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My issues with ESO

chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

This is not a flame thread it is an honest opinion...

 

The issues I see with the game are actually nothing the developer can actually do about. First off, Elderscrolls to me has always been about me playing the "hero" . When you have thousands of hero's you really don't feel much like a hero anymore. There is nothing the developer can do as it is now a multiplayer game. So I get that aspect, but that's the strike one for me.

Second the combat (might be too early to actually judge the final product) is very stale. I seen other threads bring this is up but when I personally watched the videos the first time, my thought was "where is the bow ? ok probably not finished yet, so ok is that all the melee combat?" point to this was, when I seen it, it seemed very blend more so then games like gw2. Don't take me wrong , gw2 has some "Decent" moves and animations etc, but this version just lost me.

Third the issue with the world in general, watching multiple videos now I see the same issues I had with SWTOR. Where is the swaying grass, moving trees or life for that matter? Again alpha/beta? it just seems like a rushed game.

Fourth why is it that every caster and every animation comes with what seems to me as anime sparkly end graphics. Flodding a screen with sparklies doesn't make it look better does it?

 

Ok , so the fans can hate post me now, Obviously many of you are looking foward to this , but for me I just don't get it, I see nothing elderscrolls here other then the lore. Sorry I just don't see it. So why post about it? Maybe to have an actual discussion without it becoming flame bait? I don't know but it seems the fans are a bit crazed, but then, I was a fan of SWTOR and those that told me  I was wrong about it where right, I mean don't take me wrong, I had a good 3 months in that game, but yeah after the main story was over there wasn't a game to be had. In this game, I just don't see what's all the big hubbub, if it is for the reason of being Elderscrolls, I don't even see a game here remotly close to any of the single player games.

Mind you that this is not single player, but alas I just don't see it. If maybe they added in the tech like WoW has with as you progress things change in your perspective (IE towns destroyed on my screen , on yours it's till fine etc) it might be a step in the right direction. As of now thou, having npcs cheer me or hate me for what i have done doesn't equal emmersion in my eyes. Anywho, that's my issues with ESO, there are fans obviously but I just don't get it. Seems like another MMO rehash in a new skin.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

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Comments

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by chaintm

    This is not a flame thread it is an honest opinion...

    The issues I see with the game are actually nothing the developer can actually do about. First off, Elderscrolls to me has always been about me playing the "hero" . When you have thousands of hero's you really don't feel much like a hero anymore. There is nothing the developer can do as it is now a multiplayer game. So I get that aspect, but that's the strike one for me.

    Second the combat (might be too early to actually judge the final product) is very stale. I seen other threads bring this is up but when I personally watched the videos the first time, my thought was "where is the bow ? ok probably not finished yet, so ok is that all the melee combat?" point to this was, when I seen it, it seemed very blend more so then games like gw2. Don't take me wrong , gw2 has some "Decent" moves and animations etc, but this version just lost me.

    Third the issue with the world in general, watching multiple videos now I see the same issues I had with SWTOR. Where is the swaying grass, moving trees or life for that matter? Again alpha/beta? it just seems like a rushed game.

    Fourth why is it that every caster and every animation comes with what seems to me as anime sparkly end graphics. Flodding a screen with sparklies doesn't make it look better does it?

    I say they offer subscribers their very own server to be the hero.  For $14.95 a month you can create your own instance and invite up to 2k players in PvP or PvE content.  While playing on your own server you could own the houses, keeps and castles.

    With private servers, ESO could create Modifiers to mimic popular TES mods.  Things such as first-person view only, the need for food and water, or appearence/race change.

    Although Cyrodiil should be the main source of PvP via AvA, ESO could offer official world PvP.  Players could choose to invade another country and spawn in hidden camps - thus replacing generic battlegrounds with organized world PvP.

    In addition they could make a more sandboxy 'exploration' verison of ESO.  Most of the NPC could be inactive allowing players to freely go in all areas and cities.  It would focus more on player interaction.

    Character progress should depend on the official game but letting us tweak the rules is also one of the pillars of TES.

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon
    I don't get the whole " I want to be the hero thing".

    This has been talked about before.. but if you need to be the center of the story and want a big single player, its all about me experience. Then you probably don't like mmos and are better suited for a single player game. Mmos are for ppl whho want to be apart of a community and enjoy content that requires team work withh other players.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • ShubawkssShubawkss Canton, GAPosts: 55Member
    Don't knock the game until you've tried it.
  • NixlNixl Ctown, VAPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Don't knock the game until you've tried it.

    While I understand where you are coming from, I do not agree.

    Games such as TOR would have benefited from fans questioning its direction. 

    Since TESO is in  alpha, I would argue that it has the most to gain from early feedback or debate. 

     

  • SarethorSarethor Hillsboro, ORPosts: 41Member

    It's a year before launch based on the available footage.  That means it is definitely too early to judge if combat is stale, or anything else for that matter, except the plans and vision communicated by the developers.  Everything is subject to change and many things will change.

     

    Also, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't define them as a "fan".  It might be that they're at least quasi-objective or simply have a different perspective.   Opinions are, by definition, subjective.

    The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.

    Regards,
    Sarethor

  • cagancagan new jersey, NJPosts: 281Member

    I am not touching that game with a 10 feet pole...

    First the developer is notorious for the buggy game releases. 1 year after the release I might try it  (when it goes free to play)

    Second there is always balancing issues in their games both in oblivion and skyrim magic was way weaker than melee or bow. Just build up resistances and magic hardly damages you not to mention the casters run out of mana. In melee...swing away for 1000+ damage crits. -I didn't play this game yet so I am just assuming based on my knowledge of both oblivion and skyrim.

     

    And both in skyrim and oblivion there is really NOTHING to do other than grind small side quests, or try another character. This will be just another skyrim you eill spend fun few weeks with friends and then wait for the next thing....then again I hope they prove me wrong and make a decent game/product rather than this cash cow to milk the gamers

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member

    I don't agree that being a hero in a personal story is a bad thing.

    If I see an npc traveling in skyrim I don't assume they're the dragonborn too, so why would I when seeing another player?

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chaintm

    Long post about my feelings

     Sounds good, not every game is made for everyone. I guess you will not be playing this one.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nixl
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Don't knock the game until you've tried it.

    While I understand where you are coming from, I do not agree.

    Games such as TOR would have benefited from fans questioning its direction. 

    Since TESO is in  alpha, I would argue that it has the most to gain from early feedback or debate. 

     

     I'am gonna shoot from the hip here and say thats what they are having a Beta for. They arent charging for it and seem they actually would like player feedback. Its kind of hard to complain about a game you havent played and only read about on forums.

  • VossikVossik yourmoms, ALPosts: 24Member
    Originally posted by cagan

    I am not touching that game with a 10 feet pole...

    First the developer is notorious for the buggy game releases. 1 year after the release I might try it  (when it goes free to play)

    Second there is always balancing issues in their games both in oblivion and skyrim magic was way weaker than melee or bow. Just build up resistances and magic hardly damages you not to mention the casters run out of mana. In melee...swing away for 1000+ damage crits. -I didn't play this game yet so I am just assuming based on my knowledge of both oblivion and skyrim.

     

    And both in skyrim and oblivion there is really NOTHING to do other than grind small side quests, or try another character. This will be just another skyrim you eill spend fun few weeks with friends and then wait for the next thing....then again I hope they prove me wrong and make a decent game/product rather than this cash cow to milk the gamers

    I'm not sure if you're trolling, so i'll take the chance on feeding.

    ...This game is not being made by Bethesda.

    image

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by Nixl
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Don't knock the game until you've tried it.

    While I understand where you are coming from, I do not agree.

    Games such as TOR would have benefited from fans questioning its direction. 

    Since TESO is in  alpha, I would argue that it has the most to gain from early feedback or debate. 

     

     I'am gonna shoot from the hip here and say thats what they are having a Beta for. They arent charging for it and seem they actually would like player feedback. Its kind of hard to complain about a game you havent played and only read about on forums.

    By the time Beta is out it is already too late to have much meaningful feedback. Sure some stuff can be tightened up, but the game is pretty much set in stone

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member

    There's been about 2 videos, of alpha footage, showing heavily limited content.

    The written details are just about as sparse.

     

    Yeah, too early for these gripe threads. And frankly it's posts like this that are actually curbing the flow of information these days; developers are so terrified to engage with communities now they have to hide their game for years before they even release a hint of information.

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    No doubt guys, I said it was an early build I was just curious what the big deal is about it? It's and early build things can change to points, but usually when we see these games and a beta is being offered it's close to being done or at least many of the core mechanics will remain as is with a few tweeks.

    I get what some are saying about "not being the hero" but in all elderscrolls you really are the hero, everything revolves around you. What you do actually effects the world not just npc opinions. For me at least, this is a huge part of elderscrolls. I can't remember any review or preview saying how any of the series lacked depth or more. Most would always say what they said about the previous installment.

    Deep rich world where your choices matter, free roaming (could be in the online version I think I heard a dev mention something about this) , details and finally fun combat (not all reviews combat has been up and down in the series) but the one thing everyone would probably agree on is the details in the game. IE dumb stuff like grass moving, wildlife, trees swaying etc.. while not really dumb we don't care about them till their missing and in MMO's I notice the details more then anything.

    Anyways, rambling on, I get what many of you say, I guess I am just trying to get my head around what is the big deal on this title other then the lore? I haven't seen/read anything that makes me think "WOW awsome idea" has anyone seen anything unique here? Again this is a question that is not to flame but to really ask " with the issues I talked about on the OP, what's the big issue with this game other then lore affiliation? Is that all it took ? A name like starwars?"  if that's the case ,wow, someone should make a simpson MMO, that show has been going now for what 24 years? ;)

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • LegereLegere CityOfPeoplePosts: 118Member Uncommon

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common
    Originally posted by Legere

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

    but that I WOULD buy :), don't think you read the thread.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • LegereLegere CityOfPeoplePosts: 118Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chaintm
    Originally posted by Legere

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

    but that I WOULD buy :), don't think you read the thread.

    dont get me wrong, im buying also.. but its not going to be some revolutionary mmorpg .. its skyrim with a bigger map and multiplayer. thats the aim. thats what we getting. thats what reviews on the alpha version is saying it is.

     

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common
    Originally posted by Legere
    Originally posted by chaintm
    Originally posted by Legere

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

    but that I WOULD buy :), don't think you read the thread.

    dont get me wrong, im buying also.. but its not going to be some revolutionary mmorpg .. its skyrim with a bigger map and multiplayer. thats the aim. thats what we getting. thats what reviews on the alpha version is saying it is.

     

    Well can you link that review or preview, I have yet to see one that even shows or discusses anything close to skyrim as far as depth, combat, details go. I mean I can semi live without being "the hero" but details, combat are huge for me. So far what I have seen it's not even close to skyrim, maybe you got a link to something that says different., Love to see it.

    edit: I should note, even was going to sign up for beta till I seen the questionaire asking for my first born, then I thought, "nah, I will keep him". (oh and that's a pun , being this is the internet i should say so.. that beta form was a bit crazy on requested info, to much for a beta in my eyes)

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by Legere
    Originally posted by chaintm
    Originally posted by Legere

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

    but that I WOULD buy :), don't think you read the thread.

    dont get me wrong, im buying also.. but its not going to be some revolutionary mmorpg .. its skyrim with a bigger map and multiplayer. thats the aim. thats what we getting. thats what reviews on the alpha version is saying it is.

     

    Sounds awesome to me.

    I hate the word innovation and revolution in the MMO industry. Those words have brought us garbage heaps like Warhammer Online, SWTOR and to a lesser extent GW2. (Which is an OKish game). I like developers who focus on actual fun stuff that works and just work on improving it.

    I can't help but think GW2 would have been a much more enjoyable game with a trinity, just as I think SWTOR could have had a better engine and much more time invested into the actual game had they not gone with that whole "fully voiced" crap.

  • LegereLegere CityOfPeoplePosts: 118Member Uncommon

    sure man, check it out

     

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Legere

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

    really? 90% skyrim would make it a mega hit

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


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  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    Thnx watching now, saving spot here for response ;0 be soon.

     

    ---------------------

    Just finished watching

    Wow this guy seems excited and everything he is talking about is what I wanted in an online version. hmmm looks like all the released info (prior this video are not doing the game justice thats for sure), but his information is correct (which hes seems very honest about) I will definitly switch and try the game. Thou I will still pass on beta, to much info wanted, however definitly am more interested now ! Thnx for the link!

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • LegereLegere CityOfPeoplePosts: 118Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuperNick
    Originally posted by Legere
    Originally posted by chaintm
    Originally posted by Legere

    given the timeframe that these guys have been working on eso, id say it would be 90% skyrim with multiplayer.

    dont expect too much.

    but that I WOULD buy :), don't think you read the thread.

    dont get me wrong, im buying also.. but its not going to be some revolutionary mmorpg .. its skyrim with a bigger map and multiplayer. thats the aim. thats what we getting. thats what reviews on the alpha version is saying it is.

     

    Sounds awesome to me.

    I hate the word innovation and revolution in the MMO industry. Those words have brought us garbage heaps like Warhammer Online, SWTOR and to a lesser extent GW2. (Which is an OKish game). I like developers who focus on actual fun stuff that works and just work on improving it.

    I can't help but think GW2 would have been a much more enjoyable game with a trinity, just as I think SWTOR could have had a better engine and much more time invested into the actual game had they not gone with that whole "fully voiced" crap.

    havent tried SWTOR yet but agree on your points re GW2.. though in saying that, gw2 was pretty damn sweet.

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member

    I think the problem that TESO has is the problem that War, AoC, SWTOR, TERA and GW2 had: the MMO genre is stagnating under a pile of games that do broadly the same things, without any evolution. We've been playing "the MMO formula" for the last decade; very little has changed. Yes, it's got smoother, it's easier to access, and it's got more content to it, but it's all broadly the same from game to game.

    If I can run an instance and get good gear in WoW, why would I switch to a game that lets me run an instance and get good gear?

    TERA and GW2 attempted to make this switch more paletable by altering the combat system, but it didn't work. Players still largely responded to the "come and play our game, where you can do the same things you've been doing in the other MMO you've been playing" with a resounding, "NO." That isn't to say they're bad games (they aren't), and is - as far as I'm concerned - and indication that someone, somewhere needs to move things along a bit. The fact that ArenaNet "dipped their toes" in to diversifying and/or moving away from the formula... is telling. They didn't go all the way however, and ended up banking on the established nonsense when really they should have done MORE to move away from it.

    So yeah... I think TESO's major problem is that it is the same MMO we've all played before. Beyond the shallow alterations that come with a change of setting, it is just WoW. And the altered combat system won't make it any more paletable, just like an alternative combat system didn't make GW2 and TERA more paletable.

    TESO's problem is the genre's problem: a totaly lack of bravery, creativity and diversity.

    And in a year... I will be back to say I told you so ^^

     

  • LegereLegere CityOfPeoplePosts: 118Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    I think the problem that TESO has is the problem that War, AoC, SWTOR, TERA and GW2 had: the MMO genre is stagnating under a pile of games that do broadly the same things, without any evolution. We've been playing "the MMO formula" for the last decade; very little has changed. Yes, it's got smoother, it's easier to access, and it's got more content to it, but it's all broadly the same from game to game.

    If I can run an instance and get good gear in WoW, why would I switch to a game that lets me run an instance and get good gear?

    TERA and GW2 attempted to make this switch more paletable by altering the combat system, but it didn't work. Players still largely responded to the "come and play our game, where you can do the same things you've been doing in the other MMO you've been playing" with a resounding, "NO." That isn't to say they're bad games (they aren't), and is - as far as I'm concerned - and indication that someone, somewhere needs to move things along a bit. The fact that ArenaNet "dipped their toes" in to diversifying and/or moving away from the formula... is telling. They didn't go all the way however, and ended up banking on the established nonsense when really they should have done MORE to move away from it.

    So yeah... I think TESO's major problem is that it is the same MMO we've all played before. Beyond the shallow alterations that come with a change of setting, it is just WoW. And the altered combat system won't make it any more paletable, just like an alternative combat system didn't make GW2 and TERA more paletable.

    TESO's problem is the genre's problem: a totaly lack of bravery, creativity and diversity.

    And in a year... I will be back to say I told you so ^^

     

    i think the old saying, dont fix it if it aint broken, holds very true to mmorpg's...  

    at the core, keep what we knows works well, and refine it and add some real sexy graphics.

    skyrim gave us a world with (imho) better graphics than any other rpg to date .. and their combat is OK - i like the first person style of it. 

    while playing through skyrim i couldnt help but think the game would be way more awesome if it had multiplayer and dungeons tailored to that - and i think thats exactly the aim of ESO

     

  • SuperNickSuperNick CambridgePosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    I think the problem that TESO has is the problem that War, AoC, SWTOR, TERA and GW2 had: the MMO genre is stagnating under a pile of games that do broadly the same things, without any evolution. We've been playing "the MMO formula" for the last decade; very little has changed. Yes, it's got smoother, it's easier to access, and it's got more content to it, but it's all broadly the same from game to game.

    If I can run an instance and get good gear in WoW, why would I switch to a game that lets me run an instance and get good gear?

    TERA and GW2 attempted to make this switch more paletable by altering the combat system, but it didn't work. Players still largely responded to the "come and play our game, where you can do the same things you've been doing in the other MMO you've been playing" with a resounding, "NO." That isn't to say they're bad games (they aren't), and is - as far as I'm concerned - and indication that someone, somewhere needs to move things along a bit. The fact that ArenaNet "dipped their toes" in to diversifying and/or moving away from the formula... is telling. They didn't go all the way however, and ended up banking on the established nonsense when really they should have done MORE to move away from it.

    So yeah... I think TESO's major problem is that it is the same MMO we've all played before. Beyond the shallow alterations that come with a change of setting, it is just WoW. And the altered combat system won't make it any more paletable, just like an alternative combat system didn't make GW2 and TERA more paletable.

    TESO's problem is the genre's problem: a totaly lack of bravery, creativity and diversity.

    And in a year... I will be back to say I told you so ^^

     

    This sounds a lot like genre burnout to me.

    Asking for revolutionary sweeping changes to the MMO genre is like asking for ID Software to radically innovate and change the FPS genre.. simply isn't gonna happen.

    The formulas have all been done, the systems have all been done and the ideas have all been tried. GW2's "no trinity" thing wasn't new, we had that back in SWG.

    What you see is what you get really.. I for one just want to see a solid game, with superior tried/tested systems that delivers great content and regular updates. I haven't seen an MMO deliver that for a long time hence why I still return to WoW and Rift periodically.

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