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Free to play does not mean free to develop. Let the willing pay and be happy.

OsmanthusOsmanthus Issaquah, WAPosts: 104Member

I think there are many people here who don't understand how much it costs to build an MMO.  Millions of dollars!  

When people say a game company is being 'greedy' they are being naive.  Game companies do not make the big bucks.  Everyone in the industry could go into business solutions and make a lot more money if they wanted too.  Instead they choose to work longer hours at worse pay and their investors risk huge sums all merely because of their passion for games.

This game is free to play, and people are still complaining.  It boggles the mind.  The people working long hours on it still have to pay rent, build a retirement and eat.  Somebody has to pay or they go to food stamp line.

The glory of this game is that only people who have the excess cash and exuberance need to pay.  Yes, they may pay a lot more than some people think is worthy, but remember, they are carrying the rest of the community.   These people are glad to pay for because they think this is a worthwhile project.  Games are 'Art', and the Arts have always been funded by wealthy Patrons.

So quit griping. Pay or don't pay, its up to you, but don't be rude by calling those that pay names or the creators of the game greedy please.

 

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Comments

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Agree ofc, its like a little child looking at another child eating a nice lolly that they want and  screaming  'I must have what he has' while stuffing their face with free sweets and stamping their little feet.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    I agree with you, but most of the arguments aren't rational.  Your common sense will most likely fall on deaf ears.
  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member

    Thanks, at least some sense!

    The only way to sustain a F2P is preorder packs, & cash shop, how can it be greed?

    They offer their game for free and have to rent/maintain the servers, pay the people working on updates, maybe people think money fall from trees? Everything should be free?

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

    Finally someone who gets it! And let me tell you, playing the beta today this game is worth it!

    First MMO i've ever played where the combat feels like it could be a single player game and hold up.

    image
  • OsmanthusOsmanthus Issaquah, WAPosts: 104Member
    Seems that some people need a reminder.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    I agree with you, but most of the arguments aren't rational.  Your common sense will most likely fall on deaf ears.

    indeed, a developer trying to explain why "free to play" doesn't mean you "play for free" is very irrational.

    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    its mostly people seem to feel "entitled" to get everything for free which boggles my mind as well.. as long as we aren't talking OP super items that can be bought I could care less what "exclusives" people can get with cash. When the game is free to download, free to play to max level, free to enjoy pretty much everything the game has to offer, how can you bitch you can't get to play a single race or get a certain horse without paying some money..

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • velmaxvelmax palm bay, FLPosts: 211Member
    I also agree, thats why Bioware is making so many restrictions for the F2P model they've spent tons of money on SWTOR (one of the most expensive mmos made) and they want that  money back.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,537Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by velmax
    I also agree, thats why Bioware is making so many restrictions for the F2P model they've spent tons of money on SWTOR (one of the most expensive mmos made) and they want that  money back.

    The problem with SWTOR is that making people feel restricted or even less powerful is not the smartest business model to attract new people.  I would've came back and spent quite a bit, but I felt nickled and dimed all over the place (pay to hide my helmet?  Dye my armor?  Display my title?  Display my last name?  Quickbar slots?  PvP Access?  Etc.), and ended up paying for nothing at all (aside from the initial digial collectors and the first few months).

    Neverwinter has a very good model that doesn't restrict much of anything, and most of it will be purchasable by just dedicating quite a bit of time to playing the game (as you can even earn the cash shop currency by completing daily quests or some such).  This is a model that I save my money to support, and I agree there should be more outlets for me to express that support.  Though there is also the image with potential customers, so they would have to implement it in increments.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by velmax
    I also agree, thats why Bioware is making so many restrictions for the F2P model they've spent tons of money on SWTOR (one of the most expensive mmos made) and they want that  money back.

     I agree with the OP, but swtor is a terrible example.

    If people complain about the pay 2 play model of LoTRO, Planetside2, AoC, Vanguard or similar type of games I will strongly agree with the OP.

    Swtor however some of the gripes are justifiable because EA is indeed taking it to extreme.

  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer RomePosts: 557Member Uncommon

    Yeah, makes you think how screwed up is this world, with these horrible people at PWE/Cryptic intending to make some money out of years of work.

     

    How dare they.

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common

    Agreed, very good OP.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    I will at the very least give people favourable deals when it comes to trading my astral diamonds for cash shop currency to promote people's desire to support the devs :) granted I won't be playing this as my main MMO but it will be my go to MMO when I got a group of friends and we feel like lerooooying it through player made dungeons :D.

    image
  • wolfhoundswolfhounds Sometown, PAPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by Osmanthus

    I think there are many people here who don't understand how much it costs to build an MMO.  Millions of dollars!  

    When people say a game company is being 'greedy' they are being naive.  Game companies do not make the big bucks.  Everyone in the industry could go into business solutions and make a lot more money if they wanted too.  Instead they choose to work longer hours at worse pay and their investors risk huge sums all merely because of their passion for games.

    This game is free to play, and people are still complaining.  It boggles the mind.  The people working long hours on it still have to pay rent, build a retirement and eat.  Somebody has to pay or they go to food stamp line.

    The glory of this game is that only people who have the excess cash and exuberance need to pay.  Yes, they may pay a lot more than some people think is worthy, but remember, they are carrying the rest of the community.   These people are glad to pay for because they think this is a worthwhile project.  Games are 'Art', and the Arts have always been funded by wealthy Patrons.

    So quit griping. Pay or don't pay, its up to you, but don't be rude by calling those that pay names or the creators of the game greedy please.

     

    Speaking of naive...

    Nobody should expect anything for free, but this 'woe is me, I'm in the gaming industry' picture you're trying to sell doesn't fly either.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    I'm not going to defend these companies. Many of them do questionable things time after time.

    Having said that the whole rant over the Founder issue is silly to me. That would be one of the few times I really don't see an issue with what the company is offering or that they should be tarred and feathered for it.

    ...and for some to refer to those that have bought it as somehow being idiots or simpleminded is beyond reproach.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    F2P doesnt mean play for free, it means subscription free option. In some way they will try to milk you, and to be honest that 15$/month seems reasonable over the amount you can spend on a cash shop in a game full of restrictions. I try to stay far away from cash shops, no better than a casino to be honest.
  • Mondo80Mondo80 Newington, CTPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    The game for the most part is ready to release (it can run on a PC) the founder packs are a way to gauge how many want to pay for the items or stress test the system.  Cryptic is working with very beloved IPs and they don't want to messup.

    image

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Onomas
    F2P doesnt mean play for free, it means subscription free option. In some way they will try to milk you, and to be honest that 15$/month seems reasonable over the amount you can spend on a cash shop in a game full of restrictions. I try to stay far away from cash shops, no better than a casino to be honest.

    Really depends on the game. Some are extremely reasonable while others will make your head explode if you figure up the dollar amounts to acquire everything or needed to compete in games that push their shops to affect this aspect.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Onomas
    F2P doesnt mean play for free, it means subscription free option. In some way they will try to milk you, and to be honest that 15$/month seems reasonable over the amount you can spend on a cash shop in a game full of restrictions. I try to stay far away from cash shops, no better than a casino to be honest.

    Really depends on the game. Some are extremely reasonable while others will make your head explode if you figure up the dollar amounts to acquire everything or needed to compete in games that push their shops to affect this aspect.

    from what i've seen in game and how the CS items will be aquired it won't be an issue.  Astral diamonds are their main currency which can be converted to Zen.  Rough astral diamonds which are rewarded often enough from quests, events etc can be converted to Astral diamonds.  On top of that the Auction house currency is Astral diamonds so by questing and getting excellent gear or crafting and selling you can get anything from the Cash shop.   When I was playing Astral diamonds were plentiful though I did have the $60 founders pack which included 125k AD (Astral Diamonds).   

    I've really enjoyed the game and in other games I hate doing dungeons etc, won't touch them never have in any game prior to this and Neverwinter has really hit the spot with their dungeon experiences with me so much that I've ended up purchasing the $200 pack as well so now I have 750k diamonds + 125k.  For me the game so far has been very fun which is tough to say these days.  

     

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Laross
    from what i've seen in game and how the CS items will be aquired it won't be an issue.  Astral diamonds are their main currency which can be converted to Zen.  Rough astral diamonds which are rewarded often enough from quests, events etc can be converted to Astral diamonds.  On top of that the Auction house currency is Astral diamonds so by questing and getting excellent gear or crafting and selling you can get anything from the Cash shop.   When I was playing Astral diamonds were plentiful though I did have the $60 founders pack which included 125k AD (Astral Diamonds).   

    I've really enjoyed the game and in other games I hate doing dungeons etc, won't touch them never have in any game prior to this and Neverwinter has really hit the spot with their dungeon experiences with me so much that I've ended up purchasing the $200 pack as well so now I have 750k diamonds + 125k.  For me the game so far has been very fun which is tough to say these days.  

     

    That is interesting. Hope it stays that way and thanks for the info.

    To be honest, I haven't played the game yet myself. Only watched some videos. The one TB had concerned me a little bit because the dungeon they ran seemed like a straight up zergfest and they easily steamrolled everything. Although to be fair he was playing with some veteran players and devs. Not to mention it is the first dungeon you encounter and since it is beta things may be tweaked in those areas. Wasn't a huge fan how loot drop rolls were handled either but again I wouldn't be surprised if that gets fleshed out more.

     

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Laross
    from what i've seen in game and how the CS items will be aquired it won't be an issue.  Astral diamonds are their main currency which can be converted to Zen.  Rough astral diamonds which are rewarded often enough from quests, events etc can be converted to Astral diamonds.  On top of that the Auction house currency is Astral diamonds so by questing and getting excellent gear or crafting and selling you can get anything from the Cash shop.   When I was playing Astral diamonds were plentiful though I did have the $60 founders pack which included 125k AD (Astral Diamonds).   

    I've really enjoyed the game and in other games I hate doing dungeons etc, won't touch them never have in any game prior to this and Neverwinter has really hit the spot with their dungeon experiences with me so much that I've ended up purchasing the $200 pack as well so now I have 750k diamonds + 125k.  For me the game so far has been very fun which is tough to say these days.  

     

    That is interesting. Hope it stays that way and thanks for the info.

    To be honest, I haven't played the game yet myself. Only watched some videos. The one TB had concerned me a little bit because the dungeon they ran seemed like a straight up zergfest and they easily steamrolled everything. Although to be fair he was playing with some veteran players and devs. Not to mention it is the first dungeon you encounter and since it is beta things may be tweaked in those areas. Wasn't a huge fan how loot drop rolls were handled either but again I wouldn't be surprised if that gets fleshed out more.

    You also gotta remember that with the new version of the Foundry players can create their own dungeons Hell if I read it right they can even create their own adventures spanning multiple dungeons or open areas with enemies who's stats (IE difficulty) you can tweak (so if the standard dungeons feel luke warm I only imagine it is a matter of time before someone puts in a Dark Souls level of difficulty adventure series XD).

     

    image
  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    You also gotta remember that with the new version of the Foundry players can create their own dungeons Hell if I read it right they can even create their own adventures spanning multiple dungeons or open areas with enemies who's stats (IE difficulty) you can tweak (so if the standard dungeons feel luke warm I only imagine it is a matter of time before someone puts in a Dark Souls level of difficulty adventure series XD).

     

    Yeah...that is what I'm hoping for. That The Foundry has the freedom for players to create some pretty interesting and challenging content. Well...that and players actually using it as such XD

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Dihoru

    You also gotta remember that with the new version of the Foundry players can create their own dungeons Hell if I read it right they can even create their own adventures spanning multiple dungeons or open areas with enemies who's stats (IE difficulty) you can tweak (so if the standard dungeons feel luke warm I only imagine it is a matter of time before someone puts in a Dark Souls level of difficulty adventure series XD).

     

    Yeah...that is what I'm hoping for. That The Foundry has the freedom for players to create some pretty interesting and challenging content. Well...that and players actually using it as such XD

    Oh I think there will be some NWN-style pleasure joints as well XD but if Star Trek's anything to go by there will also be good adventures out there to be had.

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  • HestiaHestia BadungPosts: 119Member
    Well, Perfect World Entertainment IS greedy especially in terms of Pay to Win. Just from my own previous experience playing their top running games, Perfect World International and Forsaken World.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Hestia
    Well, Perfect World Entertainment IS greedy especially in terms of Pay to Win. Just from my own previous experience playing their top running games, Perfect World International and Forsaken World.

    Pay to win = items in the item shop which are unobtainable in any other way than by putting money into the game, items which are better versions of top tier items, they don't have this.

    Free to play = everything in-game is obtainable through hard work (check).

     

    Logical conclusion: Another one that wants a free to play game give them everything on a silver platter.

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