Good advise for posting is doing research. I did and the link is all that is said on the closing of Outspark. So not much to go on for research by all means if you find more feel free to post.
These games change hands a lot more often than you think. Aeria picked up IJJI's titles not that long ago. K2 Networks (Gamers1st) built an empire on buying up games in their entirety or just to localize for a region.
No Domino effect?? OK if that is not then I dont know what is??
I shutter to think just how often they do change hands, Kind of reminds me of a defaulted student loan or a bad debt go figure.
I shutter to keep out the wind and rain. Sometimes to adjust exposure.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I am pro the f2p model. It distresses me that Nexon shut down Mabinogi in Europe but they seem to be happy with those of us in Korean and the USA. Translate: happy with how much we spend on the game.
I blame the lack of communication between companies and the public they are selling their product to. There are to many middle men and the owners are to busy screwing around and not paying attention to their investments. This applies to pay as well as free.
Fiesta had potential and I was on their forums telling them over and over and over - until my posts got shut down and I was finally IP blocked - that their money model was faulty. Here is what they did wrong. By the way, Fiesta was a pay to win game and I do not have a problem with that. Their beginner zone was fun, not glitchy, fast paced, and relatively cheap to purchase weapons and armor in irl cash - shop item upgrades. But as you increased in level you had to spend more in real life cash to get better upgrades while the game got harder and more glitchy. This was scaled wrong. It should have gotten cheaper and cheaper the higher level you went in real life cash - shop item upgrades and more reliant on game money. It was a simple solution to fix their game yet they would not listen to me. Greed and the misconception that all gamers have lots of money to spend.
Note that f2p does not really mean free to play. It means Share to Play. Nothing is free. N o t h i ng.
Yes, f2p is popular because it costs more.....I'm not sure you've thought this post through.
Well what is funny is he/she is right in his thinking, just you actualy got it wrong as you are thinking popular with players since it cost more, when he/she is saying popular with companies for it higher potentional returrns (The fact that one player could spend sevral times the normal box/sub cost of a standard mmo in the cash shop, making up for the many non-paying players.). So f2p games are both popular with companies as they have a lower requirement to start playing (no box, or sub fee) with the fact of potentially having higher or equal returns on investments, and yet also popular with players for their ability to play the game free or at their own determined cost by buying items in the shop. So in truth you jumped to the conclusion of Gwapo speaking about iot being popular with players for it's higher cost, without actually thinking through the other people that it could be popular with an so actually making your own post guilty of what you tried to pin on Him/her.
Myself i hate p2w games in the f2p demographic of the mmo market, and yet cash shops to me (even in sub-games, or hybrid sub/b2p games) are fine as they allow you to further support the game/company while also getting somethign in game for your support. I just hope if we still see f2p games coming out at the same pace, or higher that they are much fewer in the p2w veriety, and much more the vanity/convience shop veriety.
I am pro the f2p model. It distresses me that Nexon shut down Mabinogi in Europe but they seem to be happy with those of us in Korean and the USA. Translate: happy with how much we spend on the game.
I blame the lack of communication between companies and the public they are selling their product to. There are to many middle men and the owners are to busy screwing around and not paying attention to their investments. This applies to pay as well as free.
Fiesta had potential and I was on their forums telling them over and over and over - until my posts got shut down and I was finally IP blocked - that their money model was faulty. Here is what they did wrong. By the way, Fiesta was a pay to win game and I do not have a problem with that. Their beginner zone was fun, not glitchy, fast paced, and relatively cheap to purchase weapons and armor in irl cash - shop item upgrades. But as you increased in level you had to spend more in real life cash to get better upgrades while the game got harder and more glitchy. This was scaled wrong. It should have gotten cheaper and cheaper the higher level you went in real life cash - shop item upgrades and more reliant on game money. It was a simple solution to fix their game yet they would not listen to me. Greed and the misconception that all gamers have lots of money to spend.
Note that f2p does not really mean free to play. It means Share to Play. Nothing is free. N o t h i ng.
Trust me Fiesta was not the only one and sadly you reflect a large number of gamers who expierience this kind of behavior from bad publishers.
The Scale was and is wrong. Thankfuly more and more players are not buying into this greed.
Share to play is a good point. I also like to think it as a extended demo.
Originally posted by GwapoJosh I hope they all shut down.. F2P costs more that B2P and P2P.. Why do you think it's so popular?
Yes, f2p is popular because it costs more.....I'm not sure you've thought this post through.
Well what is funny is he/she is right in his thinking, just you actualy got it wrong as you are thinking popular with players since it cost more, when he/she is saying popular with companies for it higher potentional returrns (The fact that one player could spend sevral times the normal box/sub cost of a standard mmo in the cash shop, making up for the many non-paying players.). So f2p games are both popular with companies as they have a lower requirement to start playing (no box, or sub fee) with the fact of potentially having higher or equal returns on investments, and yet also popular with players for their ability to play the game free or at their own determined cost by buying items in the shop. So in truth you jumped to the conclusion of Gwapo speaking about iot being popular with players for it's higher cost, without actually thinking through the other people that it could be popular with an so actually making your own post guilty of what you tried to pin on Him/her.
Myself i hate p2w games in the f2p demographic of the mmo market, and yet cash shops to me (even in sub-games, or hybrid sub/b2p games) are fine as they allow you to further support the game/company while also getting somethign in game for your support. I just hope if we still see f2p games coming out at the same pace, or higher that they are much fewer in the p2w veriety, and much more the vanity/convience shop veriety.
What you say here is 100 percent true. I feel more and more REAL gamers are taking notice of this. No big secret I hate the demographic of the mmo market just as well. That is why im holding my breath on Defiance and WildStar I hope they choose a B2P payment system over F2P I truly feel that if they use the F2P system it could mean a very short lived MMO for both of the games.
I also agree that yes you made a very good point about they hybrid model for games.
Originally posted by GwapoJosh I hope they all shut down.. F2P costs more that B2P and P2P.. Why do you think it's so popular?
You're not even close buddy.....I spent over 1k in 5 years of EQ...I've spent about 100 bucks on f2p games in the last 9 years.....I'm sure the majority of us have spent way more in b2p or p2p than we have in f2p.
Never heard of those MMOs. Maybe that's why they failed?
Face it, P2P fans, P2P is dying a quick death. F2P and B2P is the present and future.
It's just a cycle that will also die eventually. That's a natural market behavior.
Btw there are no P2P "fans" there are, however, P2W haters. I personally hate cash-shops because it doesn't make any sense in the kind of game I'm willing to play. Since there are zero MMORPGs that scratch that itch it doesn't bother me if F2P became the norm, more games for me to play (and pay nothing for) till that one game comes up (probably by an indie developer) which I will gladly pay a subscription fee to play.
Paying for small items online is something the teen generation is far more used to. This is one of the main factors that have brushed aside gamers insistence on a fair playing field.
What has happened is not unlike amateur and professional sport. Amateur sport was slowly pushed out by the money and the willingness of younger players not to play by the ethos of the old guys.
With gaming it is the players who pay though, you would think we would have more sense, but clearly not.
Well there's only so many players to support f2p games, and only a real small percentage actually buy anything... The market is saturated as all hell...Someone's gotta go down.
You know that the games didn't close down, right?
Yeah, no doubt the company shut down because they were making so much money from their games that they all just thought, well screw coming in to work on Monday, we're all so rich we just don't need to.
Shall we list the names of every game company that closed its doors that didnt make F2P games now to PROVE F2P is better?
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
f2p with a cs has been here longer than p2p. It has allready shown it's longevity. It is not going anywhere.
Is this a joke? Until a company actually proves with some financial statements that current cash shop based games can "shoulder the load" it isn't much more than a gimmick that will run it's course.
I would like to introduce you to a company called Nexon co ltd that had 1.2 billion dollars of revenue for 2 years running and had the second largest opening in history for a tech stock on the Japanese stock exchange...a company that dished out over 400 million dollars last year in acquisitions. Ndoors for over 170 million and a stake in Gloops for over 300 million.
Deal with reality...the reality that shows P2P companies stating its over and F2P is the future...hell even the makers of TESO is stating that may be their pay model.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Personally I'm a fan of the F2P and B2P models. The way I see it F2P games will bifurcate into a list of quick, cheap, easy development games that are desgined to "trick" you out of some cash before you get bored and quit them and games that are better thought out - with more time and effort spent in their development - in order to be good enough to maintain a population that likes the game well enough that they choose to support it by buying the newest, fanciest hats in the cash shop. Of course, there will always be those who say, "F2P?!?!? I'll nevar giv dem anee of mah moneez!" But I think that for well developed games there will be enough people (like myself) who are willing to spend a bit of cash on frivilous cosmetic items to support the game.
Personally I'm looking forward to both Neverwinter and Pathfinder (D&D fan, obviously) and if the game is fun (and the F2P monetization model isn't inconvenient) I will support them with my money.
people dont seem to realize that you cannot run a server based mmo without a source of income. the fact is simple. mmo servers use bandwidth. bandwidth cost money. without a steady income, a company would have to lose money each month paying for isp bandwidth. last i heard company's are not in buiness to go broke.
Good advise for posting is doing research. I did and the link is all that is said on the closing of Outspark. So not much to go on for research by all means if you find more feel free to post.
These games change hands a lot more often than you think. Aeria picked up IJJI's titles not that long ago. K2 Networks (Gamers1st) built an empire on buying up games in their entirety or just to localize for a region.
No Domino effect?? OK if that is not then I dont know what is??
I shutter to think just how often they do change hands, Kind of reminds me of a defaulted student loan or a bad debt go figure.
I shutter to keep out the wind and rain. Sometimes to adjust exposure.
It's rare to find a house with working shutters these days. Most are just decorative. I'd like to have functioning ones when we re-side the house.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
people dont seem to realize that you cannot run a server based mmo without a source of income. the fact is simple. mmo servers use bandwidth. bandwidth cost money. without a steady income, a company would have to lose money each month paying for isp bandwidth. last i heard company's are not in buiness to go broke.
FTP business models can generate more profit than monthly sub fee can if done right. But you'd know that if you've done any research.
Originally posted by GwapoJosh I hope they all shut down.. F2P costs more that B2P and P2P..
Only if you're idiot enough to actually spend money. I have never spent money in a F2P game and never will.
You probably go the smart route and buy expansions, correct?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by GwapoJosh I hope they all shut down.. F2P costs more that B2P and P2P.. Why do you think it's so popular?
Yes, f2p is popular because it costs more.....I'm not sure you've thought this post through.
I think he's saying that it's popular with companies. You know, players spend an average of $28 per month on F2P games, instead of the $15 per month sub. Except you of course, I'm sure. I meant everyone else that plays F2P.
Comments
I shutter to keep out the wind and rain. Sometimes to adjust exposure.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I am pro the f2p model. It distresses me that Nexon shut down Mabinogi in Europe but they seem to be happy with those of us in Korean and the USA. Translate: happy with how much we spend on the game.
I blame the lack of communication between companies and the public they are selling their product to. There are to many middle men and the owners are to busy screwing around and not paying attention to their investments. This applies to pay as well as free.
Fiesta had potential and I was on their forums telling them over and over and over - until my posts got shut down and I was finally IP blocked - that their money model was faulty. Here is what they did wrong. By the way, Fiesta was a pay to win game and I do not have a problem with that. Their beginner zone was fun, not glitchy, fast paced, and relatively cheap to purchase weapons and armor in irl cash - shop item upgrades. But as you increased in level you had to spend more in real life cash to get better upgrades while the game got harder and more glitchy. This was scaled wrong. It should have gotten cheaper and cheaper the higher level you went in real life cash - shop item upgrades and more reliant on game money. It was a simple solution to fix their game yet they would not listen to me. Greed and the misconception that all gamers have lots of money to spend.
Note that f2p does not really mean free to play. It means Share to Play. Nothing is free. N o t h i ng.
Yes, f2p is popular because it costs more.....I'm not sure you've thought this post through.
Well what is funny is he/she is right in his thinking, just you actualy got it wrong as you are thinking popular with players since it cost more, when he/she is saying popular with companies for it higher potentional returrns (The fact that one player could spend sevral times the normal box/sub cost of a standard mmo in the cash shop, making up for the many non-paying players.). So f2p games are both popular with companies as they have a lower requirement to start playing (no box, or sub fee) with the fact of potentially having higher or equal returns on investments, and yet also popular with players for their ability to play the game free or at their own determined cost by buying items in the shop. So in truth you jumped to the conclusion of Gwapo speaking about iot being popular with players for it's higher cost, without actually thinking through the other people that it could be popular with an so actually making your own post guilty of what you tried to pin on Him/her.
Myself i hate p2w games in the f2p demographic of the mmo market, and yet cash shops to me (even in sub-games, or hybrid sub/b2p games) are fine as they allow you to further support the game/company while also getting somethign in game for your support. I just hope if we still see f2p games coming out at the same pace, or higher that they are much fewer in the p2w veriety, and much more the vanity/convience shop veriety.
Trust me Fiesta was not the only one and sadly you reflect a large number of gamers who expierience this kind of behavior from bad publishers.
The Scale was and is wrong. Thankfuly more and more players are not buying into this greed.
Share to play is a good point. I also like to think it as a extended demo.
What you say here is 100 percent true. I feel more and more REAL gamers are taking notice of this. No big secret I hate the demographic of the mmo market just as well. That is why im holding my breath on Defiance and WildStar I hope they choose a B2P payment system over F2P I truly feel that if they use the F2P system it could mean a very short lived MMO for both of the games.
I also agree that yes you made a very good point about they hybrid model for games.
You're not even close buddy.....I spent over 1k in 5 years of EQ...I've spent about 100 bucks on f2p games in the last 9 years.....I'm sure the majority of us have spent way more in b2p or p2p than we have in f2p.
It's just a cycle that will also die eventually. That's a natural market behavior.
Btw there are no P2P "fans" there are, however, P2W haters. I personally hate cash-shops because it doesn't make any sense in the kind of game I'm willing to play. Since there are zero MMORPGs that scratch that itch it doesn't bother me if F2P became the norm, more games for me to play (and pay nothing for) till that one game comes up (probably by an indie developer) which I will gladly pay a subscription fee to play.
Cheers!
Paying for small items online is something the teen generation is far more used to. This is one of the main factors that have brushed aside gamers insistence on a fair playing field.
What has happened is not unlike amateur and professional sport. Amateur sport was slowly pushed out by the money and the willingness of younger players not to play by the ethos of the old guys.
With gaming it is the players who pay though, you would think we would have more sense, but clearly not.
Yeah, no doubt the company shut down because they were making so much money from their games that they all just thought, well screw coming in to work on Monday, we're all so rich we just don't need to.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
OMG ITS PROOF F2P IS BAD!
Shall we list the names of every game company that closed its doors that didnt make F2P games now to PROVE F2P is better?
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I would like to introduce you to a company called Nexon co ltd that had 1.2 billion dollars of revenue for 2 years running and had the second largest opening in history for a tech stock on the Japanese stock exchange...a company that dished out over 400 million dollars last year in acquisitions. Ndoors for over 170 million and a stake in Gloops for over 300 million.
Deal with reality...the reality that shows P2P companies stating its over and F2P is the future...hell even the makers of TESO is stating that may be their pay model.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Personally I'm a fan of the F2P and B2P models. The way I see it F2P games will bifurcate into a list of quick, cheap, easy development games that are desgined to "trick" you out of some cash before you get bored and quit them and games that are better thought out - with more time and effort spent in their development - in order to be good enough to maintain a population that likes the game well enough that they choose to support it by buying the newest, fanciest hats in the cash shop. Of course, there will always be those who say, "F2P?!?!? I'll nevar giv dem anee of mah moneez!" But I think that for well developed games there will be enough people (like myself) who are willing to spend a bit of cash on frivilous cosmetic items to support the game.
Personally I'm looking forward to both Neverwinter and Pathfinder (D&D fan, obviously) and if the game is fun (and the F2P monetization model isn't inconvenient) I will support them with my money.
people dont seem to realize that you cannot run a server based mmo without a source of income. the fact is simple. mmo servers use bandwidth. bandwidth cost money. without a steady income, a company would have to lose money each month paying for isp bandwidth. last i heard company's are not in buiness to go broke.
It's rare to find a house with working shutters these days. Most are just decorative. I'd like to have functioning ones when we re-side the house.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
FTP business models can generate more profit than monthly sub fee can if done right. But you'd know that if you've done any research.
You probably go the smart route and buy expansions, correct?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And no matter what you do, you'll always be second-rate behind those who do spend money.
I think he's saying that it's popular with companies. You know, players spend an average of $28 per month on F2P games, instead of the $15 per month sub. Except you of course, I'm sure. I meant everyone else that plays F2P.