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  • ShiotcrockShiotcrock ddddddddddPosts: 87Member
    Yeah the Booze and Drugs is Camelot Unchained =)  I don't drink but I'll snort Camelot Unchained
  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by EvvNizzled

    My biggest concern is that they lean too heavily on the RvR side.. even a great game like DAoC had a fair amount of PvE in it. 

    WoW ruined the PvE experience with the gear treadmill.  Every now and then Mythic threw in some new gear that made you re work your template, but this wasn't every 4-6 months.. it was at most every expansion.  Some expansions were bigger than others and required more re tooling, but overall it wasn't a struggle, and even your old gear was still usable.  Templates were never just abandoned, they were re worked.

    This system is ok!  Players aren't scared to put in the effort for items as long as they know that item will be useful long term.  I don't mind clearing an open world dungeon with my guild to get a good healing mace for our cleric and a sweet breastplate for the warrior.. this will make us stronger as a group. 

    Hell even in UO you had to kill monsters to get those really good vanquishing weapons (unless you found another player using one  of course :D ).. what I am getting at is that PvE is as necessary to a MMO as PvP is, but you just need to find that great balance like DAoC initially had.

    If you make a quake style MMO people aren't going to pay to play that, you need there to be something they become invested in.

    Couldn't agree more. While a lot of people lament DAoC's pve, i LOVED it!!

    I played from beta and even in the classic i loved the pve, in fact it was imo better then SI although i'd concede TOAwas a lot better.

    People seem to miss this point completely, the VAST MAJORITY of DAoC players rarely went into full RvR. Many of us played PvE mainly and levelled-up building our characters for the eventual glory of our realm.

    I played DAoC for 8+ years and loved every minute of it, but the best times I had were dungeon crawling with new and old friends through the Coruscating Mines and venturing into new zones such as Sheeroe Hills (saying "Hi" to Rory on the hill on the way in became a superstitious must-do for players on my server, even on the way through to Cuuldrach (sp?) en-masse we'd stop to say hi :)

    Also, not everyone hated ToA, a lot of playes herald it as DAoC's version of the NGE but it really wasn't. Without the ToA expansion the pve players, aka the vast majority of DAoC players, would probably have become bored eventually.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • EvvNizzledEvvNizzled Saskatoon, SKPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by EvvNizzled

    My biggest concern is that they lean too heavily on the RvR side.. even a great game like DAoC had a fair amount of PvE in it. 

    WoW ruined the PvE experience with the gear treadmill.  Every now and then Mythic threw in some new gear that made you re work your template, but this wasn't every 4-6 months.. it was at most every expansion.  Some expansions were bigger than others and required more re tooling, but overall it wasn't a struggle, and even your old gear was still usable.  Templates were never just abandoned, they were re worked.

    This system is ok!  Players aren't scared to put in the effort for items as long as they know that item will be useful long term.  I don't mind clearing an open world dungeon with my guild to get a good healing mace for our cleric and a sweet breastplate for the warrior.. this will make us stronger as a group. 

    Hell even in UO you had to kill monsters to get those really good vanquishing weapons (unless you found another player using one  of course :D ).. what I am getting at is that PvE is as necessary to a MMO as PvP is, but you just need to find that great balance like DAoC initially had.

    If you make a quake style MMO people aren't going to pay to play that, you need there to be something they become invested in.

    Couldn't agree more. While a lot of people lament DAoC's pve, i LOVED it!!

    I played from beta and even in the classic i loved the pve, in fact it was imo better then SI although i'd concede TOAwas a lot better.

    People seem to miss this point completely, the VAST MAJORITY of DAoC players rarely went into full RvR. Many of us played PvE mainly and levelled-up building our characters for the eventual glory of our realm.

    I played DAoC for 8+ years and loved every minute of it, but the best times I had were dungeon crawling with new and old friends through the Coruscating Mines and venturing into new zones such as Sheeroe Hills (saying "Hi" to Rory on the hill on the way in became a superstitious must-do for players on my server, even on the way through to Cuuldrach (sp?) en-masse we'd stop to say hi :)

    Also, not everyone hated ToA, a lot of playes herald it as DAoC's version of the NGE but it really wasn't. Without the ToA expansion the pve players, aka the vast majority of DAoC players, would probably have become bored eventually.

     

    I agree.. I will wait to pass judgement as I haven't even seen the model yet, and I am speaking from pure ignorance about this new game, but I can't see a game that doesn't offer a fulfulling alternative to PvP being successful in the pay to play format.  But again, I can't wait to be proven wrong.

    Let's get one thing straight here, I am about as PvPer as they come.  I was a Dread Lord in UO, that game was the mother of PvP and I was a master at it.  I pvped all through DAoC beta, I still remember the organized events the Devs had us run to test things out, level restricted PvP groups meeting in a zone to duke it out.  I played Mordred for years, if you say you were a PvPer in DAOC and didn't play Mord then I call you a dirty, dirty liar. :)

    But even on Mordred I found the PVE to be a lot of fun, and this is coming from a guy that had to get Cloudsong on two different toons, one of the most camped and hardest to get artifact encounters on the shard.  DAoC did a great job of balancing the PvE and PvP components, I feel like if you completely strip one away you are balancing the scales to heavily in one direction.

    Let's break it down to black and white, I started in UO when I was 14, I am now 29.  I was a griefer beyond griefing in my old days.. anyway I could find (both legal and illegal) to ruin the game for other players I would do it.  As I got to my DAoC days I had matured a bit and could see the bigger picture.  This game was the type of game that attracted and KEPT a quality player base.

    To me, a model where you focus only on the PvP will attract a good playerbase, but it won't keep it, only the bad ones.  14 year old EvvNizzled would love that game... 29 year old wants something more balanced.  We have seen a lot of great "PvP" MMORPG's rise and fall for making this mistake.

    My two cents.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    I used to RP on the Co-op server...this game probably wouldn't be for me then would it?

    image
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Varians
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    A lot of these old school dev's remind me of the classic 30 year old who still goes to frat parties because he doesn't want to let go of his youth.  People just put up with the creepy old guy only because he brings booze or drugs.

     

    With these dev's it's like they're all trying relive their past glories, when what the industry really needs is innovation.  DAoC was great... ten years ago.  If all you want to do is rebuild stuff using the same basic blueprints, then you're really not much of a designer or developr.  You're just a construction worker.

    I disagree that on the construction worker thing. A developer is what the title implies. He takes a thing that works and develops it further. He is not neccesarily an inventor. Its like saying "OMG, so you are still gonna take an airplane from the US to EU, cmon be more innovative"

    I honestly don't think that developers should use their time re-inventing the weel. But I do think they should optimize the weels and the engine of that car. So using same basic blueprints in my world is not a bad thing. Improving on them, that is the key.

    Also as Mark stated this will not be a sequal to DAoC, and thereby not a Copy-paste.

     

    People aren't clamoring for new ways to travel the air.  They are clamoring for new MMO paradigms.

    You make me like charity

  • fanboyzfanboyz fukyou ville, HIPosts: 1Member

    Im cautiously optimistic. I would be more interested if not for the kickstarter. I dunno but I don't like kickstarter anything seems like a scam.

    No kickstart money from me but if you put out a good game I will buy it an sub for sure.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member

    Well Mark it is interesting tos ee you more voval. Been a while like WAR beta since I have seen much of that from you.

    Interested in the multi tiered sub and also plans for crafting. Please nothing like EQ2..... Please.

    Think more like UO.

     

    I will say the no instanced pvp zones will be a welcome change to me at least.

    As for graphics when you say they will not be top end due to open area and large scale pvp are we talking Shadowbane or Pac Man?

  • cd3925cd3925 Spokane, WAPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by EvvNizzled

    My biggest concern is that they lean too heavily on the RvR side.. even a great game like DAoC had a fair amount of PvE in it. 

    WoW ruined the PvE experience with the gear treadmill.  Every now and then Mythic threw in some new gear that made you re work your template, but this wasn't every 4-6 months.. it was at most every expansion.  Some expansions were bigger than others and required more re tooling, but overall it wasn't a struggle, and even your old gear was still usable.  Templates were never just abandoned, they were re worked.

    This system is ok!  Players aren't scared to put in the effort for items as long as they know that item will be useful long term.  I don't mind clearing an open world dungeon with my guild to get a good healing mace for our cleric and a sweet breastplate for the warrior.. this will make us stronger as a group. 

    Hell even in UO you had to kill monsters to get those really good vanquishing weapons (unless you found another player using one  of course :D ).. what I am getting at is that PvE is as necessary to a MMO as PvP is, but you just need to find that great balance like DAoC initially had.

    If you make a quake style MMO people aren't going to pay to play that, you need there to be something they become invested in.

    Couldn't agree more. While a lot of people lament DAoC's pve, i LOVED it!!

    I played from beta and even in the classic i loved the pve, in fact it was imo better then SI although i'd concede TOAwas a lot better.

    People seem to miss this point completely, the VAST MAJORITY of DAoC players rarely went into full RvR. Many of us played PvE mainly and levelled-up building our characters for the eventual glory of our realm.

    I played DAoC for 8+ years and loved every minute of it, but the best times I had were dungeon crawling with new and old friends through the Coruscating Mines and venturing into new zones such as Sheeroe Hills (saying "Hi" to Rory on the hill on the way in became a superstitious must-do for players on my server, even on the way through to Cuuldrach (sp?) en-masse we'd stop to say hi :)

    Also, not everyone hated ToA, a lot of playes herald it as DAoC's version of the NGE but it really wasn't. Without the ToA expansion the pve players, aka the vast majority of DAoC players, would probably have become bored eventually.

    I agree. I was very much into RvR but still loved DAoC  PvE. I loved ToA!! I dont get why people hate it so much. Would the haters be happier if they added a new level cap instead??? I'd rather put my effort in new gear rather than more lvl's and then get new gear.

     

  • MethiosMethios Brandywine, MDPosts: 157Member
    After WAR I am shocked Mark will post on open forums like this and I give him props for that. I will def give the game a shot since I like ideas behind it and I loved Dark Age of Camelot and WARs PVP to me was a blast at the time.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Cd
    Players issues with toa was you had to pve to get the gear. If the same quality of gear was available through rvr or crafting, people would have been less hostile. Really stupid move to gate gear behind pve when over half your players ate pvpers. The other thing that toa and catacombs brought was instancing, one of daoc great strengths was its zero instancing stance.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,980Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Notice how as soon as big money got involved DAoC went to shit? And WAR was shit from the start, due to EA?

    Yeah, Kickstarter is the only way this type of game would get made. Publishers ruin everything, and force games to become clones of WoW. 

     

    Besides, it sounds like this won't just be vanilla DAoC, but something different entirely

     

    I'd rather have interesting indie MMOs than play soulless WoW clones ever again. There's a reason that games like Eve and Darkfall grew over time, and WoW clones like LotRO, AoC, Rift, and SWTOR died. 

    Agreed, it most defintely won't be DAOC 2, other than in IP and the borrowing of one core mechanic of that title, that being the 3 faction RVR combat system.

    Which is fine if all you enjoyed from the original DAOC, but in my case I preferred the PVP found in the FFA server and the challenge of leveling up the various classes in an enviroment where death could be around any corner.

    It will succeed with its niche, but won't satisfy the fans looking for a full fledged MMORPG successor to the original.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • mistmakermistmaker viennaPosts: 232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Notice how as soon as big money got involved DAoC went to shit? And WAR was shit from the start, due to EA?

    Yeah, Kickstarter is the only way this type of game would get made. Publishers ruin everything, and force games to become clones of WoW. 

     

    Besides, it sounds like this won't just be vanilla DAoC, but something different entirely. 

     

    I'd rather have interesting indie MMOs than play soulless WoW clones ever again. There's a reason that games like Eve and Darkfall grew over time, and WoW clones like LotRO, AoC, Rift, and SWTOR died. 

    sorry but AoC isnt a WoW clone by far not

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It wasn't.

    It is now. It's a raidgrinder.
  • mistmakermistmaker viennaPosts: 232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It wasn't.

    It is now. It's a raidgrinder.

    totally different gameplay. i had real fun with AoC action combat and open world pvp, but i didnt like WoW combat. 

     

    Rift is very similar to wow but not aoc. and wow didnt invent raids so why should aoc be a clone? 

     

     

  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat SP, MOPosts: 312Member
    This isn't a game for me (I love PvE). But I will spread the word about it to those I know who are interested in this type of game.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Because its geared around the same thing at endgame. Sure the combats different. But its a game focussed on raiders since Morrison took over. Forts STILL don't work. But there's a shedload of raid content continually being developed for the game.

    To me wow clone = sat in cities queueing to go instances and Aoc certainly fits in that category.
  • mistmakermistmaker viennaPosts: 232Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    Because its geared around the same thing at endgame. Sure the combats different. But its a game focussed on raiders since Morrison took over. Forts STILL don't work. But there's a shedload of raid content continually being developed for the game.To me wow clone = sat in cities queueing to go instances and Aoc certainly fits in that category.


     
    the word clone is what i didnt like. similarities doesnt make it a clone and especally not a wow clone. wow wasnt the first raid game.

    and because combat is something you do 80 percent of the game, when this part is totally different, its a totally different game experience.

    i never sat in cities waiting for a raid. i did open world pvp in keshatta.

    no, you cant really compare wow with aoc, not just because both have endgame raids...

  • MightyPitMightyPit StuttgartPosts: 89Member
    What was then the first raid game if it wasn't wow? And I mean raid = Dungeon with a defined group size to go in.

    MMO's played so far:
    UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
    Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MightyPit
    What was then the first raid game if it wasn't wow? And I mean raid = Dungeon with a defined group size to go in.

    I'm not sure about the first raid game.

    In DAOC we took huge raids to kill the dragons and also in Darkness Falls at the very bottom on Midgard/Guinevere. We'd have 50-100+ people at times. We also raiding for our relics as well. We all weren't grouped up together, but we had us in groups and you could see in guild and alliance chats what was going on.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Originally posted by MightyPit
    What was then the first raid game if it wasn't wow? And I mean raid = Dungeon with a defined group size to go in.

    Obviously it was Everquest, your asinine definition of raid notwithstanding.

  • glenn24glenn24 Sellersville, PAPosts: 3Member
    Since the talk of this game has grown these past few weeks, my wife and I have gone over some of our fabulous times at DAoC.  It truly was a blast in all aspects.  The community, the RvR, the battles for DF, the mini battlegrounds.  We had fried ourselves with Everquest and all the frustrations of corpse runs and exp loss.  Nothing like losing a level after hours of struggling to achieve that level.  Then along comes DAoC and it was an incredible journey over the few years played it.  We await this game with much anticipation and hope it has the same awesome refreshing dynamic to it that DAoC had for us in those days.
  • MightyPitMightyPit StuttgartPosts: 89Member
    In EQ1 there were raids before 2004? Ok I see. It was introduced with "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" then? Well, one year before wow goes live, so you have your point. 

    MMO's played so far:
    UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
    Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by MightyPit
    In EQ1 there were raids before 2004? Ok I see. It was introduced with "Lost Dungeons of Norrath" then? Well, one year before wow goes live, so you have your point. 

    There were "raids" before then.  They were just in the form of open-world dragons, usually, and with very few, if any, mechanics.  Tanks could usually just hold agro with "/beg" dur to the dragons using the guard threat/ai.  

    You make me like charity

  • NegativeJoeNegativeJoe hluboka nad vltavouPosts: 177Member Common


    Originally posted by Chief021
    I'm not sure what to think about this one... the kickstarter program is a bit of a turn off for me as well.  However I love that fact it's going to include "old school" elements as indicated by the new teaser.

    kickstarter does make me think its going to be subpar technically, sort of like a diploma from wvu isn't really the same thing as a real college.

    another bright idea that won't pan out IMO, but being that daoc is my favorite game of all time they will get money out of me and many others.

    ::::26:: ::::26:: ::::26::

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