GW2 has telegraphs, The Secret World has them, and so does TERA. It works well in all those games and GW2 and TERA especially are generally regarded as having quite good combat. I think especially with TERA, despite all the stuff that it's lacking, many would agree that it's combat is one of the best out there and Wildstar seems to be doing something quite similar to TERA.
Originally posted by snapfusion Non stop dodging in a dungeon raid or even PvP gets real old real fast. Another feature I just found annoying.
I think since Wildstar is following the traditional trinity role system there will be a bit of dodging when necessary but a tank will be there to keep aggro and a healer to keep you alive if you make mistakes. So I think it will be more like TERA than GW2 which I'm excited for. As much as I like GW2, I do prefer the trinity setup because it just works.
Wildstar just took a radically wrong turn with their combat design. in one stroke, my interest in Wildstar just completely deflated.
this is how you "keep us interested"???!! this is what you call "exciting"!??! this is keeping us from being "bored" ??!! omfg horrendous idea. Wildstar... scrap this idea now. before its too late. put out a press release and call it a bad joke. your combat was already loooking alot of fun and exciting. THIS TRIVIALIZES AND COUNTERACTS ALL THAT FUN YOU ALREADY WERE CREATING!!! terribad just badbadbad
i really liked the blend of aimed attacks and traditional targeting. i also still enjoy the Trinity if its executed by a class system with interesting and flexible classes. but all that wonderful thrilling mix of possibilites gets completely negated and defused and rendered trivial by this completely moronic telegraphic mechanic. it will overshadow and tarnish all of the very awesome vibe that Wildstar was creating.
so gimmicky. instead of paying attention to the monster's animations and sound effects and learning the mechanics and patterns of an encounter. this is so sad. and used in pvp as well. GAH i was sooo excited for this game. now.. theres little chance i will play this.
and i keep hearing people say "dont worry it will get harder as you level up!!" rofl ya.. i bet the Giant Robot Boss will spell out "L A M E" in big red letters all over ground... so sad
You are defnitely not the best of the best of any type of game, simply because the reason of you bitching is telegraphing attacks. I bet you can't dodge anything that is telegraphed, simply because you're tunnel visioned.
I don't think this is a bad idea, the holy trinity and traditional hot key mechanics is just... boring. Don't get me wrong, I love EQ, WoW, Rift and all those games... for the first ten years!! We playrs tend not to like the changes, especially for something that worked so dame well for such a long time, but at some point they need to put some elements that's more reallistic into their combat system. Like it or not, this "action based combat" trend is happening. Hopfully for the best.
As for the telegraphs... yeah I admit they're just way too easy to get out of. In my opnion they shouldn't show those boxes at all. And if they must have those on screen, just show them exactly the moment when they hit you and not before, plus the boxes should be provided in a much less obvious way. In that case we can learn how to dodge from our experence of previous encounters but not from the stupid visual aid... and you'll still get hit from time to time if you're just not careful enough.
It's a nice move to step out of the industry's comfort zone and try to improve the game's combat. Carbine is a good company, lets hope they can get it right.
Guy suggests adding an option to turn off the telegraphs for players who don't like it. Idea is immediatly shot down because it's not about what "we" want but whats good for the game? LOL And you know whats good for the game better then everyone else right? An option to disable it is the perfect solution...I happen to think telegraphs are a great idea and will only help them attract more people to the game. I guess I shouldn't expect anything less with the way todays society is...it isn't enough to have your way...you gotta force you way on everyone else as well.
I like the idea of a telegraph warning rather than having to learn from experience. Learning from experience gets old after your third and fourth death. However, I am disappointed that the game is leaning heavily towards the GW2/Tera action combat. I do enjoy GW2 (still playing it) but the constant dodging is getting REALLY annoying. I am still hopeful on Wildstar so I can live with action combat. However, if they take away the trinity then I say goodbye.
I never liked it in GW2 and I'm not a fan of it here. Way too much hand holding. I hope they tone it down.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I have to agree, that is too much. But looking at the combat, it looks pretty much essential. Most of those area attacks were non intuitive and were dropping down all over the place in odd patterns.
I would rather see the start of a spell effect, like rumbling ground, a shadow over my character, wind starting to blow around me, or an obvious animation from the mob rather than those hideous orange signs.
I'm never playing a MMO that does this again. Quit Rift mostly because of the telegraphing, and what seemed like mechanics that were based around it. GW2 would have been fine without it, but that whole game was for 12 year olds so I don't fault them for it.
I agree with majority here.. It's bad, silly and bad ! Lets keep these markers only on attacks that will take away like 80% or ALL of your hp in single hit or something. If there are no lethal attacks like that in the game, just get rid of it.
This is making raids and teaming more complex not easier. Because of telegraphs they can makes attcks more complex. Also telegraphs work with players attacks and support spells. This makes combos more complex and will help players work together in a deepers ways then you will see in most MMO. When you get to the elder game and everyone has been trined to work together and because of this raids willo be smoother and developers wont need to hold back for fear not everyone will get how mob and players skills work. This is a good thing!!!
Originally posted by Vrika Some warning is good, but I think that's a bit too much. Players should be fighting against the mobs, not dancing with different shapes projected on the floor.
Why? I'm not suggesting that every game should have it, but why should that not be a viable or - dare I suggest - enjoyable mechanic?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Guy suggests adding an option to turn off the telegraphs for players who don't like it. Idea is immediatly shot down because it's not about what "we" want but whats good for the game? LOL And you know whats good for the game better then everyone else right? An option to disable it is the perfect solution...I happen to think telegraphs are a great idea and will only help them attract more people to the game. I guess I shouldn't expect anything less with the way todays society is...it isn't enough to have your way...you gotta force you way on everyone else as well.
Remember that guy in your raid that always stood in the fire? Turnig off telegraphs for the few that hate it would make you that twit the stands in the fire. Wildstar has really stepped up the types and styles of attacks and how they interact with eachother. Turning off telepraphs would not only make this game to hard but you will look like the worst MMOer on the server. Telegraphs in this game are not like you have seen before. They are here to make the game harder not easy.
if you watch the telegraphs video it becomes pretty obvious that they grow in complexity , most action games you just wait for the mob to 'load up' on a powerfull attack and just roll out of the way in one of 4 directions. The telegraphs system actually is MORE challenging because it won't be just cirlces and X's it will be complex patterns frankly i think this will be more challenging than standard action combat. Frankly the people that are mad about this just don't get it, its going to be more challenging not less.
Telegraphing is nothing new, Raid games like Rift use a heavy amount of telegraphing in raids and in group dungeons while only a very small amount of telegraphing on solo mobs. Generally reserved for special solo mobs.
What is different about Wildstars telegraphing is it used by players to let the group and raid know their actions so they can take advantage of that action and at least in those videos it seems to be used on all mobs and used mroe frequently and randomly. I agree with some the amount of telegraphing and apparent rsandomness of the telegraphing in the video might become anoying. But if it is that is something that can be tuned in their Alpha and coming Beta.
In regards to players using it. Gaffney has mentioned that one could put a heal totem letting players know where it will be plaed in advanace. Or a buff area letting players get in range. It may also help work with group or raid synergistic attacks if they include such a feature like other games like FFX!, EQ2, LOTRO or Vanguard which had group synergy type of attacks.
Wildstar just took a radically wrong turn with their combat design. in one stroke, my interest in Wildstar just completely deflated.
S'okay, we're all into snap judgements.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I agree with the OP. I don't want another game where they're holding my hand the whole time. Guess I can pass on Wildstar. Too bad, the housing looked pretty cool.
At first I wanted to disagree with the OP because he sounds a little ridiculous with all his nerd-rage.
However, I watched the attached video and then instantly agreed. I think some telegraphing is good. If there is something that will kill you if it lands, you probably should be able to see it; at least on non-raids. However, the amount of telegraphing they are showing just makes combat look boring. The mob telegraphs enough without the stupid red box
So I watched the video and have to say a few things. First the guy narrating sounds like he's trying to hard to make something very simplistic sound difficult.
Now me personally I would be moving constantly in combat so those telegraphs are more of an annoyance then anything. I would rather see the telegraph in more of a fast flashing, 3,2,1 sequence just before it goes off. Not litterally 5-7 seconds before I mean how much warning does this gaming generation need? And on non-raid mobs none the less. I wouldnt even expect that much warning on an end-game raid boss of <insert game here>.
Also come on just a hollow ring will do I dont need huge red dots to know to move. What are we 8?
One thing I do like which should happen in other games more often in my opinion is other attacks from other mobs doing damage to the mob you are focused on. Why should any game assume that all the mobs in the game are on the same team just because they are against you.
We need lots more of that in every mmo. That would help with strategy.
One thing I do like which should happen in other games more often in my opinion is other attacks from other mobs doing damage to the mob you are focused on. Why should any game assume that all the mobs in the game are on the same team just because they are against you.
We need lots more of that in every mmo. That would help with strategy.
In that case if a player casts an AoE spell and you are in the Area of Effect you should also take damage.
I think some kind of warning is sufficient, those telegraph boxes on the ground its just too much, its a nice idea but it doenst seems pratical, imagine a huge group of mobs...
A warning over the mob head its enough, a learning curve ,knowing the mobs skills and their abilities, try and error mechanics.
Comments
I think since Wildstar is following the traditional trinity role system there will be a bit of dodging when necessary but a tank will be there to keep aggro and a healer to keep you alive if you make mistakes. So I think it will be more like TERA than GW2 which I'm excited for. As much as I like GW2, I do prefer the trinity setup because it just works.
You are defnitely not the best of the best of any type of game, simply because the reason of you bitching is telegraphing attacks. I bet you can't dodge anything that is telegraphed, simply because you're tunnel visioned.
I don't think this is a bad idea, the holy trinity and traditional hot key mechanics is just... boring. Don't get me wrong, I love EQ, WoW, Rift and all those games... for the first ten years!! We playrs tend not to like the changes, especially for something that worked so dame well for such a long time, but at some point they need to put some elements that's more reallistic into their combat system. Like it or not, this "action based combat" trend is happening. Hopfully for the best.
As for the telegraphs... yeah I admit they're just way too easy to get out of. In my opnion they shouldn't show those boxes at all. And if they must have those on screen, just show them exactly the moment when they hit you and not before, plus the boxes should be provided in a much less obvious way. In that case we can learn how to dodge from our experence of previous encounters but not from the stupid visual aid... and you'll still get hit from time to time if you're just not careful enough.
It's a nice move to step out of the industry's comfort zone and try to improve the game's combat. Carbine is a good company, lets hope they can get it right.
Some typical responses here....
Guy suggests adding an option to turn off the telegraphs for players who don't like it. Idea is immediatly shot down because it's not about what "we" want but whats good for the game? LOL And you know whats good for the game better then everyone else right? An option to disable it is the perfect solution...I happen to think telegraphs are a great idea and will only help them attract more people to the game. I guess I shouldn't expect anything less with the way todays society is...it isn't enough to have your way...you gotta force you way on everyone else as well.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I have to agree, that is too much. But looking at the combat, it looks pretty much essential. Most of those area attacks were non intuitive and were dropping down all over the place in odd patterns.
I would rather see the start of a spell effect, like rumbling ground, a shadow over my character, wind starting to blow around me, or an obvious animation from the mob rather than those hideous orange signs.
Why? I'm not suggesting that every game should have it, but why should that not be a viable or - dare I suggest - enjoyable mechanic?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Remember that guy in your raid that always stood in the fire? Turnig off telegraphs for the few that hate it would make you that twit the stands in the fire. Wildstar has really stepped up the types and styles of attacks and how they interact with eachother. Turning off telepraphs would not only make this game to hard but you will look like the worst MMOer on the server. Telegraphs in this game are not like you have seen before. They are here to make the game harder not easy.
Telegraphing is nothing new, Raid games like Rift use a heavy amount of telegraphing in raids and in group dungeons while only a very small amount of telegraphing on solo mobs. Generally reserved for special solo mobs.
What is different about Wildstars telegraphing is it used by players to let the group and raid know their actions so they can take advantage of that action and at least in those videos it seems to be used on all mobs and used mroe frequently and randomly. I agree with some the amount of telegraphing and apparent rsandomness of the telegraphing in the video might become anoying. But if it is that is something that can be tuned in their Alpha and coming Beta.
In regards to players using it. Gaffney has mentioned that one could put a heal totem letting players know where it will be plaed in advanace. Or a buff area letting players get in range. It may also help work with group or raid synergistic attacks if they include such a feature like other games like FFX!, EQ2, LOTRO or Vanguard which had group synergy type of attacks.
S'okay, we're all into snap judgements.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
So I watched the video and have to say a few things. First the guy narrating sounds like he's trying to hard to make something very simplistic sound difficult.
Now me personally I would be moving constantly in combat so those telegraphs are more of an annoyance then anything. I would rather see the telegraph in more of a fast flashing, 3,2,1 sequence just before it goes off. Not litterally 5-7 seconds before I mean how much warning does this gaming generation need? And on non-raid mobs none the less. I wouldnt even expect that much warning on an end-game raid boss of <insert game here>.
Also come on just a hollow ring will do I dont need huge red dots to know to move. What are we 8?
One thing I do like which should happen in other games more often in my opinion is other attacks from other mobs doing damage to the mob you are focused on. Why should any game assume that all the mobs in the game are on the same team just because they are against you.
We need lots more of that in every mmo. That would help with strategy.
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)
In that case if a player casts an AoE spell and you are in the Area of Effect you should also take damage.
Like I can see that happening lol.
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)
I think some kind of warning is sufficient, those telegraph boxes on the ground its just too much, its a nice idea but it doenst seems pratical, imagine a huge group of mobs...
A warning over the mob head its enough, a learning curve ,knowing the mobs skills and their abilities, try and error mechanics.
Beta tester maniac