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Item Decay is the bullet that must be bitten.

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  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,913Member Uncommon

    Any mechanism that takes items out of circulation prevents excess items from clogging the economy.  I agree that item decay is one such mechanism.

     

    However, I've never understood why sandboxers have such a strong dislike for items that soulbound on pickup or equip.  What makes item decay so great but BOE so terrible when they achieve the same thing?

     

    intended as an honest question, not flame bait


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member
    Op;the idea of decay in general is a good idea but implementing it might be a problem,unless decaay also affect pve raid?ok raid boss as all kind of decay,does it mean sometime the horde as to fix the raid boss gear while allie (or vice versa)come prevent your group !what is the incentive?this means this would happen in between real raid?this have a big feel of gw2 wvw?as most playing gw2wvww know !faction imbalance be it in number or player skill is a huge issue!will they (arenanet)need to balance action?decay would cause more issue then fix I believe.
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    If you answered yes to all three (or maybe just 2), then there is only one solution.  Item Decay. 

     No. that is YOUR solution.

    Giving items to friends has no tie to item decay...at all.

    Crafting being worth something does not require item decay, it requires being able to craft more than just armor/weapons but also VANITY ITEMS and/or ITEM SKINS for new looks, and a large amount of consumables...why do you HAVE to create brand new armor? Why dont make a game that allows a player to have many different "style" tabs, so they can take their CURRENT armor and apply a new look on it a bunch of times to they can run around with different looks? I know I know, that requires thinking outside of the tiny box the genre has placed us into.

    As for a functioning economy...all will be ruined by gold sellers, item decay has nothing to do with it, in fact, item decay will only make gold sellers more money because people will be needing to buy that uber leet sword of burn your face off every month.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • AlcuinAlcuin Broken State, CAPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Agree w OP

    I would add that enchantments need to decay as well. More powerful magic items would be up to hold More enchantments and hold them longer. Enchanting becomes a necessary trade skill too...

    _____________________________
    "Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Item decay can suck, but in a game like classic UO, item decay/repair, and the use of a lot of expendable items that are crafted fueled vendors and crafters, while the people that wanted nothing to do with it could make enough to afford to just buy what they needed.

     

    No one was hampered imo, by the system.  If you enjoyed crafting, you could do so and not do much else, if you wished, be a crafter/merchant, and nearly all forms of crafting were useful.  People that hated crafting, just pvp'd or did pve and bought what they wanted from people, if they needed more.

     

    I like to play all aspects of a game, pve, pvp, and harvest/craft.  It breaks things up, and I go do what I feel like, so I am not doing the same thing all the time.  All of those combined, with non-instanced housing are what made games like classic UO still a favorite of many people.

     

    Some other games have had good systems also, but ones with no decay, or bland/useless harvesting/crafting, I get bored with very quickly anymore.  Before I played Rift, I had never played a MMO less than 1 year, everything seems to evolved into quest hubs, and daily quests for the most part....With bland crafting/harvesting.

     

    I do not mind a grind, but when something comes too easy in a MMO, it doesn't mean much, from my perspective.  I know a lot of people that have posted in this thread are of the, I play 10 games at a time, play f2p games for a week/month, then move on and love it....So obviously the OP was not talking to you, since you do not stick in a game long enough for even a item to decay, if it did.  I think the OP's target is the non-mmo hopper.

     

    Before you take offense to that, as many of you have said, who is someone else to tell you how to play or what to enjoy, which is true.  Just seems pointless to argue this, if you are a serial game jumper.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member
    Putting a decayon all added item,like gem enchant etc now I agree.like if you have addition (leather boost)then your base item(armor in this case don't devlcay .but if you didn't enhance say weapon the that piece decay .this would actually work and relatively easy for most mmo to add .i love this solution to stabilize economy of mmo
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zekeofev
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo?

    Do you want to be able to give items to your friends?

    Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy?

    If you answered yes to all three (or maybe just 2), then there is only one solution.  Item Decay. 

    Since you've played EVE Online already, I can honestly say that I don't think you've really thought this post through.

    Not really sure what the problem is here. Eve does not have item decay on use of items (except ammo) but rather when it is destroyed you lose the ship and a percentage of the modules on it.

    Items do decay in that they are removed from the world. Item decay does not have to be an on use thing.

     ...

    Item decay refers to items becoming less operative or being removed from the world in some way. It could be based on a timer, based on use, based on a significant event (death), based on PVP, based on world events, or tied to any number of other things. (Not all of these are even good ideas to do)

    Item loss and item decay are two different mechanics. Like breakage and consumption, they are some of the ways in which items are removed from the system. Item decay is not the only solution, nor is it a generic term for removing items from the system.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AlcuinAlcuin Broken State, CAPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    This also goes hand in hand with making the most powerful items in the game be player crafted.

    Mobs could drop ruined items or materials that might be used to forge a variety of things. Takes away camping mobs and emphasizes player interdependence in the crafting realm.

    _____________________________
    "Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo?

    Don't really care.

    Do you want to be able to give items to your friends?

    I can already do that.

    Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy?

    Define "functioning". I don't see anything wrong MMO economy today.

     

     Economies function.   I suspect he thinks functioning means he has an idea of a correct economy rather than a wrong economy. 

    Does item decay help the regular player?  we know it's great for the crafters.

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by zekeofev
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo?

    Do you want to be able to give items to your friends?

    Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy?

    If you answered yes to all three (or maybe just 2), then there is only one solution.  Item Decay. 

    Since you've played EVE Online already, I can honestly say that I don't think you've really thought this post through.

    Not really sure what the problem is here. Eve does not have item decay on use of items (except ammo) but rather when it is destroyed you lose the ship and a percentage of the modules on it.

    Items do decay in that they are removed from the world. Item decay does not have to be an on use thing.

     ...

    Item decay refers to items becoming less operative or being removed from the world in some way. It could be based on a timer, based on use, based on a significant event (death), based on PVP, based on world events, or tied to any number of other things. (Not all of these are even good ideas to do)

    Item loss and item decay are two different mechanics. Like breakage and consumption, they are some of the ways in which items are removed from the system. Item decay is not the only solution, nor is it a generic term for removing items from the system.

     

    They are not two completely different mechanics but variations of the same goal to get items out of the main system in some ways. For example there is not much difference between item decay and item loss when an item that is fully decayed is obsolete to the most accesible and avaliable replacement gear. The goal of them is the same although the exact mechanics are different.

     

    I take it you would argue they are completely different because in EVE for example you can play the exact same ship endlessly if you do not die in it (save ammo). Which is different then say SWG where there was an inevitible decline to the effectiveness of your item. However I could easily make a decaying system where it decayed in a set and avoidable manner (like on death) and an item loss system happen in an inevitible way (like on a timer).

     

    I think it is fair to be able to talk about these mechanics under one umbrella even if yes, they are seperate in some ways.

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zekeofev

    I take it you would argue they are completely different because in EVE for example you can play the exact same ship endlessly if you do not die in it (save ammo).

    No, I argue that they are two different mechanics because they ARE two different mechanics.

    Item decay is wear and tear. It is a reduction of durability. It is decay. It does not necessarily result in item loss, and is more commonly used as a method of taking currency out of the system than of taking items out of the system.

    Item loss is the complete removal of the item from the system. This could be as a result of decay, breakage, crafting failure or any number of methods.

    Loss and decay are two different ways to remove items or currency from the game, loss being direct and decay being indirect.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    Guys, there's really no need to discuss the difference between item decay and destruction etc. The only thing that matters is, that items get constantly removed from the game.

    An economy can only work, if theres constant demand for new items and materials. Once everyone has all he needs, the economy dies.

    Look at your typical MMO like WoW. The only thing that's constantly needed is pots and potions, the best items are allways looted and never break or get lost.
    Crafting in MMOs like this is a very basic sidegame, that might help you while leveling up, but as soon as you hit max-level you want to retrain into cooking or whatever is needed for pots and potions.
    Runes and inscriptions are changed aswell from time to time, but that's not nearly enough to drive an economy, where specialized farmers and crafters are actually needed.

    The best way to create an economy is to have all the best items crafted by specilized players, who invested lots of time to become a master blacksmith or whatever, and to make sure that the economy is kept alive is to have all items vanish from the game at some point, be it by decay over time or by destruction upon death.

    I would actually prefer a mix. Decay over time for all and random destruction of a few items upon death. This guarantees a never sleeping economy, with constant demand for new materials and items.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by adam_nox

    Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo?

    Don't really care.

    Do you want to be able to give items to your friends?

    I can already do that.

    Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy?

    Define "functioning". I don't see anything wrong MMO economy today.

     

    That's pretty much how I feel too.  For the second, I'd much rather help a friend go out and find an item of their own rather than relying on me to give them my cast-offs.  That's a problem I see in lots of these games, where people will create a secondary character, then pile a lot of crap from their first character so the second doesn't actually have to do any work.  I'd much rather see all characters, even alts, have to earn their way in the world.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by adam_nox Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo? Don't really care. Do you want to be able to give items to your friends? I can already do that. Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy? Define "functioning". I don't see anything wrong MMO economy today.
     
    That's pretty much how I feel too.  For the second, I'd much rather help a friend go out and find an item of their own rather than relying on me to give them my cast-offs.  That's a problem I see in lots of these games, where people will create a secondary character, then pile a lot of crap from their first character so the second doesn't actually have to do any work.  I'd much rather see all characters, even alts, have to earn their way in the world.

    With items decaying over time and even more so on use, you can't hoard items and then give them to your alts whenever you seem fit, as they'll vanish at some point no matter what.

    You can try to save them items for longer, but this will require repairs.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    Any mechanism that takes items out of circulation prevents excess items from clogging the economy.  I agree that item decay is one such mechanism.

     

    However, I've never understood why sandboxers have such a strong dislike for items that soulbound on pickup or equip.  What makes item decay so great but BOE so terrible when they achieve the same thing?

     

    intended as an honest question, not flame bait

    Personally, if this is a problem, I'd be much happier if there were only so many items in circulation and never any more.  There are only 10,000 of this particular sword in all the world.  There will never be any more, there will never be any less.  If you're not one of the people with those swords, you can never get one unless you can kill a mob that has one, then you can take it as your own.  Of course, this means that we'd have to allow every single bit of gear that a mob carries to be picked up, unless damaged or destroyed during the fight, something that most games do not have.  Mobs do not continue to respawn with new armor so you can just pick up a thousand sets and corner the market, I'd say that if the armor was destroyed, the next time they respawn, they ought to have it again until it is taken from them.  As the population of the world grows, new and different types of armor or weapons could be introduced.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Crafting being worth something does not require item decay, it requires being able to craft more than just armor/weapons but also VANITY ITEMS and/or ITEM SKINS for new looks, and a large amount of consumables...

     I think the most self-perpetuating problem of not having item decay and dynamic resource/crafting quality is, developers have to keep introducing more levels to the classes and more powerful items to obsolete the older ones (so to give newer players a chance to catch up).

    This has been one of the most common problem among themepark mmos. Just look at WoW - players are up to level what? 90 something now? and they got too many abilities that they don't even use, just because they want to balance the dungeon loots and item powers.

    Perm decay is a good way (and a easier way) to prevent the "Dragonball syndrome" - ie. 20million dps ridiculousness once a game has a couple of expansions.

     

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Yalexy

     


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by adam_nox Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo? Don't really care. Do you want to be able to give items to your friends? I can already do that. Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy? Define "functioning". I don't see anything wrong MMO economy today.
     
    That's pretty much how I feel too.  For the second, I'd much rather help a friend go out and find an item of their own rather than relying on me to give them my cast-offs.  That's a problem I see in lots of these games, where people will create a secondary character, then pile a lot of crap from their first character so the second doesn't actually have to do any work.  I'd much rather see all characters, even alts, have to earn their way in the world.

     

    With items decaying over time and even more so on use, you can't hoard items and then give them to your alts whenever you seem fit, as they'll vanish at some point no matter what.

    You can try to save them items for longer, but this will require repairs.

    That's why I'd rather ban being able to give anything to any  character.  It will stop the gold farmers in their tracks if you can *NEVER* give any other character any gold at all, it will stop weapons being sold on ebay or whatever, etc.  If you find it, you can dump it in an NPC shop for cash, but otherwise, hoarde all you want, you're stuck with it forever anyhow.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    absolutely not, you'd spend all of your waking hours keeping up with spoiled food ingredients and broken pieces of armor that you should reform to a new purple. There is such a thing as overdoing it because after all these games do no take into account the reasons why we now have freezers IRL and why worlds like Star Trek have replicators. There are some things that one doesn't need to do in order to enjoy a game. If you want to be such a rules lawyer go play the dice version of rpg's and be the gm or find one that believes as you do that epic items break and disappear, Leave that out of my games period. It's bad enough that Legend of Grimrock had a limited amount of food and enemies that dropped food but had a food meter.

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Yalexy   Originally posted by Cephus404 Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by adam_nox Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo? Don't really care. Do you want to be able to give items to your friends? I can already do that. Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy? Define "functioning". I don't see anything wrong MMO economy today.
     
    That's pretty much how I feel too.  For the second, I'd much rather help a friend go out and find an item of their own rather than relying on me to give them my cast-offs.  That's a problem I see in lots of these games, where people will create a secondary character, then pile a lot of crap from their first character so the second doesn't actually have to do any work.  I'd much rather see all characters, even alts, have to earn their way in the world.
      With items decaying over time and even more so on use, you can't hoard items and then give them to your alts whenever you seem fit, as they'll vanish at some point no matter what. You can try to save them items for longer, but this will require repairs.
    That's why I'd rather ban being able to give anything to any  character.  It will stop the gold farmers in their tracks if you can *NEVER* give any other character any gold at all, it will stop weapons being sold on ebay or whatever, etc.  If you find it, you can dump it in an NPC shop for cash, but otherwise, hoarde all you want, you're stuck with it forever anyhow.

    Congratulations. You've just made the game into a singleplayer RPG.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Yalexy

     


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by Yalexy  

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by adam_nox Do you want crafting to play an important role in an mmo? Don't really care. Do you want to be able to give items to your friends? I can already do that. Do you want your mmo to have a functioning economy? Define "functioning". I don't see anything wrong MMO economy today.
     
    That's pretty much how I feel too.  For the second, I'd much rather help a friend go out and find an item of their own rather than relying on me to give them my cast-offs.  That's a problem I see in lots of these games, where people will create a secondary character, then pile a lot of crap from their first character so the second doesn't actually have to do any work.  I'd much rather see all characters, even alts, have to earn their way in the world.
      With items decaying over time and even more so on use, you can't hoard items and then give them to your alts whenever you seem fit, as they'll vanish at some point no matter what. You can try to save them items for longer, but this will require repairs.
    That's why I'd rather ban being able to give anything to any  character.  It will stop the gold farmers in their tracks if you can *NEVER* give any other character any gold at all, it will stop weapons being sold on ebay or whatever, etc.  If you find it, you can dump it in an NPC shop for cash, but otherwise, hoarde all you want, you're stuck with it forever anyhow.

     

    Congratulations. You've just made the game into a singleplayer RPG.

    By solving the biggest problems that MMOs face.  I'll take it.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
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  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Item decay solves nothing.

    With item decay you constantly farm to remake equipment before it eventually is destroyed.

    Without item decay you constantly farm to make new different equipment entirely.

     

    The only difference is without item decay, at the very least the equipment you farmed hard for will always be there. In the end, they both lead to the same issue. The economy is a lot larger than this one problem, and frankly you're all looking at the problem from the incorrect perspective in the first place. Crafters will always be left on the outside as long as there are things like raid gear or equipment dropped from monsters that are better or equal to what can be crafted. I know you guys think crafting is some great thing, but the reality is that you are all in the minority. Crafting is not a big thing to players by and large, what is important is getting stronger, and if you give players an easier way to get stronger than crafting, they are going to take it. Period.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • aslan132aslan132 Tampa, FLPosts: 378Member Uncommon

    Post above is correct, item decay and item loss are two very different things. I fully support item decay, AS LONG AS it doesnt result in item loss. Losing durability on death for example is one of the best systems in MMOs. When you die, item is damaged, and with enough death items break and are no longer usable, until they are repaired. They should not be perma broke and unusable. 

     

    Unfortunately from the OP and other comments after, others seem to support item loss. This is an absolutely terrible idea, and this is my opinion of why. The only thing it accomplishes is another artificial gear treadmill. This treadmill is even worse than the normal, because at least then you are gaining power as you aquire better items. How can any of you support having to grind over and over for the EXACT SAME item because it decayed with use and was lost? You honestly want to have to get the same item over and over and over? Talk about not making any sense. 

     

    On that point, Soulbind and Account Bind are brilliant. They create a demand in the economy without penalizing the individual player. If i craft, or earn an item, I should be able to use that item until my character outgrows it. The old MMO economy was healthy because a player could just resell the item they outgrew to the newer players, which is a healthy economy for everyone but crafters. For crafting, you want new players to buy the items from the crafters, not from higher level people who have outleveled them. Thats where Soulbind comes in. 

     

    A healthy crafting economy relies on the crafted items being in demand, but it doesnt require the same player to repeatedly purchase the same item. New characters, either in the form of new players or even old players with alts, is usually more than enough demand. Top that off with other consumables, and you have a working economy without item loss (other than the consumable). You dont have to make the armor or weapon the consumable. Each crafting class can have its own. Cooks have food/drink, Alchemists have potions, Weaponsmiths can have sharpening stones and Armorsmiths can have oils. Give every profession a form of temperary buff, alongside permanent items and theres still demand.

     

    The very last thing I want to do in my MMO is constantly run the same dungeon 50 times to get the item drop i want (which can be crafting materials, doesnt have to be finished product loot). Then after grinding that out, I have to do it again, EVERY MONTH, because I will have to replace the same item every time it breaks. How can anyone see that as a good thing?

  • DenambrenDenambren Montreal, QCPosts: 320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    But in response to specific issues:

    1. I'm not convinced that crafting was ever quite as significant as people remember it.   There's a certain "I found found fun once and I'm having trouble finding it again" aura to the comments people 

    Well, now I know you never played Star Wars Galaxies. And with you not having played SWG, I can completely understand your skepticism towards the crafting "dream", because nothing else has captured it in the same way as SWG did.

     

    In SWG, I built every single part of my starship one by one. And I knew those parts inside out, and even tailored the turrets on the top and bottom deck to suit the firing preferences of my gunner players who rode along in the ship. They were built from a collection of metals, ores, and other resources that I had collected over the years, where each one had dynamic stats and a unique name. I loved that ship and I was responsible for every piece of it. And that was just one crafting profession of many.

     

    Crafting had enough of an impact in SWG that you could subscribe to a monthly fee for years and only focus on crafting. And yes, that hasn't happened again since, so you'll definitely get the impression that old SWG vets "found fun once" and are having trouble finding it again.

     

    -- End of another SWG fan's rant #14715

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Item decay solves nothing.

    With item decay you constantly farm to remake equipment before it eventually is destroyed.

    Without item decay you constantly farm to make new different equipment entirely.

     With perm decay and a dynamic resource crafting system it wouldn't be your job to farm resources and to grind crafting actually - it will be the job of the people who are delicated to the task to do so. You just have to pay them, ie. Opportunity cost and division of labour just like economy in the real world.

    That is the point I think is what some of the naysayers of perm decay are missing. You don't sustain yourself in a perm decay economy. You are part of the society.

     

    The problem with today's mmo is too many people are the producers of the their own equipment. When that happens, most people just go out and do that, and no one buys anything except for raw materials. Hence there is no real economy, and the game has to introduce artificial money sink such as certification for vehicles that cost a lot of in game cash and mail fees which makes absolutely no sense at all.

     

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Item decay solves nothing.

    With item decay you constantly farm to remake equipment before it eventually is destroyed.

    Without item decay you constantly farm to make new different equipment entirely.

     

    The only difference is without item decay, at the very least the equipment you farmed hard for will always be there. In the end, they both lead to the same issue. The economy is a lot larger than this one problem, and frankly you're all looking at the problem from the incorrect perspective in the first place. Crafters will always be left on the outside as long as there are things like raid gear or equipment dropped from monsters that are better or equal to what can be crafted. I know you guys think crafting is some great thing, but the reality is that you are all in the minority. Crafting is not a big thing to players by and large, what is important is getting stronger, and if you give players an easier way to get stronger than crafting, they are going to take it. Period.

    I agree. I would love to seem top tier raids drop crafting materials with extra mods which means the best gear must involve raids and players involved in crafting.

     

    I don't think crafting should be that easy though.

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