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How do the founder packs hurt you?

Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

Why does it seem like theres a lot of people so incredibly butt hurt over the founder's packs? You don't have to buy it, I really don't get it.

Edit: Fixed a mispelling thanks to a concerned user.

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Comments

  • Big.Daddy.SamediBig.Daddy.Samedi Edmonton, ABPosts: 148Member Uncommon

    **decided against a stupid post**

     

    I think the main reason is that people feel that when a company does the "Founders Pack", especially at the prices cryptic is offering, that it somehow cheapens the game. It makes it feel like the company is being greedy. People just need to relax and if they don't feel it is worth it let it go. Consumers will vote with their wallets and decide what they want.

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member
     In short, it's $200 bucks for 5 day early access and access to a race. $200 bucks to play a free to play game. The stuff they estimate to be worth... $500 bucks or so. Yeah right. Kind of like on disc dlc and trying to prevent used game sales. It's a greedy move.
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Why does it seem like theres a lot of people so incredibley butt hurt over the founder's packs? You don't have to buy it, I really don't get it.

    Because they have the "me too, want nao" attitude that plagues this world nowadays.  Blame the people who told these kids when they were younger "everyone's a winner" and they all get a trophy.  Or little Timmy deserves an A because little Sally got 1 too.  That ********* mentality is why they say the things they do but you cant really blame them because its their mindset.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betakodo
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Why does it seem like theres a lot of people so incredibley butt hurt over the founder's packs? You don't have to buy it, I really don't get it.

    I'm guessing from the " incredibley ", the defense of the founder's pack, and the use of "butt hurt" that you haven't graduated from high school and never had a job before? It's the cost and principle. Yeah I guess it could be a typo, they happen. I probably have one somewhere in here. In short, it's $200 bucks for 5 day early access and access to a race. $200 bucks to play a free to play game. The stuff they estimate to be worth... $500 bucks or so. Yeah right. Kind of like on disc dlc and trying to prevent used game sales. It's a greedy move.

    I graduated high school a decade ago, thank you very much. I just don't get it I guess. No one is forcing you to buy it, you can still play the game if you don't.

    The only reason I can see is if people are jealous because they can't/don't want to afford it. Personally, I purchased the $60 pack because it seemed like a good enough deal to get some extra goodies come launch.

    Do i want some of the $200 pack stuff? Absolutely, but there's no reason to be offended by the price just because I don't want to pay it. Path of Exile was selling $1,000 packs and I don't recall seeing anyone bashing that model.

    image
  • DartmedDartmed AthensPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Why does it seem like theres a lot of people so incredibley butt hurt over the founder's packs? You don't have to buy it, I really don't get it.

     

    Because if people where not so eager to jump on all kind of hype trains then earth would be a better place … But then again who cares since we have all those beautiful on line worlds  image

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

    And for the record, if they were offering any significant exclusives such as a special Class or extra features unavailable without paying for the $200 pack. Then I would be against it myself.

    But as I understand it, even the Drow race isnt exclusive, just the particular backround of it.

    image
  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    First off let me say I did shell out the $200 and feel positive about it, however I have a lot of disposable income and generally buy every deal that comes along good and bad. 

    That being said, most of the people in my guild do not have that luxury, money is tight for most people out there and getting tighter every day. Yet most game developers continue to get more and more greedy. 

     

    I mean seriously the $200 founder pack is maybe worth $75, no way its worth $200 and even worse the claim PWI makes that it is actually worth $500+

     

    Oh and just so you know that statement is actionable if when the game releases, and the in game cash shop and valuations do not stand up to the value they claim, I STRONGLY urge a class action lawsuit for false advertising and deceptive business practices.

     

    Game developer greed is bad enough lately without all the lies and false advertising they continue to heap on us game after game after game. 

     

    Start making some examples out of some of these companies and you will start seeing a bit more honesty and accountability, in the marketing if not in the game itself.

     

    Now that being said this whole pay to beta test fiasco that has become the rule not the exception is getting really out of hand. Not only is it insane but its stupid as well. 

    Out of my group of friends we were able to bring in 3 people with buddy keys, 2 of those 3 bought the $60 pack within a few hours of playing the game.  We had another 20 or so guildies that wanted to check it out but could not get a key, so they went and played defiance instead and most of them ended up buying defiance when if they had been in neverwinter they might have bought that instead.

    But noooooo some genius decided cock blocking potential customers a good marketing decision at a time where 4 or 5 games are competing for pre-orders and market share. Oh and God I hope the CEO or CFO at PWI reads this and realizes how much money that decision cost them because I can just about promise it was in the millions. 

    So greed and stupidity... but I digress once again...

    The biggest slap to the face.. it is a FREE TO PLAY

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Some people say Free to Play though like its a not for profit organization. The game still has to make money, and front loading big packages like that to people who are big fans and willing to pay is a smart idea. Whether or not you feel its worth the money is your own opinion. And I just don't personally understand why it bothers people so bad if someone else wants to buy a $200 pre-launch pack.

    image
  • jedensuscgjedensuscg Kodiak, AKPosts: 209Member

    I think the issue is that a lot of players, who either can not afford to drop that kinf of money, or do not see a good value in it(in this case, its real iffy, as you dont get access to a race at all...only a unique costume with a special racial for a race everyone will get, the drow)

    Now, imagine these players have been following the game for months, signed up for beta on day one, have a thousand constructive posts on the official forums, have been spreading the word of the game to all their friends...and still has not recived a beta key for his devotion

    And some random guy with a butt wad of cash see the game, and a day later buys a founder pack and gets access to beta, and honestly could care less about the game but wants to try something new. 

    The big turn off to players is that more and more game developers are rewarding their faithful less, and the people with big wallets most.

     

    And this the entire reason the MMO market, frankly, fucking sucks right now.  The faithful are what make your game, and if you spurn them, they will tear you down.

    image

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member

    You could use the same argument to support pay to win.

    "Exclusive access to ‘Menzoberranzan Renegade’, a drow playable race like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do’Urden, complete with unique racial abilities and tattoo". Haven't been following races too closely, but it says exclusive and unique abilities. I plan on playing human anyways, but that's still pretty insulting.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/view/news/page/1/read/26659/Neverwinter-Beta-Weekends-and-Founders-Packs-Detailed.html

    It's also the whole early access thing. You know the server is ready 5 days before their open beta launch date. They simply just tacked on a 5 day delay for everyone else who didn't pay. If it's not wrong, then maybe every other f2p game maker should add a 5 day delay to their release dates and charge $200 bucks. It's not the norm, don't let it become the norm.

    If you ask me, people should boycott the Neverwinter cash shop because of this bull. Just for kicks. Ok, maybe for principle. Yeah, that sounds better. I know it's a for profit business. I'm sure they already took loads out of the game and put in planned inconveniences to push people towards buying their cash shop stuff.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon

    the ¨no one is forcing you to buy it¨ is already overrated. Companies are coming up with these greedy tactics because they know there are many people out there who will pay for them. And if people keep supporting those practices it will become a standard. You will soon see crappy games costing  a lot of money up front and nobody cant complain because its the standard. And so on.

    I think a $200 bucks pack should be a collectors edition, not a beta access..... and also include more stuff (including physical items) than what other CE offered. GW2 is a good example. Its CE costed less than 200 and had more valuable things than Neverwinters 200 dollar beta pack.

    If i dont buy it, it will not hurt me, but it will still hurt the game industry and eventually it will end affecting me as a consumer because i will have to stop playing games when this ridiculous practices become the standard in gaming.

    image
  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member

    Founder packs are a scam that's why. They basically allow companies to collect your money before delivering a product. And since every game is overhyped and then some no one even expects these companies to make all their promises anymore.

    Being a founder of an actual product you can touch and feel is a different story; whereas, you can get a refund if they fail to deliver exactly as promised. Virtual products are still this giant gray area where they can fullfill all they've said or just take a dump on you instead.

  • KaosLegionKaosLegion BrisPosts: 64Member

    I don't  mind so much for ongoing betas like Firefall and Forge, games with ongoing development to support (though all should have some form of ongoing dev). More so Minecraft really.

    But cash grabs for a couple of beta weekends for founders price seems more like a pre order than anything. And for $200 bucks is like b2p in f2p clothing. The lines are open to be blurred.

    All the same but, if I'm keen on a game I'll make up my own mind if it's worth it.

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 639Member Uncommon

    I think some are to blinded to the fact that some of the hate is not about the price or that they can not aford the to buy the founders pack, it is that it sends a message to developers that we gamers are all idiots who will through money at a product unseen, untested and unproven. More and more companies are now doing this and it is not doing anything to improve the quality of games.

    When a game launches, what I see then is people posting that we have to wait for them to fix the game, put in the content they promised before launch, yad yada yada. You get what you deserve, and if you preorder, buy these silly founders pack, and the game sucks, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

    In the end though, it is your money, feel free to waste it as you wish.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,617Member Uncommon
    I never played Drows anyway. So, it will limit people from playing the game thats about it. 

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 943Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Some people say Free to Play though like its a not for profit organization. The game still has to make money, and front loading big packages like that to people who are big fans and willing to pay is a smart idea. Whether or not you feel its worth the money is your own opinion. And I just don't personally understand why it bothers people so bad if someone else wants to buy a $200 pre-launch pack.

    lemme explain it this way...

     

    Say an orange has a true value of  25 cents.. 100% of the people can afford that orange at its true value.

     

    Now say someone buys up all those oranges and decides to resell them for say 50 cents.. now maybe 80% of the people can afford oranges.

     

    Then lets say the orange farm says well hell if people are willing to pay that guy 50 cents then maybe they will buy my next batch of oranges from me for 75 cents..  now only maybe 50% of the people can afford those oranges. 

     

    Sadly however it doesnt stop there because the farmer has now realized some people are willing to pay whatever he asks for his oranges so next harvest he figures hell lets try $1.50 for oranges.. at this point you have trimmed away all the normal people with normal income so maybe you only lose 10% and come down to 40% of the people.. 

    Well hot damn says the farmer, I'm selling less oranges but I'm making more money.. maybe we can push this a little further next harvest.. $3 for an orange only worth 25 cents.

    If those numbers work next comes $6.. so what if only 20% of the people out there can buy them you are still making more money that you were selling them to everyone at 25 cents, or even 30% of the people at $3...

     

    The point isI dont care how much money you have to toss at games, sooner or later the way this is going you are going to be in the percentage that is cut out of the oranges.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    the ¨no one is forcing you to buy it¨ is already overrated. Companies are coming up with these greedy tactics because they know there are many people out there who will pay for them. And if people keep supporting those practices it will become a standard. You will soon see crappy games costing  a lot of money up front and nobody cant complain because its the standard. And so on.

    I think a $200 bucks pack should be a collectors edition, not a beta access..... and also include more stuff (including physical items) than what other CE offered. GW2 is a good example. Its CE costed less than 200 and had more valuable things than Neverwinters 200 dollar beta pack.

    If i dont buy it, it will not hurt me, but it will still hurt the game industry and eventually it will end affecting me as a consumer because i will have to stop playing games when this ridiculous practices become the standard in gaming.

    Was about to reply but all I had to say was already said in this post.

    Basically we're bending backwards and giving them the licence to molest us.

    It's the wrong message, but I guess the world is spawning more rich idiots faster than they learn (the hard way).

  • KaosLegionKaosLegion BrisPosts: 64Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by rojo6934

    the ¨no one is forcing you to buy it¨ is already overrated. Companies are coming up with these greedy tactics because they know there are many people out there who will pay for them. And if people keep supporting those practices it will become a standard. You will soon see crappy games costing  a lot of money up front and nobody cant complain because its the standard. And so on.

    I think a $200 bucks pack should be a collectors edition, not a beta access..... and also include more stuff (including physical items) than what other CE offered. GW2 is a good example. Its CE costed less than 200 and had more valuable things than Neverwinters 200 dollar beta pack.

    If i dont buy it, it will not hurt me, but it will still hurt the game industry and eventually it will end affecting me as a consumer because i will have to stop playing games when this ridiculous practices become the standard in gaming.

    Was about to reply but all I had to say was already said in this post.

    Basically we're bending backwards and giving them the licence to molest us.

    It's the wrong message, but I guess the world is spawning more rich idiots faster than they learn (the hard way).

    How many people feel violated by The Warz I wonder....

  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934

     And if people keep supporting those practices it will become a standard.

    Please let me correct you...People WILL keep supporting those practices. It will never stop.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elfahiar
    Originally posted by rojo6934

     And if people keep supporting those practices it will become a standard.

    Please let me correct you...People ALREADY support those practices.

    And it has become a standard, more or less.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member

    Half of these posts make no sense.

    the game is F2P.  You either think the game is great and the founder stuff is a good value for you or you think it sucks/unsure and it would be better for you to wait to try it out.  I have spent $60 on other games.  I saw the livestream of this game and have no problem paying that for the extra stuff you get with it.   I wouldn't spend the $200, but that's me.  I have yet to read a valid adult argument as to why someone else shouldn't though.  A product is worth what is offered only if the buyer deems it acceptable.  The more I read some posts, the more I think these people have a communist approach to gaming.  Gaming is a business and if your're delivering a F2P game that is of AAA quality, then expect there to be things in it as an incentive to spend.

    What each person chooses to buy is up to them.  As long as the game isn't nickeling and diming you, it should be fine.   

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psiic

    First off let me say I did shell out the $200 and feel positive about it, however I have a lot of disposable income and generally buy every deal that comes along good and bad. 

    That being said, most of the people in my guild do not have that luxury, money is tight for most people out there and getting tighter every day. Yet most game developers continue to get more and more greedy. 

     

    I mean seriously the $200 founder pack is maybe worth $75, no way its worth $200 and even worse the claim PWI makes that it is actually worth $500+

     

    Oh and just so you know that statement is actionable if when the game releases, and the in game cash shop and valuations do not stand up to the value they claim, I STRONGLY urge a class action lawsuit for false advertising and deceptive business practices.

     

    Game developer greed is bad enough lately without all the lies and false advertising they continue to heap on us game after game after game. 

     

    Start making some examples out of some of these companies and you will start seeing a bit more honesty and accountability, in the marketing if not in the game itself.

     

    Now that being said this whole pay to beta test fiasco that has become the rule not the exception is getting really out of hand. Not only is it insane but its stupid as well. 

    Out of my group of friends we were able to bring in 3 people with buddy keys, 2 of those 3 bought the $60 pack within a few hours of playing the game.  We had another 20 or so guildies that wanted to check it out but could not get a key, so they went and played defiance instead and most of them ended up buying defiance when if they had been in neverwinter they might have bought that instead.

    But noooooo some genius decided cock blocking potential customers a good marketing decision at a time where 4 or 5 games are competing for pre-orders and market share. Oh and God I hope the CEO or CFO at PWI reads this and realizes how much money that decision cost them because I can just about promise it was in the millions. 

    So greed and stupidity... but I digress once again...

    The biggest slap to the face.. it is a FREE TO PLAY

    Would I pay $200 for any type of game? no. Do I think the industry has grown greedy? No, not to the extent that is presented around here. Games have been roughly the same price for a long long time, I'm 34 and I remember titles when I was a child selling for 70-80 on the SNES with the average being $50. If anything many types of games are becoming cheaper to access.

    Over the last decade everything has become more expensive, yet people grow poorer and poorer. In the gaming realm, they've opted for a different approach to inflation, optional... Because of the fact that many have grown poorer. They only live if we in mass can access their products.

    The cost of doing business has gone up globally. Tech salaries are also going up. This costs companies a lot. They recoup these costs through optional monetization methods, an example is focusing on those with disposable income. Another- cheap piece-meal transactions, mostly clothing or convenience items.

    I view this approach as a fair one, people only pay for what they want. I'd prefer that over skyrocketing box prices/monthly fees.

    My conclusion is that it's not greedy, it's intelligent.

     

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psiic
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Some people say Free to Play though like its a not for profit organization. The game still has to make money, and front loading big packages like that to people who are big fans and willing to pay is a smart idea. Whether or not you feel its worth the money is your own opinion. And I just don't personally understand why it bothers people so bad if someone else wants to buy a $200 pre-launch pack.

    lemme explain it this way...

     

    Say an orange has a true value of  25 cents.. 100% of the people can afford that orange at its true value.

     

    Now say someone buys up all those oranges and decides to resell them for say 50 cents.. now maybe 80% of the people can afford oranges.

     

    Then lets say the orange farm says well hell if people are willing to pay that guy 50 cents then maybe they will buy my next batch of oranges from me for 75 cents..  now only maybe 50% of the people can afford those oranges. 

     

    Sadly however it doesnt stop there because the farmer has now realized some people are willing to pay whatever he asks for his oranges so next harvest he figures hell lets try $1.50 for oranges.. at this point you have trimmed away all the normal people with normal income so maybe you only lose 10% and come down to 40% of the people.. 

    Well hot damn says the farmer, I'm selling less oranges but I'm making more money.. maybe we can push this a little further next harvest.. $3 for an orange only worth 25 cents.

    If those numbers work next comes $6.. so what if only 20% of the people out there can buy them you are still making more money that you were selling them to everyone at 25 cents, or even 30% of the people at $3...

     

    The point isI dont care how much money you have to toss at games, sooner or later the way this is going you are going to be in the percentage that is cut out of the oranges.

    We are talking about luxury extras here, not basics that everyone needs access to (fruit) which will be affected by normal economics likke supply and demand etc.

     A better analagy is a cinema that allows people to go in free, but to cover the cost of allow all those people going in free they are offerering leather seats at the back with services.  Now we have people going in to the cinema and watching the latest films for free but whining loudly that its not fair that they cant get services.  I would say for god sake enjoy the film you are getting for free and stoip looking over your shoulder at what other people have.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betakodo

    You could use the same argument to support pay to win.

    "Exclusive access to ‘Menzoberranzan Renegade’, a drow playable race like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do’Urden, complete with unique racial abilities and tattoo". Haven't been following races too closely, but it says exclusive and unique abilities. I plan on playing human anyways, but that's still pretty insulting.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/view/news/page/1/read/26659/Neverwinter-Beta-Weekends-and-Founders-Packs-Detailed.html

    It's also the whole early access thing. You know the server is ready 5 days before their open beta launch date. They simply just tacked on a 5 day delay for everyone else who didn't pay. If it's not wrong, then maybe every other f2p game maker should add a 5 day delay to their release dates and charge $200 bucks. It's not the norm, don't let it become the norm.

    If you ask me, people should boycott the Neverwinter cash shop because of this bull. Just for kicks. Ok, maybe for principle. Yeah, that sounds better. I know it's a for profit business. I'm sure they already took loads out of the game and put in planned inconveniences to push people towards buying their cash shop stuff.

    OMG you do realize every single MMO for the last 8+ years has offered some sort of early release incentive right?

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • XepherdXepherd ParisPosts: 103Member

    I already paid $60 for games that lasted 6-7 hours or less.

    I can pay a pack for a game I'm gonna play 200+ hours, no problem.

    Each to his own, I guess...

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