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[Column] General: I Failed... Now What?

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,649MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

The issue of whether or not failure is something that should be included in an MMO is today's hot topic of discussion The Devil's Advocate. No matter what side of the issue you fall on, you'll want to read this piece and then hash it out in the comments.

What this basically means is that, if a boss in a raid run through the Raid Finder feature trounces your behind, you get stronger, with the hope that your increased capabilities will allow you to trounce the boss within 9 more tries. After the 9th boss death, you no longer get incrementally stronger.

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: I Failed... Now What?

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    Groups actually wipe in raid finder?
  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    Raid Finder... ?

     

    Christ almighty..

     

    DO we even want to PLAY mmos anymore? or are we all so lazy and disconnected that we just want this game to just happen on our screen.

    MMOS in 10 years =  Quest-doer, Auto crafter, insta port to any blade of grass, auto max char.

    Why do things, when the game will do things for me..

     

     

     

    Sigh

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Ypsilanti, MIPosts: 1,270Member
    This is why games like Wizardry Online ( as bad as they may be made ) are still a breath of fresh air compared to most recent MMORPGs. God forbid players want some kind of challenge in a game.
  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    I can totally see a raid leader in WoW explaining to everyone,

     

    "Ok so we need to autowipe on this boss 3 times to keep moving".

     

    Which bosses and how often you need to wipe on them to maximize time efficiency will become standardized in the strats for the raid. Instead of explaining to the group the strategy for not wiping, it will be explaining the autowipe strategy for not having to think.

    I do not like this.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Format C: ENTER
  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,558Member Uncommon
    They cant really be considering a 50 percent buff after a few wipes....My old WoW guild has to be really pissed lol.

    There are all kinds of things wrong with this idea. I cant say im suprised considering the direction WoW has been going after tbc.

    So people that don't care for this "everyone gets a trophy" bs have the craptastic ffa pvp games and wizardry....awesome.
  • moguy2moguy2 Saint Peters, MOPosts: 337Member
    There are services where you pay them and they get you the honor, the gear, the anything in game you want. As long as you are not a failure in real life you can be an awesome guy in game!  Skip doing anything in the game yourself PAY some one to do it for you /chuckle.
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    That is really sad, it will be wildly popular.
  • HedeonHedeon GraestedPosts: 954Member Uncommon
    I dont know how WoW raids are but I could imagine a raid leader saying okay stack close....we gonna wipe 9 times asap - 50% sounds like a huge buff, could be faster to wipe and get the buff then kill the boss
  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    "Failure is only the beginning... ." (another meme!). Good topic! 

    Here's a v good quote: Mark Twain - "Good judgement is the result of experience and experience the result of bad judgement."

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Sounds great. Most serious raiders raid on Normal or Hardcore, so I do not see any issue with giving the semi-casuals a little help to complete the content they are interested in.
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon

    I think this is a horrible idea.

     

    ..But if there gona do it, Put in a 10 minute cooldown between stacks.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • AmsaiAmsai Montgomery, ALPosts: 88Member Uncommon

    WTF?.....

    For Christ's sake Blizzard, no wonder everyone on this site thinks sandbox and FFA FULL LOOT PvP are the only wat to go. With this information I kind of dont blame them.

     

    Ill play Devils Advocate to the above real quick though. Have any of you noticed that the quality of gamer has gone down in the last few years? I recently tried doing raids with a new guild  for a newish game, and for one dungeon it was 2 straight weeks of abysmal fail. I knew what was going on and I knew who all was dicking it up. I tried to be gentle and used constructive criticism, but it was like talking to a wall (fyi, Im not even that bad ass of a player imo). I dont know if its a lack of skill due to newr games babysitting, or social media and TV destractions, or if they just dont give a shit enough to put in siginifcant effort.

    All I know is that after that I left for another guild and it was pretty much the same thing. Thats not to say there werent any good players, but when half the raid team has to carry the other half, its pretty bad. That leaves me with 2 options, go play single player games so I dont have to put up with the lazy/stupid/uncommited, or form a group of only highly skilled players which makes me an elitest asshole. But in social games like this its hard for me to turn someone away, then again I never had too in the old days. If I did it was because of drama (easy to kick out drama queens) and not becuase of skill.

    Which I cant believe Im saying this but almost makes me understand having such a system in place. I want to play MMOs, I want to play with friends, I dont want to have them leave or have to ditch them because they suck. God Im just so disgusted with the whole thing.....

    OK just gonna have to wait and see on upcomming games. And there is always Pathfinder Online!

  • FonclFoncl UppsalaPosts: 197Member
    A game where people don't fail is a game without challenge. A game without challenge is a game I don't want to play. The problem is that people in general tend to take the path of least resistance so the most dumbed down game wins the mainstream crowd.
  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member
    Makes Hello Kitty Online look like hard core bloodsport from hell.

    Let's internet

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by Foncl
    A game where people don't fail is a game without challenge. A game without challenge is a game I don't want to play. The problem is that people in general tend to take the path of least resistance so the most dumbed down game wins the mainstream crowd.

    Its like a game of Musical chairs, except there are more chairs than players.

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member

    Raid wipe buffs: Because uber 1337ness is paid for, not earned.

     

     

    Say hello to your new raid mates

     

     

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • RoyalPhunkRoyalPhunk Vancouver, BCPosts: 174Member
    Lol Gamers these days suck so hard.
  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,939Member Uncommon

    So instead of death penalty, it's death reward?

     

    Ya know, I bet they'll love it.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • dragonbranddragonbrand Long Beach, CAPosts: 412Member Uncommon
    Good column. I like the proposals to help teach skills. Karen's column was enlightening as well.

    Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.

    Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
    Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amsai

    WTF?.....

    For Christ's sake Blizzard, no wonder everyone on this site thinks sandbox and FFA FULL LOOT PvP are the only wat to go. With this information I kind of dont blame them.

     

    Ill play Devils Advocate to the above real quick though. Have any of you noticed that the quality of gamer has gone down in the last few years? I recently tried doing raids with a new guild  for a newish game, and for one dungeon it was 2 straight weeks of abysmal fail. I knew what was going on and I knew who all was dicking it up. I tried to be gentle and used constructive criticism, but it was like talking to a wall (fyi, Im not even that bad ass of a player imo). I dont know if its a lack of skill due to newr games babysitting, or social media and TV destractions, or if they just dont give a shit enough to put in siginifcant effort.

    All I know is that after that I left for another guild and it was pretty much the same thing. Thats not to say there werent any good players, but when half the raid team has to carry the other half, its pretty bad. That leaves me with 2 options, go play single player games so I dont have to put up with the lazy/stupid/uncommited, or form a group of only highly skilled players which makes me an elitest asshole. But in social games like this its hard for me to turn someone away, then again I never had too in the old days. If I did it was because of drama (easy to kick out drama queens) and not becuase of skill.

    Which I cant believe Im saying this but almost makes me understand having such a system in place. I want to play MMOs, I want to play with friends, I dont want to have them leave or have to ditch them because they suck. God Im just so disgusted with the whole thing.....

    OK just gonna have to wait and see on upcomming games. And there is always Pathfinder Online!

    Well funny thing with the human brain is that is u dont use it you dont get smarter and people playing games for the last 7 years or so have had use no thinking power at all and now its even less thought required in games so it doesnt surprise me gamer quality is going down hill. Bring back the older style of games where they were challenging and require thinking process will improve gamers substancuialy :P

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    WoW has long been about rewarding players for spending enough time, even if they're awful at the game.  This just makes it official.

    Still, it's an interesting solution to the problem that if you design a raid to require coordination and randomly match players together, you're necessarily making a group that isn't terribly coordinated for an area that requires it.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    So instead of death penalty, it's death reward?

     

    Ya know, I bet they'll love it.

     

    Then combine this with GW2's anti-griefing and auto-grouping policy, and god knows where we'll end. 

  • neosapienceneosapience Reno, NVPosts: 164Member
    This actually outlines on of the biggest problem with MMOs: play time = player strength.

    If people fail an encounter, they simply blame everyone's lack of gear and wait for the next group. I can't tell you how many bosses I've 'defeated' (without breaking a sweat) just because I was with a group of well geared people.

    The idea of making you stronger every time you are 'defeated' only plays along those lines - if you spend enough time playing the game, you can eventually beat any encounter.
  • UldahUldah Palma de MallorcaPosts: 162Member

    IMO.

    The only way to get better is with experience.

    When you fail you experience what you did wrong, and come up with new ideas .

    Dumbing down something becouse you "failed" to much, is plain stupid and brings up a breed of players we have now days.

    Nothin better than defeating or figuring out how to defeat a hard adversary , in any game MMO or not.

    Beating it becouse the game feel sorry for your lack of evolution,i dont think is in any way a good idea.

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