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Faction Pride? Probably Not

nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member

One argument I see on this forum is faction lock. Some people are against it, because they want to explore the entire world of Tamriel with 1 character or perhaps with a few characters, but races that are within the same faction as the factions are configured currently. This means people will repeat content if their favorite races are in the same faction. Fans from the other side of the argument say that you can create 1 race from each faction and still explore the entire world. Some others say that the faction lock will bring back the realm pride that DAoC had. If fans are BOTH saying they want faction pride AND you should reroll all 3 factions to see the entire game, doesn't this fly in the face of having realm pride?

In DAoC, people generally stuck with 1 realm over a course of years. Playing the same realm and with the same people for months on end, if not years, is what generated that realm pride. If fans expect players to reroll 3 characters (at least) to see all 3 factions content to settle the argument of being limited in content due to faction lock, aren't you also contradicting yourself on the whole realm pride rebuttal?

I think people will play all 3 factions, thus eliminating or at best seriously reducing realm pride known in DAoC as being a staple for its good RvR. 

So I think the realm pride rebuttal is irrelevant to future discussions.

Comments

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member

    This sense of community, faction pride and realm pride ended with SWG, which wasn't long after DAOC.

    That was about the time WoW came out and MMOs went mainstream, thus going from 500 players online per faction to 5000+.

    Ask some family from the 1960s how sociable life was with their neighbors, friends and complete strangers then ask them to compare that to life today. There's simply too many people in the world today which turns a lot of people kinda bitter; the same principal applies to MMOs.

    Hell.. I basically talk to my neighbors once a month in passing if i'm lucky.

    In GW2, aside from the odd bit of general channel chat, I stuck entirely to my own guild.. like most do now.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member

    Faction pride has nothing to do with being able to have an alt on the other faction or not, its about identity, it doesn't matter that i can roll an alt, its a matter of which faction/people you identify with most while playing. Faction pride is "this is me a mine", i don't have a problem with the game encouraging me to see all sides of the conflict, each character wont be able to interfere in another's pvp campaign anyway, so getting to see each perspective with no repetition of content before deciding on a main is a good thing imo

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon

    There is no realm pride by keeping other factions out of your maps. Thats just that, limitations to the game and limitations to the exploration part of the game. Why not let everyone explore other factions maps with the risk of getting caught by faction guards? If im a sneaky player i can go anywhere without getting caught. Maybe even trigger events in enemy factions that would lead to massive faction conflicts in Cyrodil.

    The faction pride (when it comes to players), comes from being able to beat other factions and take over their territories. Allowing players to wander the entire Tamriel has nothing to do with faction pride. Theres even more pride in being able to (again) sneak to other factions areas, do stuff, and get out successfully.

    Creativity and imagination (even the one that make sense with X or Y Lore) is dying by the hands of ¨the easy way out¨

    image
  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by deakon

    Faction pride has nothing to do with being able to have an alt on the other faction or not, its about identity, it doesn't matter that i can roll an alt, its a matter of which faction/people you identify with most while playing. Faction pride is "this is me a mine", i don't have a problem with the game encouraging me to see all sides of the conflict, each character wont be able to interfere in another's pvp campaign anyway, so getting to see each perspective with no repetition of content before deciding on a main is a good thing imo

    Let's say the average person in a particular faction plays 20 hours a week. Once that average person rolls an alt in another faction, you now have that 20 hours cut down to even fewer. Count another reroll to a 3rd faction and it's even fewer still. How are players gonna bond, which is important for realm pride, if everyone hardly sees the same players day in and day out like they did in DAoC?

    I haven't heard anyone speak of identifying with any faction, or character for that matter, since before WoW came out. I doubt things are just suddenly going to change for ESO. It's wishful thinking and hype getting to a person. People will play and game ESO the same way players have been since WoW became mainstream. They'll have multiple alts, and across differing factions no less. There won't be realm pride the way people keep speaking. That's obviously my opinion, but an opinion based on over a decade of MMORPG gaming, with every new release and then some under my belt. 

    As for the poster who said DAoC only had 500 people per faction, that's not true. DAoC had just over 3000 per server, so an average of 1000 per realm on each server. That's a whole lot of people. You didn't know everyone or even close to it, but you were encouraged to group during the months it took you to level up, so you got to know 10's if not over a hundred players over the course of that journey. Servers don't have much higher of a cap even still. Further more, many games take that population and split them up across several instances of the same zone to keep the performance up. So numbers isn't a problem. People just aren't loyal to 1 faction anymore, on top of there being mostly solo content to level up off of.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    There is no realm pride by keeping other factions out of your maps. Thats just that, limitations to the game and limitations to the exploration part of the game. Why not let everyone explore other factions maps with the risk of getting caught by faction guards? If im a sneaky player i can go anywhere without getting caught. Maybe even trigger events in enemy factions that would lead to massive faction conflicts in Cyrodil.

    The faction pride (when it comes to players), comes from being able to beat other factions and take over their territories. Allowing players to wander the entire Tamriel has nothing to do with faction pride. Theres even more pride in being able to (again) sneak to other factions areas, do stuff, and get out successfully.

    Creativity and imagination (even the one that make sense with X or Y Lore) is dying by the hands of ¨the easy way out¨

    A part of being proud of your faction (faction pride) is loyalty to that faction. A person isn't loyal to their faction if they have an alt in the other 2 factions. That's what I'm getting at. ESO fans expect a player to reroll twice to see the entire world on one hand, and on the other hand they say having racially locked factions will increase realm pride. I disagree, not to mention TES has never been about limiting the game world by racial factions. 

    If Bethesda released all of Tamriel in a single player game, I wonder if ESO fans would be okay with racially locked factions, or if they'd expect to see the entire game world, just like the entire map was explorable in all their previous games. Fans wouldn't be okay with that, yet they have a double standard for ESO. ESO is still supposed to be a TES game, yet Zenimax has butchered the IP by forcing a TES game into a DAoC mold. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. 

    As much as I loved DAoC's RvR system, it doesn't fit in a TES game. Leave RvR to IP's better suited for it, like Camelot Unleashed and The Secret World.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    It still can have server pride if all your alt is on different server (aka the mega server purposely place your alt on other server).
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Casual pve types that don't play endgame will roll all 3 factions and get triple the length out of the game that they do out of a all chums together in pve game like say tsw.

    People interested in endgame pvp will stick to 1 char and have faction pride. I mean you say this yourself, most people in daoc stuck to 1 faction.
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by nate1980

    I haven't heard anyone speak of identifying with any faction, or character for that matter, since before WoW came out. I doubt things are just suddenly going to change for ESO. It's wishful thinking and hype getting to a person. People will play and game ESO the same way players have been since WoW became mainstream. They'll have multiple alts, and across differing factions no less. There won't be realm pride the way people keep speaking. That's obviously my opinion, but an opinion based on over a decade of MMORPG gaming, with every new release and then some under my belt. 

     

    You know what else hasn't been done since before wow was released? Faction locked content, might be an explination as to why you havent.

  • MightyPitMightyPit StuttgartPosts: 89Member
    In DaoC, realm pride was introduced the first time. And it was restricted to one realm per account per server. You could not travel to the other realms with your character. Yes, i think this was part of building up realm pride. The other realms were always the enemy. No chance questing side by side with them. No chance to dive into their lore. Not chance to develop sympathies with them. The players of the other realms choose to be an enemy of mine, and therefore I tried too destroy them (virtually) where I find them.

    MMO's played so far:
    UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
    Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    Was it disloyal to date other people before you got married ?

    Were you disloyal to your wife/husband by dating other people before your marriage ?

    Are you any less proud of your eventual decision to marry that special person, having dated people other than your wife ?

    Do most of the societys we live in force one to make a choice of a marriage partner with out getting to know other potential partners ? (Neither does ESOL)

  • What's ESOL?
  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat SP, MOPosts: 312Member

    I think most people who create alt characters will still end up with one main character and a specific guild they enjoy playing with the most. Usually when you make friends it's at that point that you begin to be loyal to whatever faction you ended up in. Players may make other characters solely to be able to explore all of Tamriel. I don't think this will have any impact at all on Faction Pride.

    I do think that instead of Realm Pride, because of the megaserver you will see more emphasis on Guild Pride.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    It is kind of weird though, since you can jump to an alt and spy on opponent or sabotage the other party.  I dont' really like the idea.
  • aslan132aslan132 Tampa, FLPosts: 378Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by laokoko
    It is kind of weird though, since you can jump to an alt and spy on opponent or sabotage the other party.  I dont' really like the idea.

    You cant do that, because no two characters on the same account will be in the same campaign. They thought of that. You can actually develop realm pride for all 3 realms, and while that does sound contradictory, its not. Like someone else said, you will most likely have a main, even if you roll alts, and that main will be in a guild all on the same Alliance, competing in one campaign. 

     

    Your other alts, will be in other guilds in the other Alliances, and they cannot enter the same campaign as your main. So although you are in a different alliance (realm), you still wont be able to "spy" or "sabotage" for your main Alliance. I think some of you are forgetting that fact.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by nate1980

    I haven't heard anyone speak of identifying with any faction, or character for that matter, since before WoW came out. I doubt things are just suddenly going to change for ESO. It's wishful thinking and hype getting to a person. People will play and game ESO the same way players have been since WoW became mainstream. They'll have multiple alts, and across differing factions no less. There won't be realm pride the way people keep speaking. That's obviously my opinion, but an opinion based on over a decade of MMORPG gaming, with every new release and then some under my belt. 

     

    You know what else hasn't been done since before wow was released? Faction locked content, might be an explination as to why you havent.

    The majority of games with factions have faction locked content. WoW, WAR, SWTOR, etc. All of those games don't share the same quests. The locations they visit may overlap to provide some chance for PvP, but they're not shared.

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by nate1980

    I haven't heard anyone speak of identifying with any faction, or character for that matter, since before WoW came out. I doubt things are just suddenly going to change for ESO. It's wishful thinking and hype getting to a person. People will play and game ESO the same way players have been since WoW became mainstream. They'll have multiple alts, and across differing factions no less. There won't be realm pride the way people keep speaking. That's obviously my opinion, but an opinion based on over a decade of MMORPG gaming, with every new release and then some under my belt. 

     

    You know what else hasn't been done since before wow was released? Faction locked content, might be an explination as to why you havent.

    The majority of games with factions have faction locked content. WoW, WAR, SWTOR, etc. All of those games don't share the same quests. The locations they visit may overlap to provide some chance for PvP, but they're not shared.

    They are shared, same lands, same mobs and for the most part same story from a different perspective, this will be different lands, mobs, stories

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by nate1980

    I haven't heard anyone speak of identifying with any faction, or character for that matter, since before WoW came out. I doubt things are just suddenly going to change for ESO. It's wishful thinking and hype getting to a person. People will play and game ESO the same way players have been since WoW became mainstream. They'll have multiple alts, and across differing factions no less. There won't be realm pride the way people keep speaking. That's obviously my opinion, but an opinion based on over a decade of MMORPG gaming, with every new release and then some under my belt. 

     

    You know what else hasn't been done since before wow was released? Faction locked content, might be an explination as to why you havent.

    The majority of games with factions have faction locked content. WoW, WAR, SWTOR, etc. All of those games don't share the same quests. The locations they visit may overlap to provide some chance for PvP, but they're not shared.

    They are shared, same lands, same mobs and for the most part same story from a different perspective, this will be different lands, mobs, stories

    Different lands, but we don't know if it'll be different mobs and stories. I'm sure it'll be a step above the other games I mentioned though. Guess we'll see.

  • RukushinRukushin Jackson, NJPosts: 82Member Common
    Originally posted by m0lly
    [mod edit]

    The same could be said about DAoC. I never played DAoC so I don't have the fond memories I see countless others having, but I simply must say I lost alot of my anticipation for this game when learning that my Breton cannot walk into Skyrim or Summerset Isles.

    This has confirmed my fears that this game is going to focus alot more on PvP then PvE and immersiveness. When I heard about Skyrim, which was a huge world to explore, was only about 1/6th of all of Tamriel I was overjoyed to think of just how big this game world would be and how long it would take to travel from one end to the other by horseback. We are talking a minimum of YEARS to explore it all. Then they announced they were focusing on explorers finding little nooks and crannies and actually having loot there to encourage exploration, but alas, it is all killed with the confirmation that you choose a main and now you are stuck in only 1/3rd of the whole world.

    I'm a PvE to the max kind of guy and usually hate PvP, but I was even excited for PvP in this game. Even though I prefer PvE, I am not a carebear by any means. I was excited to be sneaking around in enemy territory and PKing in the open world or doing my own quests and have the excitement of trying to fend off a surprise attack. It adds an element of dynamic open and changing world events that do not have to be implemented by the devs or pre-scripted. it adds immersiveness and realism.

    I agree with one of the posters above who mentioned that its seems the devs are trying to squeeze TES into a DAoC mold and I DO NOT like it at all. DAoC from what I understand had some great features(from what i've read about it: I like the 3-faction PvP, siege weapons/catapults, and large scale PvP wars of 100 or more poeple in 1 big open field), but with that said DAoC is form the past and this MMO need to look to the future. 

    Again, I must say I was extremely excited when I first heard of this game and even purchased Skyrim AFTER hearing about TESO simply to become familiar with the lore and some class building as it's completely different from what I am used to, being mostly an MMO gamer. I LOVE the freedom of Skyrim and would simply be happy with Skyrim Online. 

    Picking a race and being locked to a faction is fine with me. I also want faction pride as well, BUT I do not want to be limited in the area I can walk or ride my horse to. Unfortunately, I have lost all interest in a game that doesn't allow me to explore everything with my main character. I'm not a big fan of Alts. So, alas, I am saddened but as I look here at more and more information on the newest MMOs coming for 2013-2014 it seems I will have to wait more towards 2015 and Project Titan perhaps to see what I am really looking for in an MMO of the "next-generation"

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Rukushin
    Originally posted by m0lly
    [mod edit]

    The same could be said about DAoC. I never played DAoC so I don't have the fond memories I see countless others having, but I simply must say I lost alot of my anticipation for this game when learning that my Breton cannot walk into Skyrim or Summerset Isles.

    This has confirmed my fears that this game is going to focus alot more on PvP then PvE and immersiveness. When I heard about Skyrim, which was a huge world to explore, was only about 1/6th of all of Tamriel I was overjoyed to think of just how big this game world would be and how long it would take to travel from one end to the other by horseback. We are talking a minimum of YEARS to explore it all. Then they announced they were focusing on explorers finding little nooks and crannies and actually having loot there to encourage exploration, but alas, it is all killed with the confirmation that you choose a main and now you are stuck in only 1/3rd of the whole world.

    I'm a PvE to the max kind of guy and usually hate PvP, but I was even excited for PvP in this game. Even though I prefer PvE, I am not a carebear by any means. I was excited to be sneaking around in enemy territory and PKing in the open world or doing my own quests and have the excitement of trying to fend off a surprise attack. It adds an element of dynamic open and changing world events that do not have to be implemented by the devs or pre-scripted. it adds immersiveness and realism.

    I agree with one of the posters above who mentioned that its seems the devs are trying to squeeze TES into a DAoC mold and I DO NOT like it at all. DAoC from what I understand had some great features(from what i've read about it: I like the 3-faction PvP, siege weapons/catapults, and large scale PvP wars of 100 or more poeple in 1 big open field), but with that said DAoC is form the past and this MMO need to look to the future. 

    Again, I must say I was extremely excited when I first heard of this game and even purchased Skyrim AFTER hearing about TESO simply to become familiar with the lore and some class building as it's completely different from what I am used to, being mostly an MMO gamer. I LOVE the freedom of Skyrim and would simply be happy with Skyrim Online. 

    Picking a race and being locked to a faction is fine with me. I also want faction pride as well, BUT I do not want to be limited in the area I can walk or ride my horse to. Unfortunately, I have lost all interest in a game that doesn't allow me to explore everything with my main character. I'm not a big fan of Alts. So, alas, I am saddened but as I look here at more and more information on the newest MMOs coming for 2013-2014 it seems I will have to wait more towards 2015 and Project Titan perhaps to see what I am really looking for in an MMO of the "next-generation"

    If you have no desire to play alts a 3 faction game is not designed for you. Your last few sentences tells us this is not going to be something you will enjoy from what we know so far. Best wait on Archage for your 2013 fix :)

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • RukushinRukushin Jackson, NJPosts: 82Member Common

    It's not that I have no desire, but shy away from the desire to make alts. For example, I have been playing WoW on and off since about 2004, but only since cataclysm had I made 3 other alts in addition to my main character. Mostly out of boredom over Cata, but thats besides the point. Now even having 4 characters total I simply choose to devote most of my time to 1 in order to max out and go as far as possible in the game-time I have. I find that I cannot flesh-out(for lack of a better word) my character as deeply if dividing my time between multiple. 

    I have looked alittle at Archage, but the graphics right off the bat didn't really impress me. Perhaps I need to look up alittle bit more and not dismiss it so easily.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by aslan132
    Originally posted by laokoko
    It is kind of weird though, since you can jump to an alt and spy on opponent or sabotage the other party.  I dont' really like the idea.

    You cant do that, because no two characters on the same account will be in the same campaign. They thought of that. You can actually develop realm pride for all 3 realms, and while that does sound contradictory, its not. Like someone else said, you will most likely have a main, even if you roll alts, and that main will be in a guild all on the same Alliance, competing in one campaign. 

     

    Your other alts, will be in other guilds in the other Alliances, and they cannot enter the same campaign as your main. So although you are in a different alliance (realm), you still wont be able to "spy" or "sabotage" for your main Alliance. I think some of you are forgetting that fact.

    so basically the mega server concept is only for pve and for pvp everyone is fixed to their own campaign(server)?

    What if I just realize one of my friend is in one campaign but I have another character from another faction in that campaign.  I can't join him?

    Where did you read all this?  I have hard time finding more information about the game.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yes you can't join your "friend" on the campaign he is currently winning.
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon

    A: How do you know what most people did in DAOC?

    B: DAOC had the same option, which didn't cause a problem there.

    C:  Your opinion is no more relevant than the one you're trying to disqualify

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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