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Portalus already censoring away...

LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon

Well Portalus took over POTBS from SOE, and I hope they will do better then them and push the game forward. It won't be hard to accomplish that. I hope at least. But then they were suppose to migrate the servers , and people hoped that the game would be up the past weekend but every day the've announced that it's delayed even further etc. I then stated that I guessed that the game would probably not come up before this weekend. Most likely at the begining of the next week. I said I rather be a pessimist then a optimist by now, and be happily suprised if they get it out faster. Then a guy calling himself "Karetaker" responded:

"You ever put together an MMO? Neither have I, but I imagine there's a lot more to it than plug a server in and shazaam, everyone can connect and there's no issues. Be thankful you have a new company that has a thorough interest in getting this game back on it's feet. If they just threw it together and let us run amuck on their servers, they'd end up just like Sony did: out the door.
Give them a break. They're doing what they can, and they're keeping us NON-PAYING customers (at the moment) very well informed. Name another game where you had that kind of support.
Thought so".

So I wrote a reply to him on this that went like this:

"@Karetaker Well I can name several companies that have a extremly good contact with their playerbase. Guild Software Inc, the guys behind Vendetta Online speaks, like really speaks with their playerbase on a daily bases. The players are even part of how they develop the game, and can go in and test ideas before any1 else. And they are only 4 devs. Then we have a big company like CCP, the guys behind EVE. They even have: The Council of Stellar Management (CSM), and it's a player-elected council to represent the views of the players to CCP. And they also have a very close contact with their playerbase. I could go on. What Portalus are doing, is only each day letting us know it's delayed even further. Fine. But don't come here and say they are the saviors of the MMO-universe for doing so. It can't get any worse then it was in the hands of SOE, but Portalus must also prove that they can handle the game as well.
And also, Portalus ain't developing the game. They are TRANSFERING it now. A big freaking difference. The developing part will come later. And I don't have that big of a problem with it taking time. I just said that I see a pattern, and it will be delayed even more. It's quite easy to see. So, as I said, I rather be a pessimist then a optimist, and be suprised if they actually manage to launch it before or during this weekend".

And this they choose to censor. Was it that harmfull? So I took this up on their forums, and within minutes it got deleted as well. And I got a mail from Half-Hitch saying: "I didn't want that argument taking place on our public website". But it was OK for "Karetaker" to "attack" me, but not OK for me to respond to this? If they gonna censor minor shit like this from their website, and not be able to take any criticism, things doesn't look good for POTBS. At all...

But hope they can prove me wrong and let quite innocent responses like the one I made about what they are doing, stay. But as I said. They are not off to a good stuff with censoring any criticism against them.

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Comments

  • MukeMuke Member Posts: 2,460 Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Then we have a big company like CCP, the guys behind EVE. They even have: The Council of Stellar Management (CSM), and it's a player-elected council to represent the views of the players to CCP.

    Funny that you mention that CSM as it is a good thing, when everyone in EVE knows that it's just been created to take the tension out of 'rogue developers favoring certain entities ingame' and that it is less then democratic.

    Last part was that they do not have any valuable input, nor that the developers actually listen to their proposals other then answering with "we recognize the problems, but they are not on the roadplan to fix it anytime soon."

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAMember Posts: 2,083
    Seems like a problem a lot of companies share these days. Too bad censoring really just doesn't work on the internet.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Seems like a problem a lot of companies share these days. Too bad censoring really just doesn't work on the internet.

    Yeah, it sure saddens me that this seem to be the case. But I can understand censoring stuff like personal attacks, and someone calling developers liars etc. But not as harmless as my response.

    Originally posted by Muke
      Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Then we have a big company like CCP, the guys behind EVE. They even have: The Council of Stellar Management (CSM), and it's a player-elected council to represent the views of the players to CCP.

     

    Funny that you mention that CSM as it is a good thing, when everyone in EVE knows that it's just been created to take the tension out of 'rogue developers favoring certain entities ingame' and that it is less then democratic.

    Last part was that they do not have any valuable input, nor that the developers actually listen to their proposals other then answering with "we recognize the problems, but they are not on the roadplan to fix it anytime soon."

    At least it was a good thing when I played. And the idea behind it, and them letting them come to the fanfest etc. In the begining it sure seemed to work at least. Dunno how it is now. But while I played EVE, CCP had good contact with their playerbase.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon
    He's right it takes time. They have to develop and test a new front end for the game. Nothing could be done while Sony still had it. You're also wrong about the delays. From the first day they said they didn't know when it would be up. Instead of a timeline they have given a to do list.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember Posts: 22,788 Epic
    Their forums, their rules, they can censor anyone or anything they like. Which is why I quit posting on company sponsored forums years ago and spend my time here instead, a bit less heavyhanded.

    "Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007! 

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEMember Posts: 328 Uncommon

    Censorship usually implies the suppression of "public speech". There are no "public" message boards that I am aware of; they are all privately owned.

    The remaining folks (all three of them?) at Portalus are probably all very nice people, but they are in WAY over their heads. I have said as much on their forums, and the posts were not "censored". The current situation makes it sound like they have one guy who might know anything about Windows Server operating systems and any OS components (e.g. IIS) they may use for the game. Also, from their updates, it sounds like they upgraded operating systems on the servers. If they use IIS for session management or async communications (e.g. WCF), then they are going to have to work through the differences between IIS 6 (or maybe even IIS 5) and IIS 7. That's going to take time.

    It really is depressing to see POTBS come to this. I wish Portalus would just sell the source code to someone.  Their ship movement and combat is really top notch; the best I have seen in any game.

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    He's right it takes time. They have to develop and test a new front end for the game. Nothing could be done while Sony still had it. You're also wrong about the delays. From the first day they said they didn't know when it would be up. Instead of a timeline they have given a to do list.

    Well they did insinuate that it would be out at latest last monday the 4th. Like this statement: "Right now we are going to have to say that PotBS servers are unlikely to be up and running prior to Monday (Feb. 4th).  I want to say there’s a small chance we might be up a little before that but Hamled’s giving me the determined “it will be Monday” look.  I know that’s not what anyone wants to hear but we were originally given a possible 72 hour down time estimate and that’s looking like it is turning out to be accurate (so far)". And they've kept on giving peeps hope that a solution might be just around the corner. But it now seems I was right all along, and I was right when I said I rather be a pessimist then a optimist. Since they today said it won't even come up this weekend, just like I predicted. And that's what they've kept on announcing each day. Different reasons for it to be delayed even more. They prolly didn't like that I hit the needled on the head in this case and censored this "negativity" away. I think it was pityfull of them to censor it, cause it wasn't THAT harsh. I think most of us can agree on that. And as others here are writing, it doesn't look as good as I hoped with Portalus taking control.  :( Even though they are excellent at telling us each day about the delays. :P

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYMember Posts: 1,783 Uncommon

    as much as i wanted to get my POTBS on during the blizard i understand they're a new, small company and i'ma give them a break til it gets online.

     

    i hope a lot of new folks who maybe stayed away from it because of SOE decide to try it now.

     

    it's definitely not the standard carbon copy MMO.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

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  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEMember Posts: 328 Uncommon
    Originally posted by itchmon
    as much as i wanted to get my POTBS on during the blizard i understand they're a new, small company and i'ma give them a break til it gets online.   i hope a lot of new folks who maybe stayed away from it because of SOE decide to try it now.   it's definitely not the standard carbon copy MMO.

     

    I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't really make any sense. SOE provided login, subscription, and account support services. I'm sure SOE doesn't do that for free, so Portalus decided to part ways. Every part of POTBS after the login screen, and beyond Captain's Club, is Portalus. Portalus is the remainder of Flying Labs Software. They are responsible for all the content and changes to POTBS. This is NOT a new and different group of developers.

    So, anyone who stayed away (or left) because they didn't like some part of the game design or gameplay will still be facing the same developerment approach that created the current (albiet dying) environment that is POTBS.

    The most tragic part of the POTBS saga is that the people most resistant to attracting new players are the current players.

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Well, they got the game up and running again. That's nice. I then had alittle issue with making a french character on the EU server. I only had a lvl 1 pirate and a lvl 2 french character there before. So I deleted the french first, then my pirate. But could only make a pirate after that. And people said I will have to wait til next turn etc to change nations. Which sux cause I'm gonna play with 5 other guys. Crappy system imho. So I contacted the support to see if they could help a fellow sailor out. And 2 minutes after I sent the mail they got back to me. Freaking awesome response. And we mailed each other back and forth for 10 minutes, and hopefully they will solve it for me. But sense I thought they did wrong censoring me, I thought I also must say they did good in responding to my help mail. So I give them credit for that, and hope this momentum will keep on going for them.
  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEMember Posts: 328 Uncommon
    Yeah, it's good to see POTBS back in action.  I logged in to make sure all my accounts were transferred correctly and verified that my BSNs were still there.  I then uninstalled the client.  I hope to return to the high seas, someday, when there is something to do there.
  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon

    And it keeps on going on. Any posts that goes up questioning wtf Portalus are doing keeps being taken down. I posted this little post yesterday:

    "Communication dead?


    I think we all deserve some info on what is going on since the last failed attempt to open up burning notes for us. What happened? How much longer will it be delayed? What happened to us being able to make new accounts at the end of this week? Yeah, it's one more day left, but with the silent treament it doesn't look good. And delete this all you want, but deleting posts that need answers ain't the answer Portalus...".
     
    Nothing out of the ordinary. Just a simple post asking wtf is going on with everything. It's been over a month since the migration started and Portalus took over and new peeps can't even make a new account yet!!! And any post that questions them is taken away in a heartbeat. It's the worst kind of censoring I've ever seen in a game. They are digging their grave every passing day now. It's so sad to see. I'm afraid this ship has sunk. :(
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon

    I think it goes something like this:

    Are we there yet?

    No.

    Are we there yet?

    No.

     

    Are we there yet?

    No.

     

    Are we there yet?

    No.

     

    Are we there yet?

    No.

     

    Are we there yet?

    No.

     

    Are we there yet?

    No.

     

    Are we there yet?

    No! We'll tell you when we're there!

    *deleted*

    Asking for information they don't have and complaining when they don't give it is pointless. If they had fixed their datatbase errors you would know it. The problem is they're very much winging it because they didn't have full access to the data before Sony turned it over. I suspect Sony didn't make much of an effort to preserve the data intact either.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    I think it goes something like this: Are we there yet? No. Are we there yet? No.   Are we there yet? No.   Are we there yet? No.   Are we there yet? No.   Are we there yet? No.   Are we there yet? No.   Are we there yet? No! We'll tell you when we're there! *deleted* Asking for information they don't have and complaining when they don't give it is pointless. If they had fixed their datatbase errors you would know it. The problem is they're very much winging it because they didn't have full access to the data before Sony turned it over. I suspect Sony didn't make much of an effort to preserve the data intact either.

    I think it goes something like this:

    We are almost there.

    No.

    Any day now we are there.

    No.

    People ask: Are we there yet? *Deleted*

    We are there!!!

    No... Wait. We aren't. We be there soon.

    No.

    People ask: What is going on? *Deleted*

    They delete ANYTHING that makes them look like they aren't doing their job. Ofc they have information on what is going on, or what has happened. They could answer the peoples questions and be upright about it. But they choose to delete EVERYTHING, and say nothing. Hey, new accounts was suppose to be able to be made this week, but ofc it hasn't. And nothing from them on this matter either. It's gone from bad, to beyond bad in less then a month. It's funny to read their news page on their site. It was full of activity at start, and every1 being optimistic. Now, after the latest setback with the "fix" of burning notes, which they took up, and took down faster then any1 could say "CAPTAINS CLUB!!!", the "likes" has died out, and noone is writing anything positive. It is dead. I which they could be more open to their issues and leave it all there for any1 to answer it. But they don't. They delete it all faster then you can say "Bankrupt".

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    They delete ANYTHING that makes them look like they aren't doing their job.

     That makes it clear you have no idea what's involved in the process. If they were answering your posts, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. So the forum guy deletes the posts instead of bothering the people trying to fix the problem every five minuites. Why are you so worried? You're getting what you paid for.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    They delete ANYTHING that makes them look like they aren't doing their job.

     That makes it clear you have no idea what's involved in the process. If they were answering your posts, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. So the forum guy deletes the posts instead of bothering the people trying to fix the problem every five minuites. Why are you so worried? You're getting what you paid for.

    Answering their playerbase and keeping them informed IS their job. And they do that quite poor to say the least. It's not THAT hard to answer a post, or make a statement. Their statements usually are 5-6 sentences. It takes a normal human being maybe 1-2 minutes to think of a response and then write it. Your being way to much of a fanboi to defend this kind of censuring, and lack of proffesionalism from them.

    Why even delete it then? Forum guy could let it be there and write himself, that they are "knee deep in work and can't make even a short statement". Which ofc is BS. But at least that would be a life sign. But they've gone from keeping everyone informed, to keeping everyone in dark. You think that is good policy. I think it's extremly unproffesional. These guys make SV, makers of Mortal Online, seem like the most open and talkative developers ever.

    Worried? Well, they are taking a good MMO and are slowly strangling it. Soon they won't have enough people bothering with their ignorance and will have left them for some other MMO, and PoTBS will have sunk to the bottom and get cancelled. That's the worst case scenario.

    And I which I could have paid for something, but you can't. Since they failed opening up the store for more then a few minutes before closing it again, and letting us know it will be down "several days". And then. After that. Not a pip... And still. New players can't even make a account!!! 1 month after they took over the game. It's total crap.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    They delete ANYTHING that makes them look like they aren't doing their job.

     That makes it clear you have no idea what's involved in the process. If they were answering your posts, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. So the forum guy deletes the posts instead of bothering the people trying to fix the problem every five minuites. Why are you so worried? You're getting what you paid for.

    Answering their playerbase and keeping them informed IS their job. And they do that quite poor to say the least. It's not THAT hard to answer a post, or make a statement. Their statements usually are 5-6 sentences. It takes a normal human being maybe 1-2 minutes to think of a response and then write it. Your being way to much of a fanboi to defend this kind of censuring, and lack of proffesionalism from them.

    Why even delete it then? Forum guy could let it be there and write himself, that they are "knee deep in work and can't make even a short statement". Which ofc is BS. But at least that would be a life sign. But they've gone from keeping everyone informed, to keeping everyone in dark. You think that is good policy. I think it's extremly unproffesional. These guys make SV, makers of Mortal Online, seem like the most open and talkative developers ever.

    Worried? Well, they are taking a good MMO and are slowly strangling it. Soon they won't have enough people bothering with their ignorance and will have left them for some other MMO, and PoTBS will have sunk to the bottom and get cancelled. That's the worst case scenario.

    And I which I could have paid for something, but you can't. Since they failed opening up the store for more then a few minutes before closing it again, and letting us know it will be down "several days". And then. After that. Not a pip...

     I believe they have other concerns than holding your hand while you wait. They told you. They'll tell you what they know when they know it. Don't clog up their forums with useless posts.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    They delete ANYTHING that makes them look like they aren't doing their job.

     That makes it clear you have no idea what's involved in the process. If they were answering your posts, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. So the forum guy deletes the posts instead of bothering the people trying to fix the problem every five minuites. Why are you so worried? You're getting what you paid for.

    Answering their playerbase and keeping them informed IS their job. And they do that quite poor to say the least. It's not THAT hard to answer a post, or make a statement. Their statements usually are 5-6 sentences. It takes a normal human being maybe 1-2 minutes to think of a response and then write it. Your being way to much of a fanboi to defend this kind of censuring, and lack of proffesionalism from them.

    Why even delete it then? Forum guy could let it be there and write himself, that they are "knee deep in work and can't make even a short statement". Which ofc is BS. But at least that would be a life sign. But they've gone from keeping everyone informed, to keeping everyone in dark. You think that is good policy. I think it's extremly unproffesional. These guys make SV, makers of Mortal Online, seem like the most open and talkative developers ever.

    Worried? Well, they are taking a good MMO and are slowly strangling it. Soon they won't have enough people bothering with their ignorance and will have left them for some other MMO, and PoTBS will have sunk to the bottom and get cancelled. That's the worst case scenario.

    And I which I could have paid for something, but you can't. Since they failed opening up the store for more then a few minutes before closing it again, and letting us know it will be down "several days". And then. After that. Not a pip...

     I believe they have other concerns than holding your hand while you have a hissy fit. They told you. They'll tell you what they know when they know it. Don't clog up their forums with useless posts.

    Noone needs anyone holding any hand. People wanna know wtf is going on with the new accounts, the migration of old accounts etc. They haven't said jack sh*t about this. New people were hoping they could make accounts this weekend cause thats what they hinted might happen. Instead they got their hopes cruched, and not a word from Portalus why they can't do it yet. You can put on your blindfolders and ignore it all you want. But the problems remain, and people are concerned. Only that when they raise their concerns on their forum. Everything gets deleted. Thank GOD for other forums like mmorpg, where people can find out wtf is going on. Cause if you go to their site. Everything seems to be just fine and dandy. When actually, it's the opposite.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon
    Cultivate patience. It's a virtue.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Cultivate patience. It's a virtue.

    You remind me of the band that kept playing when Titanic was going under...

  • iuerasiueras Mount Ida, ARMember Posts: 1

    Even right now is a good example of how over their head they are. On the Portalus site is says "The majority of the maintenance work has been completed on the BurningSea.com databases. They are currently undergoing a consistency verification, which may take another hour.". That message has been up for about 5 hours now (as of my last edit here, starting from when I first looked and that news was already up when I did), and the site is still down.

     

    Doesn't exactly engender confidence when they can't seem to do a simple website maintenance without some kind of screwup. Not to mention prioritizing a restructuring of the forums over allowing people to make new accounts or actually give them money. As of this writing there is STILL no way to buy anything from them, or make a new account. Or even recover a password for an existing one. All VERY basic functions necessary to the operation of an MMO business. But hey, the forums have been rearranged. Maybe that'll help. :rolleyes:

     

    I just dunno at this point. I will keep playing, cause it is the best pirate/age of sail mmo out period. I sincerely hope portalus gets this going and going right, I really do. It's just... I dunno. Things like this don't really make me confident that the game will still be around in a few months, you know?

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Cultivate patience. It's a virtue.

    You remind me of the band that kept playing when Titanic was going under...

     As opposed to panicking, jumping in the freezing water, and drowning sooner? Or maybe they should have forced the women and children into the sea and take the lifeboats?

    When there is nothing you can do, do nothing.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Lahuzer
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Cultivate patience. It's a virtue.

    You remind me of the band that kept playing when Titanic was going under...

     As opposed to panicking, jumping in the freezing water, and drowning sooner? Or maybe they should have forced the women and children into the sea and take the lifeboats?

    When there is nothing you can do, do nothing.

    If you didn't get that analogy with you defending Portalus lack of communication with it's playerbase, and their approach to handle it, then I can't help ya.

    Back to topic. While other companies, like for instance AV (makers of Darkfall Unholy Wars), or SV (the small DEV-crew behind Mortal Online), leave almost every critique that people have about their game, cause they, as many other developers, know that they can learn something from it. Portalus do the opposite. They try to hide it under the carpet, and make it seem like their ain't no problem. They should show some balls like other companies and listen to critique, and respond to it. You are just as blind and delusional as them if you think this is a good way to handle their playerbase concern. I can understand that they censor or take away personal attacks on them. But not questions like the once I and others has brought up. Censoring is NEVER the way to go in those cases.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAMember Posts: 5,386 Uncommon

    You ever even been on the Darkfall or Mortal Online forums?

    They keep people fully informed with the latest lies. You can't believe a word they say. Their censorship is also rampant, fan based, and troll infested. They're the worst examples of forum moderation I can think of. You might as well be reading Pravda.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • LahuzerLahuzer BorMember Posts: 747 Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    You ever even been on the Darkfall or Mortal Online forums? They keep people fully informed with the latest lies. You can't believe a word they say. Their censorship is also rampant, fan based, and troll infested. They're the worst examples of forum moderation I can think of. You might as well be reading Pravda.

    No. I just named them cause I have never been there... DUH!!! But it seems you have no clue though. Cause if you go in and read for instance the changes in the patchnotes from both companies, you clearly can see that they listen to the critique that their players have given them. For instance. In one of MOs latest patches the patchnotes even read "None-player made shields should now no longer impact your swing. (there you go Bronzen)". Bronzen being the one that kept bringing that up on the forums. And they communicate all the time with their players. Right now Sebastian is talking with the players about people who put TC towers near cities. Here is that discussion http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/sv-remove-tower-at-guardzones.85409/page-3 And I can't go into the changes AV is doing since they are still under NDA, but they keep tweaking the game little by little from the feedback from it's players. And the feedback has been anything but nice to say the least. So come back when Portalus shows some balls and communicate and not censor like them. How can you even compare them and try to misscredit what they are doing compared to the none communication and censoring of ANY topic that questions what Portalus is doing on PoTBS forum, shows that your a lost cause and so far gone into Fanboiland that you can't see what everyone outside Fanboiland can. So ride around there on a unicorn, and smell the flowers, and watch some rainbows. Just don't come crying when your little dream ends.

     

    Edit. It's funny that you try to call those forums fanbased, when anyone that reads this can clearly see that your the very definition of a fanboi...

    And the fact remains. These companies and others as I also stated, answers players concern, and don't censor things like the stuff I and others brought up on PoTBS forum. What we've taken up is innocent if you compare to the crazy shit that peeps throw at AV and SV that STAYS.

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