Originally posted by observer It would have worked in GW2, except there wasn't a threat mechanic, and if there was, it wasn't implemented well. That's why it felt chaotic, instead of a controlled environment.
Wasn't implimented well = I didn't understand it.
The aggro mechanic is just complicated compared to a trinity game, that's the precise reason most people don't get it. They're used to having their mobs do exactly what they want.
Sigh, the same tired response whenever someone levels valid criticism at the game.
Originally posted by observer It would have worked in GW2, except there wasn't a threat mechanic, and if there was, it wasn't implemented well. That's why it felt chaotic, instead of a controlled environment.
Wasn't implimented well = I didn't understand it.
The aggro mechanic is just complicated compared to a trinity game, that's the precise reason most people don't get it. They're used to having their mobs do exactly what they want.
Sigh, the same tired response whenever someone levels valid criticism at the game.
Irony at its finest.
The aggro mechanic is still having to be explained to people to this day. My post is valid. Yours? Well yeah, not really necessary or constructive.
Originally posted by observer It would have worked in GW2, except there wasn't a threat mechanic, and if there was, it wasn't implemented well. That's why it felt chaotic, instead of a controlled environment.
Wasn't implimented well = I didn't understand it.
The aggro mechanic is just complicated compared to a trinity game, that's the precise reason most people don't get it. They're used to having their mobs do exactly what they want.
Sigh, the same tired response whenever someone levels valid criticism at the game.
Irony at its finest.
The aggro mechanic is still having to be explained to people to this day. My post is valid. Yours? Well yeah, not really necessary or constructive.
I assume you are using the Alanis Morissette definition of irony?
the idea was cool , no trinity ....but ingame , was just chaos and not that fun :S
if mmo devs need to implement something do it like rift every class/archetype is a hybrid , no X role only class.
or FFXI 1 character can be all the classes, so u dont feel like losing everything if u want to reroll , (achivements , mounts ect)
Tanking as rogue in rift was fun (now is more simple less buffs tracking and thats not bad was a bit insane)
but tanking as Nin in FFXI ? nothing can beat that :P
and yeah i miss the the support/CC archetype ,howerver u are gonna be forced to have 1 and thats why WoW gave buffs/auras to other classes "bring the player not the class "
I hate the holdy trinity.. You end up with a 3 class game.. DPS, Tank and Heals....... I want to see something similar to the original EQ.. I want to see more roles and hybrids, but that isnt' going to happen unless you throw "PvP" and "Raid" balance out the window.. I want a PURE PvE game with a variety of classes to play.. The more the better
Yes and no. I really disliked GW2 dungeons. I mean REALLY disliked them. They made me want to sit on a knife... However, I don't like the "trinity" much better since my favorite class type, controller, has disappeared with it. I haven't seen one properly implemented in a game in ages. If it takes the trinity to bring back the control role, then I will welcome it.
I'm glad you love GW2's system, you can play GW2 and we who like the trinity can play games like TESO.
Everyone is happy, right?
I wish it was like that... Sigh. Then again, people can justly express their opinions. But there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol) I guess it's okay to just say we're immune to valid criticism whenever we try to explain it. I still like GW2's system because I can play the class I like to play based on the style of play, not the pigeonhole it's ascribed to. So soft trinities are the way to go methinks.
Please note: The Holy Trinity only refers to concrete and non-flexible systems like WoW where there's a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, and the rest pew pew with no in between.
I'm glad you love GW2's system, you can play GW2 and we who like the trinity can play games like TESO.
Everyone is happy, right?
I wish it was like that... Sigh. Then again, people can justly express their opinions. But there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol) I guess it's okay to just say we're immune to valid criticism whenever we try to explain it. I still like GW2's system because I can play the class I like to play based on the style of play, not the pigeonhole it's ascribed to. So soft trinities are the way to go methinks.
Please note: The Holy Trinity only refers to concrete and non-flexible systems like WoW where there's a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, and the rest pew pew with no in between.
yea it is funny was doing CM last night and had some guy rage quit because he kept getting one shot by the bomber guy towards the end.. he left we got a replacement and finished it no problem... most of the issues i have seen with people on gw2 dungeons are people who just can't adapt to changes or just don't care to.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There is no best, there is only how a game is designed. For instance, would you say that TF2 would be better if everyone was homogenized? How about Forge(lulshamannerfs)?
At the same time, how would you feel if Marauders from Path of Exile could only tank, and Witches could only fill dps roles?
But what I am more curious about, is the fact that people actually think that there are not tanks nor healers in Guild Wars 2. I can safely say that if you've played Guild Wars 2 up to this day, and still don't understand the aggro mechanic intricacies, then you definitely did not make it passed FL50, and probably never will seeing as FL51 is walled off.
The masses love knowing their roles in mmos. Removing the holy trinity confuses people. Some can adapt most can't or choose not to. I prefer the holy trinity because it gives my character a purpose.
there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol)
Ha, yeah right. Most of them just say it doesn't work at all, instead of trying to wrap their heads around the detail behind the system (particularly aggro) works. It's easier to say "it's fail" than to admit maybe you don't understand it because the idea of everything going for the tank has been bashed into your head for a decade. *shrug* If you say this, however, people will say you're wrong.
Even I don't understand the GW2 aggro system completely, even after months of playing and/or reading others' experiences. But there is a system, it's just more complex than the usual. Is that better? Maybe, maybe not, it's all opinion anyway.
There is no best, there is only how a game is designed. For instance, would you say that TF2 would be better if everyone was homogenized? How about Forge(lulshamannerfs)?
At the same time, how would you feel if Marauders from Path of Exile could only tank, and Witches could only fill dps roles?
But what I am more curious about, is the fact that people actually think that there are not tanks nor healers in Guild Wars 2. I can safely say that if you've played Guild Wars 2 up to this day, and still don't understand the aggro mechanic intricacies, then you definitely did not make it passed FL50, and probably never will seeing as FL51 is walled off.
See, I don't even know what that's like cause I don't even do dungeons. I just do WvW and am a commander in a 400 man guild on Fort Aspenwood. And I can probably safely say a lot of people commenting on GW2 combat here saying it's messy or what have you don't have a firm grasp on what sigils, runes, traits, and probably most importantly, skill combos, do to the game. We can certainly start talking roles there. :-)
Originally posted by Rydeson I hate the holdy trinity.. You end up with a 3 class game.. DPS, Tank and Heals....... I want to see something similar to the original EQ.. I want to see more roles and hybrids, but that isnt' going to happen unless you throw "PvP" and "Raid" balance out the window.. I want a PURE PvE game with a variety of classes to play.. The more the better
I never saw a problem with how WoW did it, with talents you could play many roles. I mean as a Druid I could play Tank, Damage dealer or a healer and yet the trinity still existed because you couldn't do it all at the same time. As a priest I could be a healer or a damage dealer and every class had at least two roles. It's the best class system out of any MMO I've played which uses one.
Sadly though WoW got turned to shit.
Well, just out of curiosity, which 2 roles were available to rogues, locks and qqers err, mages ?
But i agree with the last sentence, even if we would probably disagree on the exact point in time.
I'm glad you love GW2's system, you can play GW2 and we who like the trinity can play games like TESO.
Everyone is happy, right?
I wish it was like that... Sigh. Then again, people can justly express their opinions. But there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol) I guess it's okay to just say we're immune to valid criticism whenever we try to explain it. I still like GW2's system because I can play the class I like to play based on the style of play, not the pigeonhole it's ascribed to. So soft trinities are the way to go methinks.
Please note: The Holy Trinity only refers to concrete and non-flexible systems like WoW where there's a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, and the rest pew pew with no in between.
I played GW2 to level 80 on a norn ranger and 54 with a female norn thief.
As for the holy trinity, please don't try to school me on it i've played MMO's since 1999.
Thanks.
Trinity is best in my opinion but it's like i said.
You can keep enjoying GW2 while the people who like the trinity system can enjoy games like TESO and ArcheAge or any number of MMO's that still use that system.
Thank goodness most devs don't see it the same way ArenaNet do.
I never saw a problem with how WoW did it, with talents you could play many roles. I mean as a Druid I could play Tank, Damage dealer or a healer and yet the trinity still existed because you couldn't do it all at the same time. As a priest I could be a healer or a damage dealer and every class had at least two roles. It's the best class system out of any MMO I've played which uses one.
Sadly though WoW got turned to shit.
Well, just out of curiosity, which 2 roles were available to rogues, locks and qqers err, mages ?
But i agree with the last sentence, even if we would probably disagree on the exact point in time.
Flame on!
For me it was when they made it so you can warp to Battlegrounds, it killed world PVP.
Although I find GW2 to be very fun overall I do miss being able to play a primarily support based character. I don't know that I'd say "Trinity" is best, but the complete lack of being able to focus on playing a support type character in GW2 is far from best for me as well as two of my friends.
Specialization is fun. A person can play many games and take pride in never letting another party member die because they are an awesome healer, or an awesome tank, or an awesome controller, or take pride in being able to do such a massive amount of damage while their support friends keep them up that encounters go very fast. GW2 only allows playing a character that does lots of damage in one form, lots of damage in another form, lots of damage in another form, or some damage in a mix of forms, and then in all of those mix in a tiny bit of support. So all you can take pride in is that you might do a little more damage in a different way without dying compared to everyone else doing a little more damage in another way without dying.
I'm glad you love GW2's system, you can play GW2 and we who like the trinity can play games like TESO.
Everyone is happy, right?
I wish it was like that... Sigh. Then again, people can justly express their opinions. But there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol) I guess it's okay to just say we're immune to valid criticism whenever we try to explain it. I still like GW2's system because I can play the class I like to play based on the style of play, not the pigeonhole it's ascribed to. So soft trinities are the way to go methinks.
Please note: The Holy Trinity only refers to concrete and non-flexible systems like WoW where there's a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, and the rest pew pew with no in between.
I played GW2 to level 80 on a norn ranger and 54 with a female norn thief.
As for the holy trinity, please don't try to school me on it i've played MMO's since 1999.
Thanks.
Trinity is best in my opinion but it's like i said.
You can keep enjoying GW2 while the people who like the trinity system can enjoy games like TESO and ArcheAge or any number of MMO's that still use that system.
Pretty simple really options really.
Woah man, sorry for the misunderstanding here. I think we're in agreement, I just sort of used your statement to make a larger comment on this thread and the OP. Most of it was not directed towards you, including but not limited to the note about the trinity.
Mostly at the OP for saying Holy Trinity and then GW2's methods as basically the only options, when there's a bunch of other MMO's that don't use holy trinity which he's probably lumping into that category.
Example: Those who have an issue with the "Holy Trinity" don't necessarily have a problem with trinity games.
Well, I don't like the GW2 system in the slightest; I would rather have roles more clearly defined. But at the same time I don't think that definition needs to be provided by the trinity.
So as many others have pointed out, I can't really answer the OP's question as they are not the only choices available.
I'm glad you love GW2's system, you can play GW2 and we who like the trinity can play games like TESO.
Everyone is happy, right?
I wish it was like that... Sigh. Then again, people can justly express their opinions. But there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol) I guess it's okay to just say we're immune to valid criticism whenever we try to explain it. I still like GW2's system because I can play the class I like to play based on the style of play, not the pigeonhole it's ascribed to. So soft trinities are the way to go methinks.
Please note: The Holy Trinity only refers to concrete and non-flexible systems like WoW where there's a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, and the rest pew pew with no in between.
I played GW2 to level 80 on a norn ranger and 54 with a female norn thief.
As for the holy trinity, please don't try to school me on it i've played MMO's since 1999.
Thanks.
Trinity is best in my opinion but it's like i said.
You can keep enjoying GW2 while the people who like the trinity system can enjoy games like TESO and ArcheAge or any number of MMO's that still use that system.
Pretty simple really options really.
Woah man, sorry for the misunderstanding here. I think we're in agreement, I just sort of used your statement to make a larger comment on this thread and the OP. Most of it was not directed towards you, including but not limited to the note about the trinity.
Mostly at the OP for saying Holy Trinity and then GW2's methods as basically the only options, when there's a bunch of other MMO's that don't use holy trinity which he's probably lumping into that category.
Example: Those who have an issue with the "Holy Trinity" don't necessarily have a problem with trinity games.
Just wanted to clarify my intentions.
Ah i see your point but i wasn't trying to come across as being rude.
I am of the mind that you play what you enjoy at the end of the day. My problem with the OP is that the trinity hasn't gone anywhere it's alive and stronger than ever.
Comments
Sigh, the same tired response whenever someone levels valid criticism at the game.
Irony at its finest.
The aggro mechanic is still having to be explained to people to this day. My post is valid. Yours? Well yeah, not really necessary or constructive.
I assume you are using the Alanis Morissette definition of irony?
Yeah what happened to the support/buffer role? Or the hybrid?
Looks like the majority in this poll was not impressed with GW2s class role system.
Personally, I can't envision having fun in any cooperative game without at least loosely defined roles.
http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615
the idea was cool , no trinity ....but ingame , was just chaos and not that fun :S
if mmo devs need to implement something do it like rift every class/archetype is a hybrid , no X role only class.
or FFXI 1 character can be all the classes, so u dont feel like losing everything if u want to reroll , (achivements , mounts ect)
Tanking as rogue in rift was fun (now is more simple less buffs tracking and thats not bad was a bit insane)
but tanking as Nin in FFXI ? nothing can beat that :P
and yeah i miss the the support/CC archetype ,howerver u are gonna be forced to have 1 and thats why WoW gave buffs/auras to other classes "bring the player not the class "
Same thing with TSW, every character can eventually have every skill, and fill every role.
Agree that the GW2 system sounded good on paper, but is an unenjoyable mess in reality. It's a lot worse than a trinity-based system.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I wish it was like that... Sigh. Then again, people can justly express their opinions. But there's a clear spread misinformation still on how GW2's system actually works. (6 months in, amazing right? lol) I guess it's okay to just say we're immune to valid criticism whenever we try to explain it. I still like GW2's system because I can play the class I like to play based on the style of play, not the pigeonhole it's ascribed to. So soft trinities are the way to go methinks.
Please note: The Holy Trinity only refers to concrete and non-flexible systems like WoW where there's a dedicated tank, a dedicated healer, and the rest pew pew with no in between.
yea it is funny was doing CM last night and had some guy rage quit because he kept getting one shot by the bomber guy towards the end.. he left we got a replacement and finished it no problem... most of the issues i have seen with people on gw2 dungeons are people who just can't adapt to changes or just don't care to.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There is no best, there is only how a game is designed. For instance, would you say that TF2 would be better if everyone was homogenized? How about Forge(lulshamannerfs)?
At the same time, how would you feel if Marauders from Path of Exile could only tank, and Witches could only fill dps roles?
But what I am more curious about, is the fact that people actually think that there are not tanks nor healers in Guild Wars 2. I can safely say that if you've played Guild Wars 2 up to this day, and still don't understand the aggro mechanic intricacies, then you definitely did not make it passed FL50, and probably never will seeing as FL51 is walled off.
Ha, yeah right. Most of them just say it doesn't work at all, instead of trying to wrap their heads around the detail behind the system (particularly aggro) works. It's easier to say "it's fail" than to admit maybe you don't understand it because the idea of everything going for the tank has been bashed into your head for a decade. *shrug* If you say this, however, people will say you're wrong.
Even I don't understand the GW2 aggro system completely, even after months of playing and/or reading others' experiences. But there is a system, it's just more complex than the usual. Is that better? Maybe, maybe not, it's all opinion anyway.
See, I don't even know what that's like cause I don't even do dungeons. I just do WvW and am a commander in a 400 man guild on Fort Aspenwood. And I can probably safely say a lot of people commenting on GW2 combat here saying it's messy or what have you don't have a firm grasp on what sigils, runes, traits, and probably most importantly, skill combos, do to the game. We can certainly start talking roles there. :-)
This is what I agree with. More roles; not less.
Well, just out of curiosity, which 2 roles were available to rogues, locks and qqers err, mages ?
But i agree with the last sentence, even if we would probably disagree on the exact point in time.
Flame on!
I played GW2 to level 80 on a norn ranger and 54 with a female norn thief.
As for the holy trinity, please don't try to school me on it i've played MMO's since 1999.
Thanks.
Trinity is best in my opinion but it's like i said.
You can keep enjoying GW2 while the people who like the trinity system can enjoy games like TESO and ArcheAge or any number of MMO's that still use that system.
Thank goodness most devs don't see it the same way ArenaNet do.
For me it was when they made it so you can warp to Battlegrounds, it killed world PVP.
Although I find GW2 to be very fun overall I do miss being able to play a primarily support based character. I don't know that I'd say "Trinity" is best, but the complete lack of being able to focus on playing a support type character in GW2 is far from best for me as well as two of my friends.
Specialization is fun. A person can play many games and take pride in never letting another party member die because they are an awesome healer, or an awesome tank, or an awesome controller, or take pride in being able to do such a massive amount of damage while their support friends keep them up that encounters go very fast. GW2 only allows playing a character that does lots of damage in one form, lots of damage in another form, lots of damage in another form, or some damage in a mix of forms, and then in all of those mix in a tiny bit of support. So all you can take pride in is that you might do a little more damage in a different way without dying compared to everyone else doing a little more damage in another way without dying.
Woah man, sorry for the misunderstanding here. I think we're in agreement, I just sort of used your statement to make a larger comment on this thread and the OP. Most of it was not directed towards you, including but not limited to the note about the trinity.
Mostly at the OP for saying Holy Trinity and then GW2's methods as basically the only options, when there's a bunch of other MMO's that don't use holy trinity which he's probably lumping into that category.
Example: Those who have an issue with the "Holy Trinity" don't necessarily have a problem with trinity games.
Just wanted to clarify my intentions.
Well, I don't like the GW2 system in the slightest; I would rather have roles more clearly defined. But at the same time I don't think that definition needs to be provided by the trinity.
So as many others have pointed out, I can't really answer the OP's question as they are not the only choices available.
Ah i see your point but i wasn't trying to come across as being rude.
I am of the mind that you play what you enjoy at the end of the day. My problem with the OP is that the trinity hasn't gone anywhere it's alive and stronger than ever.