually it funds nothing. before a game goes live in any form (alpha/beta/gold) the server housing is already paid for in advanced. its one of the requirements from hosting providers to be paid upto a month inadvance before any data is "active"

    so 1000 people paying 200usd for the hero pack pays for nothing but the management team to go to vegas and well what happens stays there.. the only time this is remotely different is when you deal with indy teams who have super small budgets and only pay for server bandwith once a month.. (like old pirate servers) but even still the founder pack wouldnt be paying for that, in this case. 

     

    if it was.... well i would be more worried that the game isnt going to be finished and you are infact paying 20-200usd for a pre-alpha then..

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Stamps a bit more.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    We are talking about luxury extras here, not basics that everyone needs access to (fruit) which will be affected by normal economics likke supply and demand etc.

     A better analagy is a cinema that allows people to go in free, but to cover the cost of allow all those people going in free they are offerering leather seats at the back with services.  Now we have people going in to the cinema and watching the latest films for free but whining loudly that its not fair that they cant get services.  I would say for god sake enjoy the film you are getting for free and stoip looking over your shoulder at what other people have.

     Spot on. What they are offering is incentives for people to invest early in the game. It's not just those items that you are getting, you are also getting in-game currency to spend later, along with the listed exclusive items for founder packs, which accounts for the value of the packs.

    The game is 100% playable for free, yet theres all the self entitled whinging going on that people who pay get premium services. Well duh. How do you think F2P games are going to work? If there is nothing to buy, they make no money, and there is no game. People on here need to stop being so incredibly dumb.

    Personally I would have prefered a B2P model so all these cheapskates who have no intention of spending any money at all can just bugger off.

    $200 up front before you even had the chance to play the game, is not an investment. It is a gamble. You hope that the game ends up interesting enough for you to use those items.

    But how many games that sounded great on paper during development turned out to be buggy and released prematurely?

    They are just selling you a $ 200 promise. This is nice for an indie company that has trouble getting financial backing for a great idea that they want to turn into a game. But for a major games company it is nothing but a (strangely effective) way to get money before they have to deliver.

    My problem with this? I really wished those big gamescompanies would stop trying to cash in by dangling popular ip's in front of gamers' eyes and then sell a promise.

    But instead start delivering games first which then are received so good that we will shell out our cash without having to gamble based on a promise.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    We are talking about luxury extras here, not basics that everyone needs access to (fruit) which will be affected by normal economics likke supply and demand etc.

     A better analagy is a cinema that allows people to go in free, but to cover the cost of allow all those people going in free they are offerering leather seats at the back with services.  Now we have people going in to the cinema and watching the latest films for free but whining loudly that its not fair that they cant get services.  I would say for god sake enjoy the film you are getting for free and stoip looking over your shoulder at what other people have.

     Spot on. What they are offering is incentives for people to invest early in the game. It's not just those items that you are getting, you are also getting in-game currency to spend later, along with the listed exclusive items for founder packs, which accounts for the value of the packs.

    The game is 100% playable for free, yet theres all the self entitled whinging going on that people who pay get premium services. Well duh. How do you think F2P games are going to work? If there is nothing to buy, they make no money, and there is no game. People on here need to stop being so incredibly dumb.

    Personally I would have prefered a B2P model so all these cheapskates who have no intention of spending any money at all can just bugger off.

    $200 up front before you even had the chance to play the game, is not an investment. It is a gamble. You hope that the game ends up interesting enough for you to use those items.

    But how many games that sounded great on paper during development turned out to be buggy and released prematurely?

    They are just selling you a $ 200 promise. This is nice for an indie company that has trouble getting financial backing for a great idea that they want to turn into a game. But for a major games company it is nothing but a (strangely effective) way to get money before they have to deliver.

    True, but its still optional as it does not affect ME as a player who will not buy it, so its a non issue, e.g I dont get angry because someone else has something that i cant have.  To go back to the cinema analagy, they are paying for the leather seat before they know how good the film is - thats their choice, i still get to see the film for free regardless.

    If the free seats were made of brick and had poor line of sight that would be a different story (and some bad cash shops/mmorgs do go for brick seats (psst SWTOR)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,538Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    We are talking about luxury extras here, not basics that everyone needs access to (fruit) which will be affected by normal economics likke supply and demand etc.

     A better analagy is a cinema that allows people to go in free, but to cover the cost of allow all those people going in free they are offerering leather seats at the back with services.  Now we have people going in to the cinema and watching the latest films for free but whining loudly that its not fair that they cant get services.  I would say for god sake enjoy the film you are getting for free and stoip looking over your shoulder at what other people have.

     Spot on. What they are offering is incentives for people to invest early in the game. It's not just those items that you are getting, you are also getting in-game currency to spend later, along with the listed exclusive items for founder packs, which accounts for the value of the packs.

    The game is 100% playable for free, yet theres all the self entitled whinging going on that people who pay get premium services. Well duh. How do you think F2P games are going to work? If there is nothing to buy, they make no money, and there is no game. People on here need to stop being so incredibly dumb.

    Personally I would have prefered a B2P model so all these cheapskates who have no intention of spending any money at all can just bugger off.

    $200 up front before you even had the chance to play the game, is not an investment. It is a gamble. You hope that the game ends up interesting enough for you to use those items.

    But how many games that sounded great on paper during development turned out to be buggy and released prematurely?

    They are just selling you a $ 200 promise. This is nice for an indie company that has trouble getting financial backing for a great idea that they want to turn into a game. But for a major games company it is nothing but a (strangely effective) way to get money before they have to deliver.

    True, but its still optional as it does not affect ME as a player who will not buy it, so its a non issue, e.g I dont get angry because someone else has something that i cant have.  To go back to the cinema analagy, they are paying for the leather seat before they know how good the film is - thats their choice, i still get to see the film for free regardless.

    If the free seats were made of brick and had poor line of sight that would be a different story (and some bad cash shops/mmorgs do go for brick seats (psst SWTOR)

    I realised that I didn't explain my problem with this, so I edited my post to add my reason.

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Stamps a bit more.

    Look here young whipper snapper!! Back in my day we paid this thing called a subscription and didn't get milked like cows by NONE of this ere cash shop hugga-ma-lu. We all got along just fine and had innovative games not just WoW cloner-a-ma-jigs.

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    Hehe and i did too, until I looked back and reaised I had paid Blizzard over £600 in subs, and thats just to get the privilege to start the game up!  <<Mugged

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Why does it seem like theres a lot of people so incredibly butt hurt over the founder's packs? You don't have to buy it, I really don't get it.

    Edit: Fixed a mispelling thanks to a concerned user.

    Well let me preface this post by saying that I personally did not like what Cryptic did with the Champions or Star Trek universes in their games. I also felt that STO in particular suffered badly from its developers worrying more about quickly recouping their investment and turning a profit, rather than staying anywhere near true to the franchise they were using or making a game that was fun. This also meant they focused more on creating new content for the cash shop rather than creating a reasonable amount of new "free" content in what at the time was a subscriber based game. And judging by how angry I remember people being on these and other forums back then many others felt the same way I did.

    So that baggage right there is most likely what is driving the outcry over the founder packs. A bunch of people who feel they were burnt previously by Cryptic are thinking "Oh great those bastards are at it again."

     

    Now for me personally as a self labeled "Cryptic Hater", I'm not sure if these accusations are fair. Cryptic is selling some exclusive content that isn't needed to enjoy the game, and giving the rest of the game out gratis. I don't really see a problem. Doesn't harm me in the slightest. And though I haven't played the game yet, just from what I've seen in game play videos I think this game has the potential to make me hang up my "Cryptic Hating" spurs. Have to wait and see how things go at launch.

     

    OK there's the sugar coated "reasonable" bit. Now onto the tinfoil hatted "doom and gloom" portion of the post.

     

    Funnily enough however I think there may actually be someone who could be hurt by the $200 founder pack. And that someone is Cryptic themselves. Let me explain. First off I think what has made the Neverwinter brand name so popular isn't the actual D&D game world, but the fiction novels that were created in that setting. And the character who is arguably the most beloved from these novels is Drizzt Do'Urden. So by that logic the drow race is probably the most desirable feature of the game to many people. I feel that Cryptic hanging an exclusive $200 price tag on the drow race certainly has the potential to bring in some quick cash up front, but I also feel such an action has far greater potential to piss Neverwinter fans off, and lose them what would have otherwise been happy customers. And if at some time Cryptic does allow another way for people to gain access to the exclusive Drow race, I imagine that will spark outrage among the founders pack purchasers. And since Cryptic did something quite similar with some excluive ships in STO I don't feel we can safely discount the idea they could do the same with Neverwinter.

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  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    Yup forgetting the price for the moment I agree that the most attractice part of the package is access to dark elf elements, and if that was accessable later then it would be an insult to the buyers of the 199.99 pack.  If I could afford it, I would be looking at it as an 'early access' pack to the dark elf which would probably not be enough to tempt me.

    Getting some guarantee that this content would remain unique would be a much better focus for people concerned with this pack.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Why does it seem like theres a lot of people so incredibly butt hurt over the founder's packs? You don't have to buy it, I really don't get it.

    Edit: Fixed a mispelling thanks to a concerned user.

    Several reasons: -

    1)  The entire premise of founder packs and the pricing scheme in this case in particular feels entirely mercenary.    

     2) They indicate that the founder pack represents a 'cash-shop' value of double or triple the cover price.  The company sets all of these prices and can massage them to create any impression they choose to.  If I was being kind I would call these advertised 'savings' rather tenuous.  The real value of the founder pack is whatever you feel it is worth, and that for me is $0.         

    3) It is the thin end of the wedge.  If the trend towards founder packs (and founders packs at hugely inflated prices) is successful a company out there will soon decide to add real in-game advantages rather than simple fluff.  

    4) Finally you are buying blind.  Admittedly we all often do that with games; but we know within limits what we are getting.  We know roughly what a game will be like, and we know roughly what the market-set price will be.  Founder's packs operate within a monopoly.  The developer can set whatever price they choose because there is nowhere else for the players to shop (of course thay can leave the game).  And what they get for that money has never really been established in the market place, there is no measure of value for money.  

    But if people want to spend their hard earned cash on them then good luck to them.  

  • DakirnDakirn Kansas City, MOPosts: 374Member Uncommon

    A lot of people are forgetting the 750,000 Astral Diamonds that you get with the $200.

     

    Normally you'll have to do invocations in-game (at a rest shrine every hour and get lucky to get 250-1500 astral diamonds), or you'll have to buy ZEN (PW currency) and trade them for Astral Diamonds via the interface in the game (it's a store, like in GW2, so the price will fluctuate based on demand).

     

    Almost everything cosmetic or time saving costs Astral Diamonds.  This weekend, I changed the look of a chainmail tunic to look like another one and it cost almost 14,000 astral diamonds.

     

    When you get level 20, your first mount is 1 gold in-game currency or a special one for 168,000 Astral Diamonds.  The training for the level 40 mount cost over 400,000 Astral Diamonds.  Level 60 mount training cost over 4 MILLION Astral Diamonds.  Level 60 special skin mounts cost 2 million+ Astral Diamonds.

     

    The companions that were available (essentially pets that level up, you can equip and fight for you) cost 98,000 Astral Diamonds for a click item to get either a random Ghost or Hawk.

     

    When you send a companion to train, it takes RL minutes depending on what level they are. You can spend Astral Diamonds to make their training instant.

     

    And the biggest use of Astral Diamonds...

     

    The in-game Auction House runs on Astral Diamonds and NOT the in-game gold/silver/copper currency.

     

    This means if you find an item you want to sell on the auction hall, you post it for Astral Diamonds and not gold/silver/platinum.

     

    As far as a game economy goes, those who spend money to get Astral Diamonds or the Founders are going to have a pretty good head start.  You can also trade Astral Diamonds for ZEN to buy stuff from the C-Store.

     

    I have a feeling once inflation kicks in, equipment on the AH is going to be pretty expensive Astral Diamond wise and the best tradable equipment will be many thousands of Astral Diamonds.

     

    So I guess after the free mount, the free companion, the other fluff and the Astral Diamonds it could well be worth over $500 of ZEN.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

    I already paid for my basic cable! Why should HBO cost extra?!

    Even better, I have an antenna, why should I pay for cable when my broadcast TV is free?! Greedy cash grab.

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